| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
09 Jul 2004 10:00:32 AM |
| Object: |
Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
Genesis 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 27 and 1/2: And man re-created himself and the creatures of the
field, the fowl of the air, and the fish in the waters into a more suitable
image.
==============================================
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the Environment Agency says.
In a report on the latest stage of 20 years of research on Friday, it said
that in a survey of 1,500 fish at 50 locations, one-third of the males
showed female characteristics.
The agency which monitors environmental pollution said the sex changes were
a result of the fish being exposed to treated sewage which still contained
hormones produced naturally by women or as a result of them taking the
contraceptive pill.
"There is sufficient evidence of harm to fish caused by sewage effluent that
action needs to be taken now to find out how to control this," Andrew
Skinner, director of environmental protection at the agency, said in a
statement.
"We need to find out what is the best and most cost-effective way to remove
these chemicals from sewage," he added.
It named the offending natural hormones as oestradiol and oestrone, and the
synthetic culprit as ethinyloestradiol.
It said the findings had serious implication for future fish populations
because anything more than a moderate change in a fish's sexual organs made
it more difficult to reproduce.
The Environment Agency noted that while the phenomenon was being seen
worldwide, Britain had the most comprehensive data on it.
.
|
|
| User: "Dont Clayton And Then Drive!" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
09 Jul 2004 07:37:42 PM |
|
|
<tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kqyHc.871$rn5.464@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the Environment Agency
says.
In related news, Springfeild actor Troy McClure moves to London.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "John Norris" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
09 Jul 2004 02:03:51 PM |
|
|
<tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<kqyHc.871$rn5.464@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>...
Genesis 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 27 and 1/2: And man re-created himself and the creatures of the
field, the fowl of the air, and the fish in the waters into a more suitable
image.
==============================================
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the Environment Agency says.
In a report on the latest stage of 20 years of research on Friday, it said
that in a survey of 1,500 fish at 50 locations, one-third of the males
showed female characteristics.
The agency which monitors environmental pollution said the sex changes were
a result of the fish being exposed to treated sewage which still contained
hormones produced naturally by women or as a result of them taking the
contraceptive pill.
"There is sufficient evidence of harm to fish caused by sewage effluent that
action needs to be taken now to find out how to control this," Andrew
Skinner, director of environmental protection at the agency, said in a
statement.
"We need to find out what is the best and most cost-effective way to remove
these chemicals from sewage," he added.
It named the offending natural hormones as oestradiol and oestrone, and the
synthetic culprit as ethinyloestradiol.
It said the findings had serious implication for future fish populations
because anything more than a moderate change in a fish's sexual organs made
it more difficult to reproduce.
The Environment Agency noted that while the phenomenon was being seen
worldwide, Britain had the most comprehensive data on it.
I wonder, since the hormones made it past the sewage treatment plants
and stay intact in the rivers, that means they are in the intake water
used by cities. Can the hormones survive the water treatment plants
used by city water systems? Does that mean everyone is being treated
by the hormones and women getting X multiple doses?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
09 Jul 2004 01:46:16 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:00:32 +0000, toc wrote:
Genesis 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 27 and 1/2: And man re-created himself and the creatures of the
field, the fowl of the air, and the fish in the waters into a more suitable
image.
==============================================
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the Environment Agency says.
In a report on the latest stage of 20 years of research on Friday, it said
that in a survey of 1,500 fish at 50 locations, one-third of the males
showed female characteristics.
The agency which monitors environmental pollution said the sex changes were
a result of the fish being exposed to treated sewage which still contained
hormones produced naturally by women or as a result of them taking the
contraceptive pill.
"There is sufficient evidence of harm to fish caused by sewage effluent that
action needs to be taken now to find out how to control this," Andrew
Skinner, director of environmental protection at the agency, said in a
statement.
"We need to find out what is the best and most cost-effective way to remove
these chemicals from sewage," he added.
It named the offending natural hormones as oestradiol and oestrone, and the
synthetic culprit as ethinyloestradiol.
It said the findings had serious implication for future fish populations
because anything more than a moderate change in a fish's sexual organs made
it more difficult to reproduce.
