Religions > Atheism > Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to innerpeace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
27 Dec 2007 06:15:37 PM |
| Object: |
Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to innerpeace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
The facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they
generally stink as humans.
Until atheism can replace theist based religion as a VIABLE and REAL
way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take
over the world and extinguish religion.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious
thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the
hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
When atheists become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may
become more successful at replacing theist based religion.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be
intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether
cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful
seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will
fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing
religion with real humanity and compassion.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it
comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
And really the vast majority of atheists don't even have 'the talk' to
spout, since they have no semblance of inner peace themselves in order
to form a basis of 'lip service' to pontificate.
Another reason atheists will never win, is in general it takes hatred
to fuel atheism if one is a dogmatic, militant atheist.
Hatred blinds one to peace.
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.philosophy/browse_thread/thread/f4006812a06f9ddf
When you lose the hatred and militant foundation, then you do not wish
to destroy others or their religion....you are at peace to let them be
religious.
Sure you do not let others destroy you with religion, you tell them
the facts that they run by faith, so do not get too high and mighty
and start forcing you into the religion against your will.
But you only fight in a measured way of self defense, instead of the
offensive atheists that sets out to destroy 'all faith based beliefs'
just for the sheer joy of hurting another.
Sure tearing others down appeals to one's ego and pride, but so did
torturing insects when we were kids. When we grow up we need a
different way to find self worth.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds
and water these seeds within you as well.
As you give so you receive.
Is that from the bible or karma?
No, it is just universal law.
Do we like to be beaten down?
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed
in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well
as others peace.
It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in
peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up
to destroy it.
When I posted this paragraph earlier, an atheist piped to accuse me of
hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I pick it up to eat
it, so I am a liar.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must
spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger
fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace
practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when
I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to
bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come
about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of Inner Peace
tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish
to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how these God's
work, I just know they are and I can abide by their guidance or be
defiant to these Gods and end up destroying my life and the lives of
others.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Yes, there are theists that stink. See: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/burning.html
I will be the first to admit that religion has done lots of harm but I
will also say religion done lots of right.
And just as the question of God cannot be answered with any certainty,
so goes the question of whether the world would have been better off
without religion or not.
It is a question that cannot be answered like it was in the movie
"It's a Wonderful life.'
But lets look at the facts and see that the vast, vast majority of
people are theists or believe in hereafter, so the pot is enormous
that we draw from when we pull out examples of evildoing theists that
the atheists like to parade around.
The USA was founded with God in the details. I suggest atheists that
hate a religious based country like the USA move to China or Russia.
Then you can live your dream right now, in your God free country.
In China, it was a common practice to execute political prisoners with
one bullet to the head...then they sent the bill for the bullet to the
family of the executed prisoner. That is where separation of state and
religion can lead a country. Once religion is out of politics, then
the only thing left in control is ego.
They say Hitler was a Catholic?
I don't know if he was Catholic or not.
I do know that Hitler did not practice even the most basic tenants of
Christianity.
It takes more than lip service to be a 'practicing' Catholic,
Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu or Hebrew follower.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=380.0
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/125b41aa8fd2b87b/cf400bdf88ba1701?lnk=gst&q=conundrum&rnum=7&hl=en#cf400bdf88ba1701
Now, some 'spiritually based atheist's can far surpasses many theists
in kindness and virtue many times...so it just depends on what 'type
of atheist' you are talking about?
But these sort of atheists are very rare to encounter, as spiritual
values and atheism do not generally mix.
"People that practice religion are worried about going to hell -
people that practice spirituality have already been to hell and don't
want to go back."
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God. They do
not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts. Until
they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace)
they seek.
It is the same for those that think money is all that is standing
between them and happiness.
So it goes for the ego and intellect based person that is devoid of
spiritual values.
And if the atheists is honest they will see they do not run their
lives solely by logic and are no better than the theist that runs
their lives by faith.
No, logic only goes so far in life. For what is logical is not always
practical when it comes to humans ... is it?
Always remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a
good life. Seek balance.
Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect - but we can all do
better at being humans if we try to be more humane.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
There are many flavors of atheists...natural atheists, personal
atheists, explicit atheists, implicit atheists weak atheists, strong
atheists, discovery atheists, reactionary atheists, indoctrinated
atheists and of course the bad ***** atheists with attitude aka BAAWA
varieties.
But the defining characteristic that leads an atheist to peace is
whether they are a 'spiritual based atheist' or 'defiance based
atheist.''
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life
at peace. Egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to
be open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your
growth and sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
As a freethinking agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the
road takes me. I discriminate against no one. As such, I study with
the Christians, the Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and
even find truth as I study with the atheists.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
When you practice peace promotion with others you will reap inner
peace promotion. When you practice destroying others peace, you will
reap self destruction of inner peace.
I suggest any atheists wishing to find inner peace within their life
adopt the creed of the atheists (their version of prepackaged morals)
and start actually practicing the wisdom that their religion of
secular humanism offers them.
The 'informal creed' of atheism.
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes
that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth
for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he
must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life,
to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a
knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will
help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow
man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital
should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer
said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He
wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a
god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a
hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our
own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the
time is now."
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
* We are committed to the application of reason and science to the
understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
* We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to
explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature
for salvation.
* We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute
to the betterment of human life.
* We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is
the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian
elites and repressive majorities.
* We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and
state.
