University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"+Church of The Painful Truth+"
Date:	15 May 2004 10:34:03 PM
Object:	University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion

University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion
Evolution: Dawkins vs. Gould
By Jonathan Sampson
Recently I had attended a "Free Thinkers" open forum on evolutionary theory
presented by Dr. Ferguson of the University of Western Florida. I will
commend Dr. Ferguson for a well-put presentation that was very intriguing
and educational. I feel she did a very wonderful job presenting the
information provided by both men. Also present this evening was Dr. Jay E
Gould who is an associate professor of Psychology and is also very
intelligent. When Dr. Ferguson had finished her speech on the "tree of life"
in regards to Steven J. Gould's perspective, Richard Dawkins' perspective,
and additionally, Bart Simpson's perspective (i.e. Protozoa's evolving into
newts; and newts into fig newton's) the presentation had come to a
conclusion and the Question and Answers session had begun.
As I sat in the back row and listened to the many questions that were
wrapped and shipped with a presupposition that evolution (in the sense of
protozoa's to men) has occurred I was warm-hearted when a woman in the back
of the room raised her hand and stated that she was a Christian. She then
stated that she was uncomfortable with this "theory" being presented as a
"fact" to our children and asked that the professors present her with
"empirical facts" that would support such an idea. Gladly, Dr. Ferguson
started explaining antibiotic resistance and it's support for
macroevolution. A couple other questions were then asked and answered by the
professors just before I raised my hand and asked a question that went
somewhat like the following:
"I had read much of Gould's work and also Dawkins' work and I understand
that Gould with his theory of punctuated equilibrium has a small problem
with stasis. For example the Coelacanth that was found not too long ago
thought to have gone extinct some 250+/- million years ago is now found in
colonies; more recently the Tuatara, which is also known as a "living
fossil". How does Dawkins approach such things?"
In response to my question, Dr. Ferguson made a comment somewhat like the
following,
"Evolution is observed to happen in fluctuations, ups and downs, moving
forward and backwards with mass extinctions and the like. For example we can
observe Darwin's finches on the Galapagos Islands and the effect the
atmospheric changes have on their beaks. During wet seasons they are
smaller; and during dry seasons they are larger. So we can see that
evolution is not always a constant uphill effect; often a down hill
mechanism."
(ed. Note: The above quote is not exact; paraphrased from memory)
Following her response I asked how this type of observation justifies us in
concluding a colony of parameciums can eventually give rise to a colony of
humans when all we observe are predominantly fluctuations within different
types of creatures. It was about this time that Dr. Jay E. Gould entered
into the discussion and made a comment to the effect of
"We don't just see fluctuations within populations; we can look back through
the fossil record and see actual changes. Lets take the evolution of the
whale for example. We can see how it has changed over time and is now as we
see today."
(ed. Note: the above is a paraphrased version of Gould's response)
With this I commented that no post-cranial skeletal structures were found
when Pakicetus was discovered. Hardly anything was found at all to be
completely honest. A few pieces of a wolf-like skull were found and the
inner ear resembled that of a modern day whale's inner ear. This was the
evidence that Pakicetus is an ancestor to today's whale. I then asked how we
can logically come to the conclusion that Pakicetus is an ancestor to today'
s modern whale when the findings were very scarce and actually resembling a
wolf-like animal instead of an aquatic creature.
Dr. Gould then made the comment that I had obviously read into what we were
discussing and was then interrupted by Dr. Ferguson who I do believe made
the comment that we were getting off the subject or outside of biological
discussion. I still to this point do not understand what I said that was
outside of the parent topic of discussion but I was unable to get a clear
answer from either of the two how they can logically come to such
conclusions with such "evidence".
Soon thereafter the presentation in a whole had ended and the audience was
free to snacks and refreshments. I made my way over to Dr. Gould to speak
more with him and unfortunately I cannot recall what exactly was said from
either of us. I found myself speaking with another gentleman whose name was
Scott. Scott was the organizer of the discussion and also an atheist from
what I recall. Scott then went on to discuss religion and the like when I
interrupted him and asked why he was talking about religion when I asked
science-based questions. Apparently when I had asked my questions; I made it
known where I work and that was enough to discredit everything I had asked.
Other than stating my name and work location; I made no implications to
religious or dogmatic ideas or theories. This however was enough for Scott
to effortlessly attempt to drag the discussion to religious grounds over and
over. Scott did make it known that he is more equipped to discuss religion
on the spot as opposed to evolutionary history and "evidences" used to
support it.
I stated clearly that I wasn't at the evolutionary discussion to speak or
defend religion; but instead to challenge evolutionary theory and the
supporters of it. Nonetheless, Scott continued to change the subject to
religion. Shortly there after, two Christians who also shared my view
confronted me and we had a wonderful discussion. Both, familiar with Dr.
Hovind and Creation Science Evangelism openly expressed their relief to see
another Christian in attendance. We spoke for a few minutes and then we all
left the conference room.
This was my first personal "debate" with professors and I honestly feel
compelled to state that I am deeply unimpressed. Not only were my questions
left unanswered; but also they were merely shrugged off in attempts to
change the subject. Without making any religious implications (aside from my
introduction) I was instantly stereotyped as being "religious" for simply
and effectively questioning the "sacred cow" of evolution.
In short, evolution has become a god to many. It has adapted the first of
the Ten Commandments that God gave to us, "Have no other Gods before me".
Evolutionists have taken this into effect with their pagan religion and when
confronted with evidence against their theory; they fall upon this first
commandment and rebuke any "free thinking". This is a sad truth
--
The Atheist Fools Network
http://www.users.qwest.net/~araymond5/
"Few men are so obstinate in their atheism, that a pressing danger will not
compel them to acknowledgment of a divine power....."
Plato
"Atheism is a disease of the soul before it becomes an error of
understanding....."
Plato
"No one ever dies an atheist....."
Plato
_____________________________
Access Research Network
http://www.arn.org/
American Scientific Affiliation
http://www.asa3.org/
Answers in Genesis
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
Associates for Biblical Research
http://www.ChristianAnswers.net/abr/abrhome.html
Association of Christian Astronomers International
http://www.christian-astronomers.org/
Affiliation of Christian Geologists
http://www.wheaton.edu/ACG/
Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences
http://www.ctns.org/
Christian Geology Ministry
http://www.kjvbible.org/
.

