| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"El Kabong poki_pongo at yahoo dot com" |
| Date: |
21 Mar 2005 04:36:15 PM |
| Object: |
Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
Video showing the dark-haired woman appearing to interact with her
family has been televised nationally. But a court-appointed doctor has
said the noises and facial expressions are merely reflexes.
But in Schiavo's condition, described as a persistent vegetative
state, family members can be deceived by things like eye movements and
reflexes, experts say.
"It creates this ironic combination of wakefulness without awareness,"
said Dr. James Bernat, a neurology professor at Dartmouth Medical
School.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=534&e=5&u=/ap/20050321/ap_on_he_me/brain_damaged_woman_condition
Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope
By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science Writer
NEW YORK - In the family video played over and over on TV, Terri
Schiavo seems to gaze fondly at her mother, with the hint of a smile.
On Sunday night, as Congress took up debate on her case, her father
told reporters that she responded to his teasing by making a face at
him. "It tells us she's still with us," he said.
But in Schiavo's condition, described as a persistent vegetative
state, family members can be deceived by things like eye movements and
reflexes, experts say.
"It creates this ironic combination of wakefulness without awareness,"
said Dr. James Bernat, a neurology professor at Dartmouth Medical
School.
That's because in a persistent vegetative state, the brain centers
that control wakefulness are functioning, but those that permit
conscious awareness of oneself or the environment are damaged or
destroyed.
As a result, patients close their eyes to sleep and open them when
they wake up. If a doctor brushes the eyeball with a wisp of cotton,
they may blink. If something gets caught in the throat, they will
cough. There may be limited eye movements, though patients can't
follow a person walking from one side of the room to another, for
example.
That's in contrast to a coma, in which the eyes remain closed and a
person is neither aware nor awake, or brain death, in which there is
no sign at all that the brain is functioning.
Bernat, past chairman of the American Academy of Neurology (news - web
sites)'s Ethics, Law and Humanities Committee, declined to comment
specifically on the Schiavo case. He said outward signs of persistent
vegetative state can give family members false hope.
"There's a normal tendency of family members to interpret (random)
movements as evidence of awareness," said Bernat, who recalled seeing
that happen with his own patients.
He said that when family members claim that a loved one in a
persistent vegetative state is purposefully looking at them, he asks
to accompany them to the bedside and see for himself. Sometimes, in
fact, family members really have noticed genuine signs of
consciousness and investigation shows the diagnosis was incorrect, he
said. But in his experience, Bernat said, most of the time the family
has been wrong.
Nobody can enter a patient's mind and discover what that person is
experiencing, he noted. Doctors can only say that despite what family
members might believe, "to the best of our ability we cannot convince
ourselves there is any evidence of awareness," Bernat said. Doctors
try to help the family understand how it's possible to be awake but
not aware, he said.
Patients can recover after even a year or two in a persistent
vegetative state caused by head trauma, Bernat said, although they
generally continue to be disabled. However, he said a vegetative state
that was caused by lack of blood or oxygen delivery to the brain and
has gone on more than five years is considered permanent.
Schiavo, 41, has been at the center of a long and bitter court battle
between her parents and her husband, who wants to remove her feeding
tube so she can die.
Court-appointed doctors say Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative
state, after her heart stopped beating temporarily 15 years ago,
cutting off oxygen to her brain. She did not leave any written
instructions about care, but her husband, Michael Schiavo, contends
she told him that she would not want to be kept alive artificially.
Her parents dispute that, and deny their daughter is in a vegetative
state.
Video showing the dark-haired woman appearing to interact with her
family has been televised nationally. But a court-appointed doctor has
said the noises and facial expressions are merely reflexes.
In caring for a person in a this condition, doctors are guided by what
the patient would have wanted, Bernat said. Some have indicated they
want to be treated while others have said they want to be left to die,
he said.
Usually patients can breathe without a ventilator. As in the Schiavo
case, long-term care involves a feeding tube to deliver fluids and
food to the stomach. If family members ask to stop treatment, the tube
is removed or medical teams are instructed not to treat infections,
Bernat said.
