| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"the Professor" |
| Date: |
14 Sep 2005 11:48:16 PM |
| Object: |
"under God" |
These are the type of issues that separate me from my liberal compatriots.
This is a naion made up of many different people of many different faiths.
Aetheists and agnostics comprise but a miniscule percentage of the
population, yet the wishes of the overwhelming majority of citizens would be
ignored if this court decision holds up. There are times when good old
common sense should prevail.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05258/571785.stm
'Pledge' in legal trouble
SAN FRANCISCO -- A federal judge yesterday declared the reciting of the
Pledge of Allegiance in public schools unconstitutional, a decision that
could put the divisive issue on track for another round of Supreme Court
arguments.
The case was brought by the same atheist whose previous battle against the
words "under God" was rejected last year by the Supreme Court on procedural
grounds.
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to
one nation "under God" violates schoolchildren's right to be "free from a
coercive requirement to affirm God."
Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow
that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 07:36:48 PM |
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On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:33:33 GMT, James Ascher <jwa1968@earthlink.net>
wrote:
moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com wrote:
ManMadeGod wrote:
Hey Jackass,
Before shooting off your dumbass mouth, consider this...
The original "pledge" did not include "under god". The K of C (a religious
men's organization) lobbied congress in 1957 to have the words "under god"
added to our original pledge. Thus, our government crossed the line and
added the christian "god" to our country pledge.
I guess then, the government also "crossed the line" when in our own
Declaration of Indpendence we announced that our rights come from our
CREATOR? Do you ever bother to think your own ***** through, MORON?
Didn't think so.
"Creator" is non-specific. Most religions believe in some Creator. The
founders were mostly Deists, not Christians.
I was created by my parents - it's poetic language for innate rights.
But for some reason religious extremists imagine that any mention of
"creator" means their deity.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
24 Sep 2005 06:51:55 PM |
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you wrote:
"Creator" is non-specific. Most religions believe in some Creator. The
founders were mostly Deists, not Christians.
No..........liberals have just convinced you they were Deists
When this country was formed we were Escaping Opression from not being
able to Worship as we want.
on JUne 17,1785
"the Bible is the rock on which this country stands" was a quote from
President Andrew Jackson
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| User: "Ahem!" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
27 Sep 2005 12:59:07 AM |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:51:55 -0500, UnlimitedEddie wrote:
you wrote:
"Creator" is non-specific. Most religions believe in some Creator. The
founders were mostly Deists, not Christians.
No..........liberals have just convinced you they were Deists When this
country was formed we were Escaping Opression from not being able to
Worship as we want.
on JUne 17,1785
"the Bible is the rock on which this country stands" was a quote from
President Andrew Jackson
Do you mean President Andrew Jackson, "Christian" the piece of *****
who ignored the Supreme Court's validation of the Cherokees' rights
to their lands and forced them west along the Trail of Tears--
killing four thousand of them?
Do you mean President Andrew Jackson, the right-wing lunatic who
wouldn't reauthorize the Bank of the United States--causing the
U.S. to have a major economic depression right after he left
office?
Besides Bush, Jackson was the most provably insane president
in U.S. history. Are you sure you want to use Jackson's beliefs
to support your arguments?
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
27 Sep 2005 08:58:00 AM |
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On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:59:07 GMT, Ahem!
<bogus-address-provided@example.com> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:51:55 -0500, UnlimitedEddie wrote:
you wrote:
"Creator" is non-specific. Most religions believe in some Creator. The
founders were mostly Deists, not Christians.
No..........liberals have just convinced you they were Deists When this
country was formed we were Escaping Opression from not being able to
Worship as we want.
on JUne 17,1785
"the Bible is the rock on which this country stands" was a quote from
President Andrew Jackson
Do you mean President Andrew Jackson, "Christian" the piece of *****
who ignored the Supreme Court's validation of the Cherokees' rights
to their lands and forced them west along the Trail of Tears--
killing four thousand of them?
There was no "trail of tears"... what ever you think it was. The
courts would never do something that would kill 4 thousand indians!