User: "Adam Ritthaler"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	15 May 2004 10:57:43 PM

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?
.

User: "James Chapman"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	15 May 2004 11:24:42 PM

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10adq2qnov60b29@corp.supernews.com...

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact. A quick
visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr. Dino's
site. My, what a small world.
http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89
.

User: "Boikat"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	15 May 2004 11:48:18 PM

"James Chapman" <jchapman033@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10adrlfb250lr17@corp.supernews.com...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10adq2qnov60b29@corp.supernews.com...

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact. A quick
visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr. Dino's
site. My, what a small world.

http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89

If it was anti-science, was patheticlay stupid, shown to be wrong using
common sense, I automatically assume it's Hovind.
Boikat

User: "Adam Ritthaler"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 12:58:34 AM

"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:jsCpc.25684$U4.7256@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

"James Chapman" <jchapman033@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10adrlfb250lr17@corp.supernews.com...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10adq2qnov60b29@corp.supernews.com...

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact. A quick
visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr. Dino's
site. My, what a small world.

http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89

If it was anti-science, was patheticlay stupid, shown to be wrong using
common sense, I automatically assume it's Hovind.

Boikat

Yeah, this should have given it away:
"Shortly there after, two Christians who also shared my view
confronted me and we had a wonderful discussion. Both, familiar with Dr.
Hovind and Creation Science Evangelism openly expressed their relief to see
another Christian in attendance"
Kind of sickens me that Hovind and his followers consider themselves
christians. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that none of this actually
occured?
.

User: "Boikat"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 01:11:41 AM

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10ae15fq7674160@corp.supernews.com...

"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:jsCpc.25684$U4.7256@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

"James Chapman" <jchapman033@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10adrlfb250lr17@corp.supernews.com...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10adq2qnov60b29@corp.supernews.com...

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact. A

quick

visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr.

Dino's

site. My, what a small world.

http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89

If it was anti-science, was patheticlay stupid, shown to be wrong using
common sense, I automatically assume it's Hovind.

