| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Carol Lee Smith" |
| Date: |
22 Oct 2003 08:18:45 PM |
| Object: |
Trashing the Constitution? |
Is the legislature trying to tell us that if we don't believe the way they
believe you are not a good American?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religious Liberties Restoration Act (Introduced in Senate) 108th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 1558
To restore religious freedoms.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
August 1 (legislative day, JULY 21), 2003
Mr. ALLARD introduced the following bill; which was read twice and
referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To restore religious freedoms.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Religious Liberties Restoration Act'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds the following:
(1) The Declaration of Independence declares that governments are
instituted to secure certain unalienable rights, including life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness, with which all human beings are endowed by
their Creator and to which they are entitled by the laws of nature and of
nature's God.
(2) The organic laws of the United States Code and the constitutions of
every State, using various expressions, recognize God as the source of the
blessings of liberty.
(3) The first amendment to the Constitution secures rights against laws
respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof made by the Federal Government.
(4) The rights secured under the first amendment have been interpreted by
the Federal courts to be included among the provisions of the 14th
amendment.
(5) The 10th amendment reserves to the States, respectively, the powers
not delegated to the Federal Government nor prohibited to the States.
(6) Disputes and doubts have arisen with respect to public displays of the
Ten Commandments and to other public expression of religious faith.
(7) Section 5 of the 14th amendment grants Congress the power to enforce
the provisions of the 14th amendment.
(8) Article III, section 2 of the Constitution grants Congress the
authority to except certain matters from the jurisdiction of the Federal
courts inferior to the Supreme Court.
SEC. 3. RELIGIOUS LIBERTY RIGHTS DECLARED.
(a) DISPLAY OF TEN COMMANDMENTS- The power to display the Ten Commandments
on or within property owned or administered by the several States or
political subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the
States, respectively.
(b) WORD `GOD' IN PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE- The power to recite the Pledge of
Allegiance on or within property owned or administered by the several
States or political subdivisions of such States is among the powers
reserved to the States, respectively. The Pledge of Allegiance shall be,
`I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to
the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with
Liberty and justice for all.'.
(c) MOTTO `IN GOD WE TRUST'- The power to recite the national motto on or
within property owned or administered by the several States or political
subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the States,
respectively. The national motto shall be, `In God we trust'.
(d) EXERCISE OF CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO EXCEPT- The subject matter of
subsections (a), (b), and (c) are excepted from the jurisdiction of
Federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court.
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Trashing the Constitution? |
23 Oct 2003 11:38:09 AM |
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Carol Lee Smith wrote:
Is the legislature trying to tell us that if we don't believe the way they
believe you are not a good American?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religious Liberties Restoration Act (Introduced in Senate) 108th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 1558
To restore religious freedoms.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
August 1 (legislative day, JULY 21), 2003
Mr. ALLARD introduced the following bill; which was read twice and
referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL
To restore religious freedoms.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Religious Liberties Restoration Act'.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds the following:
(1) The Declaration of Independence declares that governments are
instituted to secure certain unalienable rights, including life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness, with which all human beings are endowed by
their Creator and to which they are entitled by the laws of nature and of
nature's God.
Except when that pursuit occures in violation of the Dominant Power's
religious opinions, in which case God hearby prohibits the pursuit under
penalty of death.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Trashing the Constitution? |
23 Oct 2003 10:43:20 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:18:45 -0500, a stranger
called by some Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Is the legislature trying to tell us that if we don't believe the way they
believe you are not a good American?
Gee.. I guess this guy never bothered to read the First Amedment.
I especially liked the bit forbiding the courts from reviewing it!
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Rv Cloim" |
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| Title: Re: Trashing the Constitution? |
22 Oct 2003 09:22:09 PM |
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:18:45 -0500, Carol Lee Smith wrote:
Is the legislature trying to tell us that if we don't believe the way they
believe you are not a good American?
No. But some of them seem to think you can get around an unconstitutional
law by declaring in the law that it is constitutional.
<snip>
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
Congress finds the following:
(1) The Declaration of Independence declares that governments are
instituted to secure certain unalienable rights, including life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness, with which all human beings are endowed by
their Creator and to which they are entitled by the laws of nature and of
nature's God.
Even if you want to place legal weight on the DOI there is the problem of
it being superceded by the Constitution and it's amendments.
(2) The organic laws of the United States Code and the constitutions of
every State, using various expressions, recognize God as the source of the
blessings of liberty.
No they don't.
Missouri:
<quote>
Source of political power--origin, basis and aim of government.
Section 1. That all political power is vested in and derived from the
people; that all government of right originates from the people, is
founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole.
