Truthiness



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Fred Stone"
Date: 02 May 2006 08:32:56 AM
Object: Truthiness
http://wuzzadem.typepad.com/wuz/2006/05/stephen_colbert.html
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Master of Orion 3 lives!
Patch 1.2.5 - http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/patch071803.html
Strawberry Mod - http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=142
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
.

User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Truthiness 03 May 2006 10:58:59 AM
"Craig Pennington" <cpenning@milo.org> wrote in
news:dsumi3-lng.ln1@nazg.milo.org:

johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
[snip]

These dinners and 'roasts' happen all the time. The speakers always
take jabs at the big shots present. I really can't understand why the
righties are so upset. This wasn't even a real news story until all
of the righties started pissing and moaning about it.


Anger is the proper response -- that was not a good natured roast type
routine. It was a very direct criticism using satire. And it was a
criticism not just of the administration, but of the WH press corps as
well. And it was brilliant, IMO.

Brilliant in the sense that most schizophrenic delusions seem more real
than mere mundane reality.
In the real world the WH press corps aren't lapdogs. They just aren't
insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and
Chimpy McHitlerburton characterizations.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Master of Orion 3 lives!
Patch 1.2.5 - http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/patch071803.html
Strawberry Mod - http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=142
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
.
User: "G-Ride"

Title: Re: Truthiness 03 May 2006 01:34:51 PM
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97B883C174B64fstone69@66.150.105.47...

"Craig Pennington" <cpenning@milo.org> wrote in
news:dsumi3-lng.ln1@nazg.milo.org:

johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
[snip]

These dinners and 'roasts' happen all the time. The speakers always
take jabs at the big shots present. I really can't understand why the
righties are so upset. This wasn't even a real news story until all
of the righties started pissing and moaning about it.


Anger is the proper response -- that was not a good natured roast type
routine. It was a very direct criticism using satire. And it was a
criticism not just of the administration, but of the WH press corps as
well. And it was brilliant, IMO.


Brilliant in the sense that most schizophrenic delusions seem more real
than mere mundane reality.

In the real world the WH press corps aren't lapdogs. They just aren't
insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and
Chimpy McHitlerburton characterizations.

I guess Fred doesn't believe in his imaginary "liberal" media any longer.
--
Aloha, G-Ride
"Birds fall from the window ledge above mine.
Then they flap their wings at the last second."
.
User: "Kate "

Title: Re: Truthiness 03 May 2006 08:31:02 PM
On Wed, 3 May 2006 08:34:51 -1000, "G-Ride"
<gride42nolikeythespam@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97B883C174B64fstone69@66.150.105.47...

"Craig Pennington" <cpenning@milo.org> wrote in
news:dsumi3-lng.ln1@nazg.milo.org:

johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
[snip]

These dinners and 'roasts' happen all the time. The speakers always
take jabs at the big shots present. I really can't understand why the
righties are so upset. This wasn't even a real news story until all
of the righties started pissing and moaning about it.


Anger is the proper response -- that was not a good natured roast type
routine. It was a very direct criticism using satire. And it was a
criticism not just of the administration, but of the WH press corps as
well. And it was brilliant, IMO.


Brilliant in the sense that most schizophrenic delusions seem more real
than mere mundane reality.

In the real world the WH press corps aren't lapdogs. They just aren't
insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and
Chimpy McHitlerburton characterizations.



I guess Fred doesn't believe in his imaginary "liberal" media any longer.

Oh, didn't he tell you, he's a fallible human.
which is code for hypocrit.
.


User: "Nick J."

Title: Re: Truthiness 04 May 2006 12:49:33 AM
Fred Stone wrote:

"Craig Pennington" <cpenning@milo.org> wrote in
news:dsumi3-lng.ln1@nazg.milo.org:

johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
[snip]

These dinners and 'roasts' happen all the time. The speakers always
take jabs at the big shots present. I really can't understand why the
righties are so upset. This wasn't even a real news story until all
of the righties started pissing and moaning about it.


Anger is the proper response -- that was not a good natured roast type
routine. It was a very direct criticism using satire. And it was a
criticism not just of the administration, but of the WH press corps as
well. And it was brilliant, IMO.


Brilliant in the sense that most schizophrenic delusions seem more real
than mere mundane reality.

In the real world the WH press corps aren't lapdogs. They just aren't
insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and
Chimpy McHitlerburton characterizations

And now we enter False Dichotomy Town. Right on schedule, Fred!
.
User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Truthiness 04 May 2006 05:05:46 AM
"Nick J." <NICK0094@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1146721773.866348.34260@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


Fred Stone wrote:

"Craig Pennington" <cpenning@milo.org> wrote in
news:dsumi3-lng.ln1@nazg.milo.org:

johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
[snip]

These dinners and 'roasts' happen all the time. The speakers
always take jabs at the big shots present. I really can't
understand why the righties are so upset. This wasn't even a real
news story until all of the righties started pissing and moaning
about it.


Anger is the proper response -- that was not a good natured roast
type routine. It was a very direct criticism using satire. And it
was a criticism not just of the administration, but of the WH press
corps as well. And it was brilliant, IMO.


Brilliant in the sense that most schizophrenic delusions seem more
real than mere mundane reality.

In the real world the WH press corps aren't lapdogs. They just aren't
insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies
and Chimpy McHitlerburton characterizations


And now we enter False Dichotomy Town. Right on schedule, Fred!

And here's Nick playing The Random Fallacy Game!
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Master of Orion 3 lives!
Patch 1.2.5 - http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/patch071803.html
Strawberry Mod - http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=142
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
.


User: ""

Title: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 04 May 2006 02:06:41 PM
Fred Stone wrote:

insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and

http://www.bartcop.com/tt-moonbat.jpg
Fred's just doing his bit to waste our time talking with a brick wall.
BTW, Fred, as you already know, the whole flap about Colbert's Roast of
Bush is that the mainstream media universally tried to ignore it then
universally panned it, just like you right wingers universally spout
off talking points on cue. We never expected it to be universally
covered or universally praised, but you seem to have no problem with
the reverse being true.
But then you already know all this and will once again come up with
your own spin that has absolutely nothing to do with the truth, like
you'll say I'm projecting (when you do nothing but project when talking
about Democrats and liberals).
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 04 May 2006 06:07:48 PM
<Mark_Reichert@hotmail.com> wrote

Fred Stone wrote:

insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and


http://www.bartcop.com/tt-moonbat.jpg

Fred's just doing his bit to waste our time talking with a brick wall.

