True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs


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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "jes"
Date: 26 Jul 2006 05:53:51 PM
Object: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs
In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.
.

User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 29 Jul 2006 06:32:01 AM
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:23:58 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <73elc2tu0u1nk6k8uaj9juir1lfatge8hk@4ax.com>

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:56:14 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:24:00 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <7vakc2t4g95r26dltl5oqriecbdibp6vhc@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:21:16 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:

I would object that if you can't even prove that this 'Holy Spirit' exists
in the real world, you shouldn't pretend that 'it', does.



Once you open yourself to experience the Holy Spirit, you will never
again deny it. There is no doubt, no going back.


They say that about Johnny Walker, too.
Oh, and a lobotomy.
And typhoid.



And if you haven't had a lobotomy or typhoid or been drunk on Johnny
Walker, does that make them nonexistent? or unable to cause the
effects they are known to cause?

Oh ***** me. Do I have to explain every little thing to your immature
mind?
I will say it outright:
The acquisition of the delusion that there is a "Holy Spirit" is
debilitating mental illness, that is responsible for much misery,
suffering, and death.
(And not much else.)
To peddle this toxic mind-virus is akin to pushing heroin, only *far*
more dangerous.
Is that plain enough for your childish brain?
--
.
User: "PK & AMM"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 29 Jul 2006 07:26:42 AM
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:02:01 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:23:58 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <73elc2tu0u1nk6k8uaj9juir1lfatge8hk@4ax.com>

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:56:14 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:24:00 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <7vakc2t4g95r26dltl5oqriecbdibp6vhc@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:21:16 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:

I would object that if you can't even prove that this 'Holy Spirit' exists
in the real world, you shouldn't pretend that 'it', does.



Once you open yourself to experience the Holy Spirit, you will never
again deny it. There is no doubt, no going back.


They say that about Johnny Walker, too.
Oh, and a lobotomy.
And typhoid.



And if you haven't had a lobotomy or typhoid or been drunk on Johnny
Walker, does that make them nonexistent? or unable to cause the
effects they are known to cause?


Oh ***** me. Do I have to explain every little thing to your immature
mind?
I will say it outright:
The acquisition of the delusion that there is a "Holy Spirit" is
debilitating mental illness, that is responsible for much misery,
suffering, and death.
(And not much else.)
To peddle this toxic mind-virus is akin to pushing heroin, only *far*
more dangerous.

Is that plain enough for your childish brain?

Okay.... that is plain enough for my childish brain. You are saying
the Holy Spirit does not exist, but that my sick little mind made it
up to make me feel better (or adopted that explanation from other sick
little minds about why I feel better).
--
=======
///// \\\\\
///(@)~(@)\\\
---o00-(_)-00o---
P K
.
User: "Sheikh Yapeter"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 29 Jul 2006 03:49:57 PM
"PK & AMM" <agent@patrish.com> wrote

... You are saying
the Holy Spirit does not exist

No, you are saying that it does, and now you are trying to shift the burden
of proof to the non-believers. That won't work, sonny.
.

User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 30 Jul 2006 01:11:49 PM
"PK & AMM" <agent@patrish.com> wrote in message
snip


Okay.... that is plain enough for my childish brain. You are saying
the Holy Spirit does not exist, but that my sick little mind made it
up to make me feel better (or adopted that explanation from other sick
little minds about why I feel better).

Yeah, that sounds about right.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 29 Jul 2006 07:00:48 PM
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:26:42 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <onkmc2h9u51ftfqa1j0ss09f85ukjs9ldg@4ax.com>

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:02:01 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:23:58 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <73elc2tu0u1nk6k8uaj9juir1lfatge8hk@4ax.com>

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:56:14 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:24:00 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <7vakc2t4g95r26dltl5oqriecbdibp6vhc@4ax.com>

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:21:16 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:

I would object that if you can't even prove that this 'Holy Spirit' exists
in the real world, you shouldn't pretend that 'it', does.



Once you open yourself to experience the Holy Spirit, you will never
again deny it. There is no doubt, no going back.


They say that about Johnny Walker, too.
Oh, and a lobotomy.
And typhoid.



And if you haven't had a lobotomy or typhoid or been drunk on Johnny
Walker, does that make them nonexistent? or unable to cause the
effects they are known to cause?


