| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JTEM" |
| Date: |
20 Aug 2005 05:07:46 AM |
| Object: |
True Believers: The cult of Zach |
Anyone remember Zach?
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
You focus in on some kid and, assuming that he really
existed, your only hope of "winning" is if you can
establish that he has been genuinely harmed in some
way. So your "success" at bringing about change is
literally dependent on harm to a 16 y.o. boy. I'm not
saying that you're hoping that the boy is driven to
suicide, or raped, but when you make the boy your
focus then there has to be something bad happening
to the boy, or you're not focusing in on anything bad.
Now are you?
What's worse, this gee-I-hope-they-kill-him strategy
was not without risks. Without listing them all (I've
gone over many of them in various exchanges on this
topic in the past), allow me to just point out two negative
accomplishments that did result.
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison was certified abuse free by investigators.
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you. Do you have any idea how difficult it would
be to prove psychological abuse even under ideal
circumstances? And here we have teens that everyone
was calling "troubled" to begin with?
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing. After that, the "Zach" brigade learned
it's lesson. Yeah, right. Sure. Learned? Please. Mostly
the "Zach" blogs dried up, or at least the writing on the
topic grew a lot thinner. Nothing happened. That is,
as far as they were concerned. For others though, it was
(and is) business as usual. They maintain their faith.
.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
20 Aug 2005 03:28:49 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
Anyone remember Zach?
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
What the hell are you talking about?
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison was certified abuse free by investigators.
Nobody expected anything different. It's virtually impossible to prove
abuse in Tennessee unless there's something like fingers being broken
going on.
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you.
These are gay teens, not troubled. Any psychologist will tell you up
front that trying to change someone's sexual orientation will do far
more harm than good.
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
There's no lesson to be learned.
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing.
Zach himself tells us that his net activity is closely monitored by his
parents. Guess you missed that part.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
20 Aug 2005 04:37:17 PM |
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"Tim McGaughy" <teekem@ispwest.com> wrote
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
What the hell are you talking about?
Your question was answered before you asked it. Not that
this is a new experience for you...
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison was certified abuse free by investigators.
Nobody expected anything different.
Then perhaps a different strategy -- focus -- should have been
chosen, one that had a glimmer of a hope at accomplishing
something.
"Gee, high risk and no hope fo gain. Do you think we should
change our focus to something with at least a chance of
success? No? Neither do I!"
It's virtually impossible to prove abuse in Tennessee unless
there's something like fingers being broken going on.
Does the word "Duh!" mean anything to you?
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you.
These are gay teens, not troubled.
Not according to the parents who sent them to the prison.
Any psychologist will tell you up front that trying to change
someone's sexual orientation will do far more harm than
good.
Or, is likely to cause harm but not likely to cause good.
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
There's no lesson to be learned.
You're proving my point.
"Are actions accomplishing did nothing but legitimize
the man we want to stop. Having witnessed this, do you
think we'll adopt a different approach? Hell, no! That
would mean learning a lesson, which in turn would mean
admitting that we made things worse."
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing.
Zach himself tells us that his net activity is closely
monitored by his parents.
Yes. But that is in addition to the right-wing propaganda fest he's
dished out. You're not contradicting me. In fact, you're proving
my point. You saw the right-wing propaganda fest and *Still*
failed to learn a lesson here.
Idiot.
.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
21 Aug 2005 04:56:06 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Tim McGaughy" <teekem@ispwest.com> wrote
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
What the hell are you talking about?
Your question was answered before you asked it. Not that
this is a new experience for you...
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison was certified abuse free by investigators.
Nobody expected anything different.
Then perhaps a different strategy -- focus -- should have been
chosen, one that had a glimmer of a hope at accomplishing
something.
A number of things were done. Some may yet have an effect.
And I find yer idea that one should just give up on a course of action
because it might not have an effect to be deeply retarded.
"Gee, high risk and no hope fo gain. Do you think we should
change our focus to something with at least a chance of
success? No? Neither do I!"
Great, Einstein. What was your master plan?
It's virtually impossible to prove abuse in Tennessee unless
there's something like fingers being broken going on.
Does the word "Duh!" mean anything to you?
You don't have a point, Sparky. We did what we could. I don't think
anybody was really pushing for an investigation into abuse, most of the
effort went into attacking their claims to be licensed.