* We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of
resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
* We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and
with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
* We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so
that they will be able to help themselves.
* We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race,
religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or
ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of
humanity.
* We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future
generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other
species.
* We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our
creative talents to their fullest.
* We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
* We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to
fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to
exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and
informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
* We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity,
honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to
critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we
discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
* We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We
want to nourish reason and compassion.
* We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
* We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still
to be made in the cosmos.
* We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to
novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
* We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of
despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal
significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
* We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than
despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance,
joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love
instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of
ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
* We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that
we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
27 Dec 2007 10:26:03 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 12:57:20 AM |
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On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
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| User: "snausages" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 01:22:40 AM |
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On Dec 27, 10:57 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
Nice....me like.
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 02:01:11 AM |
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On Dec 27, 11:57=A0pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...=
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
=2E..which paves the way for more sickness.
W : )
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| User: "snausages" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 04:31:43 AM |
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On Dec 28, 12:01 am, Wordsmith <wordsm...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:57 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
...which paves the way for more sickness.
W : )
Yep, health causes sickness. Up causes down. West causes East.
Nothing causes everything. You get the idea. It's bizarro world.
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 03:22:19 PM |
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On Dec 28, 3:31=A0am, snausages <goofin...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 28, 12:01 am, Wordsmith <wordsm...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 27, 11:57 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.co=
m...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
...which paves the way for more sickness.
W : )
Yep, health causes sickness. =A0Up causes down. =A0West causes East.
Nothing causes everything. =A0You get the idea. =A0It's bizarro world.
Your post milks the bizarro factor to the hilt.
W : )
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| User: "Syd M." |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 01:51:49 AM |
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On Dec 28, 1:57 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
In V's case, alcohol..
PDW
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:52:28 AM |
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On Dec 28, 1:57=EF=BF=BDam, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...=
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
True, but I don't see any evidence that atheism is a healthy way to
live if one gets rid of religion?
If the atheists gets rid of hatred, it may make room for compassion.
V
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 02:39:22 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b6402b88-65ea-4557-9ba0-5fc9aa51b57f@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 28, 1:57?am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
True, but I don't see any evidence that atheism is a healthy way to
live if one gets rid of religion?
I don't see any evidence it's not.
If the atheists gets rid of hatred, it may make room for compassion.
You first.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 10:40:15 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), V <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 28, 1:57?am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
True, but I don't see any evidence that atheism is a healthy way to
live if one gets rid of religion? If the atheists gets rid of hatred,
it may make room for compassion.
V
So in your opinion there's atheism and religion with nothing in
between? If so, your opinion is totally worthless as are it's
ramifications. There's a huge amount of folks who think religion is a
hindrance to the truth - what with all the dogma, orthodoxy, and just
plain crap that most organized religions foist upon its believers.
Ethics and religion are NOT one in the same. Folks can lead ethical
lives w/o benefit of religion. How many have been killed in the name
of atheism? And don't name Stalin and/or Mao as killers in the name of
atheism - they weren't. They were killers in the name of Communism -
their religion. How many have died in the name of organized religion -
uncountable millions. Personally I'm not an atheist - I'm one of those
who just doesn't know. But I do know to steer clear of those who seek
to make their unverifiable beliefs fact.
WB Yeats
BTW - if there were a God - he/she is on nobody's side no matter how
many fatted calves you slaughter in his/her name.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:57:27 AM |
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V wrote:
On Dec 28, 1:57�am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:03 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com>
wrote:
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0fc78e4e-e5a3-4afb-82d0-cbb88469c790@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
When you get rid of one thing it makes room for another.
When you get rid of smallpox, what does it make room for?
Health.
True, but I don't see any evidence that atheism is a healthy way to
live if one gets rid of religion?
If the atheists gets rid of hatred, it may make room for compassion.
I hate no one. I am compassionate and feel pity for you, V, that you
are brainwashed into believing Han Solo is a real person.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************
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| User: "Frank Mayhar" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 01:28:46 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:57:27 -0800, DanielSan wrote:
V wrote:
[tripe]
I hate no one. I am compassionate and feel pity for you, V, that you
are brainwashed into believing Han Solo is a real person.
Just FYI, we have a mass plonk on for this particular letter of the
alphabet. It's an attention ***** and will continue to reply with its
inanities as long as it feels it's receiving any attention at all. You
know that adage about atheists and herding cats? Well, that letter
achieved the impossible: Persuading nearly everyone here that it was not
worth reading and should be killfiled.
--
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar*
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| User: "Sir Frederick" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 05:17:40 AM |
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Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including music and rituals).
Human brains need that sort of thing.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 06:16:18 AM |
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"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including
music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Human brains need that sort of thing.
No, they don't.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
Whatever.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Sir Frederick" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 06:42:12 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:16:18 -0500, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including
music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
Granted, humanity is crazy, but there it is.
Human brains need that sort of thing.
No, they don't.
Yet 99 percent (more or less) of human brains come to those
functions, just like walking and talking. Things that got built in by evolution
are still there.
The stories may all be BS fiction, but the brains are what they are.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
Whatever.
Whatever.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 06:48:43 AM |
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"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:iar9n3tsdt6v2oq14kuj7ovp5eqedkqs5a@4ax.com...
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:16:18 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories
(including
music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
In your opinion.
Granted, humanity is crazy, but there it is.
See above.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 06:55:31 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:42:12 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:16:18 -0500, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including
music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
What a remarkably stupid thing to say.