Oh ***** me. Do I have to explain every little thing to your immature
mind?
I will say it outright:
The acquisition of the delusion that there is a "Holy Spirit" is
debilitating mental illness, that is responsible for much misery,
suffering, and death.
(And not much else.)
To peddle this toxic mind-virus is akin to pushing heroin, only *far*
more dangerous.

Is that plain enough for your childish brain?



Okay.... that is plain enough for my childish brain. You are saying
the Holy Spirit does not exist, but that my sick little mind made it
up to make me feel better (or adopted that explanation from other sick
little minds about why I feel better).

Yes, that is precisely what I am asserting.
Now we are getting somewhere.
I thank you for a small touch of honesty, in what are otherwise
bizarrely illogical outpourings from you.
--
.



User: "Denis Loubet"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 08:35:55 PM
"jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153954431.819666.34860@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming.

I'll accept that definition for now.

I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit.

Unfortunately, to an outside observer, your opinion on this is just another
voice added to the cacophony of Christian voices all asserting what
constitutes a True Christian, and I don't think it's a coincidence that all
the voices insist that they belong in the True Christian catagory and the
other voices don't. This is because you have no objective evidence to
support any particular intepretation over any other, much less that any of
it is true. All the voices point to scriptural support, just like you're
doing, and all claim they understand the true message, just like you're
doing. There is no reason for an outside observer to accept your
interpretation over any of the others.
Besides, from this atheist's point of view, it's hard to imagine a more evil
character than the god as described in the bible. For every pleasant homily
the Jesus character offers, I can provide a litany of pettyness, jealousy,
vanity, torture, murder, and genocide supposedly personally perpetrated by
this "good" god you're talking about. As an atheist, I can only assume
you're either lying to me about the god character's goodness, or using a
definition of "good" that I'm not familiar with.

This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character.

The genocidal Old Testement character or the protection-racket New Testement
one? As far as I can tell, Christians being arrogant, petty, vengeful, and
jealous, ARE reflecting the god's character as described in the bible.

Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others.

And you, in all humility, are insisting that your view is correct and that
they are wrong. Do you see how this might be viewed as a tad hypocritical?

They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit.

I imagine that I can find some Christians that will say the exact same thing
about you. How is it that the god character's Holy Spirit delivers such
contradictory messages?

They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!!

Do I need to point out that this could apply to you? Falling short is your
judgment, is it not? You have convicted them of being wrong. You are doing
what you say others should not do.

They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power.

And you are doing it for the power. By believing you are right, you can look
down on those you believe are wrong. And you are posting it to the internet
to make sure others see that you are right. You are doing this for the sense
of power it gives you.

We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.

We should follow YOUR interpretation, because you're right and they're
wrong.

Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God.

But if someone does that, and his understanding is different from yours,
then it's somehow NOT an understanding but a "turning away from god", and
that someone has thus "fallen short", and is wrong.
Am I right?

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.

You believe that you, as a true Christian, are better off than those who
aren't.

I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.

If you can do it without appearing to be a hypocrite, you will be the first.
But you're off to a bad start.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
User: "jes"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 05:22:24 PM


Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others.


And you, in all humility, are insisting that your view is correct and that
they are wrong. Do you see how this might be viewed as a tad hypocritical?

They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit.


I imagine that I can find some Christians that will say the exact same thing
about you. How is it that the god character's Holy Spirit delivers such
contradictory messages?

They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!!


Do I need to point out that this could apply to you? Falling short is your
judgment, is it not? You have convicted them of being wrong. You are doing
what you say others should not do.

They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power.


And you are doing it for the power. By believing you are right, you can look
down on those you believe are wrong. And you are posting it to the internet
to make sure others see that you are right. You are doing this for the sense
of power it gives you.

We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.


We should follow YOUR interpretation, because you're right and they're
wrong.

Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God.


But if someone does that, and his understanding is different from yours,
then it's somehow NOT an understanding but a "turning away from god", and
that someone has thus "fallen short", and is wrong.

Am I right?

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.


You believe that you, as a true Christian, are better off than those who
aren't.

I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.


If you can do it without appearing to be a hypocrite, you will be the first.

But you're off to a bad start.