Don't be hasty. Try to see things from "Fred's" point of view.
"Fred" is a Bush...um... we'll say "Supporter."
Anyhow, going back to the 2000 election, his god is flying around the
country
in Enron's corporate jet attacking McCain for accepting "corporate favors"
(like flying around in corporate jets), even as his men are calling homes in
South Carolina and telling voters about McCain's "Black Baby" and how he
went insane as a prisoner in Vietnam.
Sleeze pays off, and Bush successfully purchases the GOP Presidential
nonimation.
Bush then follows up the integrety of his primary campaign my smearing
Al Gore for making "Wild Claims," such as the author of "Love Story"
based the male lead on him (something the author did state), that he visited
a distaster area in Texas (which he did visit) and that he invented the
internet
(something Gore never claimed).
Oh. And just for good measure -- and to absolutely/positely prove his
integrety beyond all doubt -- Bush made a few claims like this one, stated
during a debate with Al Gore:
| ...the time for campaign funding reform is after the election, this man
has
| outspent me, the special interests are outspending me, and I am not
| going to lay down my arms in the middle of a campaign for somebody
| who has got no credibility on the issue
| http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0010/03/se.01.html
Here on our planet, Bush outspent Al Gore by nearly 2-to-1 ( $120
million to Al Gore's $65 million). Another way of putting it: Bush was
lying.
Then there was the actual 2000 election & Florida. Interesting thing
about that being, not one single party involved ever denied the
blaringly obvious fact that thousands of people -- the vast majority
black people -- were disenfranchised.
Everybody -- the Feds, the state of Florida, the counties were the
voting was took take place & the plantifs -- all agreed that thousands
of people were in fact disenfranchised, denied their vote.
This in an election that was supposedly decided by a few hundred
votes.
The Supreme Court, in hearing the case over the Florida 2000
election, stated flat out that votes didn't matter. The Supreme
Court stated flat out that what was at issue was the will of the
legislature, not the voters. That, according to the constitution,
it is the Electors that actually vote for a President, and it is the
state legislature that appoints the electors.
So, what was the will of the Florida legislature? According to
not just the legislature itself but the actual election laws it passed,
the candidate who got the most votes wins the state's Electoral
votes. But all that was thrown out the window by the Supreme
Court, who decided that the will of the legislature is not expressed
by the laws passed by the legislature, but by the election results
as reported by the Bush's campaign chair for the state of Florida...
who happened to also be the Secretary of State.
So Bush is sworn into office. Yup. First thing he does is fill
the media with made-up stories about the Clinton Administration
vandalizing the Whitehouse offices & equipment. It's all a lie.
None of it is true. Brand new administration, just starting out
and the VERY FIRST thing Bush does is smear Bill Clinton
with lies. Next up on his to-do list: Energy!
California, all by itself, has the 8th largest economy in the
world. California's economy is so large that if it were it's
own country they would have to throw someone out of the
G8, because California would out-rank them. California's
economy is so large, so important that when when it catches
cold jobs all over the nation get sick & die. In 2001, with
Bush at the helm, California's economy was sent into a
tumble with enormous spikes in energy costs, and rolling
blackouts cutting off energy to consumers & businesses.
Turns out that these energy shortages were artificially
created. Yup. Energy brokers -- including Enron -- were
caught actually paying power plants to shut down, causing
blackouts and forcing the state to sign long term contracts
for energy at hugely inflated prices. By July of 2001 the
Bush administration had not only investigated this rape of
California's economy (and America's economy with it),
but identified wrong doing.
They sealed the evidence. Yup. They made it a crime to
use the evidence against ***** Cheney's friends in state
criminal & civil cases against the energy brokers. But, they
did go after one or two of the plants that accepted the
bribes. They even made one of the plants pay back SOME
of the bribe. On to tax cuts...
Bush swore up & down that his huge tax give-aways to the
rich were not going to return us to deficits. They did. Starting
in August of 2001 the U.S. was officially back in deficit
spending. In only eight months Bush had taken us from the
single largest budget surpluses the world had ever seen into
borrowing money just to get by.
Oh; maybe I should point out that it was the Bush
administration itself that identified Bush's tax policies as
the cause of the deficit. The Treasury Department flat
out stated that they had to borrow to make up for the
deficit caused by the tax cuts. A month later 9/11 happened.
Free clue: The PDB, "Bin Laden Determend To Attack
Inside The United States" was a SUPPLIMENTAL
briefing. It was BACKGROUND information, HISTORICAL
data.
If it still hasn't clicked for you: There had been AT LEAST
one other PREVIOUS Presidential briefing on the current
(as of August of 2001) terrorist threat. The brief released to
the public was a SUPPLIMENTAL brief, to provide
BACKGROUND, HISTORICAL INFORMATION behind
the *Real* briefing.
Anyhow, none of the CREDIBLE and ACTIONABLE
intelligence on the threat mattered, as Bush's only response
to the KNOWN TERRORIST THREAT was to stay as
far away from Washington as he could for that summer.
Hint: You only do that if the *Real* brief, the one that wasn't
just a suppliment, warned you that Washington was a likely
target.
Meaning.... what? That the information Bush had was not
simply on some generic, non-specific threat, but was in fact
so specific that it identified AT LEAST one likely target...
a city that in fact WAS TARGETTED.
So WE KNOW that the intelligence Bush was reading was
SO GOOD that it not only warned of a threat, but accurately
identified AT LEAST one city that was targetted.
So Bush fucked up everything, and the result was 9/11. 2001
drew to a close, and for Bush 2002 was spent on his three
highest priorities on Earth: Raising money, cutting taxes and
invading Iraq.
With 2001 such a successful year for Bush -- he bankrupted
the government, threw us into a recession and hid his own
pampered ***** safely away while the worst terrorist attack in
the history of the planet took place -- he decided to take it
easy for 2002.
"It's hard work."
--G. Dubya Bush
In 2002 Bush spent more time away from Washington,
campaigning for his hand-picked congressional candidates,
than any President in history. America was losing more than
100,000 job a month, and Bush spent his time raising well
in excess of $100,000,000.00 for his Partisan favorites.
"You were doing a heck of a job, Bushie!"
It was also in 2002 that Bush invented his case for war against
Iraq. I guess that qualifies as another high point in his career.
And, oh, let's not forget more & more tax cuts!
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 05 May 2006 09:59:59 AM
JTEM wrote:

<Mark_Reichert@hotmail.com> wrote

Fred Stone wrote:

insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies and


http://www.bartcop.com/tt-moonbat.jpg

Fred's just doing his bit to waste our time talking with a brick wall.


Don't be hasty. Try to see things from "Fred's" point of view.

"Fred" is a Bush...um... we'll say "Supporter."

Anyhow, going back to the 2000 election, his god is flying around the
country
in Enron's corporate jet attacking McCain for accepting "corporate favors"
(like flying around in corporate jets), even as his men are calling homes in
South Carolina and telling voters about McCain's "Black Baby" and how he
went insane as a prisoner in Vietnam.

Sleeze pays off, and Bush successfully purchases the GOP Presidential
nonimation.

Bush then follows up the integrety of his primary campaign my smearing
Al Gore for making "Wild Claims," such as the author of "Love Story"
based the male lead on him (something the author did state), that he visited
a distaster area in Texas (which he did visit) and that he invented the
internet
(something Gore never claimed).

Oh. And just for good measure -- and to absolutely/positely prove his
integrety beyond all doubt -- Bush made a few claims like this one, stated
during a debate with Al Gore:

| ...the time for campaign funding reform is after the election, this man
has
| outspent me, the special interests are outspending me, and I am not
| going to lay down my arms in the middle of a campaign for somebody
| who has got no credibility on the issue
| http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0010/03/se.01.html

Here on our planet, Bush outspent Al Gore by nearly 2-to-1 ( $120
million to Al Gore's $65 million). Another way of putting it: Bush was
lying.

Then there was the actual 2000 election & Florida. Interesting thing
about that being, not one single party involved ever denied the
blaringly obvious fact that thousands of people -- the vast majority
black people -- were disenfranchised.