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you.
These are gay teens, not troubled.
Not according to the parents who sent them to the prison.
And you're a silly little twat. I say so, so it must be true.
Any psychologist will tell you up front that trying to change
someone's sexual orientation will do far more harm than
good.
Or, is likely to cause harm but not likely to cause good.
Yes. Are you conceding this point?
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
There's no lesson to be learned.
You're proving my point.
Small accomplishment, as you have no point.
"Are actions accomplishing did nothing but legitimize
the man we want to stop. Having witnessed this, do you
think we'll adopt a different approach? Hell, no! That
would mean learning a lesson, which in turn would mean
admitting that we made things worse."
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing.
Zach himself tells us that his net activity is closely
monitored by his parents.
Yes. But that is in addition to the right-wing propaganda fest he's
dished out.
Really. What right wing propaganda do you refer to, exactly?
Idiot.
Good descriptive signature. You should keep it.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
21 Aug 2005 03:18:42 PM |
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"Tim McGaughy" <teekem@ispwest.com> wrote
And I find yer idea that one should just give up on a course of action
because it might not have an effect to be deeply retarded.
Oh, ***** you. You know I'm right or you wouldn't have felt it
necessary to invent this *****. You'd address the facts as they
are, not what they need to be in order to make you out to be
something other than a frigging moron.
Focusing on this "Zach" combined high risk with your ALREADY
ADMITTED zero chance of success.
When your focus is on a kid, then you have to prove actual harm
TO THAT KID. You admitted yourself that proving psychological
harm was virtually impossible under the conditions set in
Tennessee. So that leaves physical harm. What means you're either
left hoping the kid is being raped, or you're a fucking idiot who
chose a course of action knowing that it had no hope of success.
But all the risks remained. Heck, we're reaping the fruits of the
risks right now! Thanks.
*****.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
21 Aug 2005 08:31:53 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Tim McGaughy" <teekem@ispwest.com> wrote
And I find yer idea that one should just give up on a course of action
because it might not have an effect to be deeply retarded.
Oh, ***** you.
Back atcha, boy.
You know I'm right or you wouldn't have felt it
necessary to invent this *****.
You know I'm right, or you wouldn't have devolved completely to ad hominem.
I'm leaving this discussion, cuz yer too retarded to take up any more of
my time. Bye.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
22 Aug 2005 12:47:45 AM |
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"Tim McGaughy" <teekem@ispwest.com> wrote
You know I'm right or you wouldn't have felt it
necessary to invent this *****.
You know I'm right, or you wouldn't have devolved
completely to ad hominem.
Honey, invest in a dictionary and look up "ad hominem."
I'm confident that "accurate" will not be amongst it's
listed definitions.
You weren't responding to anything I said. You did not even
come close to paraphrasing me. Nope. Instead, you invented
some nonsense out of whole cloth and attributed it to me.
Here, cupcake, I'll do something you're not capable of. I'll
back up what I say:
"Tim McGaughy" <teekem@ispwest.com> wrote:
| And I find yer idea that one should just give up on a course
| of action because it might not have an effect to be deeply
| retarded.
This isn't what I said. You're boxing with shadows here, not
replying to me.
As I pointed out there were clear risks involved -- numerous
risks -- but there was no converse potential for "good." The
chosen strategy (focusing on a kid) maximized risks while it
minumized (or even excluded) gain.
When you focus in on some kid, you have to prove some
harm being done to the kid. Well, here's what you stated
about that likelihood:
| Nobody expected anything different. It's virtually impossible
| to prove abuse in Tennessee unless there's something like
| fingers being broken going on.
So far from disagreeing with what I've said, you yourself
have endorsed it. It is (according to you) "virtually
impossible" to prove abuse. And when your focus is on the
kid you need abuse, or there's nothing for anybody to change.
"They're not harming the kid. Make them stop!"
Get it, retard?
I'm leaving this discussion,
You're a retard who was never in it.
Bye, retard.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: The Healing of a Sexually Confused Teenager |
20 Aug 2005 03:30:55 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
Anyone remember Zach?
Yes. He's a real person. His father recently spoke to the press and
defended his actions.
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
If his father sends him to one of our church's cleansing camps, he'll
go back home completely cured of his sexual confusion.