You're just more Liberal-lying scum! ;-)
Do you mean President Andrew Jackson, the right-wing lunatic who
wouldn't reauthorize the Bank of the United States--causing the
U.S. to have a major economic depression right after he left
office?
What? You can't blame a PAST president for a currently bad economy!
Jackson was a financial genious and literally hundreds of company
owners made MILLIONS during that supposed "depression". LIAR!!!
Besides Bush, Jackson was the most provably insane president
in U.S. history. Are you sure you want to use Jackson's beliefs
to support your arguments?
Insanity is such a loaded word, dont' you think? Let's call it...
Hm... Conservative.
James, Seattle
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 10:21:17 AM |
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wrote:
ManMadeGod wrote:
Hey Jackass,
Before shooting off your dumbass mouth, consider this...
The original "pledge" did not include "under god". The K of C (a religious
men's organization) lobbied congress in 1957 to have the words "under god"
added to our original pledge. Thus, our government crossed the line and
added the christian "god" to our country pledge.
I guess then, the government also "crossed the line" when in our own
Declaration of Indpendence we announced that our rights come from our
CREATOR? Do you ever bother to think your own ***** through, MORON?
Didn't think so.
The Declaration of Independence is not a law passed by Congress.
The issue here is whether the law made by Congress that mandates
government employees to lead school children in chants of "Under God"
over and over billions of times (over 100 billion times and counting)
violates the Constitution where it says "Congress shall make no law
respecting the establishment of religion"
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| User: "Evolvocrat" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 11:23:11 AM |
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wrote:
moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com wrote:
ManMadeGod wrote:
Hey Jackass,
Before shooting off your dumbass mouth, consider this...
The original "pledge" did not include "under god". The K of C (a religious
men's organization) lobbied congress in 1957 to have the words "under god"
added to our original pledge. Thus, our government crossed the line and
added the christian "god" to our country pledge.
I guess then, the government also "crossed the line" when in our own
Declaration of Indpendence we announced that our rights come from our
CREATOR? Do you ever bother to think your own ***** through, MORON?
Didn't think so.
The Declaration of Independence is not a law passed by Congress.
The issue here is whether the law made by Congress that mandates
government employees to lead school children in chants of "Under God"
over and over billions of times (over 100 billion times and counting)
violates the Constitution where it says "Congress shall make no law
respecting the establishment of religion"
The Fundies always like to bring up the Declaration of Independence, but
it is not a legal document. It was written before the Articles of
Confederation and the subsequent Constitution was ratified. Fundies also
like to quote the Founding Fathers, but omit quotes of Thomas Jefferson
and Benjamin Franklin who distrusted organized religion.
The Constitution was ratified in 1787, 11 years after the Declaration of
Independence was written. It is the law of the land and the words Jesus,
God, Christ and Christian are not in this document. Religion is
addressed in the first amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting
an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
This referred to as the Establishment Clause and has been debated in
court cases over the years. A good discussion is at
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/estabinto.htm
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| User: "moorehead" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 08:30:28 PM |
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Evolvocrat wrote:
tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:
moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com wrote:
ManMadeGod wrote:
Hey Jackass,
Before shooting off your dumbass mouth, consider this...
The original "pledge" did not include "under god". The K of C (a religious
men's organization) lobbied congress in 1957 to have the words "under god"
added to our original pledge. Thus, our government crossed the line and
added the christian "god" to our country pledge.
I guess then, the government also "crossed the line" when in our own
Declaration of Indpendence we announced that our rights come from our
CREATOR? Do you ever bother to think your own ***** through, MORON?
Didn't think so.
The Declaration of Independence is not a law passed by Congress.
The issue here is whether the law made by Congress that mandates
government employees to lead school children in chants of "Under God"
over and over billions of times (over 100 billion times and counting)
violates the Constitution where it says "Congress shall make no law
respecting the establishment of religion"
The Fundies always like to bring up the Declaration of Independence, but
it is not a legal document. It was written before the Articles of
Confederation and the subsequent Constitution was ratified. Fundies also
like to quote the Founding Fathers, but omit quotes of Thomas Jefferson
and Benjamin Franklin who distrusted organized religion.