+
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
Want to know what's really going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
NOTICE: This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not
always been authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material
available to advance understanding of political, human rights, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues. I
believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright
Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107
.
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
05 Jun 2005 09:34:42 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:22:47 -0500, "Doc: The
absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 05:03:54 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com>
sez the following funny stuff:
Terri
will have a peaceful ending. She is brain dead, therefore, she is not
capable to feel hunger like you do. The notion she is being starved to
death is only your imagination.
so claims the 'expert', right??
....as much as an expert as you claim to be.
"Only when lions get to write history will hunters cease to be heroes."
---African proverb
"Look at both sides of the story"
---anon
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
05 Jun 2005 10:34:21 AM |
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On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:34:42 GMT, Don <- - - - - ---
somebody@worldwide.net> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these
here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
...as much as an expert as you claim to be.
show where I ever claimed I was 'an expert' old boy........
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
05 Jun 2005 08:05:35 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:34:21 -0400, "Doc: The
absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:34:42 GMT, Don <- - - - - ---
somebody@worldwide.net> done went and wrote as Gospel Truth in these
here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
...as much as an expert as you claim to be.
show where I ever claimed I was 'an expert' old boy........
Show where Eric claimed to be an expert.
"Only when lions get to write history will hunters cease to be heroes."
---African proverb
"Look at both sides of the story"
---anon
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 05:03:54 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:23:08 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:57:02 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:31:41 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:00:23 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:10:45 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:50:08 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:53:13 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
Spend a few hours like I did instead of just deciding she is a vegetable.
Regardless what you think of Terri's husband, Terri is gone.
Prolonging her death will only make her suffer even more.
If she "is not there", what harm would it do to let her family have her?
By prolonging her death, you delay her journey to meet Jesus. It shows
your senseless disrespect to her living soul. Her soul can't leave her
body, yet her soul can't have a real life either. I suppose, in the
judgment day, you wouldn't mind for Jesus to treat your soul as you
have done to Terri's soul, would you?
Interesting you didn't respond my above comment.
Your comment is nonsense and doesn't require a response.
Then it would be my mistake, sorry about that.
Not like you, the sad thing about Terri is she will never be able to
dance, and you still insist her to stay. Put yourself in her
situation, what would you choose?
I would have compassion on my family.
If you were in Terri's situation, you would have compassion on her
family? What kind of logic is that? I'm afraid Terri is the one who is
suffering the most in this situation.
Your hypocrisy is showing again.
According to the murderers, Terri can feel no pain.
You are mistaking me with somebody else. I'm not talking about
sympathetic about Terri's pain. She does not feel pain. I'm talking
about your disrespect to her living soul. I fear her soul will ask
Jesus for justice and revenge for being put under such humiliating
situation by you and the others.
Why not go around killing all disabled people?
I don't think brain dead is a disability. Disabled people are people
without hands, feet, eyes, ears,... but they can't be without brain.
Donb't you think they would be better off?
Nobody needs to kill anybody. Just pull the artificial plug,
A baby needs to have someone feed them. Terri is healthy and interacts with
her parents. She is just like an infant.
Terri
will have a peaceful ending. She is brain dead, therefore, she is not
capable to feel hunger like you do. The notion she is being starved to
death is only your imagination.
Who appointed you god?
I'm simply thinking for the spiritual well being of Terri's soul. I
wish her soul good luck in joining her maker as soon as possible.
And I pray for justice in seeing her murderers in prison.
So you don't really care about the situation of Terri who can not
really dance as long as you can dance. You wouldn't mind for Terri to
suffer in bed for the next 20~30 years. Is that right?
See above, hypocrite.
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 11:25:56 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
A baby needs to have someone feed them. Terri is healthy and interacts with
her parents. She is just like an infant.
Odd that it's only her parents that see this interaction. None of the
doctors who have been treating her for 15 years have seen this
interaction.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 12:18:34 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:25:56 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> sez the following funny stuff:
Odd that it's only her parents that see this interaction. None of the
doctors who have been treating her for 15 years have seen this
interaction.
Oh? Funny- the TV shots htey showed of Terri expressively reacting
with her eyes, and smiling was enough to make it appear quite positive
she DOES KNOW what is going on.
