| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Conspiracy of Doves" |
| Date: |
04 Nov 2005 02:38:17 PM |
| Object: |
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
------------------------------
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Thursday, November 03, 2005
VATICAN CITY - A Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should
listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that
religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific
reason.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture,
made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end
the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long
bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate
in the United States.
The Vatican project was inspired by Pope John Paul II's 1992
declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was
an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was
condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth
revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at
the center of the universe.
"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to
keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in
particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to
prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future,"
Poupard said.
But he said science, too, should listen to religion.
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Monsignor Gianfranco Basti, director of the Vatican project STOQ, or
Science, Theology and Ontological Quest, reaffirmed John Paul's 1996
statement that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis."
"A hypothesis asks whether something is true or false," he said.
"(Evolution) is more than a hypothesis because there is proof."
He was asked about comments made in July by Austrian Cardinal Christoph
Schoenborn, who dismissed in a New York Times article the 1996
statement by John Paul as "rather vague and unimportant" and seemed to
back intelligent design.
Basti concurred that John Paul's 1996 letter "is not a very clear
expression from a definition point of view," but he said evolution was
assuming ever more authority as scientific proof develops.
Poupard, for his part, stressed that what was important was that "the
universe wasn't made by itself, but has a creator." But he added, "It's
important for the faithful to know how science views things to
understand better."
The Vatican project STOQ has organized academic courses and conferences
on the relationship between science and religion and is hosting its
first international conference on "the infinity in science, philosophy
and theology," next week.
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| User: "dgillesp" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
04 Nov 2005 05:39:34 PM |
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Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Whose morality and based on what?
--
Denny
"There cannot be a God because, If there were one, I would
not believe that I were not He." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
04 Nov 2005 07:06:22 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, dgillesp poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Whose morality and based on what?
Your "either-or" mentality is showing again.
Morality is relative. Right, Denny?
Regards,
Josef
If I were to speak your kind of language, I would say that man's only
moral commandment is: Thou shalt think.
-- Ayn Rand
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| User: "Ray Martinez" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
10 Nov 2005 01:31:47 AM |
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Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
------------------------------
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Thursday, November 03, 2005
VATICAN CITY - A Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should
listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that
religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific
reason.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture,
made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end
the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long
bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate
in the United States.
The Vatican project was inspired by Pope John Paul II's 1992
declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was
an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was
condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth
revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at
the center of the universe.
"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to
keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in
particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to
prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future,"
Poupard said.
But he said science, too, should listen to religion.
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Monsignor Gianfranco Basti, director of the Vatican project STOQ, or
Science, Theology and Ontological Quest, reaffirmed John Paul's 1996
statement that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis."
"A hypothesis asks whether something is true or false," he said.
"(Evolution) is more than a hypothesis because there is proof."
He was asked about comments made in July by Austrian Cardinal Christoph
Schoenborn, who dismissed in a New York Times article the 1996
statement by John Paul as "rather vague and unimportant" and seemed to
back intelligent design.
Basti concurred that John Paul's 1996 letter "is not a very clear
expression from a definition point of view," but he said evolution was
assuming ever more authority as scientific proof develops.
Poupard, for his part, stressed that what was important was that "the
universe wasn't made by itself, but has a creator." But he added, "It's
important for the faithful to know how science views things to
understand better."
The Vatican project STOQ has organized academic courses and conferences
on the relationship between science and religion and is hosting its
first international conference on "the infinity in science, philosophy
and theology," next week.
The Catholics are infinetly more smarter and savvy than you
atheist-Darwinists - do you think they are the premier non-governmental
power in the world for nothing ?
First, ONLY Papal decrees, issued by His Holiness, determine official
Catholic doctrine.
What the Cardinal has said is to get the secular world off their backs.
The Church's official Doctrine is still the Nicean Creed which is based
upon Genesis and the remainder of the Canon. Do you know what the
Canon is ?
The Church has an entire corps of theologians who re-interpret the
Bible to fit modern Church positions - once again, official Church
doctrine remains and stays that way until the Pope says otherwise.
