| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"SJAB1958" |
| Date: |
20 Apr 2006 09:04:52 AM |
| Object: |
Violence and Religion |
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Can anyone show me a real account of a war started by an atheist group
of any kind?
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
20 Apr 2006 10:00:42 AM |
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"SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145541892.195015.79590@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Can anyone show me a real account of a war started by an atheist group
of any kind?
None to my knowledge. Fundamentalists like to cite Stalin, Mao, etc., but
the fact is that Karl Marx never advocated violence in any of his writings,
to my knowledge at least. However, Christian doctrine for centuries
advocated violence against heretics, pagans, Jews, etc. Here's one example
(of many, by the way):
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10exdom.htm
Note Proposition 33 -- Condemned Proposition: That heretics be burned is
against the will of the Spirit.
Yes, indeed, here it is in "black and white," folks! An "infallible"
statement by a Catholic Pope, condemning the "errors" of a heretic named
Martin Luther.
--
Come visit us at the IIDB:
http://iidb.org/vbb/index.php
The BEST Atheist website!!
.
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
05 May 2006 04:00:23 PM |
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"SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Hello,
A fact. Anyone can claim anything. Does claiming it make it so? Are
there not usually some kind of criteria used to back up a claim in
order to make it valid?
So we have had from way back professed 'Christians' warring with
others. Does that mean they are real Christians? Here is what their
leader says about war. Mt 26:52,
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
Mt 5:44,
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)
Mt 19:19,
"...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (KJV)
But maybe Jesus doesn't mind them breaking only a few of his commands.
They still call him "Lord" and do things in his name, right? Mt
7:21-23,
"21 Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform
many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!'" (NIV)
And another time Jesus said at Lu 6:46,
"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)
So where am I going with all of this? You were mentioning that
Christians were responsible for those wars. But as you can see above,
if they were real Christians they would have been following Jesus'
commands, since that is what the definition of a "Christian" is.
"Christian, noun, adjective.noun 1. a person who believes in Christ
and follows His teachings;" (The World Book Dictionary)
Thus those you mentioned above just defined themselves as NOT being
genuine Christians. So you can blame those wars on religious people
yes, but Christians, no.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Can anyone show me a real account of a war started by an atheist group
of any kind?
.
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| User: "Tim K." |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
06 May 2006 05:46:54 PM |
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"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
31 May 2006 11:06:07 AM |
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"Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Hello,
The Bible makes a distinction between true "Christianity" and false
'Christianity'. (see 2 Pe 2:1,3; 2 Ti 3:5)
Genuine Christianity is doing fine today. It is obeying its leader
Jesus in all things, including "Put your sword back in its place" and
"love your neighbor as yourself", etc. (Mt 26:52; 19:19)
One way it shows love to its neighbor is by making sure they get the
"kingdom" message that Jesus prophesied HAD to be going on throughout
the whole world, right before the end comes. Mt 24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
Many people have responded to that "kingdom" message, and are living
much better lives as a result.
Yes, the place of true Christianity is a good place today, because
they really do follow their leader Jesus, and obey all of God's
commands, regardless whether doing so is socially popular at the time,
or not. (2 Ti 3:16)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Charli=EB?=" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
31 May 2006 03:07:35 PM |
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"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:4rer72dk8qqfsfrl4aicnjj0fgm6jun1h7@4ax.com...
The Bible makes a distinction between true "Christianity" and false
'Christianity'. (see 2 Pe 2:1,3; 2 Ti 3:5)
Yes, the place of true Christianity is a good place today, because
they really do follow their leader Jesus, and obey all of God's
commands, regardless whether doing so is socially popular at the time,
or not. (2 Ti 3:16)
It looks like you never read the OT. Your god had his Hebrews slaughter
whole cities and towns down to the last woman, child and infant - except for
the young virgin girls of course <wink-wink>......... who were given, like
goats, to older men as wives and concubines (sex objects and breeders).
--
CH.......
The best defense to logic is ignorance
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-book.html
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not
based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."