The Environment Agency noted that while the phenomenon was being seen
worldwide, Britain had the most comprehensive data on it.
Everything trumps "God."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "LP" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
09 Jul 2004 03:13:13 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:00:32 GMT, <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Genesis 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 27 and 1/2: And man re-created himself and the creatures of the
field, the fowl of the air, and the fish in the waters into a more suitable
image.
==============================================
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the Environment Agency says.
In a report on the latest stage of 20 years of research on Friday, it said
that in a survey of 1,500 fish at 50 locations, one-third of the males
showed female characteristics.
I wonder how they know this is something new. They don't mention how
they know that the fish from 100 years ago did not naturally show this
same characteristic.
The agency which monitors environmental pollution said the sex changes were
a result of the fish being exposed to treated sewage which still contained
hormones produced naturally by women or as a result of them taking the
contraceptive pill.
"There is sufficient evidence of harm to fish caused by sewage effluent that
action needs to be taken now to find out how to control this," Andrew
Skinner, director of environmental protection at the agency, said in a
statement.
"We need to find out what is the best and most cost-effective way to remove
these chemicals from sewage," he added.
It named the offending natural hormones as oestradiol and oestrone, and the
synthetic culprit as ethinyloestradiol.
It said the findings had serious implication for future fish populations
because anything more than a moderate change in a fish's sexual organs made
it more difficult to reproduce.
The Environment Agency noted that while the phenomenon was being seen
worldwide, Britain had the most comprehensive data on it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robin" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
09 Jul 2004 06:20:19 PM |
|
|
"LP" <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rjute0ho5npnln0880o78jquugd0iimiuv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:00:32 GMT, <tock@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Genesis 27: So God created man in his own image, in the
image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 27 and 1/2: And man re-created himself and the
creatures of the
field, the fowl of the air, and the fish in the waters
into a more suitable
image.
==============================================
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to
sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the
Environment Agency says.
In a report on the latest stage of 20 years of research
on Friday, it said
that in a survey of 1,500 fish at 50 locations, one-third
of the males
showed female characteristics.
I wonder how they know this is something new. They don't
mention how
they know that the fish from 100 years ago did not
naturally show this
same characteristic.
I would think that scientists and naturalists have been
examing and disecting animals, insects and fish and
documenting their findings since long before 1904.
The agency which monitors environmental pollution said
the sex changes were
a result of the fish being exposed to treated sewage
which still contained
hormones produced naturally by women or as a result of
them taking the
contraceptive pill.
"There is sufficient evidence of harm to fish caused by
sewage effluent that
action needs to be taken now to find out how to control
this," Andrew
Skinner, director of environmental protection at the
agency, said in a
statement.
"We need to find out what is the best and most
cost-effective way to remove
these chemicals from sewage," he added.
It named the offending natural hormones as oestradiol and
oestrone, and the
synthetic culprit as ethinyloestradiol.
It said the findings had serious implication for future
fish populations
because anything more than a moderate change in a fish's
sexual organs made
it more difficult to reproduce.
The Environment Agency noted that while the phenomenon
was being seen
worldwide, Britain had the most comprehensive data on it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "LP" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 06:01:06 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:20:19 GMT, "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com>
wrote:
"LP" <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rjute0ho5npnln0880o78jquugd0iimiuv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:00:32 GMT, <tock@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Genesis 27: So God created man in his own image, in the
image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 27 and 1/2: And man re-created himself and the
creatures of the
field, the fowl of the air, and the fish in the waters
into a more suitable
image.
==============================================
Sewage turning British fish female
1 hour, 5 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - British fish are changing sex due to
sewage in rivers
that contains large amounts of female hormones, the
Environment Agency says.
In a report on the latest stage of 20 years of research
on Friday, it said
that in a survey of 1,500 fish at 50 locations, one-third
of the males
showed female characteristics.
I wonder how they know this is something new. They don't
mention how
they know that the fish from 100 years ago did not
naturally show this
same characteristic.
I would think that scientists and naturalists have been
examing and disecting animals, insects and fish and
documenting their findings since long before 1904.