The Cardinal also believes in Maryology, the burning of Reformers at
the stake was jusitified, and represents a Church that refuses to
excommunicate Hitler - and he "supports" you guys - you can have him
and all that he represents.
Ray
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| User: "Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
11 Nov 2005 02:41:31 AM |
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On 9 Nov 2005 17:31:47 -0800, "Ray Martinez" <pyramidial@yahoo.com>
wrote:
First, ONLY Papal decrees, issued by His Holiness, determine official
Catholic doctrine.
?? then why does the catechism, not authored by the pope, carry an
imprimatur?
What the Cardinal has said is to get the secular world off their backs.
yeah that makes sense. look what effects the secular world has had on
the catholic view of birth control, women priests and married priests.
---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field
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| User: "VoiceOfReason" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
10 Nov 2005 02:32:39 AM |
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So in other words you're a religious bigot too.
Just curious - if that's what you think about another Christian
denomination, then what is your take on Jews, Gypsies and Slavs?
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
04 Nov 2005 03:04:03 PM |
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Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
------------------------------
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Thursday, November 03, 2005
VATICAN CITY - A Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should
listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that
religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific
reason.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture,
made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end
the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long
bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate
in the United States.
The Vatican project was inspired by Pope John Paul II's 1992
declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was
an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was
condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth
revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at
the center of the universe.
"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to
keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in
particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to
prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future,"
Poupard said.
But he said science, too, should listen to religion.
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
What is unethical about cloning humans? What is wrong is nuclear weapons
used in war against enemies of one's nation?
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Science based on natural laws of processes cannot explain why there is
something rather than nothing. Science cannot give ultimate causes for
existence. Neither can religious faith. Can any religion answer the
question: Why did G-d make the world? The answer is no:
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 05:54:46 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
<snip>
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
What is unethical about cloning humans?
Nothing and plenty, at the same time. The real question is "why" one
would want a clone of anybody? If it's only for organ harvest, then
there's a problem.
What is wrong is nuclear weapons
used in war against enemies of one's nation?
You have to respond "in kind". Then let the escalating happen, if any.
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Science based on natural laws of processes cannot explain why there is
something rather than nothing. Science cannot give ultimate causes for
existence. Neither can religious faith. Can any religion answer the
question: Why did G-d make the world? The answer is no:
Bob Kolker
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 02:36:32 PM |
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Olrik wrote:
You have to respond "in kind". Then let the escalating happen, if any.
*****. In a war you fight to win by whatever means are necessary. Are
you saying we should have invaded? The combat in Okinowa revealed the
Japs to be crazy suicidal motherfuckers. If we had invaded we would have
taken a million casualties. It would have been the equivalent of a dozen
Normandy landings.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, tear his head off and ***** down
his neck. After that burn his house and family to the ground. Kill them
all and let G-d sort out the bodies.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Charles Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
09 Nov 2005 09:15:07 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
<SNIP>
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, tear his head off and ***** down
his neck. After that burn his house and family to the ground. Kill them
all and let G-d sort out the bodies.
Bob Kolker
If everyone followed the law of "an eye for an eye, we'd all be blind."
Mohandas K. Ghandi
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
09 Nov 2005 09:28:17 PM |
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Charles Wilkins wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
<SNIP>
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, tear his head off and ***** down
his neck. After that burn his house and family to the ground. Kill them
all and let G-d sort out the bodies.
Bob Kolker
If everyone followed the law of "an eye for an eye, we'd all be blind."
Mohandas K. Ghandi
Ghandi was a super-calloused fragile mystic plagued with halitosis. He
once suggest that the Jews of Europe should bare their throats to the
Nazis to shame them out of their violence. He reaped what he sowed in
1948. Good riddance to him.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "olrik666" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
06 Nov 2005 07:36:50 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Olrik wrote:
You have to respond "in kind". Then let the escalating happen, if any.
*****. In a war you fight to win by whatever means are necessary.
Yes and no. There are some "rules" (like the Geneva Convention) that
codifies/regulates conduct during a war. A party to a war could break
those rules of course, but not without future consequences.