The Constitution was ratified in 1787, 11 years after the Declaration of
Independence was written. It is the law of the land and the words Jesus,
God, Christ and Christian are not in this document. Religion is
addressed in the first amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting
an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
This referred to as the Establishment Clause and has been debated in
court cases over the years. A good discussion is at
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/estabinto.htm
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more. It
was a document that very clearly demonstrated the feelings of the
founders at the time - many of whom were also around eleven years later
when the Constitution was ratified.
The same group of folks who declared that rights were bestowed upon man
by their Creator were also worried, to be sure, of a "Church of
England" springing up in the new homeland called America. They
ensured such a thing would never happen by explicitly forbidding the
establishment of a state religion, but this doesn't change the fact
that all historical evidence indicates the framers were deeply relgious
men who also made sure that the right to freely express a belief in God
was equally protected. They opened the first sessions of Congress with
prayer. The president was sworn in to office with a bible. References
to God abound in document after document, paper after paper, letter
after letter, writing after writing - all showing that the vast, vast
majority of early American statesmen believed in God.
With the leftists atheists having succeeded in the last 40-50 years
using courts to accomplish what they couldn't accomplish at the ballot
box, it's important that this argument is framed properly. The pledge,
with the words "under God", first and foremost is NOT required to be
recited by ANYONE who doesn't wish to do so. No one holds a gun to
anyone's head - it is a completely voluntary tradition among American
middle schools that dates back decades. Secondly, not even by the most
tortured stretch of any leftist atheist's imagination do the words
"under God" in a pledge of allegience Constitute the establishment of a
state religion. Thirdly (and this one is my favorite), leftists
atheists, and anyone else for that matter, don't have a
Constitutionally-protected right NOT to be offended - and that's the
argument you're left with. The words "under God" offend you. So
sorry. Try not to cry yourself to sleep over it, but guess what - lots
of things offend lots of people every day in this country, and they
manage to live with it.
Lefties, it's a pledge, for crying out loud. No one is taking away
your right to hate religion - suck it up and deal.
mj
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 08:44:42 AM |
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In alt.atheism On 15 Sep 2005 18:30:28 -0700, "moorehead"
<moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com> let us all know that:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia
And what about the atheist anarchocapitalists? The ones who
actually know what socialism is (unlike you) and know why it sucks.
With the leftists atheists having succeeded in the last 40-50 years
using courts to accomplish what they couldn't accomplish at the ballot
box, it's important that this argument is framed properly. The pledge,
with the words "under God",
....was added in 1954. It was not originally written with
those words in it.
So the rightist nazi fascist theocrats had it added.
Why don't you just suck it up and deal that the words
shouldn't be there.
Don
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 12:37:19 AM |
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moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray, dumbfuck. I wont even adress the rest of your
psychobabble. Well, maybe later.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "moorehead" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 06:57:49 PM |
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nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
17 Sep 2005 01:29:55 AM |
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"moorehead" <moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126915069.366544.181840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
prayer
1 a (1) : an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought
<said a prayer for the success of the voyage> (2) : a set order of words
used in praying b : an earnest request or wish
2 : the act or practice of praying to God or a god <kneeling in prayer>
3 : a religious service consisting chiefly of prayers -- often used in
plural
4 : something prayed for
5 : a slight chance <haven't got a prayer> [m-w.com]
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| User: "Paul Erickson" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
24 Sep 2005 03:19:36 PM |
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On 16 Sep 2005 16:57:49 -0700, "moorehead"
<moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
You're stretching the meaning of prayer quite a bit, aren't you? Are
you also one of those who also thinks everybody worships a god, since
anything they respect, admire, or aspire to counts as a god?
Just asking
BTW: I'm an atheist, but I don't expect man or anything else to bring
a utopia. It will never happen. I do believe and hope that things
will improve, since there will always be room for improvement. But
hoping for something is not the same as _praying for it. Can we agree
that hoping is not the same as prayer??