Everybody -- the Feds, the state of Florida, the counties were the
voting was took take place & the plantifs -- all agreed that thousands
of people were in fact disenfranchised, denied their vote.

The purge law (Fla. Stat. 98.0975) was enacted under the Lawton Chiles
(D) Adminstration because of the vote fraud in the 1998 Miami mayoral
race. The state, along with each county supervisor (the majority who
were also Democrats), worked together to clean up the voting rolls
across the state.
The state election office warned that the list would not be 100%
correct. The state also recommended that if they could not verifiy the
information, to err on the side of the voter, and let the voter cast a
ballot. The Palm Beach Post found 108 were wrongfully identified as
felon, and 996 were felons, but were from other states, thus they had
the right to vote in Florida. During the hearings before the USCCR, the
commission did not present a single witness who said they were denied
the right to vote because they were mis-identified as a felon.
If the people of Florida want to allow felons to vote, then they should
push to have that law repealed. If the current members of the
legislature refuse, then they will face the voters in the next
election.

This in an election that was supposedly decided by a few hundred
votes.

Bush's numbers were supressed by illegal actions by the Democrats, i.e.
the illegal disqualification of overseas ballots that generally favored
Bush. A court ordered ballot included into the total (Bush v.
Hillsborough), but than remedy was never carried out.

The Supreme Court, in hearing the case over the Florida 2000
election, stated flat out that votes didn't matter. The Supreme
Court stated flat out that what was at issue was the will of the
legislature, not the voters. That, according to the constitution,
it is the Electors that actually vote for a President, and it is the
state legislature that appoints the electors.

Article II of the US Constitution. The representatives of the people
are to appoint presidental electors in a manner that they prescribe.
This has been upheld by the courts for years.

So, what was the will of the Florida legislature? According to
not just the legislature itself but the actual election laws it passed,
the candidate who got the most votes wins the state's Electoral
votes.

The Florida legislature also said that these disputes must be settled
by the safe harbor date. IF they were not, the dispute goes to the
Representatives of the People to be settled.

But all that was thrown out the window by the Supreme
Court, who decided that the will of the legislature is not expressed
by the laws passed by the legislature,

That is false. The US Supreme Court upheld the right of the state
legisature to move this dispute to Congress.

but by the election results
as reported by the Bush's campaign chair for the state of Florida...
who happened to also be the Secretary of State.

Those election results were certified according to the remedy crafted
by the Democrat majority of the Florida Supreme Court (Palm Beach
County Canvassing Board v. Harris). That court set the new deadline,
that court said that the recounts must be complete on 11/26/2000 at 5
p.m., or the returns were not be included in the certification.

So Bush is sworn into office. Yup.

Only after the Representatives of the People approved the election. The
Congressional Black Cascus in the House filled a challenge to Bush's
electors. This challenge failed because no Senator, Democrat or
Republican, would sign on, thus the Representatives of the People
accepted the results of the election.

First thing he does is fill
the media with made-up stories about the Clinton Administration
vandalizing the Whitehouse offices & equipment. It's all a lie.
None of it is true. Brand new administration, just starting out
and the VERY FIRST thing Bush does is smear Bill Clinton
with lies. Next up on his to-do list: Energy!

California, all by itself, has the 8th largest economy in the
world. California's economy is so large that if it were it's
own country they would have to throw someone out of the
G8, because California would out-rank them. California's
economy is so large, so important that when when it catches
cold jobs all over the nation get sick & die. In 2001, with
Bush at the helm, California's economy was sent into a
tumble with enormous spikes in energy costs, and rolling
blackouts cutting off energy to consumers & businesses.

Turns out that these energy shortages were artificially
created. Yup. Energy brokers -- including Enron -- were
caught actually paying power plants to shut down, causing
blackouts and forcing the state to sign long term contracts
for energy at hugely inflated prices. By July of 2001 the
Bush administration had not only investigated this rape of
California's economy (and America's economy with it),
but identified wrong doing.

They sealed the evidence. Yup. They made it a crime to
use the evidence against ***** Cheney's friends in state
criminal & civil cases against the energy brokers. But, they
did go after one or two of the plants that accepted the
bribes. They even made one of the plants pay back SOME
of the bribe. On to tax cuts...

Bush swore up & down that his huge tax give-aways to the
rich were not going to return us to deficits. They did. Starting
in August of 2001 the U.S. was officially back in deficit
spending. In only eight months Bush had taken us from the
single largest budget surpluses the world had ever seen into
borrowing money just to get by.

Oh; maybe I should point out that it was the Bush
administration itself that identified Bush's tax policies as
the cause of the deficit. The Treasury Department flat
out stated that they had to borrow to make up for the
deficit caused by the tax cuts. A month later 9/11 happened.

Free clue: The PDB, "Bin Laden Determend To Attack
Inside The United States" was a SUPPLIMENTAL
briefing. It was BACKGROUND information, HISTORICAL
data.

If it still hasn't clicked for you: There had been AT LEAST
one other PREVIOUS Presidential briefing on the current
(as of August of 2001) terrorist threat. The brief released to
the public was a SUPPLIMENTAL brief, to provide
BACKGROUND, HISTORICAL INFORMATION behind
the *Real* briefing.

Anyhow, none of the CREDIBLE and ACTIONABLE
intelligence on the threat mattered, as Bush's only response
to the KNOWN TERRORIST THREAT was to stay as
far away from Washington as he could for that summer.

Hint: You only do that if the *Real* brief, the one that wasn't
just a suppliment, warned you that Washington was a likely
target.

Meaning.... what? That the information Bush had was not
simply on some generic, non-specific threat, but was in fact
so specific that it identified AT LEAST one likely target...
a city that in fact WAS TARGETTED.

So WE KNOW that the intelligence Bush was reading was
SO GOOD that it not only warned of a threat, but accurately
identified AT LEAST one city that was targetted.

So Bush fucked up everything, and the result was 9/11. 2001
drew to a close, and for Bush 2002 was spent on his three
highest priorities on Earth: Raising money, cutting taxes and
invading Iraq.

With 2001 such a successful year for Bush -- he bankrupted
the government, threw us into a recession and hid his own
pampered ***** safely away while the worst terrorist attack in
the history of the planet took place -- he decided to take it
easy for 2002.

"It's hard work."
--G. Dubya Bush

In 2002 Bush spent more time away from Washington,
campaigning for his hand-picked congressional candidates,
than any President in history. America was losing more than
100,000 job a month, and Bush spent his time raising well
in excess of $100,000,000.00 for his Partisan favorites.

"You were doing a heck of a job, Bushie!"

It was also in 2002 that Bush invented his case for war against
Iraq. I guess that qualifies as another high point in his career.

And, oh, let's not forget more & more tax cuts!

.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 11:18:47 AM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

The state election office warned that the list would not be
100% correct. The state also recommended that if they
could not verifiy the information, to err on the side of the
voter, and let the voter cast a ballot. The Palm Beach Post
found 108 were wrongfully identified as felon, and 996
were felons, but were from other states, thus they had
the right to vote in Florida. During the hearings before the
USCCR, the commission did not present a single witness
who said they were denied the right to vote because they
were mis-identified as a felon.

What the Palm Beach Post found is irrelevant, because every
party to the case (including the courts) had no trouble finding
victims.
Secondly, you're ignoring the blaringly obvious fact of the
5-to-4 Supreme Court decision: Votes didn't matter!
Yes, the Supreme Court stated exactly that.