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
The wicked are often blind to the evil they spread.
You focus in on some kid and, assuming that he really
existed, your only hope of "winning" is if you can
establish that he has been genuinely harmed in some
way.
Homosexual lust is harmful, both to the victim and to his family. Just
look how many homosexuals are smitten with AIDS, herpes, hepatitis, and
other dread diseases.
So your "success" at bringing about change is
literally dependent on harm to a 16 y.o. boy. I'm not
saying that you're hoping that the boy is driven to
suicide, or raped,
He's more likely to be raped by homosexual recruiters. He probably has
been already. A lot of them target teenagers. Look at all the
pedophile priests out there.
but when you make the boy your
focus then there has to be something bad happening
to the boy, or you're not focusing in on anything bad.
Now are you?
What's worse, this gee-I-hope-they-kill-him strategy
was not without risks. Without listing them all (I've
gone over many of them in various exchanges on this
topic in the past), allow me to just point out two negative
accomplishments that did result.
I think they'll save him from long-term damage. Homosexuality is a
condition that can be cured.
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison
It's not a prison. It's a reorientation camp.
was certified abuse free by investigators.
Absolutely! Just like our church's cleansing camps for the
homosexually confused and disturbed.
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you. Do you have any idea how difficult it would
be to prove psychological abuse even under ideal
circumstances? And here we have teens that everyone
was calling "troubled" to begin with?
All homosexuals are troubled. Many if not most are posssessed by
demons. No healthy person would want to do such degrading things with
his or her body -- I mean the licking and sucking and buggering and
deep-crack rimming they typically do -- without demonic compulsion in
the picture.
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing. After that, the "Zach" brigade learned
it's lesson. Yeah, right. Sure. Learned? Please. Mostly
the "Zach" blogs dried up, or at least the writing on the
topic grew a lot thinner. Nothing happened. That is,
as far as they were concerned. For others though, it was
(and is) business as usual. They maintain their faith.
Those who keep the faith will be blessed. Those who lose it will
perish.
Praying for you,
Sister Sunshine Tanner
God's Littlest Sunbeam
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: The Healing of a Sexually Confused Teenager |
20 Aug 2005 04:46:51 PM |
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|
<Sister_Sunshine@JesusAnswers.com> wrote
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
If his father sends him to one of our church's cleansing camps, he'll
go back home completely cured of his sexual confusion.
Who gets to perform the penis inspection?
Or is that only performed if they have foreskin?
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: The Healing of a Sexually Confused Teenager |
20 Aug 2005 06:15:16 PM |
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|
On 20 Aug 2005 13:30:55 -0700,
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
JTEM wrote:
Anyone remember Zach?
Yes. He's a real person. His father recently spoke to the press and
defended his actions.
Eichmann defended his actions too. As did Stalin.
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
If his father sends him to one of our church's cleansing camps, he'll
go back home completely cured of his sexual confusion.
Now, he'll go home thinking that he's evil and suppressing who he
actually is.
Tell me, do you also "cure" left handiness? That was considered evil
as little as 50 years ago.
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
The wicked are often blind to the evil they spread.
Pot, meet kettle.
You focus in on some kid and, assuming that he really
existed, your only hope of "winning" is if you can
establish that he has been genuinely harmed in some
way.
Homosexual lust is harmful, both to the victim and to his family. Just
look how many homosexuals are smitten with AIDS, herpes, hepatitis, and
other dread diseases.
World wide, herpes and hepatitis are far more prevalent in
heterosexuals. Only in North America is the infection rate for AIDS
higher in gays, in the rest of the world it is primarily a
heterosexual disease.
Being gay doesn't cause illness, exposure to the disease causes
illness. Remember Ryan White? Became a cause celebre when he
contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion as a child and was forced out
of his school by panicked parents who didn't understand the disease.
Remember the seventies? Gonorrhea and Syphilus were epidemic in
America due to sexual mores that allowed for casual sex. When AIDS
was introduced primarily into the gay world, that same cultural
attitude caused it to spread quickly. Attitudes have changed, and the
infection rate has plummeted.
So your "success" at bringing about change is
literally dependent on harm to a 16 y.o. boy. I'm not
saying that you're hoping that the boy is driven to
suicide, or raped,
He's more likely to be raped by homosexual recruiters. He probably has
been already. A lot of them target teenagers. Look at all the
pedophile priests out there.