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| User: "Sir Frederick" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:15:40 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:55:31 -0500, Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:42:12 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:16:18 -0500, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including
music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
What a remarkably stupid thing to say.
To quote Robibnikoff :
In your opinion.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:45:04 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:15:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:55:31 -0500, Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:42:12 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:16:18 -0500, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including
music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
What a remarkably stupid thing to say.
To quote Robibnikoff :
In your opinion.
Fact, moron.
The lying idiot is too stupid to recognise his own non-sequitur.
Atheism is a human attribute, moron. How the ***** can it be
"disconnected from humanity"? Let alone "remain" that way?
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 08:48:51 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:42:12 -0800, Sir Frederick wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:16:18 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Sir Frederick" <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:3hm9n3dec10h7fomflsl70ddpeseeaeoc9@4ax.com...
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories
(including music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
So what are we, minerals?
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“In this world of sin and sorrow there is always
something to be thankful for; as for me,
I rejoice that I am not a Republican.”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 01:36:37 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, Sir Frederick <mmcneill@fuzzysys.com>
bloodied us up with this:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories
(including music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
Granted, humanity is crazy, but there it is.
Atheism is deliverance from delusion. It is the new Renaissance. Rituals
are not required, since the joy of daily life suffices. It's a breath of
fresh air in a sea of supernatural fallout.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 06:32:56 PM |
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On Dec 28, 2:36=EF=BF=BDpm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Sir Frederick <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com>
bloodied us up with this:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories
(including music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
Granted, humanity is crazy, but there it is.
Atheism is deliverance from delusion. =EF=BF=BDIt is the new Renaissance. =
=EF=BF=BDRituals
are not required, since the joy of daily life suffices. =EF=BF=BDIt's a br=
eath of
fresh air in a sea of supernatural fallout.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
Atheism is deliverance from delusion???
No, would not go that far.
Religious rituals...maybe.
Delusion....NO!
The three unwholesome roots of delusions, greed and hate are very
basic to a a Buddhist practice. Out of these three, delusion is the
foundational root, for without seeing delusions for what they are, you
cannot distinguish the other two unwholesome roots of greed and hate.
Now delusion is not limited to my Buddhist friends.
Here we can see an atheist Enkidu that suffers from massive delusions
just as the theist does...yet you claim Enkidu is free from delusions
since he is an atheist?
"The Self Deified Atheist"
BuddyThunder wrote:
"I've recently read a bunch of posts from the local theists of various
unsupportable beliefs calling atheists worshippers of this and
that.Darwin, science, money, rationalism, ourselves, and the senses
have all got the treatment, but non sequiturs like this simply make
the poster look hysterical and silly. For the theists among us: I am
an atheist. I worship nothing.... Incidentally, so do you!"
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
Thanks for your post BuddyThunder
I've noticed this phenomena many times at alt.atheism.
Atheists seem to think if they 'justify' something in their mind, then
the 'god of logic' will make it true in the real world.
Unfortunately they forget they are humans and not machines.
The nature of humans is that of imperfection - it is only the nature
of gods to be perfect.
As such, what is logical is not always practical when it comes to
humans.
And this fact is only magnified a hundred fold when the logic emanates
from the sick atheist's mind.
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed
in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well
as others peace. It takes no energy from me to pass something by and
leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to
pick something up to destroy it.
When I posted this paragraph earlier, an atheist piped to call me a
liar and accuse me of hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato
when I pick it up to eat it.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must
spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger
fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace
practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when
I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to
bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come
about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of inner Peace
tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish
to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how they work, I
just know they are.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D342.0
Being truth based instead of ego based, I have no need for
justification, I just seek the truth BuddyThunder.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D532.0
I look impartially at theists as well as atheists. If I did otherwise,
I could not be truth based, but would be ego based.
Do I seek to destroy atheists?
No, to do so would destroy me as well.
But, I do seek to have an opinion and comment on their actions.
And if what I say is false, then refute me, so I may adopt the truth
BuddyThunder.
But, the facts show the more I write, the less the atheists refute
BuddyThunder.
Atheists are a sad lot. They have no answers for me. You would think
if they cannot answer a proposition, they would look into it for
aspects of truth.
But honor dies where the interest lies BuddyThunder.
And with atheists their interest is in 'claiming they do not worship
anything under the sun'...well except worshiping themselves it seems.
But as atheists are ego based and not truth based BuddyThunder, they
are run by confused passions and deceit, as their ego's spin webs to
make their delusional and toxic thoughts appear as truth to them.
How could they live otherwise? The toxicity would kill them!
So, I am afraid I must disagree and rest on 'what is' true and not
what 'you wish' to be true BuddyThunder.
Now, you don't have to rationalize and justify yourself to me my
friend, you are free to do and think as you like BuddyThunder.
Thoreau once said when people invited him to dinner they put their
pride in how fancy and expensive a meal they could make. Whereas he
put his pride in how simple and inexpensive a meal he could make.
Where do you put your pride BuddyThunder?
Don't put your pride in saying 'I am an atheist and worship nothing'.
May I be so bold as to suggest you put your pride in being at peace
BuddyThunder.
Thoreau also said a thousand will strike at the branches of evil, but
only one will strike at the roots...be that one atheist that strikes
with truth BuddyThunder
But, no matter how you slice it, the fact remains, the confused, mind
manacled, spiritually sick atheist do worship many false gods
BuddyThunder.