And there have always been cases of gender deviation.
How many there were then, compared with now, we will never know.
In 1904, if a fish showed female characteristics, they rarely
questioned it. they just called it a female. Although the behavior of
sex chromosomes and their relationship to gender was discovered in
1905, they did not have the motivation or the ability to do genetic
testing as easily as we can now.
The agency which monitors environmental pollution said
the sex changes were
a result of the fish being exposed to treated sewage
which still contained
hormones produced naturally by women or as a result of
them taking the
contraceptive pill.
"There is sufficient evidence of harm to fish caused by
sewage effluent that
action needs to be taken now to find out how to control
this," Andrew
Skinner, director of environmental protection at the
agency, said in a
statement.
"We need to find out what is the best and most
cost-effective way to remove
these chemicals from sewage," he added.
It named the offending natural hormones as oestradiol and
oestrone, and the
synthetic culprit as ethinyloestradiol.
It said the findings had serious implication for future
fish populations
because anything more than a moderate change in a fish's
sexual organs made
it more difficult to reproduce.
The Environment Agency noted that while the phenomenon
was being seen
worldwide, Britain had the most comprehensive data on it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "John M Price PhD" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 09:47:10 AM |
|
|
In alt.atheism article <hagve0tm99kk1bis5k2atmnvqc88b0g6dv@4ax.com> LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:
: And there have always been cases of gender deviation.
: How many there were then, compared with now, we will never know.
Pardon? You mean there *must* be only male and female?
: In 1904, if a fish showed female characteristics, they rarely
: questioned it. they just called it a female. Although the behavior of
: sex chromosomes and their relationship to gender was discovered in
: 1905, they did not have the motivation or the ability to do genetic
: testing as easily as we can now.
You really should spend more time with fish. They are fascinating. One
species, lost now to grad seminars (I am not an ichthyologist), has one
male in the school. Remove that male. About a day or two later, there
will be one male in the school.
Another species has two males. The smaller male sneaks fertilization hits
as the larger male guards the cache of eggs he presumably fertilized.
Lizards, too, have interesting sex stuff going on. In Arizona, New
MExico, etc. there is a species which is parthenogenic giving birth to
very few males. Thing is, though, no birth takes place without mounting.
As these females lack penes, it is simply the behavior involved.
Of course none of this was known by the bronze age folk living in the
midle east.
(c) 2004. Copyright, John M. Price, PhD. All Rights Reserved.
Contents may not be republished in any form or medium without prior
written consent of the author with the express and only exception of
followup postings limited to and within usenet.
--
John M. Price, PhD
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
MAFIA, n:
[Acronym for Mechanized Applications in Forced Insurance
Accounting.] An extensive network with many on-line and offshore
subsystems running under OS, DOS, and IOS. MAFIA documentation is
rather scanty, and the MAFIA sales office exhibits that testy
reluctance to bona fide inquiries which is the hallmark of so many DP
operations. From the little that has seeped out, it would appear that
MAFIA operates under a non-standard protocol, OMERTA, a tight-lipped
variant of SNA, in which extended handshakes also perform complex
security functions. The known timesharing aspects of MAFIA point to a
more than usually autocratic operating system. Screen prompts carry an
imperative, nonrefusable weighting (most menus offer simple YES/YES
options, defaulting to YES) that precludes indifference or delay.
Uniquely, all editing under MAFIA is performed centrally, using a
powerful rubout feature capable of erasing files, filors, filees, and
entire nodal aggravations.
- Stan Kelly-Bootle, "The Devil's DP Dictionary"
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Eric Pepke" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 12:47:35 PM |
|
|
LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<rjute0ho5npnln0880o78jquugd0iimiuv@4ax.com>...
I wonder how they know this is something new. They don't mention how
they know that the fish from 100 years ago did not naturally show this
same characteristic.
It isn't.
Many, many, many, many species develop sex based on environmental
conditions, not genetics.
Many fish and amphibians can change sex during their adult lives. It's
usually because there aren't enough of the target sex in the area.