And as President Bush did say, why not 'err' on the side of LIFE??
Why slowly torture and murder her?
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 02:03:32 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:25:56 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
A baby needs to have someone feed them. Terri is healthy and interacts with
her parents. She is just like an infant.
Odd that it's only her parents that see this interaction. None of the
doctors who have been treating her for 15 years have seen this
interaction.
Depends on which doctors you ask.
Are you asking thew doctors of death?
You seemed to have forgotten the doctors that favor life.
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 03:04:30 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Donb't you think they would be better off?
Nobody needs to kill anybody. Just pull the artificial plug,
A baby needs to have someone feed them. Terri is healthy and interacts with
her parents. She is just like an infant.
So you refuse to recognize the fact that she is in a vegetative state.
Terri
will have a peaceful ending. She is brain dead, therefore, she is not
capable to feel hunger like you do. The notion she is being starved to
death is only your imagination.
Who appointed you god?
I'm simply thinking for the spiritual well being of Terri's soul. I
wish her soul good luck in joining her maker as soon as possible.
And I pray for justice in seeing her murderers in prison.
In that case, are you putting the physical importance of her body
above the spiritual freedom of her soul? Hospitals are pulling the
artificial plug on their patients everyday, are you going to judge
them all as murderers?
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 10:25:15 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:04:30 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Donb't you think they would be better off?
Nobody needs to kill anybody. Just pull the artificial plug,
A baby needs to have someone feed them. Terri is healthy and interacts with
her parents. She is just like an infant.
So you refuse to recognize the fact that she is in a vegetative state.
It's not a fact.
Nice try.
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 12:17:14 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> sez
the following funny stuff:
And I pray for justice in seeing her murderers in prison.
That makes TWO of us, CB.
So do I.
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| User: "Don - - - - - ---" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
03 Jun 2005 12:52:39 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:17:14 -0500, "Doc: The
absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:10:55 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> sez
the following funny stuff:
And I pray for justice in seeing her murderers in prison.
That makes TWO of us, CB.
So do I.
Expected from Elaine...
Examples of witnessing from Elaine/Doc:
"MORE LIES from the resident *****"
"silnce, idiot"
"hey, romanist *****"
"Now take a hike, idiot"
"...your last line of BS"
",,,what you are...a pompous *****"
"liar=johnnie"
" I shall be most delighted to leave liar-johnnie's diatribe..."
"OTC, birdbrain"
"Jim, this group has sadly declined in its Christianity."
"...which are NONE OF YOUR DAMNED BUSY-BODYING
BUSINESS."
"say whatever you like, liar,"
"My mind IS oopened to CHRIST'S TRUTH"
"BOLLOCKS." (multiple times)
"hgow 'bout you go get stuffed"
"despite thir claims that I am so 'hate-filled' when in reality, I am not."
"she's clearly just an idiot with severe mental issues..."
"YOUR opinion of me means bugger all."
"so speaks the WITCH. YOU are the indivdual..."
"more of your 'good romanism' showing itself again..."
" You need more shock therapy."
"You just pooped and stepped in it, madwoman-"
"he wass FULL OF BULL..."
"bollocks, birdie."
"the idiot said no such thing."
"You're such a liar, madam."
"Can the crap, old girl."
"You're lying through your teeth, and I'm willing to bet even THOSE are all false."
.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 03:00:02 AM |
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in article 7u074119gamtu3uo3t0nfo6r3qe6p32rb1@4ax.com, CB at
country2000@hotmail.com wrote on 3/24/05 10:23 PM:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:57:02 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:31:41 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:00:23 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:10:45 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:50:08 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:53:13 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
Spend a few hours like I did instead of just deciding she is a
vegetable.
Regardless what you think of Terri's husband, Terri is gone.
Prolonging her death will only make her suffer even more.
If she "is not there", what harm would it do to let her family have her?
By prolonging her death, you delay her journey to meet Jesus. It shows
your senseless disrespect to her living soul. Her soul can't leave her
body, yet her soul can't have a real life either. I suppose, in the
judgment day, you wouldn't mind for Jesus to treat your soul as you
have done to Terri's soul, would you?