Atheists worship their intellect, atheists make the test tube their
god, atheists worship hatred, atheists worship ignorance and
deceit...and atheists deify themselves BuddyThunder.
But humans do not make good gods BuddyThunder.
For once they become a god in their mind, they think they are perfect
and lose that part of being human that distinguishes them from all
else...they lose their conscience BuddyThunder.
And in the process, these self defied atheist gods loose all touch
with humanity BuddyThunder.
We can see this come to life with the quote below from Enkidu. This
same thinking that Enkidu uses to convince itself that it knows
everything about everything is what fuels the delusional atheists
mind.
This ego based foundation of godlike knowledge tells the atheist that
they know the unknowable.
Such atheists are only haggard shells of a human, withering away in
their hate based, delusional stew they call a life.
And as they live on a diet of hate and self righteous deceit - over
time, this poison festers and yields them a putrid, cesspool of a life
that manifests itself as the tragedy upon humanity known as the
dogmatic, mind manacled, spiritually sick atheist.
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find
peace BuddyThunder.
Despite Neil's claims to the contrary..this is 'universal law'
BuddyThunder.
We can see what happened recently at alt.athesim when we had a
'potential atheist convert' questioning their faith wondered onto our
board.
They could see 'atheism in action' for themselves with many
spiritually sick example members and their projection of this
spiritual sickness and self hate onto others.
They left in a few days offering...thanks...but no thanks.
These potential 'atheist converts' soon go back to their priest or
minister begging them to be admitted back into the flock...and who
could blame them!
For the 'God delusion' at least delivers a modicum of peace
Whereas the hate fueled, toxic, cesspool of a mind that atheists rely
on yields zero peace.
But such a mind is good for one thing BuddyThunder...it is good for
poisoning the individual and everyone around them.
Be honest with yourself BuddyThunder. Can poison, hatred and
destruction that the atheist offer ever yield you inner peace?
See:
http://www.churcharson.com/act_now/
I submit that you all drop the pretense and lies that you have been
grasping onto for entire life BuddyThunder and rebuild your life
through a foundation of truth and testing and regenerate yourself into
a truth based agnostic freethinker.
I've run into many of toxic atheists over the last 10 years
BuddyThunder. And can tell you without any doubt, that the atheist
that only has a foundation of ego, delusion and hate can and will
never find peace.
When this self deification occurs, the result is always the
same...they all self-destruct...the poison gets to them sooner or
later.
Lets look at one such self deified atheist Enkidu.
Now Enkidu knows everything about everything and no one can tell 'it'
a thing.
(BTW Enkidu, what is your gender so I may address you properly. I know
you are a shame based individual and are predisposed to hiding. But
offering your gender should be not be that big of a deal?)
Enkidu writes: "You (V) have nothing to say that we haven't heard
before, nothing to say that hasn't been say better by others, and
nothing to say that was worth hearing when said better by others. Your
pathetic little turds of truth are unoriginal*, irrational, ill-
conceived, ill-received, and devoid of value. But no, with all the
understanding of diarrhoeic bull's *****, you continue to spray *****
with abandon. " (condensed)
When you become this mind manacled as Enkidu, you make yourself the
god, you know all there is to know about everything under the sun and
forget you are interdependent with others as well as the spirit.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D613.0
Enkidu is free to have an opinion and speak for itself, but Enkidu
also speaks for 'all' of alt.atheism as well!
Who do I tell you I speak for?
For myself, my sig line I have used in the past state..."any opinion
expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion,
recommendation or belief of any group or organization."
This is the clue of self deification BuddyThunder.
When we think we 'control all' and 'can speak for' and 'know all'...we
think we are god.
Now, Enkidu is not alone.
There are a few more mind manacled atheist gods here... Raven,
Robibnikoff, Bilbo, Michael Gray, Kate, Floyd, Neil, Michelle,
Parsifa, Martin, Lucifer, Syd M, John #1782, Kate, Hollis,
Gail,...they are all good examples of this sickness of self
deification.
They pass their time by as perennial fiends of shame and hostility,
just more cowards behind their keyboards, provoking others through
their frantic efforts to bloat their ego by degrading people in their
misguided hopes of finding inner peace.
But peace eludes them at every step. The more they write, the sicker
they become.
Can it be any other way when we administer poison BuddyThunder?
It is just like drinking salt water to quench thirst - futile.
So are the efforts of these sad and hopeless individuals that think
maybe they can find inner peace by hurting and destroying others.
As James Allen tell us...
"Good thoughts and actions can never produce bad results. Bad thoughts
and actions can never produce good results. This is but saying that
nothing can come from corn but corn, nothing from nettles but nettles.
Men understand this law in the natural world, and work with it. But
few understand it in the mental and moral world...
and
"To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to patiently learn to
find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are the very portals of
heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of peace toward every
creature will bring abounding peace to their possessor."
This doesn't mean we have to not be concerned with danger to our well
being by any particular group. but, it also reminds us we will never
be at peace by fostering hatred for another.
As Enkidu tells us above..all this is nothing original*....what I've
said nothing new - as Raven, Robibnikoff, Bilbo, Michael Gray, Kate,
Floyd, Neil, Michelle, Parsifa, Martin, Lucifer, Syd M, John #1782,
Enkidu, Kate, Hollis, Gail already knows everything about
everything.....
