Religions > Atheism > True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"jes" |
| Date: |
26 Jul 2006 05:53:51 PM |
| Object: |
True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:14:35 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 16:50:19 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
Neil Kelsey wrote:
jes wrote:
In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.
Why are you telling this to atheists?
I dont always agree with what athiests say or believe but im always
interested in what they say and believe. Sometimes they are right more
often than what many Christians give them credit for.
Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
You guys sure spend a lot of time arguing about what a "true believer"
is.
Unfortunately your right, Christians sometimes seem to be the most
forgetful and misguided people on the planet when it comes to God and
His Word. There is much arguing because there is little faith and much
misunderstanding. I hope this can change.
Then again, there are also many who masquerade as Christians who don't
even have the basics down.
Jesus and Peter and Paul warned us about that and them, and told us to
weed them out!
Part of the arguing is trying to come to terms with whether
disagreements are minor or significant.
And if you read the Bible in some depth, arguing was recorded on
numerous occasions in the Bible.
What would you call Jesus' sharp remark to Peter about, "Get behind
me, SATAN!" if not an argument?
Several disciples (apostles) came to Jesus one day and asked rather
arrogantly, "we've been discussing amongst ourselves who will sit on
your right hand when we get to heaven? Will it be ME? or Peter? or
perhaps Andrew?"
Jesus rebuked the disciple. "The one who would be first in HEAVEN must
be LEAST on earth!"
He also said,
"Do NOT go to a feast and take a seat at the head table, where a
servant may come with word from the Master of the house that you must
move and take a seat at the table by the door.
INSTEAD, take a seat at the table next to the exit door, and have the
Master send the servant to GET you and seat you at the head table!"
john w
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
I appreciate your thoughts!
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
26 Jul 2006 09:34:25 PM |
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On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
jes wrote:
In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.
Why are you telling this to atheists?
Because he's an idiot.
.
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| User: "PK & AMM" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 AM |
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On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
--
=======
///// \\\\\
///(@)~(@)\\\
---o00-(_)-00o---
P K
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 06:25:16 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <bkblc25oidh5gsobl610joprbgojah6lac@4ax.com>
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
How positively sociopathic your mind is.
It muyst be awful to be trapped in such a nasty little thing.
No wonder you escape to a juvenile fantasy-land.
Reality must really suck, being such a disfunctional cacovore.
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
It explains a lot bout those who are as stupid to think that there is
no altruism without a comforting but false puerile delusion,
certainly.
An awful lot.
They are mentally crippled.
--
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 06:26:37 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:27:55 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4ivvdfF5k39lU1@individual.net>
"PK & AMM" <agent@patrish.com> wrote in message
snip
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
I hate to say what that says about you. Why do you require a carrot on a
stick to be a good person? If there's no payoff in the "afterlife", you
feel entitled to behave like a selfish *****?
That's pathetic.
Yes, it is.
And scary, too.
With reality, he is a *self-admitted* moral monster.
--
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:16:26 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
Well put.
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 07:02:37 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:16:26 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@qwest.net>
wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
Well put.
Stupidly put when cross-posting to an atheist newsgroup - but then you
morons don't even care.
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:18:19 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
Well said.
Too many point to the "threat of hell", and totally IGNORE the promise
of Heaven!
As well as LOTS of fun in this life!
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
.
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 02:27:01 PM |
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john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
Well said.
Too many point to the "threat of hell", and totally IGNORE the promise
of Heaven!
Yeah, that whole "believe or burn" salvation by duress is really great.
Damn good thing neither heaven or hell are factual places. Mighty good
thing that the after life is a bunch of ***** too.
As well as LOTS of fun in this life!
Yeah, your one shot in this universe. Why waste it dreaming of
something that's never going to happen?
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 a=45, m=23, f=20
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:26:31 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:51:22 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
It's an excuse not a reason.
Not true.
You as an adult go to the wall switch when it grows dark BECAUSE YEARS
of experience have taught you that when you flip that switch, the
lights come on. After YEARS of good experiences, you have FAITH that
that switch will CONTINUE to turn the lights on when you need them.
See? YOu have FAITH!!
After YEARS of successful interaction with God (answered prayers,
miraculous events, divine, unexplained healings), we have FAITH that
such interactions with God will CONTINUE to be positive and fruitful.
You try to turn the complete lack of a
reason into a virtue but it fools nobody but yourself.
Funny stuff! Do you write your own material?
Your "quip" does not explain the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of happy,
satisfied, miracle-experiencing, fulfilled Christians in the world
today!