Interesting you didn't respond my above comment.
Your comment is nonsense and doesn't require a response.
Not like you, the sad thing about Terri is she will never be able to
dance, and you still insist her to stay. Put yourself in her
situation, what would you choose?
I would have compassion on my family.
If you were in Terri's situation, you would have compassion on her
family? What kind of logic is that? I'm afraid Terri is the one who is
suffering the most in this situation.
Your hypocrisy is showing again.
According to the murderers, Terri can feel no pain.
You are mistaking me with somebody else. I'm not talking about
sympathetic about Terri's pain. She does not feel pain. I'm talking
about your disrespect to her living soul. I fear her soul will ask
Jesus for justice and revenge for being put under such humiliating
situation by you and the others.
Why not go around killing all disabled people?
Donb't you think they would be better off?
Who appointed you god?
Who appointed YOUR God the one to which everyone must bow and scrape?
Paul
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 01:19:39 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:10:45 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> sez
the following funny stuff:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:50:08 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:53:13 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
Spend a few hours like I did instead of just deciding she is a vegetable.
Regardless what you think of Terri's husband, Terri is gone.
Prolonging her death will only make her suffer even more.
If she "is not there", what harm would it do to let her family have her?
Not like you, the sad thing about Terri is she will never be able to
dance, and you still insist her to stay. Put yourself in her
situation, what would you choose?
I would have compassion on my family.
right on.
As of now, her mother says she only sees her daughter starving to
death every time she tries to close her eyes to sleep. what a hellish
was to have to remember a loved one--- and ALL because of a conniving
rat and a dishonest judge.
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| User: "Sam" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 02:03:35 PM |
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Doc: The absent-minded-professor! wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:10:45 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> sez
the following funny stuff:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:50:08 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:53:13 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
Spend a few hours like I did instead of just deciding she is a vegetable.
Regardless what you think of Terri's husband, Terri is gone.
Prolonging her death will only make her suffer even more.
If she "is not there", what harm would it do to let her family have her?
Not like you, the sad thing about Terri is she will never be able to
dance, and you still insist her to stay. Put yourself in her
situation, what would you choose?
I would have compassion on my family.
right on.
As of now, her mother says she only sees her daughter starving to
death every time she tries to close her eyes to sleep. what a hellish
was to have to remember a loved one--- and ALL because of a conniving
rat and a dishonest judge.
you mean over a dozen judges, right? including the entire 11th circuit
court of appeals, that is. plus the supreme court refused to hear the case.
and if you gotta blame people be sure to blame terri herself for the
eating disorder she allowed to cause her chemical imbalance which
stopped her breathing for a while and killed her brain.
blame her parents for raising a child so weakened by the society around
it she developed an eating disorder in the first place.
hey! you're part of society, take some responsibility for yourself!
--
Sam
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 11:12:13 AM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:03:35 GMT, Sam <srcarruth@yahoo.NO.SPAM.com>
sez the following funny stuff:
you mean over a dozen judges, right? including the entire 11th circuit
court of appeals, that is. plus the supreme court refused to hear the case.
and if you gotta blame people be sure to blame terri herself for the
eating disorder she allowed to cause her chemical imbalance which
stopped her breathing for a while and killed her brain.
well, well- I also heard another rewason. But that is neither here,
nor there.
The time is NOW I'm discussing.
blame her parents for raising a child so weakened by the society around
it she developed an eating disorder in the first place.
hey! you're part of society, take some responsibility for yourself!
Get real, and please take your trolling elsewhere.
.
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 03:09:53 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:03:35 GMT, Sam <srcarruth@yahoo.NO.SPAM.com> wrote:
Doc: The absent-minded-professor! wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:10:45 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> sez
the following funny stuff:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:50:08 -0500, Eric Brze <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:53:13 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
Spend a few hours like I did instead of just deciding she is a vegetable.
Regardless what you think of Terri's husband, Terri is gone.
Prolonging her death will only make her suffer even more.
If she "is not there", what harm would it do to let her family have her?