Slobbering Skeleton
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 08:43:58 PM |
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moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
17 Sep 2005 01:33:08 AM |
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"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:dgfs36$9d5$1@news.xmission.com...
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray. Prayer
alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really simple.
I went to private Catholic school before becoming (because of?) an atheist.
I've never even HEARD of someone "praying for a secular utopia," let alone
done it.
The stupidity of prayer was one reason I became an atheist. What's the point
of having a god who needs asskissing on a regular basis? Why ask a god for
something when he only does his own "will" anyway?
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
17 Sep 2005 10:54:59 PM |
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Roger wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:dgfs36$9d5$1@news.xmission.com...
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray. Prayer
alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really simple.
I went to private Catholic school before becoming (because of?) an atheist.
Me too. It was sometime in 5th grade that I started asking questions
that they said shouldn't be asked. I started public school in 8th grade.
I've never even HEARD of someone "praying for a secular utopia," let alone
done it.
The stupidity of prayer was one reason I became an atheist. What's the point
of having a god who needs asskissing on a regular basis? Why ask a god for
something when he only does his own "will" anyway?
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
18 Sep 2005 01:15:03 AM |
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"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:dgio4c$72e$1@news.xmission.com...
Roger wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:dgfs36$9d5$1@news.xmission.com...
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
I went to private Catholic school before becoming (because of?) an
atheist.
Me too. It was sometime in 5th grade that I started asking questions that
they said shouldn't be asked. I started public school in 8th grade.
I started public school in 9th.
I had been wondering about a lot of things throughout school and church.
There were too many contradictions. I just couldn't believe all these adults
didn't see these problems.
I've never even HEARD of someone "praying for a secular utopia," let
alone done it.
The stupidity of prayer was one reason I became an atheist. What's the
point of having a god who needs asskissing on a regular basis? Why ask a
god for something when he only does his own "will" anyway?
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
18 Sep 2005 09:47:25 PM |
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Roger wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:dgio4c$72e$1@news.xmission.com...
Roger wrote:
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:dgfs36$9d5$1@news.xmission.com...
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
I went to private Catholic school before becoming (because of?) an
atheist.
Me too. It was sometime in 5th grade that I started asking questions that
they said shouldn't be asked. I started public school in 8th grade.
I started public school in 9th.
I had been wondering about a lot of things throughout school and church.
There were too many contradictions. I just couldn't believe all these adults
didn't see these problems.
They don't want to see them. They need to believe in something and are
willing to forsake logic to do so.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
.
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| User: "Fubbi Quantz" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
18 Sep 2005 12:58:55 PM |
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Somewhere out beyond the BigBang Horizon God lies awake nights worrying
about the omission of the "under God" phrase from the pledge. His
power & glory & omnipotence & omniscience & imminence will be
irreparably damaged; and He might even have to resign the office.
Beware, mortals.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
18 Sep 2005 02:28:52 PM |
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Fubbi Quantz wrote:
Somewhere out beyond the BigBang Horizon God lies awake nights
worrying
about the omission of the "under God" phrase from the pledge.
His power & glory & omnipotence & omniscience & imminence will
be
irreparably damaged; and He might even have to resign the
office. Beware, mortals.
Eventually he will be pensioned off and will reside
at the Old Gods' Home. At least they have Bingo on Friday
nights.
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
18 Sep 2005 06:46:02 PM |
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Fubbi Quantz wrote:
Somewhere out beyond the BigBang Horizon God lies awake nights worrying
about the omission of the "under God" phrase from the pledge. His
power & glory & omnipotence & omniscience & imminence will be
irreparably damaged; and He might even have to resign the office.
Beware, mortals.
*snortle*
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth *
* and nothing but the truth; so help me me." *
* --George Burns as God *
****************************************************
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| User: "moorehead" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
20 Sep 2005 11:10:40 PM |
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nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
For purposes of clarity, the words "pray" and "wish" are
interchangeable. For example, atheists across the country probably
wished Kerry would have beaten Bush in the election, yes? Theists, on
the other hand, were praying to God that Bush would win.