--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet

Denis:
It is with all due respect for other Christian believers that I have
pointed out that many are faltering from the Word of God. It is by no
means my intention to look down on others from the pedestal of
indignation. I am truly deeply concerned about my fellow Christian
believers who are being sidetracked and molded by extremist ideaologies
and sucked into a vortex of religio-political contention and doing it
in the name of the Christian God. I would very much simply want to
remind them that we have a duty of faith.
I have no right to set myself above others, I know where I've been and
I know how much I have been forgiven. It would be hypocrisy of the
greatest degree to look at the speck in my brothers eye when i have had
a log in my own. I appreciate your feedback and it is wholeheartedly
considered.
Jes
.
User: "Denis Loubet"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 07:11:17 PM
"jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154038944.495014.48710@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...



Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others.


And you, in all humility, are insisting that your view is correct and
that
they are wrong. Do you see how this might be viewed as a tad
hypocritical?

They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit.


I imagine that I can find some Christians that will say the exact same
thing
about you. How is it that the god character's Holy Spirit delivers such
contradictory messages?

They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!!


Do I need to point out that this could apply to you? Falling short is
your
judgment, is it not? You have convicted them of being wrong. You are
doing
what you say others should not do.

They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power.


And you are doing it for the power. By believing you are right, you can
look
down on those you believe are wrong. And you are posting it to the
internet
to make sure others see that you are right. You are doing this for the
sense
of power it gives you.

We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.


We should follow YOUR interpretation, because you're right and they're
wrong.

Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God.


But if someone does that, and his understanding is different from yours,
then it's somehow NOT an understanding but a "turning away from god", and
that someone has thus "fallen short", and is wrong.

Am I right?

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.


You believe that you, as a true Christian, are better off than those who
aren't.

I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.


If you can do it without appearing to be a hypocrite, you will be the
first.

But you're off to a bad start.

--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet


Denis:

It is with all due respect for other Christian believers that I have
pointed out that many are faltering from the Word of God.

Which means you think you know the meaning of the word of god, and the
others don't.
Ask yourself this: "Could I be wrong about that? Is it possible they have it
right and I have it wrong?"

It is by no
means my intention to look down on others from the pedestal of
indignation.

I agree. You don't seem to be indignant. Instead, it appears that you are
looking down upon them from a pedestal of smug certainty. I know that's a
bit harsh, but you apparently assume that you're right and that they're
wrong.
In your posts I see no indication that you believe you could possibly be
wrong. No indication that you have examined the possiblity that you have
fallen into the same hole you believe they have. No indication of humility.
You state your opinions as fact, and judge others according to these
"facts".
Is this your intention?

I am truly deeply concerned about my fellow Christian
believers who are being sidetracked and molded by extremist ideaologies
and sucked into a vortex of religio-political contention and doing it
in the name of the Christian God.

With every sentence you post, you build yourself up and tear others down.
It's like you can't help it. Can you not see that?
It seems as if pride is blinding you to your own foibles.

I would very much simply want to
remind them that we have a duty of faith.

You seem to have appointed yourself as teacher, and the others as students.
That's certainly convenient, but what justifies this self-appointment?

I have no right to set myself above others, I know where I've been and
I know how much I have been forgiven.

Then why do you apparently set yourself above others? Why do you always
assume a mantle of condescending infallability when discussing these issues?

It would be hypocrisy of the
greatest degree to look at the speck in my brothers eye when i have had
a log in my own.

It would seem that in regards to your own eye, you can't see the forest for
the trees. I would suggest you have a lot of logging to do.

I appreciate your feedback and it is wholeheartedly
considered.

I'm sorry if I sound overly harsh, but I'm trying to suggest that you should
examine your own presentation from an outside viewpoint. Read your own posts
as if they were from someone you didn't agree with -- ignore the content and
read for attitude -- and tell me if they don't appear condescending and
hypocritical to you.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.



User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 08:05:22 AM
"jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153954431.819666.34860@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.

That's nice, but how about keeping it out of alt.atheism?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.

User: "Mpoxsx"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 07:05:50 PM
I'm a true believer, I believe its all crap.
.

User: "The Doge of St. Louis"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 29 Jul 2006 11:14:00 PM
In article <1153954431.819666.34860@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes about Christianity, by the
noted author G.K. Chesterton (who was himself a devout Christian):
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been
found difficult and left untried."
Pretty much says it all, I think. Untried for at least 1700 years, alas.
--
<*> ObQuote: "As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression." -- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
======================================================================
<*>The_Doge of St. Louis Stage, screen, radio
http://www.pobox.com/~thedoge/ http://www.stageleft.org
.