Not like you, the sad thing about Terri is she will never be able to
dance, and you still insist her to stay. Put yourself in her
situation, what would you choose?
I would have compassion on my family.
right on.
As of now, her mother says she only sees her daughter starving to
death every time she tries to close her eyes to sleep. what a hellish
was to have to remember a loved one--- and ALL because of a conniving
rat and a dishonest judge.
you mean over a dozen judges, right?
How many judges want to keep her alive that have not been allowed to hear her
case?
including the entire 11th circuit
court of appeals, that is. plus the supreme court refused to hear the case.
and if you gotta blame people be sure to blame terri herself for the
eating disorder she allowed to cause her chemical imbalance which
stopped her breathing for a while and killed her brain.
blame her parents for raising a child so weakened by the society around
it she developed an eating disorder in the first place.
Bulimia is speculation. It has never been proven.
Now turn on your tv and listen to dan blather type news.
hey! you're part of society, take some responsibility for yourself!
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 04:04:41 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:09:53 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
How many judges want to keep her alive that have not been allowed to hear her
case?
Sorry, but that's not how it works. The judges are chosen randomly.
So far, this case has been heard by Reagan appointees, Clinton
appointees, and one Ford appointee. The are Catholic, Protestant, and
Agnostic. They range from staunch conservative to screaming liberal.
And in evey case, they have ruled that Terri is gone, and did not want
to be kept alive by artificial means.
Do you have any idea how rare it is to see this? Normally you see
some back-and-forth. Court A says Yes, Appeals Court B say No, and
everybody is off to Washington to see what the Nine Wise Men have to
say.
Not here.. every single hearing has ended the same way.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 05:30:34 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:04:41 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:09:53 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
How many judges want to keep her alive that have not been allowed to hear her
case?
Sorry, but that's not how it works. The judges are chosen randomly.
So far, this case has been heard by Reagan appointees, Clinton
appointees, and one Ford appointee. The are Catholic, Protestant, and
Agnostic. They range from staunch conservative to screaming liberal.
And in evey case, they have ruled that Terri is gone, and did not want
to be kept alive by artificial means.
How many judges do you know that ruled on the merits of the case?
Have been to vist Terri? Why has Terri never been represented?
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 06:43:43 PM |
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CB wrote:
Sorry, but that's not how it works. The judges are chosen randomly.
So far, this case has been heard by Reagan appointees, Clinton
appointees, and one Ford appointee. The are Catholic, Protestant,
and Agnostic. They range from staunch conservative to screaming
liberal.
And in evey case, they have ruled that Terri is gone, and did not
want to be kept alive by artificial means.
How many judges do you know that ruled on the merits of the case?
Have been to vist Terri? Why has Terri never been represented?
She has been represented.
They did rule on the merits of the case.
Why should they visit?
It might bias them in some way and judges are supposed to be objective.
Even if it does not the judge is not likely to know any more about the state
she is in than anyone else.
That's why they call in expert wittnesses.
My dead friend Hank used to tell me that it was always possible to find a
doctor who would side with his side of a case no matter how weak.
This case has such little merit that even that ploy does not seem to work.
But it looks like she won. even with all the illegal intervention by the
state and national government, the federal judge has allowed the tube to
stay out.
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 11:18:59 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:43:43 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> sez the following funny stuff:
But it looks like she won. even with all the illegal intervention by the
state and national government, the federal judge has allowed the tube to
stay out.
Won, you claim? When or where did Terri ask, "Let me starve to death;
not even any waer?"
PURE fabrication on your part.
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 11:17:40 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:43:43 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> sez the following funny stuff:
She has been represented.
Oh? And HER COMMENTS WERE ????
They did rule on the merits of the case.
Oh? And HER COMMENTS WERE ????
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
24 Mar 2005 09:21:21 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:43:43 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
CB wrote:
Sorry, but that's not how it works. The judges are chosen randomly.
So far, this case has been heard by Reagan appointees, Clinton
appointees, and one Ford appointee. The are Catholic, Protestant,
and Agnostic. They range from staunch conservative to screaming
liberal.
And in evey case, they have ruled that Terri is gone, and did not
want to be kept alive by artificial means.
