Turbulence, the big bang and proofs of god



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "wbarwell"
Date: 05 May 2006 05:04:56 PM
Object: Turbulence, the big bang and proofs of god
http://www.aas.org/publications/baas/v36n5/aas205/721.htm
AAS 205th Meeting, 9-13 January 2005
Session 123 Matter on the Largest Scales
Oral, Wednesday, January 12, 2005, 10:00-11:30am, Sunrise
Previous | Session 123 | Next
[123.04] Fossils of big bang turbulence
C. H. Gibson (UCSD)
A model is proposed connecting turbulence, fossil turbulence, and the big
bang origin of the universe. While details are incomplete, the model is
consistent with our knowledge of these processes and is supported by
observations. Turbulence arises in a hot-big-bang
quantum-gravitational-dynamics scenario at Planck scales. Chaotic,
eddy-like-motions produce an exothermic Planck particle cascade from 10-35
m at 1032 K to 108 larger, 104 cooler, quark-gluon scales. A Planck-Kerr
instability gives high-Reynolds-number (Re~106) turbulent combustion,
space-time-energy-entropy and turbulent mixing. Batchelor-Obukhov-Corrsin
turbulent-temperature fluctuations are preserved as the first
fossil-turbulence by inflation stretching the patterns beyond the horizon
ct of causal connection faster than light speed c in time t~10-33 seconds.
Fossil-big-bang-temperature-turbulence re-enters the horizon and imprints
nucleosynthesis of H-He densities that seed fragmentation by gravity at
1012 s in the low Reynolds number plasma before its transition to gas at
t~1013 s and T~3000 K. Multi-scaling coefficients of the
cosmic-microwave-background (CMB) temperature anisotropies closely match
those for high Reynolds number turbulence, Bershadskii and Sreenivasan
2002, 2003. CMB spectra support the interpretation that
big-bang-turbulence-fossils triggered fragmentation of the viscous plasma
at supercluster to galaxy mass scales from 1046 to 1042 kg, Gibson 1996,
2000, 2004ab.
-------------
There are a fair number of articles to be found on turbulence and the big
bang. What does this have to do with god? St. Aquinas, following
Aristotle, who was following the leads of pre-Socratics like Anaximander
noticed motion in the world, (planets, comets, sun, moon) and decided since
things moved they needed a prime mover. By the time of Xenophanes,
theology had crept into Greek speculations, and the prime mover became god.
God as the prime mover created movement, which was proof god existed, which
became one of the classical 'proofs' of theology about the timne of Aquinas
who made it one of his "Five ways", proofs of god.
Turbulence has long been called the last major problem of classical physics.
But a lot of progress has been made in understanding turbulence.
But from expanding gases of quarks and then matter, turbulence naturally
arises and this motiion imparted by turbulence becomes an intristic part of
the Universe's physics, footprints of original turbulence can been seen
in the post-inflation Universe by such satellites as WMAP.
In fact proving inflation occured.
But with this, th eidea god is needed to impart motion to the Universe
is dead. It was never relly a good "proof" anyway and was widely criticized
on other grounds, but I realized we could do that directly by showing
that indeed turbulence in expanding gases pre-inflation was more
than enough to show god is superflous in the case of motion.
Of course the atomists of the early Greek philosophers had no need
of god to explain motion, motion was an intristic part of atoms, and all
movement came from that. Which is true. Of course light, photons
have intristic movement and in a still Universe of matter, atoms, would
soon put them into motion anyway.
But the intristic turbulence of the expanding big bang would account for
movement lacking photons. As matter froze out of quarks as effective
temperature dropped, they were very hot, had velocity due to movement from
energy, and packed together would soon develop turbulence and thus
movement.
So Aquinas's 1st way, a prime mover giving motion to the Universe is dead
half a dozen ways.
The big bang, inflation and turbulence is simply the final nail in the
coffin of Aquinas's first way, Aristotle's, prime mover argument.
"Just because you don't take an interest in politics
doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you."
- Pericles
Cheerful Charlie
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Turbulence, the big bang and proofs of god 06 May 2006 02:34:25 AM
In article <125niqt7394bgfc@corp.supernews.com>,
wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

http://www.aas.org/publications/baas/v36n5/aas205/721.htm

AAS 205th Meeting, 9-13 January 2005
Session 123 Matter on the Largest Scales
Oral, Wednesday, January 12, 2005, 10:00-11:30am, Sunrise