As I have told Raven and will tell the rest of you - we can change our
current life, a life that yields us nothing but pain and suffering,
into a new life of joy and inner peace. We transform ourselves by the
simple action of taking that first step in the opposite direction that
we have been headed in for so long...but I can't take that first step
for you my friend.
Also see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D509.0
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/125b41aa8fd2b87=
b/cf400bdf88ba1701?lnk=3Dgst&q=3Dconundrum&rnum=3D7&hl=3Den#cf400bdf88ba1701=
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D614.0
*For your information Enkidu, a portion of what I write is original,
so you may wish to amend your words somewhat. But do not get stuck
with 'a thing being original or not original,' just look at it for
practical application for its truth with yielding peace Enkidu.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D4.0
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "Dag Yo" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
29 Dec 2007 06:17:31 AM |
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Here we can see an atheist Enkidu that suffers from massive delusions
just as the theist does...yet you claim Enkidu is free from delusions
since he is an atheist?
If I may butt-in, its pretty clear that atheists are free of at least
one delusion (though I recognize that I'm bypassing the formal
definition of a delusion to do so), Enkidu included. And thats always
a good start.
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| User: "Syd M." |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way toinner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
29 Dec 2007 12:34:15 AM |
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On Dec 28, 7:32 pm, V <vf...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 28, 2:36=EF=BF=BDpm, Uncle Vic <addr...@withheld.com> wrote:
One fine day in alt.atheism, Sir Frederick <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com>
bloodied us up with this:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories
(including music and rituals).
No, it doesn't
Then it will remain disconnected from humanity.
Granted, humanity is crazy, but there it is.
Atheism is deliverance from delusion. =EF=BF=BDIt is the new Renaissance=
.. =EF=BF=BDRituals
are not required, since the joy of daily life suffices. =EF=BF=BDIt's a =
breath of
fresh air in a sea of supernatural fallout.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
Atheism is deliverance from delusion???
No, would not go that far.
Religious rituals...maybe.
Delusion....NO!
The three unwholesome roots of delusions, greed and hate are very
basic to a a Buddhist practice. Out of these three, delusion is the
foundational root, for without seeing delusions for what they are, you
cannot distinguish the other two unwholesome roots of greed and hate.
Now delusion is not limited to my Buddhist friends.
Here we can see an atheist Enkidu that suffers from massive delusions
just as the theist does...yet you claim Enkidu is free from delusions
since he is an atheist?
"The Self Deified Atheist"
The Walker Prerogative
"I'm a uniter, not a divider."
-George W. Bush
George W. Bush is the most polarizing president in history.
-Rolling Stone
The fighting had stopped.
Paul Wright stood on Harbison Road, watching the last of the missiles
fall. The two factions had been fighting ever since the had declared
himself President For Life, and called those against him traitors and
ordered their round-up. They had retaliated by bombing DC. The
Santoriam faction had then bombed Boston, and it had escalated. Now,
most of the country was in ruins, private militia facing off against
each other, old grudges fulfilled. The UN had pulled out after coming
under fire from the FOTF factions. Others had left after hostage
taking and killing became common.
Paul stepped over the body of a child, and walked up the ruined road.
It splintered under his feet, its surface nearly reverting to the
dirt road that it had come from.
He was becoming quite concerned for his cousin, Iris.
He took the hill carefully, avoiding land-mines and unexploded
munitions. Huge rubble blocked the way.
He sighed, wondering where she was.
But I'm the decider and I decide what's best.
* announcing that Donald Rumsfeld would not be replaced as Secretary
of Defense, April 18, 2006.
What did the president know, and when did he know it?
-Referring to Richard Nixon and Watergate.
Paul approached the hollow bulk of Irmo High School as it slowly fell
into ruins. Great holes yawned in its bulk. Paul stopped and looked
at it without emotion.
Though the school proper was in ruins, the W. C. Hawkins stadium
right
next to it was untouched.
Paul decided to play a hunch.
"I'm constantly looking to see if things could be done differently,
or
better."
-George W. Bush
"I wish you had given me this written question ahead of time, so I
could plan for it.. You know, I just-- I'm sure something will pop
into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the
pressure of trying to come up with an answer, but it hasn't yet."
-George W. Bush, 13 April 2004
After he'd been asked if he recalls any mistakes as president.
Around the side, over the crumbling main entrance, he found what he'd
been looking for.
Paul climbed the steps and walked towards the crumbling main doors.
There, standing with her back to him, was a girl. She wore a calve
length coyote fur coat. Her features were vaguely Asian. Her hair was
long and dark. He smiled and moved towards her.
"I knew you'd be here" He said.
She turned, regarded him, and also smiled. He leaned against the
rusty
fence while she leaned against the broken window frame. They studied
each other warily, then:
"What new?" He asked.
She shrugged, said "The Walker thugs have called a cease fire. But
the
other side is dubious. I'm sure they regard it as a trap. It doesn't
seem likely to hold." "*****."
The girl looked at him, said "I thought this was your favorite type
of
situation, Paul."
"It is, Chi Fang. But it's so tiring."
Chi Fang smiled, Said "When politics become all or nothing, nobody
wins."
"Ruins. Only ruins. Oh, well, Rome wasn't ruined in a day."
She shrugged, said "Well, it's better then what the African-Americans
got. Their schools got completely razed."
Paul looked at the sky through the gaping holes, said "They claim to
care
about the citizens, but their actions betray them. They lined their
pockets while the populations starve. Nothing ever changes."
"Not since the early days of Sumar."