Bush's numbers were supressed by illegal actions by the
Democrats, i.e. the illegal disqualification of overseas
ballots that generally favored Bush.

This isn't just a lie, it's the opposite of the facts. Bush had
quite a number of illegal (under Florida law) ballots counted.
Secondly, you've completely invented the "Overseas" part.
The issue in 2000 was absentee ballots. The fantasy is that
all these absentee ballots were coming from Florida
residents who were stationed overseas in the military, but
that claim hardly constitutes fact.
Thirdly, the issue actually began long before the actual
vote count, when Republican "Volunteers" (and only
Republican volunteers) were given access to returned
absentee ballot requests and allowed to alter them. No
Democratic party official was even informed, never mind
allowed to witness this.

The Supreme Court, in hearing the case over the Florida 2000
election, stated flat out that votes didn't matter. The Supreme
Court stated flat out that what was at issue was the will of the
legislature, not the voters. That, according to the constitution,
it is the Electors that actually vote for a President, and it is the
state legislature that appoints the electors.

Article II of the US Constitution. The representatives of the people
are to appoint presidental electors in a manner that they prescribe.
This has been upheld by the courts for years.

Great. You're ignoring the bit about Florida election law, which
spelled out EXACTLY the manner in which Electors were to
be chosen: By popular vote!
*Never* in the entire history of this country has *Anyone* ever
claimed that legislation passed by a legislature (i.e. "laws") does
not constitute "The will of the legislature."

So, what was the will of the Florida legislature? According to
not just the legislature itself but the actual election laws it passed,
the candidate who got the most votes wins the state's Electoral
votes.

The Florida legislature also said that these disputes must be settled
by the safe harbor date.

It was. By the Florida courts. They made their ruling: COUNT ALL
THE VOTES!
Bush went to the Supreme Court and asked them to STOP the
counting.

But all that was thrown out the window by the Supreme
Court, who decided that the will of the legislature is not expressed
by the laws passed by the legislature,

That is false.

No, it's true. Though they acknowledged that Al Gore never requested
anything that wasn't provided for under Florida law, and that the Florida
courts never ordered anything that wasn't provided for under Florida
law ("The will of the legislature"), they ordered a halt to recounts.

Only after the Representatives of the People approved the election.

Translation: A 5-to-4 partisan Supreme Court decision.
But you were close.
And, oh: Please stop quoting invisible newspaper articles.
But I suppose, I mean if I felt it necessary to defend an illegitimate
"President," I would also have the need to reduce myself to your
smoke & mirrors...
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 03:27:08 PM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

The state election office warned that the list would not be
100% correct. The state also recommended that if they
could not verifiy the information, to err on the side of the
voter, and let the voter cast a ballot. The Palm Beach Post
found 108 were wrongfully identified as felon, and 996
were felons, but were from other states, thus they had
the right to vote in Florida. During the hearings before the
USCCR, the commission did not present a single witness
who said they were denied the right to vote because they
were mis-identified as a felon.


What the Palm Beach Post found is irrelevant, because every
party to the case (including the courts) had no trouble finding
victims.

That is why there was not a single witness who said they were denied
the right to vote because they were mis-identified as a felon before
the USCCR, they had no trouble finding them.

Secondly, you're ignoring the blaringly obvious fact of the
5-to-4 Supreme Court decision: Votes didn't matter!

Yes, the Supreme Court stated exactly that.

Nice spin, but if you had read Florida Election Code, and the other
cases that came out of the Florida dispute, you would understand why
that is false statement.

Bush's numbers were supressed by illegal actions by the
Democrats, i.e. the illegal disqualification of overseas
ballots that generally favored Bush.


This isn't just a lie, it's the opposite of the facts. Bush had
quite a number of illegal (under Florida law) ballots counted.

As did Gore. The point is that Gore netted much more illegal votes than
did Bush. But what you call illegal Bush votes were found to be legal
by the Florida and Federal Courts.
If you would like to educate yourself on the facts, here are a few
cases that show just exactly how the Democrats were trying to throw out
legal ballots. Basically they were arguing that current Florida Code
didn't matter, they wanted to go back to the laws that were in place
some 16 years earlier. In Hillsborough, the judge ordered ballots that
had been wrongfully disqualifed to be added back into the totals. That
remedy has not been carried out.
Bush vs. Hillsborough County Canvassing Board:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/hills.pdf
Medina vs. Florida Election Canvassing Commission:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/medinaorder.pdf
(Robert) Harris vs. State of Florida Election Canvassing Commission:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/00-16423.pdf

Secondly, you've completely invented the "Overseas" part.
The issue in 2000 was absentee ballots. The fantasy is that
all these absentee ballots were coming from Florida
residents who were stationed overseas in the military, but
that claim hardly constitutes fact.

This statement here shows how uninformed you are about the facts in the
2000 election. I see that you had to move from the overseas ballots
questions to absentee ballot forms. Again, if you want to educate
yourself, I suggest that you read the cases that I cited above.

Thirdly, the issue actually began long before the actual
vote count, when Republican "Volunteers" (and only
Republican volunteers) were given access to returned
absentee ballot requests and allowed to alter them. No
Democratic party official was even informed, never mind
allowed to witness this.

We find that this issue shows that Democrats do not want the law to be
followed, nor do they want everyone to have equal access to vote.
The election supervisors of both Martin and Semole Counties wrongly
required voter ID to be placed on election forms or the they would be
disqualified. The only voters who were affected were Republicans. Those
supervisors allowed those forms to be corrected. Once corrected, those
forms had to be declared valid before a ballot was sent to the voter.
At no time did these "volunteers" have access to the ballots, only
request forms.
Since you brought up this argument, it appears that only believe that
Democrats have the right to vote, and Republicans do not. Those votes
were legally received. A lack of a ballot ID on the application, does
not invalidate the ballot.
The decison of the Florida Supreme Court (6 Democrats, 1 Independant)
"=2E...It cannot be said that the lack of a voter registration
identification number on an absentee ballot request is calculated to
effect the integrity of the request itself or the subsequent ballot or
the election, when substantial other identifying information has been
included on the request. In comparison, Section 102.68(2)(c), Florida
Statutes requires that a voters name, address and signature must be
included on an absentee ballot. That section goes on to provide
specifically that the failure to include the absentee voter's name
address and signature voids the ballot."
"There is no invalidating directive for failure to include the voter
registration identification number on a request for an absentee ballot.
.. . ."
"The statutory requirement that the requester "must" disclose the nine
items in Section 101.62(b) is simply not a definitive statement by the
Legislature that requests which are missing the voter's registration
number are illegal or void."
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/sc00-2447.pdf

The Supreme Court, in hearing the case over the Florida 2000
election, stated flat out that votes didn't matter. The Supreme
Court stated flat out that what was at issue was the will of the
legislature, not the voters. That, according to the constitution,
it is the Electors that actually vote for a President, and it is the
state legislature that appoints the electors.


Article II of the US Constitution. The representatives of the people
are to appoint presidental electors in a manner that they prescribe.
This has been upheld by the courts for years.


Great. You're ignoring the bit about Florida election law, which
spelled out EXACTLY the manner in which Electors were to
be chosen: By popular vote!