</quote>
Source: Const. of 1875, Art. II, § 1.
(3) The first amendment to the Constitution secures rights against laws
respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof made by the Federal Government.
True, but worded poorly.
(4) The rights secured under the first amendment have been interpreted by
the Federal courts to be included among the provisions of the 14th
amendment.
True. The 14th amendment came after the 1st.
(5) The 10th amendment reserves to the States, respectively, the powers
not delegated to the Federal Government nor prohibited to the States.
True. But see above.
(6) Disputes and doubts have arisen with respect to public displays of the
Ten Commandments and to other public expression of religious faith.
Not public displays or public expression. Government displays and
government expressions.
(7) Section 5 of the 14th amendment grants Congress the power to enforce
the provisions of the 14th amendment.
True.
(8) Article III, section 2 of the Constitution grants Congress the
authority to except certain matters from the jurisdiction of the Federal
courts inferior to the Supreme Court.
I'll have to re-read it to verify.
SEC. 3. RELIGIOUS LIBERTY RIGHTS DECLARED.
(a) DISPLAY OF TEN COMMANDMENTS- The power to display the Ten Commandments
on or within property owned or administered by the several States or
political subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the
States, respectively.
You can't bypass the 14th amendment by writing a law. You need another
amendment.
(b)
same
(c) MOTTO `IN GOD WE TRUST'- The power to recite the national motto on or
within property owned or administered by the several States or political
subdivisions of such States is among the powers reserved to the States,
respectively. The national motto shall be, `In God we trust'.
If the motto is determined to be constitutional then this section is
redundant.
Otherwise you need an amendment.
(d) EXERCISE OF CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO EXCEPT- The subject matter of
subsections (a), (b), and (c) are excepted from the jurisdiction of
Federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court.
Better watch your back. Do that with this and it's going to end up being
tacked onto everything.
.
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| User: "Larry Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Trashing the Constitution? |
23 Oct 2003 08:37:32 AM |
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"Rv Cloim" <cloim@propylaea.tor.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.23.02.24.47.301550@propylaea.tor.org...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:18:45 -0500, Carol Lee Smith wrote:
[...]
Otherwise you need an amendment.
(d) EXERCISE OF CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO EXCEPT- The subject matter of
subsections (a), (b), and (c) are excepted from the jurisdiction of
Federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court.
Better watch your back. Do that with this and it's going to end up being
tacked onto everything.
What they are doing here is capitalizing on the ignorance and indifference
of the American people, who don't understand the federal courts. Most laws
declared unconstitutional never reach the Supreme Court; the bad laws are
nullified by the overworked intermediate federal judges and appellate
courts.
The charlatans in Congress who attach this oily little rider know what most
Americans don't know, that the US Supreme Court crawls up a tree backwards
to avoid hearing controversies about unconstitutional laws. Odds against a
hearing in Scotus are overwhelming. Not even 1 in 100 petitions filed
before the Supreme Court even has a chance of being heard. The clerks
throw out more than 99 out of 100 petitions before the justices even see
them.
Without the checks and balances of an overseeing high court wisely,
carefully crafted into the Constitution by the Founders, Congress becomes
what it is becoming --- a parliament of whores.
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: Trashing the Constitution? |
24 Oct 2003 07:56:00 PM |
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In article <vpfmd7mq72i0af@corp.supernews.com>,
"Larry Smith" <dbrigman3@charter.net> wrote:
"Rv Cloim" <cloim@propylaea.tor.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.23.02.24.47.301550@propylaea.tor.org...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:18:45 -0500, Carol Lee Smith wrote:
[...]
Otherwise you need an amendment.
(d) EXERCISE OF CONGRESSIONAL POWER TO EXCEPT- The subject matter of
subsections (a), (b), and (c) are excepted from the jurisdiction of
Federal courts inferior to the Supreme Court.
Better watch your back. Do that with this and it's going to end up being
tacked onto everything.
Article III Section 2 states:
"In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls,
and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have
original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the
supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and
Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress
shall make.
So Congress can make exceptions to the appellate jurisdiction of the
supreme court (and when Congress gets pissed at the court they have from
time to time threatened to do this very thing, by stripping the court's
appellate jurisdiction which would make the state supreme court the last
stop in the process.
But I do not see how Congress has the power to limit the jurisdiction
(appellate or otherwise) of inferior courts. They have the power to
create them, but I see nothing in the constitution that suggests it has
the power to determine jurisdiction. The only power regarding
jurisdiction of the courts I find in the constitution is specifically
the appellate power of the supreme court previously mentioned.
Chris
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