On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:45:51 -0700, Precision wrote:

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the threat to humanity posed
by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow' disease, and many others, but I think a
case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate." -- Richard
Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church, but they were
truly religious men because of their faith in the orderliness of the
universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein
-- and why?

Dawkins' whole point is that people make decisions based on their desire
to believe that their religious teachings are true, despite lack of
evidence. They are both saying the same thing.

--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

"Precision" <precision@usenet.com> wrote:

Then I gather you're not against a belief in God as the creator of the
universe but take exception to religions that dishonor God by
committing various sins such as denying proven science, believing they
absolutely and positively have the absolute truth even if proven
otherwise, lack the humility to admit that humans who have existed for
only a blip in the infinite dimensions of time cannot possibly presume
to know all there is to know about an infinite God, and other
embarrassing observations about our human nature in mankind's infancy?

Was I even close?

Allowing for a wide variety of interpretations of the concept of 'God',
you
were, well, precise.

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

"quibbler" <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f2497afe3f9e636989b38@news.readfreenews.net...

In article <1153089421_34407@sp6iad.superfeed.net>,

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein

You're equivocating on the word "faith" here.

No I'm not. That is a judgmental statement. You cannot presume to know
whether I'm deliberately trying to mislead anyone.

presume to know anything about my motives through a simple question? Could
it possibly be that you are trying to avoid addressing the question and
implications of Einstein's beliefs in God (which are made clearer by other
quotes I have added to this topic recently by him)?

You can clearly see that
Einstein is not talking about religious Faith. Religious faith means
something entirely different than merely some kind of hunch or optimistic
guesstimate. The latter might describe the "faith" in the "orderliness
of the universe". The former is flying airplanes into buildings because
Allah promised you'd get 70 virgins.

Some might wonder if YOU are not equivocating

to come extent yourself by
avoiding the reality of Einstein's belief in a higher intelligence behind
the laws of physics when he said...

Science without religion is lame. Religion without science
is blind. -- Einstein

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable
superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are
able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. -- Einstein

The most important function of art and science is to awaken
the cosmic religious feeling and keep it alive. -- Einstein

I say THAT is the real bugaboo that keeps many an atheist awake at night.

Forget the 'Church'. Deal with the real question of whether Einstein was
right about our frail and feeble mind's limitations

perceiving "the
illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are
able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."

Einstein accepted the reality there are illimitable reaches of space and
time and recognized that a 'superior spirit' could very well exist beyond
that limitation.

On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

They're talking about different things. You seem to passionately dislike
Dawkins, despite the fact that you seem to know very little about him or
his positions on most issues.

Dislike him? As you point out, I know very little about him

or his positions
on most issues. How can is dislike him?

I was just asking if Einstein was
more correct, but I didn't frame my question to preclude someone denying it
is either "true" or "false" but agreeing with both (as some have done).

You also seem to wrongly assume that I'm
some dedicated follower of his, just because I quote him. Dawkins is
very particularly talking about religious faith and the pernicious,
enslaving effects that blind obedience to reality distorting
superstitions can have. Einstein is talking about people's best guesses
of the way the universe may work. No god is judging people based upon
this. It's not considered virtuous to blindly affirm that the universe
may or may not contain some degree of order.

There is really no virtue to objective scientific observation about the
order of the universe.

Einstein was willing to go out on a limb in quotes
such as the above, because he humbly recognized his limitations as a human
scientist.

For a so-called philosophy student, you don't seem to know jack *****
about simple distinctions like this.

You sure presume to know a lot about me, and are willing to make some
serious deductions about me, based on a simple question!

For example, you probably assume that I have abandoned all reason to blindly
support the 'Church'

or religious beliefs published by the particular
Christian faith I happen to affiliate with. And if so then you would be
patently mistaken.

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

Where is here? You've posted this to a dozen NGs.

Well, the context of 'here' happens to be every newsgroup I thought was
relevant to this question.

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?

A poster named Quibbler quoted:

"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

And I quoted:

"Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church,
but they were truly religious men because of their faith in
the orderliness of the universe." -- Albert Einstein


On faith whom do people around here agree with most -- Dawkins or
Einstein -- and why?