User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 10:06:16 PM
On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1153954431.819666.34860@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others.

It cannot be both ways.
Various passages in the Christian bible make it mandatory to 'spread
the word', and infect as many others as possible.
A fundamentalist, by definition, MUST obey this.
You have not thought this through even cursorily, have you?

He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.

--
.

User: "raven1"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 06:23:30 AM
On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.

Pass the haggis, laddie!
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 06:31:47 AM
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:1h8hc2do03ir313i4f1ie9ngs21tb6if4g@4ax.com...

On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.


Pass the haggis, laddie!

Would ye fancy a wee dram to go with it?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.
User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 06:56:34 AM
Robibnikoff wrote:

"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:1h8hc2do03ir313i4f1ie9ngs21tb6if4g@4ax.com...

On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.

Pass the haggis, laddie!


Would ye fancy a wee dram to go with it?

Know what the difference is between a dead snake in the road and a dead
bagpiper in the road?
Skid marks in front of the snake.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor

A.A #1143 a=45, m=23, f=20
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.


User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 09:00:15 AM
After the aliens invaded, flibble raven1 bleemed snorg
<1h8hc2do03ir313i4f1ie9ngs21tb6if4g@4ax.com> gnorff Thu, 27 Jul 2006
07:23:30 -0400:

On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on anyone,
he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or God on
others. He simply does not see himself any better off than anyone else.


Pass the haggis, laddie!

Actually, historically speaking, the poster is right. Old line, original
fundamentalism was not a political movement. In fact, the very idea that
human government could effect moral change was blasphemous. The idea of
legislating morality was a worship of human government and power over god.
It is the only logical conclusion to the idea that humans are "fallen" and
"the world" is corrupt. All human government would have to be corrupt and
ineffective. Only the power of "god" could effect real change. Further,
the movement held that entangling religion and government led to apostasy,
the history of the RCC was held up as example. Fundamentalists were so
apolitical, many never even bothered to register to vote.
I remember my upbringing. The judgementalism was turned inward, not
outward. You were not to expect "the world" to behave better, *you were to
behave better. As my grandfather (an elder in the assembly) always said,
"Judgement begins with the house of the Lord."
I considered Fatwell (et al) to be self-aggrandizing frauds even back in
my fundie days.
The movement was co-opted and essentially has become worship of the state.
Bush is damn near worshipped as messiah. The current movement bears no
real resemblance to the original. And there actually is an argument to be
made that the current bunch are "not true fundamentalists."
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
User: "Dolf Boek"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 02:52:53 PM
On 28/7/06 12:00 AM, in article
Psqdnc3tRuxyW1XZnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@megapath.net, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:


Actually, historically speaking, the poster is right. Old line, original
fundamentalism was not a political movement. In fact, the very idea that
human government could effect moral change was blasphemous. The idea of
legislating morality was a worship of human government and power over god.

It is the only logical conclusion to the idea that humans are "fallen" and
"the world" is corrupt. All human government would have to be corrupt and
ineffective. Only the power of "god" could effect real change. Further,
the movement held that entangling religion and government led to apostasy,
the history of the RCC was held up as example. Fundamentalists were so
apolitical, many never even bothered to register to vote.

I remember my upbringing. The judgementalism was turned inward, not
outward. You were not to expect "the world" to behave better, *you were to
behave better. As my grandfather (an elder in the assembly) always said,
"Judgement begins with the house of the Lord."

I considered Fatwell (et al) to be self-aggrandizing frauds even back in
my fundie days.

The movement was co-opted and essentially has become worship of the state.
Bush is damn near worshipped as messiah. The current movement bears no
real resemblance to the original. And there actually is an argument to be
made that the current bunch are "not true fundamentalists."