It is not that I have ignored Florida Election Code, it is that you are
trying to rest your case on a quote of a single code. That is a common
mistake, and does not make your case. Laws are to be read as books, not
as single cites. The Florida Supreme Court pointed out 3 times that the
election disputes had to be settled by safe harbor date. They did so
because that was "the will of the legislature". Further, even Al Gore
himself agreed.
Palm Beach County Canvassing Board v. Katherine Harris
"Ignoring the county's returns is a drastic measure and is appropriate
only if the returns submitted the Department so late that their
inclusion will compromise the integrity of the electoral process in
either of two way: (1) by precluding a candidate, elector, or taxpayer
from contesting the certification of an election pursuant to section
102.168; or (2) by precluding Florida voters from participating fully
in the federal electoral process." (reference to footnote 55)
"Footnote #55 See: 3 U.S.C. =A7 =A7 1-10 (1994)."
The Safe Harbor date can be found in the above US Code.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/sc00-2346.pdf
Al Gore himself agreed this was the law in the state of Florida. From
Gore v. Harris II.
"This Court, in its prior opinion, and all of the parties agree that
election controversies and contests must be finally and conclusively
determined by December 12, 2000. See 3 U.S.C. =A7 5."
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/OP-SC00-2431.pdf
Again here in this case.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/sc00-2346-remand.pdf

*Never* in the entire history of this country has *Anyone* ever
claimed that legislation passed by a legislature (i.e. "laws") does
not constitute "The will of the legislature."

Yet, that exactly what you have done. You have ignored other laws of
the state of Florida. As I have shown, the Florida Supreme Court
pointed out 3 times, and as Al Gore agreed, this was "the will of the
legislature", i.e. election disputes must be settled by the safe
harbor date, or those disputes will be sent to Congress. In this case,
the US Supreme Court upheld this point by a 5-4 vote.

So, what was the will of the Florida legislature? According to
not just the legislature itself but the actual election laws it passe=

d,

the candidate who got the most votes wins the state's Electoral
votes.


The Florida legislature also said that these disputes must be settled
by the safe harbor date.


It was. By the Florida courts. They made their ruling: COUNT ALL
THE VOTES!

This is an outright lie. The fact is no Florida Court ever made the
ruling to count all of the votes. Palm Beach County Canvassing Board
vs. Katherine Harris said to recount ballots in 4 counties. Gore v.
Harris said to only recount the undervote.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/sc00-2346.pdf
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/OP-SC00-2431.pdf

Bush went to the Supreme Court and asked them to STOP the
counting.

As he should have. A standardless, partial recount of the disputed
ballots would not settle the case.

But all that was thrown out the window by the Supreme
Court, who decided that the will of the legislature is not expressed
by the laws passed by the legislature,


That is false.


No, it's true. Though they acknowledged that Al Gore never requested
anything that wasn't provided for under Florida law, and that the Florida
courts never ordered anything that wasn't provided for under Florida
law ("The will of the legislature"), they ordered a halt to recounts.

To say that "Al Gore never requested anything that wasn't provided for
under Florida law" is a false statement. Florida Code 102.168 requires
a statewide remedy, Gore asked for just a few counties to be recount.
He lost this in both the court of Judge Sauls and the Florida Supreme
Court. Neither court would grant his request.
Gore's complaint:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/CV-00-2808a.pdf
Ruling from Judge Sauls:
"Further, this Court would further conclude and find that the properly
stated cause of action under Section 102.168 of the Florida Statutes to
contest a statewide federal election, the Plaintiff would necessarily
have to place at issue and seek as a remedy with the attendant burden
of proof, a review and recount on all ballots, and all of the counties
in this state with respect to the particular alleged irregularities or
inaccuracies in the balloting or counting processes alleged to have
occurred."
http://www.quarterly-report.com/election_2000/sauls_opinion.html
The US Supreme Court upheld the right of the state legislature to move
this dispute to Congress.

Only after the Representatives of the People approved the election.


Translation: A 5-to-4 partisan Supreme Court decision.

I see that you have no clue to how the Electoral College System works.
IF you had a clue, you would know that after Bush was certified as a
result of the ruling of the Florida Supreme Court in Palm Beach v
Harris, that Gore could only win the white house in Congress. What the
courts did AFTER certification has been granted has nothing to do with
Bush's electors.
The fact is, if the US Supreme Court had not taken Bush v. Gore, and if
Gore had won the standardless partial recount as ordered by the Florida
Supreme Court, he still would not be in the white house. Congress
wasn't going to be swayed by a recount that violated Florida Election
Code.
But since you don't understand the Electoral College System, I don't
expect you to grasp this point.

But you were close.

And, oh: Please stop quoting invisible newspaper articles.

Please stop spewing the Democrat myths about the 2000 election. Try to
edcuate yourself on the facts.

But I suppose, I mean if I felt it necessary to defend an illegitimate
"President," I would also have the need to reduce myself to your
smoke & mirrors...

I not defending Bush, I am showing how you are ignorant on the laws of
Florida and the Electoral College process. Unlike you, since I know the
facts, I saw right threw your "smoke & mirrors".
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 05:19:05 PM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

What the Palm Beach Post found is irrelevant, because every
party to the case (including the courts) had no trouble finding
victims.
That is why there was not a single witness who said they were denied
the right to vote because they were mis-identified as a felon before
the USCCR, they had no trouble finding them.

Why would the USCCR feel the need to call witnesses when they
themselves had already established the disenfranchisement as a
fact?
They spell it out themselves. The USCCR, that is. They would only
need to call on the testimony of witnesses -- people actually kicked
off the voter rolls -- if the blaringly obvious fact that people were
kicked off were somehow in dispute.
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch1.htm
Scroll down to, and start reading at "Impact of purge list."
You are lying.
There. You've been called on your lies.
You're welcome, you ***** eating maggot.
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 05:27:05 PM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

What the Palm Beach Post found is irrelevant, because every
party to the case (including the courts) had no trouble finding
victims.


That is why there was not a single witness who said they were denied
the right to vote because they were mis-identified as a felon before
the USCCR, they had no trouble finding them.


Why would the USCCR feel the need to call witnesses when they
themselves had already established the disenfranchisement as a
fact?

They spell it out themselves. The USCCR, that is. They would only
need to call on the testimony of witnesses -- people actually kicked
off the voter rolls -- if the blaringly obvious fact that people were
kicked off were somehow in dispute.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch1.htm

Scroll down to, and start reading at "Impact of purge list."

You are lying.

Of course, no where in your link does it say that those who were
wrongfully removed were not allowed to vote. As I have shown in this
thread, you are willing to ignore Florida Code to try make your points.
If you had read more of the USCCR report, you would have found out
about Fla. Stat. 101.49.
"It is your responsibility to attempt to verify the accuracy of the
information on the list, and remove, prior to the next election, any
person who is deceased, convicted of a felony, or mentally
incapacitated with respect to voting. If you have doubts as to whether
or not the felony information is accurate or are unable to verify the
accuracy of the information, we recommend that affected persons execute
the affidavit prescribed in section 101.49, Florida statutes. In short,
if there is reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the information, you
should allow a person to vote."
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm

There. You've been called on your lies.

Nice try. But of course you lied about what the report said. That is a
typical response from you.

You're welcome, you ***** eating maggot.

I also notice that you could not defend any of your other points. Thank
you for admitting defeat.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 06:17:58 PM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

Why would the USCCR feel the need to call witnesses when they
themselves had already established the disenfranchisement as a
fact?