Are you saying we should have invaded? The combat in Okinowa revealed the
Japs to be crazy suicidal motherfuckers.
They were patriotic men. For better or for worse.
If we had invaded we would have
taken a million casualties.
On which side?
It would have been the equivalent of a dozen
Normandy landings.
Not if it was done right.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, tear his head off and ***** down
his neck. After that burn his house and family to the ground. Kill them
all and let G-d sort out the bodies.
Typical "violence by proxy" post.
BTW, Hiroshima was legitimate. Nagasaki was not.
Bob Kolker
Olrik
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
04 Nov 2005 03:26:04 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
------------------------------
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Thursday, November 03, 2005
VATICAN CITY - A Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should
listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that
religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific
reason.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture,
made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end
the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long
bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate
in the United States.
The Vatican project was inspired by Pope John Paul II's 1992
declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was
an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was
condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth
revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at
the center of the universe.
"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to
keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in
particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to
prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future,"
Poupard said.
But he said science, too, should listen to religion.
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
What is unethical about cloning humans? What is wrong is nuclear weapons
used in war against enemies of one's nation?
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Science based on natural laws of processes cannot explain why there is
something rather than nothing. Science cannot give ultimate causes for
existence. Neither can religious faith. Can any religion answer the
question: Why did G-d make the world? The answer is no:
Bob Kolker
Those are, in fact, questions unamenable to discoure. The Buddha
pointed that out thousands of years ago. Of course, most of the people
who claim to follow him today worship him as a god. Go figure.
Will in New Haven
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| User: "NashtOn" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 01:40:55 AM |
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wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
------------------------------
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Thursday, November 03, 2005
VATICAN CITY - A Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should
listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that
religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific
reason.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture,
made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end
the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long
bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate
in the United States.
The Vatican project was inspired by Pope John Paul II's 1992
declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was
an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was
condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth
revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at
the center of the universe.
"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to
keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in
particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to
prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future,"
Poupard said.
But he said science, too, should listen to religion.
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
What is unethical about cloning humans? What is wrong is nuclear weapons
used in war against enemies of one's nation?
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Science based on natural laws of processes cannot explain why there is
something rather than nothing. Science cannot give ultimate causes for
existence. Neither can religious faith. Can any religion answer the
question: Why did G-d make the world? The answer is no:
Bob Kolker
Those are, in fact, questions unamenable to discoure. The Buddha
pointed that out thousands of years ago. Of course, most of the people
who claim to follow him today worship him as a god. Go figure.
Will in New Haven
You're wrong.
Go study some Buddhism.
Nicola
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| User: "Matthew Isleb" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 06:03:54 AM |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 01:40:55 +0000, NashtOn wrote:
Science based on natural laws of processes cannot explain why there is
something rather than nothing. Science cannot give ultimate causes for
existence. Neither can religious faith. Can any religion answer the
question: Why did G-d make the world? The answer is no:
Bob Kolker
Those are, in fact, questions unamenable to discoure. The Buddha
pointed that out thousands of years ago. Of course, most of the people
who claim to follow him today worship him as a god. Go figure.
Will in New Haven
You're wrong.
Go study some Buddhism.
What is he wrong about? That Buddha showed that there were certain things
unamenable to discourse or that most Buddhists worship him as a god?
Buddha did, in a way, show that certain questions are not amenable to
discourse. There are, however, effective ways besides verbal discourse
of communicating such things.
As for most Buddhists worshipping Buddha as a god, it is complicated.
I am not intimately familiar with the culture of millions of Chinese and
Japanese people, but in north america it seems as though it is not the
case that Buddhists worship Buddha as a god.
-matthew
i
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
10 Nov 2005 01:54:43 AM |
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Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Then they should all resign. Their job is meaningless now
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
------------------------------
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Thursday, November 03, 2005
VATICAN CITY - A Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should
listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that
religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific
reason.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture,
made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end
the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long
bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate
in the United States.
The Vatican project was inspired by Pope John Paul II's 1992
declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was
an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was
condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth
revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at
the center of the universe.