Name a confessed homosexual recruiter. I was never recruited, or
molested, and I knew I was bi when I was 7 years old.
but when you make the boy your
focus then there has to be something bad happening
to the boy, or you're not focusing in on anything bad.
Now are you?
What's worse, this gee-I-hope-they-kill-him strategy
was not without risks. Without listing them all (I've
gone over many of them in various exchanges on this
topic in the past), allow me to just point out two negative
accomplishments that did result.
I think they'll save him from long-term damage. Homosexuality is a
condition that can be cured.
No, it isn't. Even the founders of Operation Exodus, the largest
"ex-gay" movement in the world, admitted all they do is teach people
to lie and be ashamed of themselves. The founders, both gay men, are
now happily living together.
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison
It's not a prison. It's a reorientation camp.
Is that anything like a Soviet re-education camp? Is he free to
leave? Is he free to demand that his "treatment" cease under the
Patient's Bill of Rights?
was certified abuse free by investigators.
Absolutely! Just like our church's cleansing camps for the
homosexually confused and disturbed.
That's a frightening choice of words.
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you. Do you have any idea how difficult it would
be to prove psychological abuse even under ideal
circumstances? And here we have teens that everyone
was calling "troubled" to begin with?
All homosexuals are troubled. Many if not most are posssessed by
demons. No healthy person would want to do such degrading things with
his or her body -- I mean the licking and sucking and buggering and
deep-crack rimming they typically do -- without demonic compulsion in
the picture.
Wow, you certaininly have a a lot of graphic imagry about what we do!
Or what you think we do.
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing. After that, the "Zach" brigade learned
it's lesson. Yeah, right. Sure. Learned? Please. Mostly
the "Zach" blogs dried up, or at least the writing on the
topic grew a lot thinner. Nothing happened. That is,
as far as they were concerned. For others though, it was
(and is) business as usual. They maintain their faith.
Those who keep the faith will be blessed. Those who lose it will
perish.
Everybody dies.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "Harry F. Leopold" |
|
| Title: Re: The Healing of a Sexually Confused Teenager |
21 Aug 2005 05:09:33 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:15:16 -0500, Douglas Berry wrote
(in article <7rdfg1d5fstk2sljuc0v0r8h34auv55705@4ax.com>):
On 20 Aug 2005 13:30:55 -0700,
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
JTEM wrote:
Anyone remember Zach?
Yes. He's a real person. His father recently spoke to the press and
defended his actions.
Eichmann defended his actions too. As did Stalin.
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
If his father sends him to one of our church's cleansing camps, he'll
go back home completely cured of his sexual confusion.
Now, he'll go home thinking that he's evil and suppressing who he
actually is.
Tell me, do you also "cure" left handiness? That was considered evil
as little as 50 years ago.
Less than that long ago, Sister Mary Albertina (deSade) tried that on me back
in first grade, 1958, also she tried the same on the other 6 lefties in the
class. Overall it didn't work worth a damn, though she did break at least one
kid's hand.
--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
³That's their whole point. They put a Groucho Marx mask on their god and call
him an 'intelligent designer.' No one is supposed to notice.³- johac
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: The Healing of a Sexually Confused Teenager |
20 Aug 2005 05:51:20 PM |
|
|
On 20 Aug 2005 13:30:55 -0700, wrote:
:
If his father sends him to one of our church's cleansing camps, he'll
go back home completely cured of his sexual confusion.
:
Yes, you probably quite right there.
He will come back convinced that he should be homosexual, like most
Cat'lick priests and Nuns.
.
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
22 Aug 2005 02:48:58 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 06:07:46 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:<3OidnZ2dnZ01OoqinZ2dnQRjm96dnZ2dRVn-z52dnZ0@comcast.com>...
Anyone remember Zach?
You know, he was supposed to be a 16 y.o. boy forced
into some kind of "ex gay" therapy, and every Tom,
***** & Harry with a web page decided to write about
him endlessly? That Zach.
What's strange about the case of "Zach" is not that so
many people could blind themselves to the obvious
dangers of their actions, but that they can't even benefit
from hindsight!