They spell it out themselves. The USCCR, that is. They would only
need to call on the testimony of witnesses -- people actually kicked
off the voter rolls -- if the blaringly obvious fact that people were
kicked off were somehow in dispute.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch1.htm

Scroll down to, and start reading at "Impact of purge list."

You are lying.

Of course, no where in your link does it say that those who were
wrongfully removed were not allowed to vote.

So nowhere in my link -- titled "Voting Irregularities in Florida During
the 2000 Presidential Election, Chapter 1, Voting System Controls
And Failures" -- does it so much as hint that the practice of wrongfully
denying citizens their right to vote produced any problems with voting?
Is there any part of you remaining with even a smudge of humanity left?
If you want to be specific (and you don't) the link only expressly states
that 327 wrongfully disenfranchised voters in Miami-Dade county were
restored OUT OF 812 IDENTIFIED ERRORS!!!!
Contrary to your lies, the USCCR states in no uncertain terms that
voters were WRONGFULLY kicked of the voter rolls.
You are scum. No, seriously. You are scum.
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 07:41:07 PM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

Why would the USCCR feel the need to call witnesses when they
themselves had already established the disenfranchisement as a
fact?

They spell it out themselves. The USCCR, that is. They would only
need to call on the testimony of witnesses -- people actually kicked
off the voter rolls -- if the blaringly obvious fact that people were
kicked off were somehow in dispute.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch1.htm

Scroll down to, and start reading at "Impact of purge list."

You are lying.


Of course, no where in your link does it say that those who were
wrongfully removed were not allowed to vote.


So nowhere in my link -- titled "Voting Irregularities in Florida During
the 2000 Presidential Election, Chapter 1, Voting System Controls
And Failures" -- does it so much as hint that the practice of wrongfully
denying citizens their right to vote produced any problems with voting?

"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
See: Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105
"It is your responsibility to attempt to verify the accuracy of the
information on the list, and remove, prior to the next election, any
person who is deceased, convicted of a felony, or mentally
incapacitated with respect to voting. If you have doubts as to whether
or not the felony information is accurate or are unable to verify the
accuracy of the information, we recommend that affected persons execute
the affidavit prescribed in section 101.49, Florida statutes. In short,
if there is reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the information, you
should allow a person to vote."
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm
Remember what the state told these election officials. "...if there is
reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the information, you should
allow a person to vote."

Is there any part of you remaining with even a smudge of humanity left?

Do you possess an ounce of intelligence? Your uneducated arguments are
pathetic.

If you want to be specific (and you don't) the link only expressly states
that 327 wrongfully disenfranchised voters in Miami-Dade county were
restored OUT OF 812 IDENTIFIED ERRORS!!!!

I have already pointed out that there those who were WRONGFULLY thrown
off the rolls.
"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
See: Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105

Contrary to your lies, the USCCR states in no uncertain terms that
voters were WRONGFULLY kicked of the voter rolls.

No wonder I have beeb kicking your ***** in this thread. You can't seem
to remember what has been written. I have already posted that fact in
this thread. You have just proven yourself to be the liar in this
thread. Keep it up.

You are scum. No, seriously. You are scum.

Of course, no where did I say that was right, fair, correct, or have I
defended the process. No one should WRONGFULLY removed. You have tried
this trick because I have defeated every one of you uneducated
arguments.
Please educate yourself. Then maybe you will have an understanding of
what happened in Florida. Relying on the Democrats myths makes you look
foolish.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 08:35:03 PM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

"Some... claim [--snip REFUTED cite --]

Now I asked you nicely to stop quoting newspaper articles.
As you insist on continuing the practice, and you are a
scumbag, I no longer feel the need to be nice about it.
Cite the people who actually determined the facts and made
the decisions, not a newspaper article.
Oops! You tried that once with the USCCR, and I easily
demonstrated that you were lying!
I guess that's why you insist on avoiding source documents.
And you do insist on it. Newpapers are not source documents.

"It is your responsibility to attempt to verify the accuracy of the
information on the list, and remove, prior to the next election, any
person who is deceased, convicted of a felony, or mentally
incapacitated with respect to voting. If you have doubts as to whether
or not the felony information is accurate or are unable to verify the
accuracy of the information, we recommend that affected persons execute
the affidavit prescribed in section 101.49, Florida statutes. In short,
if there is reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the information, you
should allow a person to vote."

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm

You're dishonest. You're taking what was SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN
and misrepresenting it as what happened. The actual conclusion of
the USCCR was as follows:
| Although Florida election law required that the supervisors of elections,
| who received the exclusion lists compiled by Professional Analytical
| Systems & Services and DBT Online, attempt to verify the accuracy
| of those lists,[129] it appears that this procedure was not followed
| with any degree of uniformity.
Again, you quoted WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN and
you are misrepresenting it as what happened. This is called lying.
You are intentionally trying to decieve people into believing something
that is not true.
***** you, you dirt piece of *****.
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 08:37:56 PM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

"Some... claim [--snip REFUTED cite --]


Now I asked you nicely to stop quoting newspaper articles.
As you insist on continuing the practice, and you are a
scumbag, I no longer feel the need to be nice about it.

Translation, you can't stand it that you have been proven wrong.

Cite the people who actually determined the facts and made
the decisions, not a newspaper article.

Unlike you, I will stick with the facts.

Oops! You tried that once with the USCCR, and I easily
demonstrated that you were lying!

Misquotes prove that you are a liar.

I guess that's why you insist on avoiding source documents.

Translation, you can't stand the truth.

And you do insist on it. Newpapers are not source documents.

Keep on whining and crying.

"It is your responsibility to attempt to verify the accuracy of the
information on the list, and remove, prior to the next election, any
person who is deceased, convicted of a felony, or mentally
incapacitated with respect to voting. If you have doubts as to whether
or not the felony information is accurate or are unable to verify the
accuracy of the information, we recommend that affected persons execute
the affidavit prescribed in section 101.49, Florida statutes. In short,
if there is reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the information, you
should allow a person to vote."

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm


You're dishonest. You're taking what was SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN
and misrepresenting it as what happened. The actual conclusion of
the USCCR was as follows:

That is why you are running from the argument. You can't defend your
points, so you taken on the diversion.

| Although Florida election law required that the supervisors of elections,
| who received the exclusion lists compiled by Professional Analytical
| Systems & Services and DBT Online, attempt to verify the accuracy
| of those lists,[129] it appears that this procedure was not followed
| with any degree of uniformity.

Here we are back to the findings of the Palm Beach Post that I
discussed.

Again, you quoted WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN and
you are misrepresenting it as what happened. This is called lying.
You are intentionally trying to decieve people into believing something
that is not true.

"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
See: Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105

***** you, you dirt piece of *****.

Please do start crusing for men in the thread.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 09:49:18 PM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

Now I asked you nicely to stop quoting newspaper articles.
As you insist on continuing the practice, and you are a
scumbag, I no longer feel the need to be nice about it.

Translation, you can't stand it that you have been proven wrong.

Are you braindamaged? We've been dealing with actual source
documents -- from the USCCR which YOU raised -- and they
completely disprove you.
Why on earth would you pretend that second-hand newspaper
accounts refute the actual source documents?
Oops! I forgot. It's because you're a lying sack of *****.

Cite the people who actually determined the facts and made
the decisions, not a newspaper article.