He nodded. She moved over to him, threw her heavy furry arm over his
shoulders, and kissed him full on the mouth. He looked surprised, but
returned her embrace and kiss. The fur touching his skin made him
excited. She, too, was getting excited, her embrace tightened, their
breathing became heavy.
They heard a rocket pass overhead, heard it explode nearby.
"Looks like," She commented "That the cease-fire has failed."
"Looks like it," he agreed, reluctant to let her out of his embrace.
She finally disentangled herself, pushing him back against the fence.
He sighed, glaring at the sky again. She patted her hair down. He
read
a nearby poster, which turned out to be a recruitment poster for a
right-
wing militia. Even they had to resort to advertisement. Things were
tough all over.
"What now, Mrs. Fang?"
She shrugged, adjusting her fur coat around her.
"We could try to get another cease-fire going, and try to stop them
from killing each other. I'm not optimistic about our chances,
though."
"Saving face is always more important then doing the right thing."
"Right. In politics, a show of strength trumps the right thing every
time."
"You sound as cynical as me, Chi Fang."
"Can you blame me?"
She reached out, took his hand, and led him to the stairs. He
followed
her mechanically.
"They can't get along with each other, let alone anyone different,"
She
said.
Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and
irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
-George Washington
I really believe that the pagans and the abortionist and the feminist
and the gays and the lesbians who are trying to make that an
alternate
lifestyle, the ACLU, people for the American way, all of whom have
tried to secularize America. I point my finger in their face, and say
'You helped this (9/11) happen.'"
-Jerry Falwell, founder, Moral Majority
We don't need any American mullahs.
-Jack Van Impe, television preacher
"It=E2=80=99s a good thing we found you, Mr. Wright" Brooks Pruit said,
wiping
a rag over his guns, "You coulda wandered around for weeks. And the
theists are getting restless."
He sat on the navigation seat of the land ship. They had picked up
Paul
Wright and Chi Fang two days earlier, as they were walking up Broad
River road towards the remains of the capitol city. Potshots riddled
the land leviathan. Steering the behemoth, Calvin Smith attempted to
keep it on the road and out of the potholes that increasingly
littered
the road.
They passed a housing development. Paul caught sight of several
bodies
impaled on spears on the lawn of the crumbling red brick buildings. A
sign warned heretics and unbelievers off the property under pain of
death.
Bishop Maxwell, in full clerical garb and the frills of his office,
sat in the back fiddling with chocolate rosaries.
"Damned Protestants" He said "They lack the humility and forgiveness
directed them by our Lord."
Paul snorted. "Humility and forgiveness are often in short supply
when religion is involved."
"You, an unbeliever, would know little of such things, Mr. Wright."
"Oh, I disagree, Bishop."
"Stop it, you two!" Chi Fang spoke up. "This is no time to be
fighting
among ourselves!"
"I agree, Mrs. Fang," the Bishop said, leaning back smugly. Paul
rolled his eyes. He returned to his window.
"If we start fighting" Calvin said, turning the ship left, "Then all
hope is lost."
"Hope" Paul said dismissively.
"It's all we have left" Chi Fang commented.
Paul spoke without turning "Then the world is in a ***** state."
The craft trembled. Calvin cursed, swung to the right.
Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you
are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
George W. Bush
* State of the Union Address (September 21, 2001)
If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack
Sweden, for example.
-Osama Bin Laden
Paul Wright and Chi Fang exited the meeting room. It had not gone
well. The assembled simply yelled past each other rather then deal.
He
leaned against a stained paneled wall and let out a breath. It had
been a tiring, frustrating day.
"I don't believe these people" He said to her "It's like they don't
want to get along."
A tattered flag fell limply between them. She shrugged.
"Maybe they don't. There's more profit to be made in war then in
peace," She said.
"Guess that's why the nations' been on a war economy since Korea" He
grunted.
"Image is everything. None of them want to look weak. Even if common
sense says otherwise."
"Out of touch politicos making our decisions for us" Paul said. He
pulled out a lighter, held it behind the tattered flags. A puff of
smoke appeared. They stood, and strode down the hall. A moment later,
the flag burst into bright orange flame.
I want to be the peace president
George W. Bush -21 July 2004
Stand back and ask how this could have happened. Ask how a prosperous
country isolated by two oceans could have embroiled itself in other
people business that someone would want to do us harm. Even sitting
in
the middle of Europe, Switzerland isn't beset by terrorist attacks,
because the Swiss mind their own business.
-Harry Brown
"It appears" Calvin Smith said, attempting to keep the leviathan on
the
road, "That a flag caught fire and burned down the building."
Chi Fang rolled her eyes and returned her gaze to the bullet-proof
glass.
"And" Calvin continued, "Their calling it a terrorist plot to disrupt
the talks."
"What talks?" Paul said, amused. Calvin shrugged, turned back to his
driving. Brooks Pruit whistled as he cleaned his guns.
"Guess the talks broke down, then," He said.
"No" Paul correct, "They never got beyond shouting."
"They seem more intent" Chi Fang said, "On yelling at each other then
actually discussing anything."
"Ahh. Typical" Brooks said.
"What else" She said, spitefully.
The land ship bumped as it ran over bodies, piled high and unburied.
It appeared that they were meant to be cremated. But no one remained
alive to finish the job.
1945 We can't do business with Stalin. He has broken every one of the
promises he made at Yalta. A very disappointed President Franklin D.