How many judges do you know that ruled on the merits of the case?
Have been to vist Terri? Why has Terri never been represented?
She has been represented.
No she hasn't.
They did rule on the merits of the case.
No they didn't.
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 02:59:08 AM |
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Which is all that CB can hope for in HIS old age...
Paul
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 11:29:06 AM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:21:21 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
She has been represented.
No she hasn't.
Go look up Guardian Ad Litem. Then read this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015624/posts
Terri has been represented at every hearing.
They did rule on the merits of the case.
No they didn't.
Sez you. I look at over two dozen hearings, each of which ruled on
the merits or ruled that the previous court followed the rules of
procedure, and all of them came to the same conclusion: Terri Schiavo
did not want to live like this, and her condition meets the medical
standard of a PVS.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 11:35:34 AM |
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In article <2fi841dtmqem327soul0516tgeg75g9rni@4ax.com> Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> writes:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:21:21 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
She has been represented.
No she hasn't.
Go look up Guardian Ad Litem. Then read this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015624/posts
Terri has been represented at every hearing.
Yes, I am completely at a loss as to what CB thinks
on this. He appears to think that only Michael
Schiavo has shown up for those fifteen -- probably
now closer to twenty -- motions filed by Terri's
parents.
-- cary
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 02:00:33 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:35:34 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
In article <2fi841dtmqem327soul0516tgeg75g9rni@4ax.com> Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> writes:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:21:21 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
She has been represented.
No she hasn't.
Go look up Guardian Ad Litem. Then read this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015624/posts
Terri has been represented at every hearing.
Yes, I am completely at a loss as to what CB thinks
on this. He appears to think that only Michael
Schiavo has shown up for those fifteen -- probably
now closer to twenty -- motions filed by Terri's
parents.
You just don't get it do you?
I'm not concerned about her parents being represented.
-- cary
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 02:30:43 PM |
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In article <0er841hrb14caa2uals1pk9e1u6o4kgkda@4ax.com> CB <country2000@hotmail.com> writes:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:35:34 +0000 (UTC), (Cary
Kittrell) wrote:
In article <2fi841dtmqem327soul0516tgeg75g9rni@4ax.com> Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> writes:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:21:21 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
She has been represented.
No she hasn't.
Go look up Guardian Ad Litem. Then read this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015624/posts
Terri has been represented at every hearing.
Yes, I am completely at a loss as to what CB thinks
on this. He appears to think that only Michael
Schiavo has shown up for those fifteen -- probably
now closer to twenty -- motions filed by Terri's
parents.
You just don't get it do you?
I'm not concerned about her parents being represented.
You are quite correct: I don't get it. I somehow had
the impression that Terri's parents have spent
the last thirteen years in court representing Terri.
Now you're telling me that this was not the case?
What were they doing all long dreary litigious
years... suing the neighbor over a barking dog?
Working out a divorce settlement? Straightening
out a problem with their property lines?
I, who don't get it, had thought they were
in there representing what they thought were
Terri's interests. Silly me.
-- cary
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 10:24:04 PM |
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Silly me.
I agree.
-- cary
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 01:59:46 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:29:06 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:21:21 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
She has been represented.
No she hasn't.
Go look up Guardian Ad Litem. Then read this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015624/posts
yes, a court appointe doctor.
Nothing new.
Terri has been represented at every hearing.
by a court appointed doctor.
They did rule on the merits of the case.
No they didn't.
Sez you. I look at over two dozen hearings, each of which ruled on
the merits or ruled that the previous court followed the rules of
procedure, and all of them came to the same conclusion: Terri Schiavo
did not want to live like this, and her condition meets the medical
standard of a PVS.
There is no proof that Terri would rather be dead.
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance."
Author Unknown
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: Vegetative State Can Give Kin False Hope |
25 Mar 2005 02:56:56 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:59:46 -0600, CB <country2000@hotmail.com> sez
the following funny stuff:
There is no proof that Terri would rather be dead.
SCOOP:
I just heard on CNN about fifteen minutes ago, that Terri DOES NOT
HAVE A LIVING WILL . . therefore, the SCUMBAG has been caught in yet
another lie.
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