Aside from the fact that those who prayed got their wish, clearly,
those who wished for a different election result were betting on a MAN,
not God, to deliver for them.
It's really simple.
mj
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| User: "Mike" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
21 Sep 2005 02:24:01 PM |
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nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
For purposes of clarity, the words "pray" and "wish" are
interchangeable.
No, they are not. If I flip a coin and "wish" it lands on heads, there
is no reason for me to believe the outcome will change in my favor
because I "wished it." But, for Christians, if they prayed for it to
land on heads, they would expect god to reach down and make that coin
land on heads.
If you meant "wished" then you should have said "wished" instead of
"prayed." If they meant the same thing, there would not be TWO
DIFFERENT WORDS with TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS.
For example, atheists across the country probably
wished Kerry would have beaten Bush in the election, yes? Theists, on
the other hand, were praying to God that Bush would win.
Aside from the fact that those who prayed got their wish, clearly,
those who wished for a different election result were betting on a MAN,
not God, to deliver for them.
It's really simple.
mj
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| User: "Sid9" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
21 Sep 2005 04:30:07 PM |
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Mike wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular,
socialist utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of
Independence as if it were simply graffitti on a bathroom
wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's
really simple.
For purposes of clarity, the words "pray" and "wish" are
interchangeable.
No, they are not. If I flip a coin and "wish" it lands on heads,
there is no reason for me to believe the outcome will change in my
favor because I "wished it." But, for Christians, if they prayed for
it to land on heads, they would expect god to reach down and make
that coin land on heads.
If you meant "wished" then you should have said "wished" instead of
"prayed." If they meant the same thing, there would not be TWO
DIFFERENT WORDS with TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS.
For example, atheists across the country probably
wished Kerry would have beaten Bush in the election, yes? Theists,
on the other hand, were praying to God that Bush would win.
Aside from the fact that those who prayed got their wish, clearly,
those who wished for a different election result were betting on a
MAN, not God, to deliver for them.
It's really simple.
mj
Close....neither is effective
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
21 Sep 2005 12:14:47 AM |
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moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
For purposes of clarity, the words "pray" and "wish" are
interchangeable. For example, atheists across the country probably
wished Kerry would have beaten Bush in the election, yes? Theists, on
the other hand, were praying to God that Bush would win.
Aside from the fact that those who prayed got their wish, clearly,
those who wished for a different election result were betting on a MAN,
not God, to deliver for them.
It's really simple.
mj
Yes, for simple minds.
--
Jack
Plonked by Native American
bobo1148atxmissiondotcom
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xmissionbobo/
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| User: "moorehead" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
21 Sep 2005 12:20:38 AM |
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nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
mj
Yes, after too many years in a private school. Atheists don't pray.
Prayer alone would remove them from the ranks of atheists. It's really
simple.
For purposes of clarity, the words "pray" and "wish" are
interchangeable. For example, atheists across the country probably
wished Kerry would have beaten Bush in the election, yes? Theists, on
the other hand, were praying to God that Bush would win.
Aside from the fact that those who prayed got their wish, clearly,
those who wished for a different election result were betting on a MAN,
not God, to deliver for them.
It's really simple.
mj
Yes, for simple minds.
Which is why I took the extraordinary steps of explaining everything in
detail to the atheists here....
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 10:16:57 PM |
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moorehead wrote:
nJb wrote:
moorehead wrote:
Letist atheists who pray to man to bring them a secular, socialist
utopia love to simply dismiss the Declaration of Independence as if it
were simply graffitti on a bathroom wall....it was much, much more.
Atheists don't pray,
Sure they do...they pray for man to bring them a secular utopia.
That's not praying.
Philosophy 101. Public school graduate, are ya?
I'm a public school graduate. Tell me, why do you believe that atheists
"pray?"
mj
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "If God had intended us to walk, he wouldn't *
* have invented roller skates." --Willy Wonka *
****************************************************
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 10:19:30 AM |
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In article <1126797002.821229.110310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> "moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com" <moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com> writes:
ManMadeGod wrote:
Hey Jackass,
Before shooting off your dumbass mouth, consider this...