Roosevelt, shortly before his death on April 13, 1945, commenting on
the Big Three meeting (Roosevelt, British Prime Minister Winston
Churchill, and Marshal Josef Stalin of Soviet Russia).
You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
easier... So long as I'm the dictator.
* Responding jokingly to the difficulties of governing Texas, "The
Taming of Texas," Governing Magazine (July 1998); also cited in Is
our
Children Learning?: The Case Against George W. Bush (2000) by Paul
Begala.)
The middle-Southern president Criswell smoothed back black hair. He
had
taken control of the Tex-Ar-Kana states after the federals had
started
fighting among themselves. Other presidents had taken control of
other
sections of the states. They were masters of their own little
kingdoms. They attempted to keep peace between themselves, but little
battles did keep breaking out.
"The first thing we need to do" He shouted into the mike, "Is arrest
that *****-up, Walker!"
The crowd erupted. Criswell flashed a boy's smile into the ancient
camera. The crowd went along. They welcomed someone who appears to be
a
straight talker.
"Christ" Chi Fang whispered to Paul Wright, "These guys are
potentially as bad as the last bunch."
"Only potentially" He replied, watching the overhead screens. The
crowd erupted again, drowning out her retort. The presidents' North
Louisiana drawl rolled out again. It was not the half-French Cajun
dialect. He glared at the camera.
"Only?" She asked once she could be heard again.
"Let's not be too hasty with our judgment."
"Even with politicians?"
"That's right" Paul said, sipping his drink, "First, let's give them
enough rope."
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore- Apocalypse Now
The fifth material cal very of the Southern Carolina Confederacy rode
across the broad clear plains. Most were dressed in trendy new-civil-
war facsimiles. Sliding behind them, were super modern guns and
machinery. Commander Lee List rode along the ranks and shouting
orders. They more or less ignored him.
Riding alongside the phalanx but not with it, Paul Wright and Chi
Fang
rode. They wore trendy apocalypse now-style fatigues. It marked them
as irregulars. It also marked them as ruthless enemies and flakey
friends.
"I didn't believe that New York would cave that quickly" Chi Fang
said.
"Once they saw the banning" Paul replied "That changed their
quickly."
"Moral must be very low" She said, swinging her rifle to her left
shoulder. She steadied her horse. Behind them, the smoke raising from
the city stained the sky black. Paul shrugged.
"Well, everything is running down" He said.
She sighed, said "It's even hit moral lately."
The rode to the top of a hill, looked back down on the column of
soldiers. They drove restlessly north.
Paul stood, staring at Lincoln=E2=80=99s white visage. It was pockmarked wit=
h
holes. Half of the nose was gone. It depressed him for no reason he
could identify. Behind him, the Washington Mall lay in heaps of
rubble. This building was one of the few still standing. The water in
the pool was dark and stagnant. The silence was eerie. The
Southerners
were fools to believe they could just come in and take over, and gun
the resistance into submission. They were on the edge of pulling out,
or "cutting and running" as the advocates of the Washington
occupation derisively call it. The city was turning out to be too
difficult to control. It was only a matter of time.
Impulsively, he raised his gun and shot the rest of Lincoln=E2=80=99s nose
off. He heard answering gunfire outside, but didn't move. It wasn't
close, in any case.
A stone fell into the dark, stagnant, pool. A green cloud bloomed in
the middle of the ripples. Paul stood, watching the ripples bounce
around. It soon settled back into its normal gloom.
Paul smiled as he studied his image in the glassy surface. It
revealed
his true depths.
Saigon ... *****; I'm still only in Saigon
Captain Benjamin L. Willard- Apocalypse Now
Behind a rusty and disrepair fence, a couple of a tennis player shot
a ball between themselves.
The rest of the city had lost its enameled finish and now shone dully
in the feeble rays of sun. Sounds of gun fire sometimes erupted from
the bowels of the city. There were dozens of courts, but less then
half were in use.
"Your sloppy, Shane" Said one of the players. The other growled and
served the ball. Its surface was crawling with green mold. As the
first figure raised his racket to swing, it bounced on the cracked
and
broken surface and disintegrated.
"Well" The first figure said, "That appears to be our game."
"Looks like it" The second figure replied, wiping his face with a
cloth. They both started to pack up their equipment. A runner came
up.
"Major Bruce! Major McCarthy!" He yelled. They turned, and saluted.
Shane Bruce took the message. Robert McCarthy looked over his
shoulder. Bruce finally passed it to him.
"Looks like" Bruce said, "That our vacation is over."
"Looks like it" McCarthy agreed.
They went to look for some functioning showers.
Chi Fang returned the two salutes and waved them to seats. McCarthy
and Bruce took their seats and waited. She studied several folders,
ticking off pages. She finally looked up and sat back, acknowledged
them.
The two men looked at her firmly.
"Thank you, gentlemen, for coming" She said.
"As you know" She continued, "The factions we've been fighting have
not in any way been depleted. More fighters replace the ones
destroyed. Their leaders have gone undercover. We had the President-
For-Life on the run until several hours ago. Since then, he has
dropped out of sight."
"The Vice-President and the Sec-Def?" Bruce asked, lazily.
"No sign. We believe all three have retired to one of those
undisclosed location they spoke about."
"I'm surprised" McCarthy commented, "That those two would admit the
Prezforlife."
"They probably need to, if only to protect whatever secrets he know,"
Bruce said.
"That's right" Chi Fang commented, "And that's what I want you to do:
Find the Prezforlife."