I'm all for cleaning up waterways and all, but it's only within my
adult memory that fish appeared in the Thames at all. They had
been absent for hundreds of years.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Light Templar" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 12:55:14 PM |
|
|
While Eric Pepke was contemplating his or her navel in
news:ef37f531.0407100947.4f56c252@posting.google.com,
<epepke@acm.org> he or she gave us all a good laugh with the following...
LP <whirl_pool@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<rjute0ho5npnln0880o78jquugd0iimiuv@4ax.com>...
I wonder how they know this is something new. They don't mention how
they know that the fish from 100 years ago did not naturally show
this same characteristic.
It isn't.
Many, many, many, many species develop sex based on environmental
conditions, not genetics.
Many fish and amphibians can change sex during their adult lives.
It's
usually because there aren't enough of the target sex in the area.
I'm all for cleaning up waterways and all, but it's only within my
adult memory that fish appeared in the Thames at all. They had
been absent for hundreds of years.
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
--
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence. - Richard Dawkins
.
|
|
|
| User: "Eric Pepke" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 07:13:36 PM |
|
|
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 09:40:47 PM |
|
|
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I've always wondered why they call them "game" fish. Do they play Parcheesi
or Whist?
Just wondering . . .
-Tock
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 10:46:27 PM |
|
|
<tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:PM1Ic.13407$9w3.9824@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I've always wondered why they call them "game" fish. Do they play
Parcheesi
or Whist?
Just wondering . . .
-Tock
You MUST be expecting this. They play...Fish.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
11 Jul 2004 11:23:06 AM |
|
|
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vuKdnZ8t_sSQJW3d4p2dnA@comcast.com...
<tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:PM1Ic.13407$9w3.9824@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I've always wondered why they call them "game" fish. Do they play
Parcheesi
or Whist?
Just wondering . . .
-Tock
You MUST be expecting this. They play...Fish.
I see . . . it's all very clear to me now . . .
-Tock
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
11 Jul 2004 11:50:44 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:40:47 +0000, toc wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I've always wondered why they call them "game" fish. Do they play Parcheesi
or Whist?
Just wondering . . .
Hide and seek
Snatch the worm
Spit water in a cat's eye
Tease the fishermen
-Tock
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Light Templar" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 10:23:21 PM |
|
|
While was contemplating his or her navel in
news:PM1Ic.13407$9w3.9824@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com,
<> he or she gave us all a good laugh with the
following...
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I've always wondered why they call them "game" fish. Do they play
Parcheesi or Whist?
Just wondering . . .
-Tock
No, they are called game fish because they actually taste good in a butter
sauce.
--
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence. - Richard Dawkins
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
11 Jul 2004 11:49:23 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:13:36 -0700, Eric Pepke wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
.
|
|
|
| User: "AngryJohn" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
12 Jul 2004 12:07:05 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:49:23 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:13:36 -0700, Eric Pepke wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
It is amazing that the lake was able to be restored at some level and
to support fish and such.
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lord Calvert" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
12 Jul 2004 12:52:19 AM |
|
|
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
It is amazing that the lake was able to be restored at some level and
to support fish and such.
Regrettably, there are portions of Lake Ontario which show some of the same
signs Lake Erie did 30 years ago...particularly around Hamilton.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
.
|
|
|
| User: "AngryJohn" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
13 Jul 2004 10:21:28 PM |
|
|
On 12 Jul 2004 05:52:19 GMT, forlornh@aol.complicated (Lord Calvert)
wrote:
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
It is amazing that the lake was able to be restored at some level and
to support fish and such.
Regrettably, there are portions of Lake Ontario which show some of the same
signs Lake Erie did 30 years ago...particularly around Hamilton.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
Sigh, well I hope the right things get done to fix it.
I am slowly reaching a point where environmental issues are
outweighing everything else that influences my vote. I do not really
fit into either of the major parties and none of the minor parties. I
have to choose issues which are important to me as an individual.
I am pro-choice, Pro-gun, tree hugging, pro-gay rights/marriage (read
as "All people treated equal" all meaning all not just my friends and
neighbors.) Seems I have a pretty across the board mix of issues.....