The original "pledge" did not include "under god". The K of C (a religious
men's organization) lobbied congress in 1957 to have the words "under god"
added to our original pledge. Thus, our government crossed the line and
added the christian "god" to our country pledge.
I guess then, the government also "crossed the line" when in our own
Declaration of Indpendence we announced that our rights come from our
CREATOR?
What "the government"? There was no "United States" whatsoever
at that point, let alone a government thereof. The Declaration
was a piece of wartime propaganda, designed to put a positive
face on an illegal civil rebellion and, hopefully, garner foreign
support, particularly French support, for the insurrection.
-- cary
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 10:31:26 AM |
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On 15 Sep 2005 08:10:02 -0700, "moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com"
<moorehead_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote:
ManMadeGod wrote:
Hey Jackass,
Before shooting off your dumbass mouth, consider this...
The original "pledge" did not include "under god". The K of C (a religious
men's organization) lobbied congress in 1957 to have the words "under god"
added to our original pledge. Thus, our government crossed the line and
added the christian "god" to our country pledge.
I guess then, the government also "crossed the line" when in our own
Declaration of Indpendence we announced that our rights come from our
CREATOR? Do you ever bother to think your own ***** through, MORON?
Didn't think so.
For starters, the DofE is not the Constitution, but in any case they
did not say what you pretend. It was "endowed by THEIR creator" which
is poetic language for innate rights. We were all created by our
parents, not by your religion's deity.
Before you insist to the less ignorant than you, that it is "our
creator" you have to prove it.
Which you can't.
Because it is merely your religious belief, which is your own business
and would be of no concern to everybody else if you didn't try to use
the government to impose it.
Which the framers of the constitution tried to prevent.
The Constitution makes no mention of religion except to guarantee the
INDIVIDUAL's freedom of conscience. The government can make no law
concerning an establishment of religion, nor can there be any
religious test for office.
Eisenhower's unconstitutional addition to the pledge is a statement by
the government that the nation is no longer governed by "we the
people" but by an imaginary being that you sociopaths want to impose
on everybody else.
When he signed it into law, he said ""From this day forward the
millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim . . . the
dedication of our Nation and our people to
the Almighty." 100 Cong. Rec. 8617 (1954).
This clearly has no secular intent, and is clearly meant to make
children of non-Christian religions, not just atheists, proclaim the
dedication of their nation to the deity of SOMEBODY ELSE's religion.
It imposes YOUR religion on the rest of us.
No, they didn't.
Maybe you would be much happier in Saudi Arabia, under a Theocracy, because
you seem miserable living under a democracy that promotes freedom of/from
religion.
Saudi sounds like the liberal utopia - an overreaching govenment that
makes your decisions for you, including what religion you can (or
can't) believe in, and basically emsasculates you to the point of being
a walking, hairy ***** with no ability to think for youself.
I'll bet you're already packing.
mj
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 02:51:21 PM |
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In <4fadnanQvoQRYLXeRVn-iw@giganews.com>, "the Professor"
<university@volcanomail.com> wrote:
These are the type of issues that separate me from my liberal compatriots.
This is a naion made up of many different people of many different faiths.
Aetheists and agnostics comprise but a miniscule percentage of the
population, yet the wishes of the overwhelming majority of citizens would
be ignored if this court decision holds up. There are times when good old
common sense should prevail.
Yeah like the Constitution. You've heard of it maybe?
(What the *hell is an "aetheist" anyway?)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: "under God" |
15 Sep 2005 09:34:11 AM |
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In alt.atheism On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:48:16 -0400, "the Professor"
<university@volcanomail.com> let us all know that:
These are the type of issues that separate me from my liberal compatriots.
This is a naion made up of many different people of many different faiths.
Aetheists and agnostics comprise but a miniscule percentage of the
population, yet the wishes of the overwhelming majority of citizens would be
ignored if this court decision holds up. There are times when good old
common sense should prevail.
Common sense...isn't.
The majority does not have the right to trample on the rights
of the minority.
Don
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