Boikat

see

another Christian in attendance"
Kind of sickens me that Hovind and his followers consider themselves
christians. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that none of this

actually

occured?

Like the conversation he claimed to have had on a airline with a Berkley
"professor" about the Big Bang. Berkley? Could have been a professor of
underwater basket weaving for all anyone knows.
Boikat

User: "Adam Ritthaler"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 11:52:04 AM

"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:HEDpc.36868$su1.34699@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10ae15fq7674160@corp.supernews.com...

"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:jsCpc.25684$U4.7256@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

"James Chapman" <jchapman033@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10adrlfb250lr17@corp.supernews.com...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10adq2qnov60b29@corp.supernews.com...

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact. A

quick

visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr.

Dino's

site. My, what a small world.

http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89

If it was anti-science, was patheticlay stupid, shown to be wrong

using

common sense, I automatically assume it's Hovind.

Boikat

see

another Christian in attendance"
Kind of sickens me that Hovind and his followers consider themselves
christians. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that none of this

actually

occured?

Like the conversation he claimed to have had on a airline with a Berkley
"professor" about the Big Bang. Berkley? Could have been a professor of
underwater basket weaving for all anyone knows.

Boikat

Yeah, that was always one of my favorite stories. How can one man create so
many straw men in one conversation?
.

User: "+Church of The Painful Truth+"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 02:27:47 PM

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:HEDpc.36868$su1.34699@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10ae15fq7674160@corp.supernews.com...

"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:jsCpc.25684$U4.7256@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

"James Chapman" <jchapman033@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10adrlfb250lr17@corp.supernews.com...

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10adq2qnov60b29@corp.supernews.com...

<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact. A

quick

visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr.

Dino's

site. My, what a small world.

http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89

If it was anti-science, was patheticlay stupid, shown to be wrong

using

common sense, I automatically assume it's Hovind.

Boikat

Yeah, this should have given it away:
"Shortly there after, two Christians who also shared my view
confronted me and we had a wonderful discussion. Both, familiar with

Dr.

Hovind and Creation Science Evangelism openly expressed their relief

see

another Christian in attendance"
Kind of sickens me that Hovind and his followers consider themselves
christians. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that none of this

actually

occured?

Like the conversation he claimed to have had on a airline with a Berkley
"professor" about the Big Bang. Berkley? Could have been a professor

underwater basket weaving for all anyone knows.

Boikat

Yeah, that was always one of my favorite stories. How can one man create

many straw men in one conversation?

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt at
credibility.
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 08:44:39 PM

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:
Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

....by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt at
credibility.

....after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to stand
on.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.
Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
.

User: "Jez"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	19 May 2004 07:12:27 AM

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94EBD41694B3Daskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18...

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:

Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

...by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt at
credibility.

...after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to stand
on.

Boyo ?????
Sounds a bit Welsh to me !
Duw duw !
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	19 May 2004 12:57:43 PM

"Jez" <iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:40ab50a7$0$25319$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com:

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in
message news:Xns94EBD41694B3Daskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18...

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:

Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

...by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt
at credibility.

...after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to
stand on.

Boyo ?????

Sounds a bit Welsh to me !

Duw duw !

I was remembering the stereotypical Irish cop in some old movies who called
other guys "Boyo"
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.
Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
.

User: "Jez"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	20 May 2004 12:57:17 PM

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in message

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to
stand on.

Boyo ?????

Sounds a bit Welsh to me !

Duw duw !

I was remembering the stereotypical Irish cop in some old movies who

called

other guys "Boyo"

Eeech ! You wouldn't get the Irish saying 'Boyo'
Thats one of our words !!
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.

User: "Patrick James"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	20 May 2004 02:05:02 PM

On Thu, 20 May 2004 12:57:17 -0500, Jez wrote
(in article <40acf0fd$0$25319$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>):

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in message

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to
stand on.

Boyo ?????

Sounds a bit Welsh to me !

Duw duw !

I was remembering the stereotypical Irish cop in some old movies who

called

other guys "Boyo"

Eeech ! You wouldn't get the Irish saying 'Boyo'

Thats one of our words !!

you sure about that, boyo?
--
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
.