That this chronological {7 x 24 x 13 = 2184 days of the 'oth cycle = 6D or 6
x 364 associated to the 'constant sequence of sun and moon' as 354 x 3 + 30
day intercalation = 1092 days x 2 = 2184 days x 49 = 6J or 294 x 364 days or
365.2425 x 293 years - Vernal Equinox Wednesday 20 March 1996 / 21 March = 1
Nisan 5756} and mathematical explanation {72J + 3(32+1)/2 ... 10(102+1)/2
....122J3W1D + 9(9©÷+1)/2 as #369 with Septet #41 centric on 13-17 September
2001 / 18 September = 1 Tishri 5762} of the Natural Law and Common Law
worldview as fidelity to norms of nature as 'the universal order established
by the Creator', is as 'State of Mind' altogether different to the
deification of Marriage as Hymenealism which singularly serves as an
universal human binding norm as circumscription for ethical, civil and
decent conduct {ie. Discriminating Norm} and the essence of the religious
values and the political manifesting civil social norm: "In this act [of
marriage] a human being makes himself into a thing, which conflicts with the
right of humanity in his own person." ([#4]) "Behold, thou art called a Jew,
and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will,
and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of
the law; And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a
light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher
of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou
therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that
preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man
should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest
idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law,
through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is
blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a
breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if
the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his
uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision
which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and
circumcision dost transgress the law?" [Romans 2:17 ¡©27 (KJV)]
Is something altogether different to the Hymeneal (Marriage) and Natural Law
interpretration of Adolf Hitler's four Nuremberg Laws introduced from 15
September 1935 as the basis for Natural Law's rule of conduct:
Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or kindred blood are
forbidden. Marriages concluded in defiance of this law are void, even if,
for the purpose of evading this law, they were concluded abroad. Proceedings
for annulment may be initiated only by the Public Prosecutor.
Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and nationals of German or
kindred blood are forbidden.
Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or kindred
blood as domestic servants.
Jews are forbidden to display the Reich and national flag or the national
colors.
According to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, homosexuality was politically
viewed as not only detrimental to natural population growth, but harmful to
the nation's strength and family life--being denounced by a Political Party
Purge in 30 June 1934 known as the 'Nacht der Langen Messer (Night of the
Long Knives).
The Roman Supreme Pontiff Pius XII, had made multiple representations and
protests to governing authorities in Germany, reminding them, in clear and
energetic language, of their duty to respect and fulfill the obligations of
the natural law itself that were confirmed by the 20 July 1933 Concordat:
"Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop,
loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to
honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my
diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my
solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will
endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it." ([#5])
The 20 July 1933 Concordant between the Roman Supreme Pontiff Pius XII and
the Nazi Party's hymeneal based, categorical imperative manifested in the
four Nuremberg Laws introduced from 15 September 1935, represents a duty to
respect and fulfill the obligations of the natural law as a claim to
Christian piety made on oath. It acts against the 'right of humanity in
their own person' as an autonomous, sovereign and common law right
substantiated by a chronological {7 x 24 x 13 = 2184 days of the 'oth cycle
= 6D or 6 x 364 associated to the 'constant sequence of sun and moon' as 354
x 3 + 30 day intercalation = 1092 days x 2 = 2184 days x 49 = 6J or 294 x
364 days or 365.2425 x 293 years - Vernal Equinox Wednesday 20 March 1996 /
21 March = 1 Nisan 5756} and mathematical explanation {72J + 3(32+1)/2 ...
10(102+1)/2 ...122J3W1D + 9(9©÷+1)/2 as #369 with Septet #41 centric on 13-17
September 2001 / 18 September = 1 Tishri 5762} of the Natural Law and Common
Law worldview described in the Gospels and Dead Sea Scrolls associated to
the ephemeral and mundane activity {Gk. Ephemera refers to the minor
transient documents of everyday life that were intended to be used and
generally expected to be discarded} of the Priests to the Temple of Yahweh.
Where the natural law moral obligations or duties employed by the priests
emulate the cosmological laws of nature--As the rule of conduct which is
prescribed to us by the Creator in the constitution of the nature with which
he has endowed us: ¡°There was in the days of Herod {son of a hero}, the king
of Judaea {the praise of the Lord; confession}, a certain priest named
Zacharias {memory of the Lord}, OF THE COURSE-EPHEMERIA OF ABIA (ABIJAH)
{the Lord is my father}: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron {a
teacher; lofty; mountain of strength}, and her name was Elisabeth {the oath,
or fullness, of God}.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and
ordinances of the Lord blameless. And they had no child, because that
Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. AND IT
CAME TO PASS, THAT WHILE HE EXECUTED THE PRIEST¡¯S OFFICE BEFORE GOD IN THE
ORDER OF HIS COURSE-EPHEMERIA {ie The ¡®oth {7 x 24 x 13 [= 6D as 2184 days
as 6 x 364 days = 354 x 3 + 30 as 1092 days x 2] x 49 years = 6J as 294 x
364 or 293 x 365.2425 days} cycle of these 24 Priestly Divisions}, ACCORDING
TO THE CUSTOM OF THE PRIEST¡¯S OFFICE, HIS LOT was to burn incense when he
went into the temple of the Lord.¡± [Luke 1:5-9]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: Enough of the minutia. Let's get back to the
topic and issue Stephen [#68 - Coinciding with Nature/ Complying With
Heaven]
Catholic Inquisitor: Yeah, right. That's new for you. [#68 - Coinciding with
Nature/ Complying With Heaven]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: Why do you continue to shamelessly lie through your
teeth, and speak out of both sides of your mouth? You posted it to claim
that Adventists misrepresent Catholicism with misquotes, and by the numerous
quotes from the Catholic Church claiming to have changed the Sabbath, what
is really meant is that the Apostles changed it, and "consecrated Sunday"
and "instituted Sunday observance". Your words! [#54 - Culturing
Perspectives/ Cultivation of Intuition]
Catholic Inquisitor: Yes, it is. To deliberately quote things out of context
is not honest. To selectively use quotes known to be incorrect to pretend
that the incorrect quotes are the official teaching is not honest. [#43 -
Absolute Negation/ It's Universal Application]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: When the Catholic Church says that it instituted
Sunday observance, they mean that the Apostles did so. We believe that the
Apostles were the first leaders of our Church, and therefore saying "the
Catholic Church began Sunday observance" and "the Apostles began Sunday
observance" is exactly the same thing - to us.
While Adventists might not agree that the Apostles did this, they should try
to see it from our perspective. We believe the Apostles did so, we believe
the Apostles were the first leaders of the Catholic Church, and so
logically, we can attribute Sunday observance to the Catholic Church. The
dropping of circumcision [Acts 15] and the writing of the New Testament
would fall into the same category, to give examples of things you do believe
the Apostles did. [#40 - Reversal/ Avoiding Activity]
Catholic Inquisitor: Nope, you made it an issue, so it's an issue. [#25 -
What's behind it all?/ Imaging the Mysterious]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: Where is the proof, or any evidence that the
Apostles ever did so, as you claim? Where, when, why and how did they do so?
Where did anyone record or write about this in the first couple of
centuries? [#23 - Constancy of Guiding Concepts/ Emptiness & Non-Existence]
Catholic Inquisitor: I don't know where they were at the time they wrote.
But their writings are there for all to see. They kept Sunday. [#32 -
Natural Guide/ Virtue of Holiness]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: Where did anyone prior to Trent in the 1550's even
claim such? [#64 - Dealing with the Small/ Mind the Insignificant]
Catholic Inquisitor: All over the place. Go and follow the links at
http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/sabbath.html if you're really
interested in finding any evidence of this. I doubt you are. [#32 - Natural
Guide/ Virtue of Holiness]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: Liar, Liar, Jesuit pants on fire... I myself
already said quite plainly in this thread, in several different ways and
several times now that I do acknowledge and accept that Rome claims and
teachesthis, but their claim is false, their teaching is a lie, and without
merit.
Being a liar, here's something you can't provide Stephen, proof: There's
more, but this is from 4 different posts, all in this thread on Sunday July
23rd, before your lying expose. [#76 - Strength's Warning Signs/ Revealers
of Virtue]
Catholic Inquisitor: Your Jesuit tactics have been exposed. That is enough.
If you're not willing to look at evidence when it's presented to you, I'm
not interested. [#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War]
Counter-Cult Evangelist: You are lying again. I already posted to you I
acknowledged what you posted. I accept that Rome also teaches that the
Apostles changed the Sabbath, I just don't happen to believe it's true, or
all that Rome teaches about this.
Now where's your evidence to prove your Vatican teaching isn't a lie? [#46 -
Guiding Contentment/ Moderation of Desire]
Catholic Inquisitor: You ignored it each and every time I posted it. I don't
see the point in wasting my time with it again. You'll just ignore it again.
You have a link to follow it up with, if you choose to. Your Jesuit tactics
have been exposed. Those who were interested and open minded saw the
evidence. You're not going to change, so tracking it down now won't change
anything for you. You'll just ignore it and lie about it again. [#41 -
Playing with Reversal/ Sameness in Difference]
--
- dolf
- <http://www.sybilline.bigpondhosting.com>
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 03:20:14 PM
After the aliens invaded, flibble Dolf Boek bleemed snorg
<C0EF5536.B735Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:52:53 +0000olfboek@hotmail.com> gnorff
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:52:53 +0000:
<snip>
Does the nurse know you're playing on the computer again?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "raven1"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 04:22:53 PM
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:52:53 GMT, Dolf Boek <dolfboek@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<snip>
What on Earth are you babbling about?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.




