| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2005 12:55:09 PM |
| Object: |
Trinity Nonsense |
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
1)God cannot be tempted; the idea is absurd. Yet Jesus was, Matt. 4:1
2) God would not need to pray. Yet Jesus not only prays privately,
but fails to get what he wanted, Matt 26:39,42,44.
3) A single unified God cannot forsake itself. Yet Jesus is
forsaken,Matt. 27:46. If someone wants to argue that he is quoting
Psalm 22,fine, that Pslam also has the character it is about say that
he is less than a man, a mere worm. Would God refer to himself as a
worm?
4) God is the source not the receiver of authority. Jesus said he
received authority, Matt. 28:14.
5) Jesus talks about God, Mark 3:35
6) Jesus said only God was good, Luke 18, 19
7) No one has ever seen God, but many saw Jesus, John 1:18
8) Jesus said the Father was greater than him; contrary to the
trinity doctrine which clearly teaches that all members of the God-
Head are coeternal and coequal. John 14:28
9) Jesus admits he has a God, John 20:17
10 Paul did not believe in the trinity because he said he served the
same God as his Jewish ancestors (and they did not believe in a God
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) Acts 24:14
11) Paul states Jesus is between God and humans, therefore Jesus is
not God, I Cor. 3:23
12) Paul says the Father is God, and Jesus is a seperate being, I
Cor. 8:5-6
13) Paul says Jesus has a God, II Cor 11:31
14) Paul again states that Jesus is the MEDIATOR between God and
humans, I Tim. 2:5-7
15) John says that no one has ever seen God if Jesus was God this
would make no sense, I John 4:12
Taking certain passages out of context created the trinity doctrine.One
can see from John's writing that Jesus is distinct from God, that Jesus
has a God, and that no one ever saw God. The verses taken out of
context and even mistranslated are John 1:1, can be more accurately
translated, in context, with this ending: and the Word was God's. That
translation places everything that follows into context compared to
what a mistranslation said. IMO, the early Christians were so obsessed
with the mystery religions that Jesus was invented to go along with it.
John 1:18 is mistranslated to make it appear that God begot God. If
that is true, then Jesus was not coeternal and the whole trinity
doctrine comes crashing down. John 8:58 is the most common verse taken
out of context. In John, Jesus merely says: "I Am", but when one goes
back to check what is actually written in Exodus, one gets far more
words: Eheyeh asher eheyeh, translated it is I will be who I will be,
or I Am that I Am. Jesus did not say in John, "I Am that I Am".
Therefore the apologetic is based on pulling a half sentence out of
Exodus. John 10:30 only means that Jesus and
God were in agreement, this makes sense if he was doing the will of
another and giving the message of another -- something the New
Testament asserts. One need only look at John 10:30 in light of John
17:20-23 -- are we supposed to believe that God now includes the
apostles! Col. 2:9 is made clear with Col 1:15-16; some people say I am
the image of my father -- but that does not make me my father.
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia, or more accurately the Roman
province by that name. In II Tim 1:15 Paul complains that "all those in
Asia turned away from me" and in Romans 1:21 that these heretics
invented foolish notions about God. The trinity easily is one of those
foolish notions.
There simply is no trinity and to believe in one, one must ignore at
least 15, in context, quotes from new testament to the contrary.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath !
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| User: "André Keshave" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 12:27:52 PM |
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"Truth Hunter"
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
[....]
***********
How come this nonsense is the religion of such a successful and influential
civilization?
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| User: "Stephen M. Adams" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
18 Aug 2005 05:04:44 PM |
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"André Keshave" <andre_dumarc@hotmayle.com> writes:
"Truth Hunter"
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
[....]
***********
How come this nonsense is the religion of such a successful and influential
civilization?
A thing doesn't have to be true to have great effect. Greek Mythology has
a great effect on literature, language, etc, etc, and it's not 'true' in the
sense most Christians mean that Christianity is 'true.'
-Stephen
--
Space Age Cybernomad Stephen Adams
(remove SPAM to reply)
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| User: "•€R.L.Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
18 Aug 2005 04:23:02 PM |
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In article <4300d0cd_2@news.bluewin.ch>, "André Keshave"
<andre_dumarc@hotmayle.com> wrote:
"Truth Hunter"
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
• Amen, André. Jesus had to become a god in order to incorporate ritual
cannibalism into the religion and thereby provide a reason for people to
come to church and bring their wallets.