Sigh, yes I will vote, always have.
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
14 Jul 2004 01:15:22 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:07:05 -0400, AngryJohn wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:49:23 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:13:36 -0700, Eric Pepke wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
It is amazing that the lake was able to be restored at some level and
to support fish and such.
I have no idea what steps had to be taken. All those efforts
started after I had left Detroit.
.
|
|
|
| User: "AngryJohn" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
14 Jul 2004 08:23:48 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:15:22 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:07:05 -0400, AngryJohn wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:49:23 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:13:36 -0700, Eric Pepke wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
It is amazing that the lake was able to be restored at some level and
to support fish and such.
I have no idea what steps had to be taken. All those efforts
started after I had left Detroit.
I know it was extensive. Worked in and around some of the plants
doing some of the work. Primarily though, IIRC, it revolved around
not making it any worse, stopping the dumping of every damn toxin that
existed in there. Until they did that nothing could work. I also
recall reading somewhere that they have a pretty good Walleye fishery
there now, lots of tourist fishermen, lots of money. Tree hugging
actually resulting in an economic boom for some areas. We need to do
more of that type of work, especially pre-emptive.
Growing up in Michigan I enjoyed the outdoors and all the activities
involved, hope it is still there for my kids. It does mean work
though. A tough proposition for people that want nothing more than to
take, take, take......
------------------------------
aa#2106
Remove Belief to reply
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
15 Jul 2004 11:14:12 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:23:48 -0400, AngryJohn wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:15:22 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:07:05 -0400, AngryJohn wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:49:23 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:13:36 -0700, Eric Pepke wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the 1940's
due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten years or so that
the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Must have been when the Detroit River did. For many years Erie was
a lifeless lake. IIRC, about ten years ago it was able to be restocked.
It is amazing that the lake was able to be restored at some level and
to support fish and such.
I have no idea what steps had to be taken. All those efforts
started after I had left Detroit.
I know it was extensive. Worked in and around some of the plants
doing some of the work. Primarily though, IIRC, it revolved around
not making it any worse, stopping the dumping of every damn toxin that
existed in there. Until they did that nothing could work. I also
recall reading somewhere that they have a pretty good Walleye fishery
there now, lots of tourist fishermen, lots of money. Tree hugging
actually resulting in an economic boom for some areas. We need to do
more of that type of work, especially pre-emptive.
Agreed.
Growing up in Michigan I enjoyed the outdoors and all the activities
involved, hope it is still there for my kids. It does mean work
though. A tough proposition for people that want nothing more than to
take, take, take......
Tough indeed. :\
As for outdoors....in a concrete jungle....(sigh)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Light Templar" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 07:20:50 PM |
|
|
While Eric Pepke was contemplating his or her navel in
news:ef37f531.0407101613.b552259@posting.google.com,
<epepke@acm.org> he or she gave us all a good laugh with the following...
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message
news:<64WHc.9315$sD4.5275@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Same sort of thing in my local area. There are numerous local lakes.
There had been nothing but "trash fish" (Carp, etc) since about the
1940's due to the pollution and such. It's been just the last ten
years or so that the game fish have started to reappear.
I hear ya.
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Several times. I also remember when the phosphate leve was so high that
the shoreline was suds as far as the eye could see.
--
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence. - Richard Dawkins
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lord Calvert" |
|
| Title: Re: Trans-sexual fish -- Science Trumps God |
10 Jul 2004 07:49:17 PM |
|
|
I'm old enough to remember when Lake Erie was so polluted that
it caught fire.
Several times. I also remember when the phosphate leve was so high that
the shoreline was suds as far as the eye could see.
I live near Lake Erie and the Niagara River. I remember it as well. When I was
a seven-year old kid and I went to summer camp in the village of
Angola-on-the-Lake, NY back in 1970 there were so many rotting fish on the
shore you could hardly breathe. Now the beaches are crowded with swimmers and
sunbathers.
It's not perfect. You can still see the suds, particularly at the base of
Niagara Falls where the water churns them up, but it is overwhelmingly better
than it was 35 years ago.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