User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 12:47:52 AM
On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than anyone else.

Whether or not that makes them "True" Christian, that quality alone
will make Christianity more respectable to non-Christians.

I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.

It's your religion, do you best to keep Christianity in good standing.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 2 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2569 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
-----
Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke is such a racist:
http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
-----
newsgroups Yang promises not to revenge post
in response to Sound-of-Trumpet's *****:
rec.art.scifi.written
sci.archaeology
soc.history.what-if
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 09:34:00 PM
On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God

What "word of god", moron?
Until you demonstrate its existence outside your deluded fantasies you
have nothing to say about it.
[rest of this silliness snipped]
.

User: "Dolf Boek"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 01:02:44 AM
The Roman Supreme Pontiff Pius XII, had made multiple representations and
protests to governing authorities in Germany, reminding them, in clear and
energetic language, of their duty to respect and fulfill the obligations of
the natural law itself that were confirmed by the 20 July 1933 Concordat:
"Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop,
loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to
honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my
diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my
solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will
endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it." ([Article
16 proscribing an ecclesiastical oath -- Concordat Between the Holy See &
the German Reich 20 July 1933])
The 20 July 1933 Concordant between the Roman Supreme Pontiff Pius XII and
the Nazi Party's hymeneal based, categorical imperative manifested in the
four Nuremberg Laws introduced from 15 September 1935, represents a duty to
respect and fulfill the obligations of the natural law as a claim to
Christian piety made on oath. It acts against the 'right of humanity in
their own person' as an autonomous, sovereign and common law right
substantiated by a chronological {7 x 24 x 13 = 2184 days of the 'oth cycle
= 6D or 6 x 364 associated to the 'constant sequence of sun and moon' as 354
x 3 + 30 day intercalation = 1092 days x 2 = 2184 days x 49 = 6J or 294 x
364 days or 365.2425 x 293 years - Vernal Equinox Wednesday 20 March 1996 /
21 March = 1 Nisan 5756} and mathematical explanation {72J + 3(32+1)/2 ...
10(102+1)/2 ...122J3W1D + 9(9©÷+1)/2 as #369 with Septet #41 centric on 13-17
September 2001 / 18 September = 1 Tishri 5762} of the Natural Law and Common
Law worldview described in the Gospels and Dead Sea Scrolls associated to
the ephemeral and mundane activity {Gk. Ephemera refers to the minor
transient documents of everyday life that were intended to be used and
generally expected to be discarded} of the Priests to the Temple of Yahweh.
Where the natural law moral obligations or duties employed by the priests
emulate the cosmological laws of nature--As the rule of conduct which is
prescribed to us by the Creator in the constitution of the nature with which
he has endowed us: ¡°There was in the days of Herod {son of a hero}, the king
of Judaea {the praise of the Lord; confession}, a certain priest named
Zacharias {memory of the Lord}, OF THE COURSE-EPHEMERIA OF ABIA (ABIJAH)
{the Lord is my father}: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron {a
teacher; lofty; mountain of strength}, and her name was Elisabeth {the oath,
or fullness, of God}.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and
ordinances of the Lord blameless. And they had no child, because that
Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years. AND IT
CAME TO PASS, THAT WHILE HE EXECUTED THE PRIEST¡¯S OFFICE BEFORE GOD IN THE
ORDER OF HIS COURSE-EPHEMERIA {ie The ¡®oth {7 x 24 x 13 [= 6D as 2184 days
as 6 x 364 days = 354 x 3 + 30 as 1092 days x 2] x 49 years = 6J as 294 x
364 or 293 x 365.2425 days} cycle of these 24 Priestly Divisions}, ACCORDING
TO THE CUSTOM OF THE PRIEST¡¯S OFFICE, HIS LOT was to burn incense when he
went into the temple of the Lord.¡± [Luke 1:5-9]
--
- dolf
- <http://www.sybilline.bigpondhosting.com>
On 27/7/06 8:53 AM, in article
1153954431.819666.34860@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "jes"
<jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.