"Nothing else?" Asked Bruce. She shook her head.
"That's all."
McCarthy flipped a stray mote of his fashionable jacket, and said
"What about Wright?"
She scowled, said "Nowhere to be found. He vanished after the
Richmond
affair."
"Typical" McCarthy muttered. Bruce nodded.
Three figures trudged thru the ruins of DC. Two men and one woman.
The
woman was armed with a long rifle and other less visible weapons
hidden away. The men had heavy pistols on their persons. All treaded
cautiously, as danger hung around every corner. McCarthy stepped
gingerly over the body of a young girl with a grimace. The air was
full of gas or blood.
Chi Fang indicated an open door.
"This is the last place we were able to track him" She said.
"The prezforlife" Bruce said, "Or Paul Wright?"
"The prezforlife, of course" She said, glaring at him.
"Of course" McCarthy said with a smile.
They went on in silent. Then, Bruce lit a cigarette.
He said "Suppose Wright has joined the opposition?"
Chi Fang shook her head.
"He'd never do that" She said.
"We don't know that" McCarthy said "He would if he wished to cause
trouble."
"No" She said firmly "He is so against them, that it's unlikely in
the
extreme."
Exterminate the brutes,
-Kurtz, Heart of Darkness
The three stood staring at a charred corpse in front of a heavy steel
door. It still smoldered slightly.
"Well, that solves that" McCarthy commented.
The others nodded.
Bruce said "That solves the prezforlife's fate."
The wind picked up. It blew loose fragments from the corpse off into
the wind. They watched, all lost in their own thoughts.
Bruce cleared his throat, said "Now, the only mystery is who killed
him."
They nodded and began to look around. Finally, McCarthy held up a
ballpoint pen with a smile. They looked at it with a frown.
"So" Bruce said "That clears up Wright's doings."
"I guess the sec-def and the vice-prez have left the country" Chi
Fang
said.
McCarthy strode out and stared out to the horizon. Chi Fang joined
him. They stared, lost in their own thoughts.
A figure watched them. Finally, he put the ancient heater away,
turned, and stumbled away over the rubble and bodies.
PDW
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 03:39:01 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:17:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including music and rituals).
Non-stamp collectors need to create wome mythical *****, as your
brain seems to need that.
Human brains need that sort of thing.
Speak for yourself, buddy.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
Sufficient for what?
Infantile uneducated minds?
You are overheneralizing to the point of being flat-out WRONG!
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| User: "les_on_usenet" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:25:33 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:17:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including music and rituals).
What to satisfy you?
Human brains need that sort of thing.
DO THEY?!!!
You can only speak for yourself. You might need it but I certainly do
not.
Sorry if atheism is not for you but c'est la vie (what's the French
for c'est la vie?)
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
What a strange notion, still if that's the way your mind works that
your affair....
Have you perhaps tried virtual reality? Oh, I guess if you believe
there are gods and planes and spritual levels and things I guess you
already have. Well as I say whatever
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 08:54:04 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:25:33 +0000, les_on_usenet
<delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:17:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including music and rituals).
What to satisfy you?
He still has to explain how he expects a non-event that is no
different than not believing in leprechauns, to do that.
Human brains need that sort of thing.
DO THEY?!!!
In his case it might.
But he's projecting.
You can only speak for yourself. You might need it but I certainly do
not.
Sorry if atheism is not for you but c'est la vie (what's the French
for c'est la vie?)
Dunno but I once saw a wine shop called cellar vie.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
What a strange notion, still if that's the way your mind works that
your affair....
I once had a frustrating time with an atheist who missed the
togetherness of his church. He tried organise pseudo-services with
pseudo-hymns for atheists and then complained that atheists weren't
interested.
He couldn't grasp that atheists wouldn't go qua atheists because all
it is, is not believing in the god of somebody else's religion.
People who like singing might do that sort of thing, as people who
like singing. Which might include some atheists. But they wouldn't do
it as atheists unless they liked not just music but the specific style
of music.
Have you perhaps tried virtual reality? Oh, I guess if you believe
there are gods and planes and spritual levels and things I guess you
already have. Well as I say whatever
I don't do anything as a result of being atheist - all it means is
that I don't do certain things theists do because they are theist.
What I do, is because of other things, that motivate me.
What I am, not what I'm not.
Eg I model trains, walk in the country, like opera and classical
music, cook, enjoy ethnic food etc.
None of these are because of not believing in the god of somebody
else's religion.
If he wants to compose an opera with an atheistic theme, then I might
be interested if it is the same quality as La Boheme.
But that wouldn't be because I'm atheist.
I don't think any of us are like the Christian who listens to
"Christian music" because it's Christian.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 06:38:53 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:17:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including music and rituals).
Human brains need that sort of thing.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
And how do you propose that a non-event no different than not
believing in pixies, can do that?
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| User: "Sir Frederick" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:11:53 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:38:53 -0500, Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:17:40 -0800, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
Atheism needs to produce some good religious experience stories (including music and rituals).
Human brains need that sort of thing.
Science and science fiction provide some of that, but are not sufficient.
And how do you propose that a non-event no different than not
believing in pixies, can do that?
Human brains are susceptible to that sort of story,
in fact they demand that form of exercise.
Even atheist brains.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Until atheism can replace religion as a viable and REAL way to inner peace and a reverence of humanity it can never take over the world. |
28 Dec 2007 07:42:46 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Dec 20 | | | | |