"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to
keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in
particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to
prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future,"
Poupard said.
But he said science, too, should listen to religion.
"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb
and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that
wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.
"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with
reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.
"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular
modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith
be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."
Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the
religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and
"intelligent design."
Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an
element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life
or the emergence of highly complex life forms.
Monsignor Gianfranco Basti, director of the Vatican project STOQ, or
Science, Theology and Ontological Quest, reaffirmed John Paul's 1996
statement that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis."
"A hypothesis asks whether something is true or false," he said.
"(Evolution) is more than a hypothesis because there is proof."
He was asked about comments made in July by Austrian Cardinal Christoph
Schoenborn, who dismissed in a New York Times article the 1996
statement by John Paul as "rather vague and unimportant" and seemed to
back intelligent design.
Basti concurred that John Paul's 1996 letter "is not a very clear
expression from a definition point of view," but he said evolution was
assuming ever more authority as scientific proof develops.
Poupard, for his part, stressed that what was important was that "the
universe wasn't made by itself, but has a creator." But he added, "It's
important for the faithful to know how science views things to
understand better."
The Vatican project STOQ has organized academic courses and conferences
on the relationship between science and religion and is hosting its
first international conference on "the infinity in science, philosophy
and theology," next week.
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| User: "Ray Martinez" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
10 Nov 2005 02:01:26 AM |
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wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Then they should all resign. Their job is meaningless now
SUPER point Cody - simply super !
But read my post - the one preceding yours.
Ray
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
10 Nov 2005 07:16:48 PM |
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On 9 Nov 2005 18:01:26 -0800,
Ray Martinez <pyramidial@yahoo.com> wrote:
Codebrea...@bigsecret.com wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Then they should all resign. Their job is meaningless now
SUPER point Cody - simply super !
But read my post - the one preceding yours.
So what do you think about Codebreaker's chat with Jesus in Atlanta, Ray?
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
11 Nov 2005 12:04:34 AM |
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Ray Martinez wrote:
Codebrea...@bigsecret.com wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Then they should all resign. Their job is meaningless now
SUPER point Cody - simply super !
Hey, stop calling me cody... Are you a foolish atheist.
It is a duty upon a faithful to respect his own.
Why you show disrepect to me like those doomed atheists do.
But read my post - the one preceding yours.
Ray
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| User: "Earle Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
14 Nov 2005 12:29:07 AM |
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In article <1131664797.999211.94830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
Ray Martinez wrote:
Codebrea...@bigsecret.com wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Then they should all resign. Their job is meaningless now
SUPER point Cody - simply super !
Hey, stop calling me cody... Are you a foolish atheist.
It is a duty upon a faithful to respect his own.
Why you show disrepect to me like those doomed atheists do.
*
Why don't you tell us your name, Cody? We'll be happy to call you
by it.
earle
*
"Whatever you do don't read the bible for a moral code. It
advocates predjudice, cruelty, superstition, and murder. Read it
because we need more atheists, and nothing will get you there faster
than reading the damn bible."
--Phil Roberts
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
10 Nov 2005 10:10:30 PM |
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On 9 Nov 2005 17:54:43 -0800, wrote:
Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
Then they should all resign. Their job is meaningless now
:
Who will molest the children then, eh?
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| User: "VoiceOfReason" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 03:22:11 PM |
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Conspiracy of Doves wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
This really isn't anything new. The RCC has held this position for 50
years or more wrt evolution. Most mainstream Christians also support
teaching evolutoin. It's only US fundies who have heartburn with it.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
04 Nov 2005 10:41:28 PM |
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On 4 Nov 2005 06:38:17 -0800, "Conspiracy of Doves" <mark_dp73@yahoo.com> wrote:
Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science
And amazingly enough, it is on the Fox News website.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174489,00.html
But of course I have to disagree with the "science should listen to
religion" line.
Science should listen to morality, not religion.
Christianity is the basis for morality, not science.
Better luck next time.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 07:05:07 AM |
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Christianity is the basis for morality
No it isn't.