.

User: "Scott Richter"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 08:31:13 PM
jes <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or God
on others.

Do I hear bagpipes...?

I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of view.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians don't agree with this
point of view, through their actions if not their words. Hence you need
to consider whether this really does represent the reality of
fundamentalism. It certainly doesn't look it from here; in my experience
fundamentalism is a virulent contagion that implicitly (and, usually,
explicitly) requires its members to proselytize, and to divide the world
into believers and infidels.
.
User: "PK & AMM"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 28 Jul 2006 10:26:14 AM
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:31:13 -0700,
(Scott
Richter) wrote:

jes <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or God
on others.


Do I hear bagpipes...?


I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of view.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians don't agree with this
point of view, through their actions if not their words. Hence you need
to consider whether this really does represent the reality of
fundamentalism. It certainly doesn't look it from here; in my experience
fundamentalism is a virulent contagion that implicitly (and, usually,
explicitly) requires its members to proselytize, and to divide the world
into believers and infidels.

The members don't do the dividing. It is a state-of-being.... either
you believe or you don't. That is not a putdown to non-believers (or
beleivers), just a statement of fact.
--
=======
///// \\\\\
///(@)~(@)\\\
---o00-(_)-00o---
P K
.

User: "jes"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 05:00:13 PM
Scott Richter wrote:

jes <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:

A true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or God
on others.


Do I hear bagpipes...?


I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of view.


Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians don't agree with this
point of view, through their actions if not their words. Hence you need
to consider whether this really does represent the reality of
fundamentalism. It certainly doesn't look it from here; in my experience
fundamentalism is a virulent contagion that implicitly (and, usually,
explicitly) requires its members to proselytize, and to divide the world
into believers and infidels.

You are correct. Many Christians do not agree with this point of view
and it does a great disservice to those who really want to see the good
in Christianity or at least would like see a tolerable Christianity.
Many Fundamentalist Christians (in the religio-political sense) are
more interested in activist agendas and political power than matters of
basic Scriptural faith.
.


User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 27 Jul 2006 12:35:42 AM
jes wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist
(Christian) as someone who believes in some of
the fundamental aspects of Scripture: creation, sin,
redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming.

I never met a bible thumper who couldn't tell me what
"Real" bible thumpers are supposed to think...
.

User: "Neil Kelsey"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 06:05:11 PM
jes wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.

Why are you telling this to atheists?

Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.

You guys sure spend a lot of time arguing about what a "true believer"
is.

I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.

You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
.
User: "jes"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 06:50:19 PM
Neil Kelsey wrote:

jes wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.


Why are you telling this to atheists?

I dont always agree with what athiests say or believe but im always
interested in what they say and believe. Sometimes they are right more
often than what many Christians give them credit for.


Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.


You guys sure spend a lot of time arguing about what a "true believer"
is.

Unfortunately your right, Christians sometimes seem to be the most
forgetful and misguided people on the planet when it comes to God and
His Word. There is much arguing because there is little faith and much
misunderstanding. I hope this can change.


I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.


You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.

I appreciate your thoughts!
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 26 Jul 2006 09:35:02 PM
On 26 Jul 2006 16:50:19 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:


Neil Kelsey wrote:

jes wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.


Why are you telling this to atheists?


I dont always agree with what athiests say or believe but im always
interested in what they say and believe. Sometimes they are right more
often than what many Christians give them credit for.

How does t hat answer his question, moron?
.
User: "john w"

Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs 29 Jul 2006 01:15:09 PM
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:35:02 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author

On 26 Jul 2006 16:50:19 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:


Neil Kelsey wrote:

jes wrote:

In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.


Why are you telling this to atheists?


I dont always agree with what athiests say or believe but im always
interested in what they say and believe. Sometimes they are right more
often than what many Christians give them credit for.


How does t hat answer his question, moron?

I understood him. Why didn't YOU?
:-)
.





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