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ."
-- Thomas Jefferson
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
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| User: "André Keshave" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
22 Aug 2005 07:57:31 AM |
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".?R.L.Measures"
"André Keshave"
"Truth Hunter"
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
. Amen, André. Jesus had to become a god in order to incorporate ritual
cannibalism into the religion and thereby provide a reason for people to
come to church and bring their wallets.
Btw that was Truth Hunter, not me. (The quotation markings were indeed
missing).
Do you know "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel?
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| User: "Kenneth P. Turvey" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
22 Aug 2005 09:05:33 AM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
André Keshave wrote:
Do you know "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel?
I read the "The case for Easter" not too long ago. It was interesting. The
points made were roughly:
1) Jesus lived and preached.
2) He died on the cross.
3) His tomb was found empty the next day.
4) He was later seen alive by many, many people.
For points 1-3 the author makes a good argument, but without point four
there is no reason to pay any attention to this Jesus guy. The arguments
here are really, really unconvincing. In order to prove that someone was
raised from the dead you really need substantial evidence and that evidence
does not exist.
- --
Ken
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| User: "Ken" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
22 Aug 2005 08:27:25 AM |
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André Keshave wrote:
Do you know "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel?
I read the "The case for Easter" not too long ago. It was interesting. The
points made were roughly:
1) Jesus lived and preached.
2) He died on the cross.
3) His tomb was found empty the next day.
4) He was later seen alive by many, many people.
For points 1-3 the author makes a good argument, but without point four
there is no reason to pay any attention to this Jesus guy. The arguments
here are really, really unconvincing. In order to prove that someone was
raised from the dead you really need substantial evidence and that evidence
does not exist.
--
Ken
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| User: "Kenneth P. Turvey" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
22 Aug 2005 09:03:32 AM |
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André Keshave wrote:
Do you know "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel?
I read the "The case for Easter" not too long ago. It was interesting. The
points made were roughly:
1) Jesus lived and preached.
2) He died on the cross.
3) His tomb was found empty the next day.
4) He was later seen alive by many, many people.
For points 1-3 the author makes a good argument, but without point four
there is no reason to pay any attention to this Jesus guy. The arguments
here are really, really unconvincing. In order to prove that someone was
raised from the dead you really need substantial evidence and that evidence
does not exist.
--
Ken
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| User: "Kenneth P. Turvey" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
22 Aug 2005 09:04:42 AM |
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André Keshave wrote:
Do you know "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel?
I read the "The case for Easter" not too long ago. It was interesting. The
points made were roughly:
1) Jesus lived and preached.
2) He died on the cross.
3) His tomb was found empty the next day.
4) He was later seen alive by many, many people.
For points 1-3 the author makes a good argument, but without point four
there is no reason to pay any attention to this Jesus guy. The arguments
here are really, really unconvincing. In order to prove that someone was
raised from the dead you really need substantial evidence and that evidence
does not exist.
--
Ken
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| User: "•€R.L.Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
22 Aug 2005 08:17:12 AM |
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In article <4309cbcc$1_3@news.bluewin.ch>, "André Keshave"
<andre_dumarc@hotmayle.com> wrote:
".?R.L.Measures"
"André Keshave"
"Truth Hunter"
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
. Amen, André. Jesus had to become a god in order to incorporate ritual
cannibalism into the religion and thereby provide a reason for people to
come to church and bring their wallets.
Btw that was Truth Hunter, not me. (The quotation markings were indeed
missing).
Do you know "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel?
** No.
I believe there was an itinerant rabbi who called himself 'the Son of
man', but I do not believe there could be a "Christ" that magically washes
away human sins -- except of course in the creative minds of those who
earn their living through salvation businesses.
cheers, André
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 07:27:59 AM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia,
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and even
the Greek, Roman, Celtic and Norse pantheons all originated from Asia.
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| User: "H Dickmann" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 08:04:43 AM |
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"Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddq1ob$7js$1@news.seed.net.tw...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia,
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and even
the Greek, Roman, Celtic and Norse pantheons all originated from Asia.
So what? Even native Americans came fro Asia and so did English.
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| User: "VO" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 09:22:46 AM |
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"H Dickmann" <HERPEM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Lp0Me.86088$oJ.78704@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddq1ob$7js$1@news.seed.net.tw...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia,
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and even
the Greek, Roman, Celtic and Norse pantheons all originated from Asia.