Unlike you, I will stick with the facts.

Oddly, you haven't. You even went so far as to misrepresent
the USCCR in order to "support" your lies. But you got caught.
Poor scumbag.

Oops! You tried that once with the USCCR, and I easily
demonstrated that you were lying!

Misquotes prove that you are a liar.

If you're trying to claim that the only way you can support your
claims is by misquoting people, I know. I even showed how
you did it, how you skipped over the actual CONCLUSIONS
of the USCCR and misrepresented an explaination of how things
were supposed to work as what had happened.

You're dishonest. You're taking what was SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN
and misrepresenting it as what happened. The actual conclusion of
the USCCR was as follows:

That is why you are running from the argument. You can't defend your
points, so you taken on the diversion.

Rather than "running," you actual quote the USCCR's conclusion:

| Although Florida election law required that the supervisors of

elections,

| who received the exclusion lists compiled by Professional Analytical
| Systems & Services and DBT Online, attempt to verify the accuracy
| of those lists,[129] it appears that this procedure was not followed
| with any degree of uniformity.

Here we are back to the findings of the Palm Beach Post that I
discussed.

But the above is from an actual source document, while a newspaper
article is only ever second-hand information.
It would be one thing if we didn't have actual source documents
available, but we do have them. Those actual source documents
completely refute your every word.
If a newspaper article contradicts this, we (including you) have
no choice but to dismiss the newspaper article in favor of the
actual source document.

Again, you quoted WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN and
you are misrepresenting it as what happened. This is called lying.
You are intentionally trying to decieve people into believing something
that is not true.

[--snip repeat of the maggots earlier misrepresentation--]
Again, you quoted what was supposed to happen, and pretended
it was what did happen. You are misrepresenting it as the The USCCR's
conclusions, instead of what it actually is.
You wouldn't need to do this if you had a leg to stand on. You
wouldn't feel it necessary to lie if you felt you had any other choice.
You are a filthy *****.
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 06 May 2006 09:51:15 PM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

Now I asked you nicely to stop quoting newspaper articles.
As you insist on continuing the practice, and you are a
scumbag, I no longer feel the need to be nice about it.


Translation, you can't stand it that you have been proven wrong.


Are you braindamaged? We've been dealing with actual source
documents -- from the USCCR which YOU raised -- and they
completely disprove you.

Which do not support your point.

Why on earth would you pretend that second-hand newspaper
accounts refute the actual source documents?

Oops! I forgot. It's because you're a lying sack of *****.

Yes you are.

Cite the people who actually determined the facts and made
the decisions, not a newspaper article.


Unlike you, I will stick with the facts.


Oddly, you haven't. You even went so far as to misrepresent
the USCCR in order to "support" your lies. But you got caught.

Yes, I have caught you lying about report. Keep on spinning.

Poor scumbag.

Yes you are.

Oops! You tried that once with the USCCR, and I easily
demonstrated that you were lying!


Misquotes prove that you are a liar.


If you're trying to claim that the only way you can support your
claims is by misquoting people, I know. I even showed how
you did it, how you skipped over the actual CONCLUSIONS
of the USCCR and misrepresented an explaination of how things
were supposed to work as what had happened.

Repeating your lies do not make to true. But nice try.

You're dishonest. You're taking what was SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN
and misrepresenting it as what happened. The actual conclusion of
the USCCR was as follows:


That is why you are running from the argument. You can't defend your
points, so you taken on the diversion.


Rather than "running," you actual quote the USCCR's conclusion:

| Although Florida election law required that the supervisors of

elections,

| who received the exclusion lists compiled by Professional Analytical
| Systems & Services and DBT Online, attempt to verify the accuracy
| of those lists,[129] it appears that this procedure was not followed
| with any degree of uniformity.


Here we are back to the findings of the Palm Beach Post that I
discussed.


But the above is from an actual source document, while a newspaper
article is only ever second-hand information.

You still haven't disproven what I said. Attacking your source doesn't
help.

It would be one thing if we didn't have actual source documents
available, but we do have them. Those actual source documents
completely refute your every word.

Stop your lying.

If a newspaper article contradicts this, we (including you) have
no choice but to dismiss the newspaper article in favor of the
actual source document.

Both newspapers support what the USCCR. Neither could produce a witness
that said they were denied the right to vote because of the felon list.
Both say that there were voters who were WRONGFULLY removed.
Again, please have an adult read the report to you.

Again, you quoted WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN and
you are misrepresenting it as what happened. This is called lying.
You are intentionally trying to decieve people into believing something
that is not true.


[--snip repeat of the maggots earlier misrepresentation--]

Again, you quoted what was supposed to happen, and pretended
it was what did happen. You are misrepresenting it as the The USCCR's
conclusions, instead of what it actually is.

Again with the lies.

You wouldn't need to do this if you had a leg to stand on. You
wouldn't feel it necessary to lie if you felt you had any other choice.

You can't even win a single point. Keep on dreaming.

You are a filthy *****.

It Mr. Filthy ***** to you Moron.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 07 May 2006 12:33:09 AM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

Are you braindamaged? We've been dealing with actual source
documents -- from the USCCR which YOU raised -- and they
completely disprove you.

Which do not support your point.

Of course they do. They completely disprove you. In fact, they
demonstrate that you lied. You lied.

Why on earth would you pretend that second-hand newspaper
accounts refute the actual source documents?

Oops! I forgot. It's because you're a lying sack of *****.

Yes you are.

Really? After it is demonstrated that the actual SOURCE
documents disprove you?

Oddly, you haven't. You even went so far as to misrepresent
the USCCR in order to "support" your lies. But you got caught.

Yes, I have caught you lying about report. Keep on spinning.

Are you honestly THAT pathetic? I showed how you misrepresented
the USCCR (i.e. "lied") in defense of your god Bush, and the best
you can manage is to deny the bleeding obvious?
You must really HATE Bush. Seriously. You wouldn't feel it
necessary to sink so low if you had the least bit of respect for
the... um... the "man."
I bet it tears you up inside, supporting a ***** who can't stand
up to the truth.
What's that like? It must really suck.
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 07 May 2006 08:04:24 AM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

Are you braindamaged? We've been dealing with actual source
documents -- from the USCCR which YOU raised -- and they
completely disprove you.


Which do not support your point.


Of course they do. They completely disprove you. In fact, they
demonstrate that you lied. You lied.

You can't support your arguments, nor can you prove that I lied.

Why on earth would you pretend that second-hand newspaper
accounts refute the actual source documents?

Oops! I forgot. It's because you're a lying sack of *****.


Yes you are.


Really? After it is demonstrated that the actual SOURCE
documents disprove you?

As I have pointed out, both the USCCR reports, the Miami Herald, and
the Palm Beach Post articles say the same thing. My quotes are exactly
correct.

Oddly, you haven't. You even went so far as to misrepresent
the USCCR in order to "support" your lies. But you got caught.


Yes, I have caught you lying about report. Keep on spinning.


Are you honestly THAT pathetic? I showed how you misrepresented
the USCCR (i.e. "lied") in defense of your god Bush, and the best
you can manage is to deny the bleeding obvious?

I am honest, you are pathetic. You are now lying about the report. Now
you have a new twist. You can't argue the point, now you are moving
"your god Bush". More ignorance on your part.

You must really HATE Bush. Seriously. You wouldn't feel it
necessary to sink so low if you had the least bit of respect for
the... um... the "man."