You focus in on some kid and, assuming that he really
existed, your only hope of "winning" is if you can
establish that he has been genuinely harmed in some
way. So your "success" at bringing about change is
literally dependent on harm to a 16 y.o. boy. I'm not
saying that you're hoping that the boy is driven to
suicide, or raped, but when you make the boy your
focus then there has to be something bad happening
to the boy, or you're not focusing in on anything bad.
Now are you?
What's worse, this gee-I-hope-they-kill-him strategy
was not without risks. Without listing them all (I've
gone over many of them in various exchanges on this
topic in the past), allow me to just point out two negative
accomplishments that did result.
The first was that the man behind Zach's "Love In
Action" prison was certified abuse free by investigators.
Psychological abuse? Please. These are troubled teens
being sent to "Love In Action," or so all the parents will
tell you. Do you have any idea how difficult it would
be to prove psychological abuse even under ideal
circumstances? And here we have teens that everyone
was calling "troubled" to begin with?
The power of belief being what it is, nobody learned
there lesson & it was business-as-usual for the Zach
brigade...
Then it happened. "Zach" re-appeared from his "Love
In Action" prison and posted a few comments that
could only be described as a propaganda fest for the
lunatic right-wing. After that, the "Zach" brigade learned
it's lesson. Yeah, right. Sure. Learned? Please. Mostly
the "Zach" blogs dried up, or at least the writing on the
topic grew a lot thinner. Nothing happened. That is,
as far as they were concerned. For others though, it was
(and is) business as usual. They maintain their faith.
I know what you're talking about. When this first started, I felt uneasy
about it. After all, anyone could make up some story and post it to the
Internet. Everyone was putting their support behind someone who may or
may not exist. Imagine what would have happened if that had turned out to
be the case.
--
Funny Lurlean quote #45:
"I do have cousins name of Gurlean and Shirlean plus aunty's name of Earlene
and Myrlene." -- Lurlean's family is the personification of the joke, "If your
family tree does not fork, you might be a redneck."
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
24 Aug 2005 01:51:15 AM |
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"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote
I know what you're talking about. When this first started,
I felt uneasy about it. After all, anyone could make up
some story and post it to the Internet.
That was the so-obvious-no-one-could-miss-it danger.
But it was hardly limited to that.
Everyone was putting their support behind someone
who may or may not exist. Imagine what would have
happened if that had turned out to be the case.
Well, what has happened?
The psycho running the ex-gay prison was certified abuse
free, and this "Zach" character came out with a hat full
of remarks that set the lunatic right to squealing with
delight.
It's seems that things turned out pretty bad so far...
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
24 Aug 2005 08:58:01 AM |
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On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 02:51:15 -0400, "JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:<3vmdnb4k49kbi5HeRVn-rQ@comcast.com>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote
I know what you're talking about. When this first started, I felt
uneasy about it. After all, anyone could make up some story and post it
to the Internet.
That was the so-obvious-no-one-could-miss-it danger.
But it was hardly limited to that.
Everyone was putting their support behind someone who may or may not
exist. Imagine what would have happened if that had turned out to be
the case.
Well, what has happened?
The psycho running the ex-gay prison was certified abuse free, and this
"Zach" character came out with a hat full of remarks that set the
lunatic right to squealing with delight.
It's seems that things turned out pretty bad so far...
No argument here.
--
Lurlean Lie #37:
"When wives are finally recruiter [sic], their recruiters often kill off the
husband."
news:1109732370.126551.95450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
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| User: "• Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
20 Aug 2005 07:34:58 AM |
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Sunce HTEM seems to think that no harms is dbe bt these "ex-gay" fraudmeistersL
http://www.exgaywatch.com/blog/index.html
http://www.fishcantfly.com/ new video exposing the ex-gay pious fraud
http://www.exgaywatch.com/blog/archives/2005/08/fish_cant_fly_r.html
Screenings of this 83-minute documentary can range from smaller gatherings
with family and friends to more organized community efforts through
national organizations, followed by discussion.
=========================================he Advocate
August 15, 2005
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid19739.asp
The real meaning of "ex-gay"
³Reparative therapy² is based on an understanding of homosexuality that
has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions
By the American Psychiatric Association
The following statement from the APA was provided to The Advocate in
response to a request related to the story ³Brainwashed No More² in the
August 30, 2005, issue:
The term ³reparative therapy² refers to psychotherapy aimed at eliminating
homosexual desires and is used by people who do not think homosexuality is
one variation within human sexual orientation, but rather still believe
homosexuality is a mental disorder.