If you think that only ONE person in this world believes in God and in
His Christ, YOU are fooling yourself!
;-)
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
Don't be so fucking stupid
Same to you!
And you MIGHT just practice some TOLERANCE! You want Christians to!
Hypocrite!
Gee, whiz! Think how DULL the world would be with 3 or 4 or 5 BILLION
JUST EXACTLY LIKE you!
- twice over in that sentence. But thank
you for telling us how amoral you are that you need a threat/reward to
make you behave decently towards others.
Oh, come now! That argument is so old, it's moldy!
Do you mean to tell us that if the speed limit was not MARKED " 60
MPH", that you wouldn't drive 80 MPH?
Do you mean that when it's 3 AM and you are the only one on the street
in your car for MILES, that you don't look in all 4 directions and
then drive through that red light, HOPING a cop isn't hiding, waiting
for you?
You are a LIAR!
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
Yet another ignorant lying theists amateur-psychologising his own
strawmen in order to come up with more nastiness.
Hmmmmmm. Funny! I haven't read any nastiness from him! Only stuff
about VALUES and RIGHT and WRONG!
come to think of it, that "values" stuff IS NASTY!
I wonder-- in the long run-- who contributes more? The Christians who
keep the charities afloat, or the atheists, who don't care (and have
no reason to care).
snip
.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 02:25:54 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:26:31 -0700, in alt.atheism
john w <wjohn1134@qwest.net> wrote in
<nj9nc2drsu4dliafevek6fg3rae4qlib9n@4ax.com>:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:51:22 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
It's an excuse not a reason.
Not true.
You as an adult go to the wall switch when it grows dark BECAUSE YEARS
of experience have taught you that when you flip that switch, the
lights come on. After YEARS of good experiences, you have FAITH that
that switch will CONTINUE to turn the lights on when you need them.
See? YOu have FAITH!!
What nonsense. The two meanings of the word are not related in the way
you dishonestly try to make them be related.
After YEARS of successful interaction with God (answered prayers,
miraculous events, divine, unexplained healings), we have FAITH that
such interactions with God will CONTINUE to be positive and fruitful.
Where's the evidence. I can show you how electricity works, but you have
nothing to support your claims about God. By the way, if God is so
powerful, why does He let evil flourish? Maybe God is the Devil.
....
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 07:46:27 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:26:31 -0700, john w <wjohn1134@qwest.net>
wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:51:22 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
It's an excuse not a reason.
Not true.
Liar. You have no evidene, no proof or anything like that.
You only believe it because you were brainwashed as a child.
You as an adult go to the wall switch when it grows dark BECAUSE YEARS
of experience have taught you that when you flip that switch, the
lights come on. After YEARS of good experiences, you have FAITH that
that switch will CONTINUE to turn the lights on when you need them.
Liar. That is not faith but a reasoned expectation based on a lifetime
experience of it happening. What is known as evidene. A little thing
you don't have for the god you call "God".
You know you are equivocating, which is just plain dishonest.
See? YOu have FAITH!!
Liar.
After YEARS of successful interaction with God (answered prayers,
miraculous events, divine, unexplained healings), we have FAITH that
such interactions with God will CONTINUE to be positive and fruitful.
Liar. You interpret what happens based on your presuppositions about
it.
You try to turn the complete lack of a
reason into a virtue but it fools nobody but yourself.
Funny stuff! Do you write your own material?
Deliberate nastiness as an ex cuse to avoid addressing the issue.
Your "quip" does not explain the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of happy,
satisfied, miracle-experiencing, fulfilled Christians in the world
today!
What "quip", liar?
And their happiness is that of the addict.
If you think that only ONE person in this world believes in God and in
His Christ, YOU are fooling yourself!
Where did I say that, idiot?
;-)
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
Don't be so fucking stupid
Same to you!
Prove there is an afterlife.
And you MIGHT just practice some TOLERANCE! You want Christians to!
You might practice both sense and tolerance to the less deluded.
Hypocrite!
Liar.
Gee, whiz! Think how DULL the world would be with 3 or 4 or 5 BILLION
JUST EXACTLY LIKE you!
More deliberate nastiness.
- twice over in that sentence. But thank
you for telling us how amoral you are that you need a threat/reward to
make you behave decently towards others.
Oh, come now! That argument is so old, it's moldy!
Liar.
Do you mean to tell us that if the speed limit was not MARKED " 60
MPH", that you wouldn't drive 80 MPH?