So what? Even native Americans came fro Asia and so did English.
They all migrated from there about 3000 to 5000 years ago and it hasn't
changed since.
Western culture advanced.
Most call it cultural evolution and advancement AKA civilization.
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| User: "•€R.L.Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 10:56:21 AM |
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In article <Lp0Me.86088$oJ.78704@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "H Dickmann"
<HERPEM@bigpond.com> wrote:
"Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddq1ob$7js$1@news.seed.net.tw...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia,
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and even
the Greek, Roman, Celtic and Norse pantheons all originated from Asia.
So what? Even native Americans came fro Asia and so did English.
• English was begun by a group of Deutchlanders who came across the
English Channel in days of yore. Later on, English was influenced by
Latin and somewhat by French. English has about 2x as many words as
Spanish, French or German. Unfortunately, English spelling can only be
described as seriously hellish.
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 05:39:16 PM |
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"Peacenik" <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddq1ob$7js$1@news.seed.net.tw...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia,
Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and even
the Greek, Roman, Celtic and Norse pantheons all originated from Asia.
Hmmm....Asia. You might as well say "earth".
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 06:59:02 AM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
BAM
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| User: "•€R.L.Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 07:34:16 AM |
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In article <Mq%Le.11757$Rm3.4620@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
** God may reward him with more cute cherubs?
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 04:20:38 PM |
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"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote
What's to gain?
** God may reward him with more cute cherubs?
I believe there are nine orders and three choirs of angels. Can you name
them?
Did you know that each cherub is as different from the next, as, say, an
elephant is to a rabbit or a dolphin?
NAM
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| User: "•€R.L.Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 10:19:16 PM |
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In article <lF7Me.15352$XM3.3963@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote
What's to gain?
** God may reward him with more cute cherubs?
I believe there are nine orders and three choirs of angels. Can you name
them?
• no
Did you know that each cherub is as different from the next, as, say, an
elephant is to a rabbit or a dolphin?
• *****
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 11:51:26 PM |
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"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1508052019160001@192.168.1.101...
In article <lF7Me.15352$XM3.3963@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote
What's to gain?
** God may reward him with more cute cherubs?
I believe there are nine orders and three choirs of angels. Can you name
them?
• no
Did you know that each cherub is as different from the next, as, say, an
elephant is to a rabbit or a dolphin?
• *****
Very indocile tonight. tsk tsk
BAM
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| User: "•€R.L.Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
16 Aug 2005 05:40:22 AM |
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In article <mgeMe.17136$XL3.12386@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r_-1508052019160001@192.168.1.101...
In article <lF7Me.15352$XM3.3963@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote
What's to gain?
** God may reward him with more cute cherubs?
I believe there are nine orders and three choirs of angels. Can you name
them?
• no
Did you know that each cherub is as different from the next, as, say, an
elephant is to a rabbit or a dolphin?
• *****
Very indocile tonight. tsk tsk
• The elephant size cherub was what did it, B.. No priest could possibly
have one big enough to reach.
cheerz
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 08:23:44 PM |
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in article lF7Me.15352$XM3.3963@bignews5.bellsouth.net, bam at
mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net wrote on 8/15/05 5:20 PM:
"•€R.L.Measures" <r_@somis.org> wrote
What's to gain?
** God may reward him with more cute cherubs?
I believe there are nine orders and three choirs of angels. Can you name
them?
Did you know that each cherub is as different from the next, as, say, an
elephant is to a rabbit or a dolphin?
So? Not ONE of them will do ANYTHING for you and me...
Paul
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 11:35:40 AM |
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bam wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
Exactly. You're starting to get it, bam. Hopefully "Truth Hunter" will
get it. :-)
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 04:14:28 PM |
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"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:wv3Me.5617$1b5.3676@trnddc05...
bam wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
Exactly. You're starting to get it, bam. Hopefully "Truth Hunter" will
get it. :-)
Thank you - perhaps though, I'm raising your consciousness :)
BAM
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 08:22:51 PM |
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in article zz7Me.15350$XM3.3089@bignews5.bellsouth.net, bam at
mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net wrote on 8/15/05 5:14 PM:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:wv3Me.5617$1b5.3676@trnddc05...
bam wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
Exactly. You're starting to get it, bam. Hopefully "Truth Hunter" will
get it. :-)
Thank you - perhaps though, I'm raising your consciousness :)
Only because Catholic God never gives Bam a chance to lower his
trousers....