The most important fact about ³reparative therapy,² also sometimes known
as ³conversion² therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of
homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental
health professions.
The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association,
the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological
Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the
National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than
477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the
position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder, and thus there is no
need for a ³cure.²
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, published by
the American Psychiatric Association and defining the standard of the
field, does not include homosexuality as a mental disorder. All other
major health professional organizations have supported the American
Psychiatric Association in its declassification of homosexuality in 1973
as a mental disorder. Thus, the idea that homosexuality is a mental
disorder, or that the emergence of same-gender sexual desires among some
adolescents is in any way abnormal or mentally unhealthy, has no support
among health and mental health professional organizations.
Despite the unanimity of the health and mental health professions on the
normality of homosexuality, the idea of ³reparative therapy² has recently
been adopted by conservative organizations and aggressively promoted in
the media. Because of this aggressive promotion of ³reparative therapy,² a
number of the health and mental health professional organizations have
recently issued public statements about ³reparative therapy² as well.
The American Psychological Association, in its Resolution on Appropriate
Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation, which is also endorsed by the
National Association of School Psychologists, states: ³The American
Psychological Association opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual
youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation and
supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual
orientation, and mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to
counteract bias that is based in ignorance or unfounded beliefs about
sexual orientation.²
As these statements make clear, health and mental health professional
organizations do not support efforts to change young people¹s sexual
orientation through ³reparative therapy² and have raised serious concerns
about its potential to do harm. Many professional associations are able to
provide helpful information and local contacts to assist school
administrators, health and mental health professionals, educators,
teachers, and parents in dealing with school controversies in their
communities.
³Transformational ministry² is a term used to describe the use of religion
to eliminate homosexual desires. While ³reparative therapy² relies on
secular approaches, ³transformational ministry² takes the approach that
³freedom from homosexuality is possible through repentance and faith in
Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.² While there is some diversity within the
movement, most ³transformational ministries² adhere to a belief that
³upholds heterosexuality as God¹s creative intent for humanity, and
subsequently views homosexual _expression as outside God¹s will.²
The ³transformational ministry² movement, which began in the early 1970s,
has gained more visibility in the media recently through the efforts of
Christian publishers and conservative political organizations.
The most important fact about ³transformational ministry² is that its view
of homosexuality is not representative of the views of all people of
faith. Many deeply religious people, and a number of religious
congregations and denominations, are supportive and accepting of lesbian,
gay, and bisexual people and their right to be protected from the
discriminatory acts of others. For example, the following [religious]
organizations have endorsed passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination
Act, which would prohibit employment discrimination based on sexual
orientation:
* American Ethical Union
* American Friends Service Committee
* American Jewish Committee
* American Jewish Congress
* Church of the Brethren,
* Church Women United
* Dignity/USA
* Episcopal Church
* Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
* Hadassah, the Women¹s Zionist Organization of America
* The Interfaith Alliance
* Jewish Women International
* National Council of the Churches of Christ USA
* National Council of Jewish Women
* North Georgia United Methodist Conference
* Presbyterian Church (USA)
* Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
* Unitarian Universalist Association
* United Church of Christ
* United Methodist Church
* Women of Reform Judaism
* Young Women¹s Christian Association
Although ³transformational ministry² promotes the message that religious
faith and acceptance of gay, lesbian, and bisexual sexuality are
incompatible, that message is countered by the large number of outspoken
clergy and people of faith who promote love and acceptance.
Pax Christi,
• Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
Jesus is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: True Believers: The cult of Zach |
20 Aug 2005 04:45:33 PM |
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". Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote
Sunce HTEM seems to think that no harms is dbe bt these
"ex-gay" fraudmeistersL
You may be disagreeing with a shadow and pretending it's me, but
in reality you're agreeing with me... furthering my point.
The score thus far is:
Lunatic Right-Wing: 2
Gay Teens: 0.
So the more harm you establish, the greater the shame that a strategy
which had a chance of eliminating this harm wasn't adopted.
Get it?
The worse you make out the situation, the more shame you heap
on the people who squandered their efforts propping up the lunatics,
instead of working for change.
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