The so-called morality as evidenced by the Bible is grossly perverted,
sick, disgusting, cruel, discriminatory. We're better off without it.
Deuteronomy in particular is as bad as anything Adolph Hitler wrote.
Is Christianity based on the Bible or not?
..
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| User: "Ed" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 08:16:46 AM |
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I think that just about does it for the Dover crowd & Intelligent
Designers/Creationists or whatever they choose to call themselves.
Especially with the statements by President Jimmy Carter with the
Vatican any other Christian is just kind of like "out there" without
any legs or anything under them.
Real interesting to note that these folks seem to be
(they are in Dover & in Kansas) Republicans.
What with Brownie, the war, Veep's aide and the belief somewhere
between 51-53% wanting impeachment, I say their day is done.
Good riddens!
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| User: "Charles Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
09 Nov 2005 09:23:48 PM |
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duke wrote:
<SNIP>
Christianity is the basis for morality, not science.
<SNIP>
Excuse me? The religion that brought us the Crusades (both in the
Middle East and in Europe), the Inquisition, the Seven Years' War, the
Thirty Years' War, Oliver Cromwell, the reign of terror (uncapitalized
to distinquish it from the French Reign of Terror) wrought by John
Calvin in Geneva during the 16th century, the Salem Witch Trials,
opposition to abolition during the 19th century in the US, opposition to
women's rights in the US during the 19th and 20th century, and
assistance to the Nazis fleeing Germany at the close of World War II ...
do these sound like appropriate positions for a religion that claims to
be "the basis for morality?"
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 12:12:28 AM |
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duke wrote:
Christianity is the basis for morality, not science.
Then explain the Holy Inquisition and the Crusades to me.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Peter Besenbruch" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 07:28:56 PM |
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duke wrote:
Christianity is the basis for morality, not science.
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:12:28 -0500, Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Then explain the Holy Inquisition and the Crusades to me.
Consolidation of power in a newly united Spain, and the extension of power
outside Europe. There, I've said it. No need to study history. ;)
Your examples are getting a little tired, however. I suggest you add a
third one to the mix, the Albigensian Crusade, the event that got the
office of the Inquisition going in the first place. You might also want to
focus on events in Christian history outside the Roman Catholic Church, as
"duke" may simply argue that Catholics aren't Christian. Salem comes to
mind. If you need them, I could supply you with some juicy details about
Luther and Calvin.
On a more serious note, "duke's" fallacy is similar to yours. Christianity
can indeed be the basis of morality. It might even form the basis of a
critique of the above events. Science strikes me as morally neutral, but
there are plenty of other philosophical systems to base ethics on, and
many don't require belief in God.
I suggest that your slam back at "duke" will simply convince him that the
world is full of "God haters," and that Christians are being persecuted.
Thus, you reinforce his fundamentalism. Instead, ask him what he thinks of
these alternate foundations for morality. Chances are, you will make him
far more uncomfortable.
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| User: "Ed" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 04:47:35 AM |
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I want to hear from the I.D./Creationists here!
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| User: "Bob Pease" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 02:53:14 PM |
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"Ed" <ed1ward2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1131166055.500548.120840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I want to hear from the I.D./Creationists here!
many Fundies do not consider Catholics as Christians.
Thus the Input of the Vatican when it opposes their worldview is simply
Satanic *****.
It is not possible to have a reasonable discourse with anyone who insists
that anything deeming to oppose their interpretation of the BIBLE is from
Satan.
Actually, many of then don't care WHAT you say, as long as they hand you a
JacKKK ChicKKK pamphlet and give you a Lord Rave.
They get Burthen Relief points this way.
Bob Pease
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Vatican Cardinal Says We Should Listen to Science |
05 Nov 2005 06:02:22 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
duke wrote:
Christianity is the basis for morality, not science.
Then explain the Holy Inquisition and the Crusades to me.
Hey, maybe you're new here (alt.atheism) but "Duke" is only a troll. For
years now, "Duke" has shown that his brain and his heart are long dead.
He defines himself as a "Roman Catholic", but he's nothing of the sort.
Bob Kolker
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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