Paul
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 11:52:05 PM |
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"Paul Duca" <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BF26B82A.F1FE%p.duca@comcast.net...
in article zz7Me.15350$XM3.3089@bignews5.bellsouth.net, bam at
mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net wrote on 8/15/05 5:14 PM:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:wv3Me.5617$1b5.3676@trnddc05...
bam wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even
believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
Exactly. You're starting to get it, bam. Hopefully "Truth Hunter" will
get it. :-)
Thank you - perhaps though, I'm raising your consciousness :)
Only because Catholic God never gives Bam a chance to lower his
trousers....
Sewer Paulie, sewer........
BAM
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
16 Aug 2005 06:15:20 AM |
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in article ZgeMe.17138$XL3.2046@bignews3.bellsouth.net, bam at
mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net wrote on 8/16/05 12:52 AM:
"Paul Duca" <p.duca@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BF26B82A.F1FE%p.duca@comcast.net...
in article zz7Me.15350$XM3.3089@bignews5.bellsouth.net, bam at
mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net wrote on 8/15/05 5:14 PM:
"DanielSan" <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:wv3Me.5617$1b5.3676@trnddc05...
bam wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
Why argue the mystery of the Trinity with a guy who doesn't even
believe
that Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
What's to gain?
Exactly. You're starting to get it, bam. Hopefully "Truth Hunter" will
get it. :-)
Thank you - perhaps though, I'm raising your consciousness :)
Only because Catholic God never gives Bam a chance to lower his
trousers....
Sewer Paulie, sewer........
After a stint in the boringly wholesome Catholic Heaven, Bam will
BEG to get into the sewer....
Paul
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| User: "H Dickmann" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
15 Aug 2005 07:05:14 AM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124042109.736529.323310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Trinity Nonsense
Then who or what is the holy Spirit?
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
1)God cannot be tempted; the idea is absurd. Yet Jesus was, Matt. 4:1
2) God would not need to pray. Yet Jesus not only prays privately,
but fails to get what he wanted, Matt 26:39,42,44.
3) A single unified God cannot forsake itself. Yet Jesus is
forsaken,Matt. 27:46. If someone wants to argue that he is quoting
Psalm 22,fine, that Pslam also has the character it is about say that
he is less than a man, a mere worm. Would God refer to himself as a
worm?
4) God is the source not the receiver of authority. Jesus said he
received authority, Matt. 28:14.
5) Jesus talks about God, Mark 3:35
6) Jesus said only God was good, Luke 18, 19
7) No one has ever seen God, but many saw Jesus, John 1:18
8) Jesus said the Father was greater than him; contrary to the
trinity doctrine which clearly teaches that all members of the God-
Head are coeternal and coequal. John 14:28
9) Jesus admits he has a God, John 20:17
10 Paul did not believe in the trinity because he said he served the
same God as his Jewish ancestors (and they did not believe in a God
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) Acts 24:14
11) Paul states Jesus is between God and humans, therefore Jesus is
not God, I Cor. 3:23
12) Paul says the Father is God, and Jesus is a seperate being, I
Cor. 8:5-6
13) Paul says Jesus has a God, II Cor 11:31
14) Paul again states that Jesus is the MEDIATOR between God and
humans, I Tim. 2:5-7
15) John says that no one has ever seen God if Jesus was God this
would make no sense, I John 4:12
Taking certain passages out of context created the trinity doctrine.One
can see from John's writing that Jesus is distinct from God, that Jesus
has a God, and that no one ever saw God. The verses taken out of
context and even mistranslated are John 1:1, can be more accurately
translated, in context, with this ending: and the Word was God's. That
translation places everything that follows into context compared to
what a mistranslation said. IMO, the early Christians were so obsessed
with the mystery religions that Jesus was invented to go along with it.
John 1:18 is mistranslated to make it appear that God begot God. If
that is true, then Jesus was not coeternal and the whole trinity
doctrine comes crashing down. John 8:58 is the most common verse taken
out of context. In John, Jesus merely says: "I Am", but when one goes
back to check what is actually written in Exodus, one gets far more
words: Eheyeh asher eheyeh, translated it is I will be who I will be,
or I Am that I Am. Jesus did not say in John, "I Am that I Am".