Idiot.
Do you mean that when it's 3 AM and you are the only one on the street
in your car for MILES, that you don't look in all 4 directions and
then drive through that red light, HOPING a cop isn't hiding, waiting
for you?
Attacking your own strawman, liar.
You are a LIAR!
You invent a strawman to attack and then call me a liar?
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
Yet another ignorant lying theists amateur-psychologising his own
strawmen in order to come up with more nastiness.
Hmmmmmm. Funny! I haven't read any nastiness from him! Only stuff
about VALUES and RIGHT and WRONG!
Liar.
come to think of it, that "values" stuff IS NASTY!
Your values are.
I wonder-- in the long run-- who contributes more? The Christians who
keep the charities afloat, or the atheists, who don't care (and have
no reason to care).
Liar. Several times over in that sentence.
snip
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| User: "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 02:36:56 PM |
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john w wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:51:22 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:44:21 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
Not necessarily, although faith is so simple a child can believe.
It's an excuse not a reason.
Not true.
You as an adult go to the wall switch when it grows dark BECAUSE YEARS
of experience have taught you that when you flip that switch, the
lights come on. After YEARS of good experiences, you have FAITH that
that switch will CONTINUE to turn the lights on when you need them.
See? YOu have FAITH!!
Nope, objective evidence. Light switch, light bulb, wires, paid
electric bill. Factual, testable, verifiable and falsifiable objective
evidence that when I throw that switch, the light comes on. Falsifiable
by my not paying the bill, or the bulb being burned out.
After YEARS of successful interaction with God (answered prayers,
miraculous events, divine, unexplained healings), we have FAITH that
such interactions with God will CONTINUE to be positive and fruitful.
Yeah, too bad you have nothing in the way of objective evidence to prove
your point. Funny how that works out.
You try to turn the complete lack of a
reason into a virtue but it fools nobody but yourself.
Funny stuff! Do you write your own material?
Your "quip" does not explain the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of happy,
satisfied, miracle-experiencing, fulfilled Christians in the world
today!
Hundreds of millions of deluded wishful thinking mush heads I believe is
the correct term.
If you think that only ONE person in this world believes in God and in
His Christ, YOU are fooling yourself!
Yeah, to bad you are still the minority though. Wonder why that is?
;-)
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
Don't be so fucking stupid
Same to you!
And you MIGHT just practice some TOLERANCE! You want Christians to!
Hypocrite!
Gee, whiz! Think how DULL the world would be with 3 or 4 or 5 BILLION
JUST EXACTLY LIKE you!
Yeah, gosh, just imagine.
No middle east conflict over competing mythologies.
No clinics being fire bombed over differing view points.
No special interest trying to have laws passed on who someone else can love.
No twits trying to force their version of morality down everyones throats.
Gosh, what a screwed up world that would be.
- twice over in that sentence. But thank
you for telling us how amoral you are that you need a threat/reward to
make you behave decently towards others.
Oh, come now! That argument is so old, it's moldy!
Do you mean to tell us that if the speed limit was not MARKED " 60
MPH", that you wouldn't drive 80 MPH?
I fact, that is the case. And I do so in the right lane too, just as
the law says.
Wow, no higher power needed for that.
Do you mean that when it's 3 AM and you are the only one on the street
in your car for MILES, that you don't look in all 4 directions and
then drive through that red light, HOPING a cop isn't hiding, waiting
for you?
Yup. Its the law. Don't need no god to help me obey the law.
You are a LIAR!
You assume to much.
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
Yet another ignorant lying theists amateur-psychologising his own
strawmen in order to come up with more nastiness.
Hmmmmmm. Funny! I haven't read any nastiness from him! Only stuff
about VALUES and RIGHT and WRONG!
come to think of it, that "values" stuff IS NASTY!
I wonder-- in the long run-- who contributes more? The Christians who
keep the charities afloat, or the atheists, who don't care (and have
no reason to care).
Gee, and other then posting your noise on newsgroups, how many atheists
do you actually know.
BTW, when did the Red Cross become a "faith based charity"?
Oh, that's right, IT ISN'T!
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
A.A #1143 a=45, m=23, f=20
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:27:57 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:27:55 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
"PK & AMM" <agent@patrish.com> wrote in message
snip
Sometimes I imagine there is no afterlife.... and if not, there is no
reason to be anything other than selfish.
hmmmm... maybe that explains something about some people.....
I hate to say what that says about you. Why do you require a carrot on a
stick to be a good person?