User: "Grinder"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	19 May 2004 01:21:18 PM

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94EE84FAB8FC7askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18...

"Jez" <iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:40ab50a7$0$25319$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com:

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in
message news:Xns94EBD41694B3Daskifyouwantit@216.77.188.18...

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:

Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

...by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt
at credibility.

...after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to
stand on.

Boyo ?????

Sounds a bit Welsh to me !

Duw duw !

I was remembering the stereotypical Irish cop in some old movies who

called

other guys "Boyo"

Or for a more recent portrayal, see Dudley Smith in L.A. Confidential.
.

User: "John Wilkins"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 10:02:12 PM

Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:

Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

...by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt at
credibility.

...after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to stand
on.

That's a wonderful mental image:
*Bang!* there goes the left leg. *Bang!* there goes the right leg.
*Bang!* there goes the upper left thing. *Bang!* there goes the upper
right thigh. *Bang!* there goes the arse. [Pagano thinks to self - must
start watching what I step or fall on soon.]
--
Dr John S. Wilkins, www.wilkins.id.au
"I never meet anyone who is not perplexed what to do with their
children" --Charles Darwin to Syms Covington, February 22, 1857
.

User: "Doc Smartass"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 10:38:41 PM

(John Wilkins) wrote in
news:1gdxlmv.1r3kgjn3ltstxN%

Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:

Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

...by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt
at credibility.

...after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to
stand on.

"Right! I'll do you for that!" *bahaha*
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.
Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
.

User: "+Church of The Painful Truth+"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	17 May 2004 08:47:36 PM

"Doc Smartass" <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94EBE76E954A8askifyouwantit@216.77.188.18...

john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote in
news:1gdxlmv.1r3kgjn3ltstxN%john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au:

Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com> wrote:

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in
news:nnPpc.29$zx6.33261@news.uswest.net:

Painless decided to correct

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10af7esn716ot73@corp.supernews.com...

...by saying:

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt
at credibility.

...after posting:

Only an illiterate and decietful monkey would post such a deceptive
response.

If spelling errors were landmines, boyo, you wouldn't have an ***** to
stand on.

"Right! I'll do you for that!" *bahaha*

--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939

Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.

Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
WRITTEN RULES OF ATHEISM

1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical, psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
4a. Specific example for 4.: Cry for "freedom from religion", but whenever
followers of other faiths want the same freedom and courts agree, scream
"Persecution!"
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
5a. When caught lying, always accuse the opposition of lying rather than
be honest and admit the obvious
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of atheisms failure for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to yourself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of no ones plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of being a
vertabrate monkey out of the premordial slugde
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as right wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything because you have no moral
compass guiding you.
.

User: "Adam Ritthaler"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 07:23:26 PM

"+Church of The Painful Truth+" <Atheistsare@fools.com> wrote in message
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"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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"Boikat" <boikat@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
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"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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<snip copied material>
so, who'd you rip off this time ray gun?

Well, at least he left the original author's identity intact.

quick

visit to Google reveals the apparent source...our old friend Dr.

Dino's

site. My, what a small world.

http://www2.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=89

If it was anti-science, was patheticlay stupid, shown to be wrong

using

common sense, I automatically assume it's Hovind.

Boikat

Yeah, this should have given it away:
"Shortly there after, two Christians who also shared my view
confronted me and we had a wonderful discussion. Both, familiar with

Dr.

Hovind and Creation Science Evangelism openly expressed their relief

see

another Christian in attendance"
Kind of sickens me that Hovind and his followers consider themselves
christians. Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that none of this

actually

occured?

Like the conversation he claimed to have had on a airline with a

Berkley

"professor" about the Big Bang. Berkley? Could have been a professor

underwater basket weaving for all anyone knows.

Boikat

Yeah, that was always one of my favorite stories. How can one man

create

many straw men in one conversation?

Ummm,use the spell checker next time you make an in vain attempt at
credibility.

Mind point out where I made a mistake? Or should I just take this as a vain
attempt on your part to look intelligent?
.

User: "+Church of The Painful Truth+"
Title: Re: University of Western Florida "Free Thinkers" Discussion	16 May 2004 09:05:13 PM

"Adam Ritthaler" <adamritthaler_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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