Therefore the apologetic is based on pulling a half sentence out of
Exodus. John 10:30 only means that Jesus and
God were in agreement, this makes sense if he was doing the will of
another and giving the message of another -- something the New
Testament asserts. One need only look at John 10:30 in light of John
17:20-23 -- are we supposed to believe that God now includes the
apostles! Col. 2:9 is made clear with Col 1:15-16; some people say I am
the image of my father -- but that does not make me my father.
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia, or more accurately the Roman
province by that name. In II Tim 1:15 Paul complains that "all those in
Asia turned away from me" and in Romans 1:21 that these heretics
invented foolish notions about God. The trinity easily is one of those
foolish notions.
There simply is no trinity and to believe in one, one must ignore at
least 15, in context, quotes from new testament to the contrary.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
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| User: "drahcir" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
18 Aug 2005 07:12:32 AM |
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All religion is nonsense, since there is no God.. As with all
philosophies or political ideologies, any religion is a teaching, more
or less responsible for the thoughts and deeds of its adherents,
without which IT WOULD NOT EXIST. When viewed in this way, there can
be no doubt that the first religion that should be eradicated due to
the tremendous damage it does to believers and non-believers, is
Islam.
This truth is obvious, no need to hunt for it.
On 14 Aug 2005 10:55:09 -0700, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
1)God cannot be tempted; the idea is absurd. Yet Jesus was, Matt. 4:1
2) God would not need to pray. Yet Jesus not only prays privately,
but fails to get what he wanted, Matt 26:39,42,44.
3) A single unified God cannot forsake itself. Yet Jesus is
forsaken,Matt. 27:46. If someone wants to argue that he is quoting
Psalm 22,fine, that Pslam also has the character it is about say that
he is less than a man, a mere worm. Would God refer to himself as a
worm?
4) God is the source not the receiver of authority. Jesus said he
received authority, Matt. 28:14.
5) Jesus talks about God, Mark 3:35
6) Jesus said only God was good, Luke 18, 19
7) No one has ever seen God, but many saw Jesus, John 1:18
8) Jesus said the Father was greater than him; contrary to the
trinity doctrine which clearly teaches that all members of the God-
Head are coeternal and coequal. John 14:28
9) Jesus admits he has a God, John 20:17
10 Paul did not believe in the trinity because he said he served the
same God as his Jewish ancestors (and they did not believe in a God
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) Acts 24:14
11) Paul states Jesus is between God and humans, therefore Jesus is
not God, I Cor. 3:23
12) Paul says the Father is God, and Jesus is a seperate being, I
Cor. 8:5-6
13) Paul says Jesus has a God, II Cor 11:31
14) Paul again states that Jesus is the MEDIATOR between God and
humans, I Tim. 2:5-7
15) John says that no one has ever seen God if Jesus was God this
would make no sense, I John 4:12
Taking certain passages out of context created the trinity doctrine.One
can see from John's writing that Jesus is distinct from God, that Jesus
has a God, and that no one ever saw God. The verses taken out of
context and even mistranslated are John 1:1, can be more accurately
translated, in context, with this ending: and the Word was God's. That
translation places everything that follows into context compared to
what a mistranslation said. IMO, the early Christians were so obsessed
with the mystery religions that Jesus was invented to go along with it.
John 1:18 is mistranslated to make it appear that God begot God. If
that is true, then Jesus was not coeternal and the whole trinity
doctrine comes crashing down. John 8:58 is the most common verse taken
out of context. In John, Jesus merely says: "I Am", but when one goes
back to check what is actually written in Exodus, one gets far more
words: Eheyeh asher eheyeh, translated it is I will be who I will be,
or I Am that I Am. Jesus did not say in John, "I Am that I Am".
Therefore the apologetic is based on pulling a half sentence out of
Exodus. John 10:30 only means that Jesus and
God were in agreement, this makes sense if he was doing the will of
another and giving the message of another -- something the New
Testament asserts. One need only look at John 10:30 in light of John
17:20-23 -- are we supposed to believe that God now includes the
apostles! Col. 2:9 is made clear with Col 1:15-16; some people say I am
the image of my father -- but that does not make me my father.
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia, or more accurately the Roman
province by that name. In II Tim 1:15 Paul complains that "all those in
Asia turned away from me" and in Romans 1:21 that these heretics
invented foolish notions about God. The trinity easily is one of those
foolish notions.