We all do, to some extent. You're just not honest enough to admit it!
Don't tell me or anyone else that the Speed Limit signs that say "60
MPH" don't stop you from driving 80 MPH!
And don't tell me you don't drive 80 MPH ANYWAY if you think no one's
looking!
but, you KNEW that!
;-)
If there's no payoff in the "afterlife", you
feel entitled to behave like a selfish *****?
That's pathetic.
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:17:14 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:54:51 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:17:16 -0500, PK & AMM <agent@patrish.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1jakc29c8j44b7777suhn9ijsj8emolu20@4ax.com>
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
Perfectly nice isn't the criteria for eternity with God.
No, an infantile imagination is required.
It's amazing, to quote Paul Harvey, how some live so many years on
this earth and NEVER manage to find anyone to worship but themselves!
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:09:00 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 16:05:11 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
jes wrote:
In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love.
Why are you telling this to atheists?
Who knows? there might just be a Christian or two lurking in here!
;-)
Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
You guys sure spend a lot of time arguing about what a "true believer"
is.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.
You can be a perfectly nice person without clinging to the bible, and
acquire a little common sense in the process.
.
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
26 Jul 2006 11:38:03 PM |
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jes:
...A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I admit that this would at least be the kind of christian one could
tolerate... because she would tolerate one just as well.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: True Christian Fundamentalists do not Impose their Beliefs |
29 Jul 2006 01:07:41 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On 26 Jul 2006 15:53:51 -0700, "jes" <jxsias@hotmail.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
In a previous posting I described a fundamentalist (Christian) as
someone who believes in some of the fundamental aspects of Scripture:
creation, sin, redemption, the gospel and Christ's second coming. I
realize that there are different theological arguments in regards to
each of these fundamental beliefs. However, I believe that the most
fundamental and basic belief of goodness, is often overlooked and
neglected; buried under argument after argument and criticism after
criticism. The Word of God is all about goodness; the goodness of God
working through man through His Spirit. This is where many proclaimed
Christians are faltering. They have failed to recognize that their
lives should reflect God goodness and God's character. Sadly many
Christians have gotten caught up in being moral authorities (the moral
police) exercising a spirit of intolerance and/or arrogant
self-righteousness and resort to impose and force their "better than
thou" views on others. They have turned their hearts away from God and
as a result they are losing their ability to share the gospel with the
aid of God's Holy Spirit. They have chosen to take it upon themselves
to do the conviction and judging and how they fall short!! They are
willing to sacrifice God's goodness for power. We should do ourselves a
favor and get back to the basics and the fundamentals of goodness and
love. Study the Word of God and let it pierce OUR OWN hearts! Then can
we better understand how to share with others the goodness of God. A
true fundamental Christian believer does not impose his belief on
anyone, he does not have the need or desire to force others to God or
God on others. He simply does not see himself any better off than
anyone else.
I realize that there are those who do not agree with this point of
view. Your feedback is welcome. This is not intended to criticize those
who do not hold Biblical beliefs or to impose religion on anyone.
Hopefully I can do my part to clarify what has been happening to the
fundamental Christianity to the best of my knowledge and ability.
Well said!
I discovered this truth years ago, and shared it during my seminary
time. I was talking with a professor between classes, and I said
something like, " I am afraid too many Christians do the Mike Warnke
thing, where they beat others to a pulp with a 25 lb Scofield Bible
and then pry their mouths open to shove it down the throat sideways!"
The prof agreed. "Do you have a solution?" he asked me. (a pop quiz)
I said, "in my studies, I find Paul makes an excellent-- if brief --
point. Paul said, "ALWAYS be ready with an ANSWER for the hope that
is within you."
The word "answer" that Paul uses here suggests that someone has asked
a question about my faith. That "opened door" is implicit permission
for me to expound.
Before I get that question, that implicit/explicit permission, I can
assume that I am NOT "welcome' to expound, that the person(s) I am
with is not necessarily interested in my views.
Certainly seek every "opportunity" to present the gospel; both "in
season" and "not in season." But don't force it.
One of the things I learned in several evangelism courses was to not
"leave the other person with a bad taste in their mouths" regarding
"pushy, arrogant" Christians.
If you can't gently lead the person to a relationship with our Lord,
at LEAST leave the door open for the next person.
Remember, one plants, one prunes, another waters, someone else weeds,
and then the Lord reaps the harvest in His good time.
Be a planter, be a prune, be a waterer, be a weeder. Do not expect to
always be there for the harvest!
;-)
.
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