Previous | Session 123 | Next

[123.04] Fossils of big bang turbulence

C. H. Gibson (UCSD)

A model is proposed connecting turbulence, fossil turbulence, and the big
bang origin of the universe. While details are incomplete, the model is
consistent with our knowledge of these processes and is supported by
observations. Turbulence arises in a hot-big-bang
quantum-gravitational-dynamics scenario at Planck scales. Chaotic,
eddy-like-motions produce an exothermic Planck particle cascade from 10-35
m at 1032 K to 108 larger, 104 cooler, quark-gluon scales. A Planck-Kerr
instability gives high-Reynolds-number (Re~106) turbulent combustion,
space-time-energy-entropy and turbulent mixing. Batchelor-Obukhov-Corrsin
turbulent-temperature fluctuations are preserved as the first
fossil-turbulence by inflation stretching the patterns beyond the horizon
ct of causal connection faster than light speed c in time t~10-33 seconds.
Fossil-big-bang-temperature-turbulence re-enters the horizon and imprints
nucleosynthesis of H-He densities that seed fragmentation by gravity at
1012 s in the low Reynolds number plasma before its transition to gas at
t~1013 s and T~3000 K. Multi-scaling coefficients of the
cosmic-microwave-background (CMB) temperature anisotropies closely match
those for high Reynolds number turbulence, Bershadskii and Sreenivasan
2002, 2003. CMB spectra support the interpretation that
big-bang-turbulence-fossils triggered fragmentation of the viscous plasma
at supercluster to galaxy mass scales from 1046 to 1042 kg, Gibson 1996,
2000, 2004ab.
-------------


There are a fair number of articles to be found on turbulence and the big
bang. What does this have to do with god? St. Aquinas, following
Aristotle, who was following the leads of pre-Socratics like Anaximander
noticed motion in the world, (planets, comets, sun, moon) and decided since
things moved they needed a prime mover. By the time of Xenophanes,
theology had crept into Greek speculations, and the prime mover became god.

God as the prime mover created movement, which was proof god existed, which
became one of the classical 'proofs' of theology about the timne of Aquinas
who made it one of his "Five ways", proofs of god.

Turbulence has long been called the last major problem of classical physics.
But a lot of progress has been made in understanding turbulence.

But from expanding gases of quarks and then matter, turbulence naturally
arises and this motiion imparted by turbulence becomes an intristic part of
the Universe's physics, footprints of original turbulence can been seen
in the post-inflation Universe by such satellites as WMAP.
In fact proving inflation occured.

But with this, th eidea god is needed to impart motion to the Universe
is dead. It was never relly a good "proof" anyway and was widely criticized
on other grounds, but I realized we could do that directly by showing
that indeed turbulence in expanding gases pre-inflation was more
than enough to show god is superflous in the case of motion.

Of course the atomists of the early Greek philosophers had no need
of god to explain motion, motion was an intristic part of atoms, and all
movement came from that. Which is true. Of course light, photons
have intristic movement and in a still Universe of matter, atoms, would
soon put them into motion anyway.

But the intristic turbulence of the expanding big bang would account for
movement lacking photons. As matter froze out of quarks as effective
temperature dropped, they were very hot, had velocity due to movement from
energy, and packed together would soon develop turbulence and thus
movement.

So Aquinas's 1st way, a prime mover giving motion to the Universe is dead
half a dozen ways.

The big bang, inflation and turbulence is simply the final nail in the
coffin of Aquinas's first way, Aristotle's, prime mover argument.

Interesting. I can't say that I understand all of the physics, but your
comments were plain enough. Knowledge grows, the 'god of the gaps' gets
smaller. Nice post.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.

User: "duke"

Title: Re: Turbulence, the big bang and proofs of god 06 May 2006 07:54:52 AM
On Fri, 05 May 2006 17:04:56 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:

But with this, th eidea god is needed to impart motion to the Universe
is dead.

But where the infinitely small point of mass of infinite density come from?
Answer - God did it.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.


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