I could careless about Bush. As I have said, I am not here to defend
Bush, I am here to show how you are wrong.

I bet it tears you up inside, supporting a ***** who can't stand
up to the truth.

What's that like? It must really suck.

It must tear you up that you have been reduced to lying. You have
gotten totally thrashed in this thread.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 09 May 2006 01:44:06 AM
"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

You can't support your arguments, nor can you prove that I lied.

The conclusion of the USCCR was this:
| Although Florida election law required that the supervisors of elections,
| who received the exclusion lists compiled by Professional Analytical
| Systems & Services and DBT Online, attempt to verify the accuracy
| of those lists,[129] it appears that this procedure was not followed
| with any degree of uniformity.
| http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm
....and you pretended that they concluded that nobody was denied
their right to vote, that *Everyone* followed all the rules, all the
safeguards and nobody was denied a vote.
You lied.
You quoted a part of the report that explained how things were
SUPPOSED TO WORK -- not how they did work, but how
they were supposed to work -- and you misrepresented it as
"proof" that nobody was disenfranchised (i.e. "Lied").

As I have pointed out, both the USCCR reports, the Miami Herald, and
the Palm Beach Post articles say the same thing.

Then you completely misrepresented the Miami Herald and the Palm
Beach Post, because the USCCR contradicted everything you've
posted here.

I am honest, you are pathetic.

Well you're honestly a liar, if that's what you mean. And you've
been caught. Congratulations.
.
User: "The Weasel"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 10 May 2006 12:31:33 PM
JTEM wrote:

"The Weasel" <theoneandonlysuperweasel@yahoo.com> wrote

You can't support your arguments, nor can you prove that I lied.


The conclusion of the USCCR was this:

| Although Florida election law required that the supervisors of elections,
| who received the exclusion lists compiled by Professional Analytical
| Systems & Services and DBT Online, attempt to verify the accuracy
| of those lists,[129] it appears that this procedure was not followed
| with any degree of uniformity.
| http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch5.htm

You have misquoted the report. As the Miami Herald reported, even if a
person was WRONGFULLY removed, that did not mean they were not able to
vote.
Since time after time you have shown that you do not have the IQ to
understand what has been written, I suggest that you either educate
yourself, or have an adult explain it to you.

...and you pretended that they concluded that nobody was denied
their right to vote, that *Everyone* followed all the rules, all the
safeguards and nobody was denied a vote.

"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105

You lied.

What part of "no evidence" do you fail to understand?

You quoted a part of the report that explained how things were
SUPPOSED TO WORK -- not how they did work, but how
they were supposed to work -- and you misrepresented it as
"proof" that nobody was disenfranchised (i.e. "Lied").

"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105

As I have pointed out, both the USCCR reports, the Miami Herald, and
the Palm Beach Post articles say the same thing.


Then you completely misrepresented the Miami Herald and the Palm
Beach Post, because the USCCR contradicted everything you've
posted here.

"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105

I am honest, you are pathetic.


Well you're honestly a liar, if that's what you mean. And you've
been caught. Congratulations.

"Some... claim that many legitimate voters "of all ethnic and racial
groups, but particularly blacks" were illegally swept from the rolls
through the state's efforts to ban felons from voting. There is no
evidence of that. Instead, the evidence points to just the opposite,
that election officials were mostly permissive, not obstructionist,
when unregistered voters presented themselves."
Miami Herald Report, Democracy Held Hostage p. 105
Nice try, but you have lost.
.
















User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 04 May 2006 03:02:12 PM
wrote in
news:1146769601.189908.272890@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies
and


http://www.bartcop.com/tt-moonbat.jpg

Fred's just doing his bit to waste our time talking with a brick wall.

Hey, if you don't like being called a moonbat, don't act like one.

BTW, Fred, as you already know, the whole flap about Colbert's Roast
of Bush is that the mainstream media universally tried to ignore it
then universally panned it, just like you right wingers universally
spout off talking points on cue. We never expected it to be
universally covered or universally praised, but you seem to have no
problem with the reverse being true.

Coal-bear flopped. Even your pet media couldn't pretend that he deserved
positive reviews.

But then you already know all this and will once again come up with
your own spin that has absolutely nothing to do with the truth, like
you'll say I'm projecting (when you do nothing but project when
talking about Democrats and liberals).

CBS did a whole puff piece on 60 Minutes. I guess that wasn't enough
fawning to satisfy the librul need to be the center of attention?
I wonder whether there is any limit to the narcissism on the Left.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Master of Orion 3 lives!
Patch 1.2.5 - http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/patch071803.html
Strawberry Mod - http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=142
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
.
User: "towelie"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 04 May 2006 09:25:47 PM
Fred Stone wrote:

Mark_Reichert@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1146769601.189908.272890@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies
and


http://www.bartcop.com/tt-moonbat.jpg

Fred's just doing his bit to waste our time talking with a brick
wall.


Hey, if you don't like being called a moonbat, don't act like one.

BTW, Fred, as you already know, the whole flap about Colbert's Roast
of Bush is that the mainstream media universally tried to ignore it
then universally panned it, just like you right wingers universally
spout off talking points on cue. We never expected it to be
universally covered or universally praised, but you seem to have no
problem with the reverse being true.


Coal-bear flopped.

Anti-French racism noted.

Even your pet media couldn't pretend that he
deserved positive reviews.

Colbert is almost always funny. You and your right-wing buddies simply
don't have sophisticated senses of humor that are needed to enjoy his humor.
Go watch "Larry the Cable Guy" and leave the funny stuff to us.
.
User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Fred Uses the M word (Re: Truthiness) 04 May 2006 08:51:12 PM
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:S_udnYsU4ZI0KsfZnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@centurytel.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

Mark_Reichert@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1146769601.189908.272890@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

insane enough to run with moonbat weirdness about 9/11 conspiracies
and


http://www.bartcop.com/tt-moonbat.jpg

Fred's just doing his bit to waste our time talking with a brick
wall.


Hey, if you don't like being called a moonbat, don't act like one.

BTW, Fred, as you already know, the whole flap about Colbert's Roast
of Bush is that the mainstream media universally tried to ignore it
then universally panned it, just like you right wingers universally
spout off talking points on cue. We never expected it to be
universally covered or universally praised, but you seem to have no
problem with the reverse being true.


Coal-bear flopped.


Anti-French racism noted.

Moonbat stupidity noted.

Even your pet media couldn't pretend that he
deserved positive reviews.


Colbert is almost always funny. You and your right-wing buddies
simply don't have sophisticated senses of humor that are needed to
enjoy his humor. Go watch "Larry the Cable Guy" and leave the funny
stuff to us.

Emperor's New Clothes Fallacy noted.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Master of Orion 3 lives!
Patch 1.2.5 - http://moo3.quicksilver.com/official/patch071803.html
Strawberry Mod - http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=142
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
.





User: "johac"

Title: Re: Truthiness 04 May 2006 12:37:02 AM
In article <dsumi3-lng.ln1@nazg.milo.org>,
"Craig Pennington" <cpenning@milo.org> wrote:

johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
[snip]

These dinners and 'roasts' happen all the time. The speakers always take
jabs at the big shots present. I really can't understand why the
righties are so upset. This wasn't even a real news story until all of
the righties started pissing and moaning about it.


Anger is the prope