There simply is no trinity and to believe in one, one must ignore at
least 15, in context, quotes from new testament to the contrary.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation from his own
wrath !
.
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| User: "AnonMoos" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
14 Aug 2005 02:33:31 PM |
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I'm desolated that you never seem to have looked at my translated
Arabic-language "Shield of the Trinity" diagram, Abu Truthhunter!
http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/shield-trinity.htm
%!
/!{def}def/r{rotate}!/t{/Times-Roman exch selectfont}!/O{show}!/q{gsave}!
2.5 setlinewidth/Q{grestore}!/L{rlineto}!/c{55 0 360 arc q 1 setgray fill
Q l}!/l{stroke}!/m{moveto}!/Z{m(NON )O W}!/W{(EST)O}! 96 575 m 181 -104 L
0 -208 L 48 0 L 0 208 L 181 104 L -24 41 L -181 -104 L -181 104 L l 192.5
108 596 m dup -333 L 333 L -385 0 L l 32 t 55 591 m 215 -372 L 60 0 L 215
372 L -30 52 L -430 0 L l 300 484 c 106 596 c 494 596 c 300 262 c 229 608
Z q 60 r 501 -163 Z Q q -60 r -339 357 Z Q q -30 r -123 560 m W Q q -90 r
-403 291 m W Q q 30 r 584 259 m W Q 258 475 m(DEUS)O 56 588 m(PATER)O 445
588 m(FILIUS)O 22 t 252 268 m(SPIRITUS)O 250 247 m(SANCTUS)O showpage% PS
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| User: "Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
17 Aug 2005 07:03:06 AM |
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On 14 Aug 2005 10:55:09 -0700, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
1)God cannot be tempted; the idea is absurd. Yet Jesus was, Matt. 4:1
as an atheist, i gotta say this makes no sense. god can do anything he
wants. if he wants to feel temptation, why can't he? argument from
incredulity?
2) God would not need to pray. Yet Jesus not only prays privately,
but fails to get what he wanted, Matt 26:39,42,44.
again, he misses the point. if god became human (and that is, indeed,
the message of jesus), experiencing human feelings and emotions,
desires and wants...like prayer...would not be beyond him.
3) A single unified God cannot forsake itself. Yet Jesus is
forsaken,Matt. 27:46.
this, to me, again as an atheist, is one of the most touching aspects
of jesus's walk on earth. he 'became man' to the point where he could
feel as abandoned as we feel sometimes.
again, his argument makes no sense.
Taking certain passages out of context created the trinity doctrine.
i disagree. the christians have a point...it's a point that makes as
much sense as believing in any OTHER religion.
god can be who 'he' wants to be. xtians have tried to gloss over the
trinity by saying it's a 'mystery', and, indeed it is. where in your
logic does it say logic applies to god?
IMO, the early Christians were so obsessed
with the mystery religions that Jesus was invented to go along with it.
so what? god has no mystery to him? ever read eastern orthodox
literature? it's replete with mystery theology. god is, according to
them, more mystery than he is known.
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath !
now THAT makes sense!
---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Trinity Nonsense |
14 Aug 2005 01:04:31 PM |
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On 14 Aug 2005 10:55:09 -0700, "Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Trinity Nonsense
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless.
Based on what?
To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
1)God cannot be tempted; the idea is absurd. Yet Jesus was, Matt. 4:1
Nope, Jesus wasn't tempted. satan tried to tempt Jesus, but failed.
2) God would not need to pray. Yet Jesus not only prays privately,
but fails to get what he wanted, Matt 26:39,42,44.
That's because Jesus is fully man. Yet he was fully divine also, but never
called upon his divinity, or he wouldn't have been fully man.
3) A single unified God cannot forsake itself. Yet Jesus is
forsaken,Matt. 27:46. If someone wants to argue that he is quoting
Psalm 22,fine, that Pslam also has the character it is about say that
he is less than a man, a mere worm. Would God refer to himself as a
worm?
No he isn't. It's an established prayer that he was praying.
Matthew 27:46 (New International Version)
46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[a] lama
sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"[b]
4) God is the source not the receiver of authority. Jesus said he
received authority, Matt. 28:14.
Jesus was fully man.
5) Jesus talks about God, Mark 3:35
6) Jesus said only God was good, Luke 18, 19
7) No one has ever seen God, but many saw Jesus, John 1:18
Jesus was fully man.
Ok, you don't understand. Enough of that.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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