~ Carl Sagan ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
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| User: "SJAB1958" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
01 Jun 2006 04:07:51 AM |
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Charli=EB wrote:
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:4rer72dk8qqfsfrl4aicnjj0fgm6jun1h7@4ax.com...
The Bible makes a distinction between true "Christianity" and false
'Christianity'. (see 2 Pe 2:1,3; 2 Ti 3:5)
Yes, the place of true Christianity is a good place today, because
they really do follow their leader Jesus, and obey all of God's
commands, regardless whether doing so is socially popular at the time,
or not. (2 Ti 3:16)
It looks like you never read the OT. Your god had his Hebrews slaughter
whole cities and towns down to the last woman, child and infant - except =
for
the young virgin girls of course <wink-wink>......... who were given, li=
ke
goats, to older men as wives and concubines (sex objects and breeders).
--
CH.......
The best defense to logic is ignorance
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-book.html
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not
based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe."
~ Carl Sagan ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
Ah but Jesus also said "I come not to bring peace but the sword, to set
father against son, mother against daugther and so on" ..... do you
obey him in that too?
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
31 May 2006 05:55:35 PM |
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On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:06:07 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com>
wrote:
"Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Hello,
The Bible makes a distinction between true "Christianity" and false
'Christianity'. (see 2 Pe 2:1,3; 2 Ti 3:5)
Genuine Christianity is doing fine today. It is obeying its leader
Jesus in all things, including "Put your sword back in its place"
Where is a swords place more than making holes in things that bleed?
That's what swords are for...
and
"love your neighbor as yourself", etc. (Mt 26:52; 19:19)
One way it shows love to its neighbor is by making sure they get the
"kingdom" message that Jesus prophesied HAD to be going on throughout
the whole world, right before the end comes. Mt 24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
Many people have responded to that "kingdom" message, and are living
much better lives as a result.
Yes, the place of true Christianity is a good place today, because
they really do follow their leader Jesus, and obey all of God's
commands, regardless whether doing so is socially popular at the time,
or not. (2 Ti 3:16)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
10 May 2006 03:28:25 PM |
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On Sat, 06 May 2006 22:46:54 GMT, "Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Dead and forgotten, where the Abrahamic superstitions belong.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
06 May 2006 07:08:36 PM |
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On Sat, 06 May 2006 22:46:54 GMT, "Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
- Refer: <yH97g.199$HA2.148@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Extinct.
--
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
01 Jun 2006 01:46:48 PM |
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Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
On Sat, 06 May 2006 22:46:54 GMT, "Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
- Refer: <yH97g.199$HA2.148@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Extinct.
Hello,
Actually it is doing quite well. Among other things, it is presently
fulfilling Jesus' words at Mt 24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
Notice that a special message about the good news (gospel) of the
"kingdom" must be preached worldwide before the "end" comes. The
religious organization fulfilling Jesus' words here, is going to be
true Christianity. And it is being done as we speak. Just pick up and
look at the cover of any Bible-aid magazine, the Watchtower, in any
language, and notice the theme of the preaching work.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
01 Jun 2006 02:21:02 PM |
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"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
snip
Actually it is doing quite well. Among other things, it is presently
fulfilling Jesus' words at Mt 24:14,
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
Oy vey. Whatever you say, chuckles <rolls eyes>
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
01 Jun 2006 08:58:10 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:46:48 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <mgdu72tp32raaguvqqgq4g7ve4259pibms@4ax.com>
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
On Sat, 06 May 2006 22:46:54 GMT, "Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
- Refer: <yH97g.199$HA2.148@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Extinct.
Hello,
Actually it is doing quite well. Among other things, it is presently
fulfilling Jesus' words at Mt 24:14,
Have you fulfilled 1 Cor 6:15-16????
6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I
then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an
harlot? God forbid.
6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one
body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
You are advised to take the the followers of Christ, and turn them in
to Prostitues.
How are go going on that one?
Or this 1 Cor 13:8, where your bible explicitly states that all
prophecies SHALL FAIL!
Are you calling the bible a liar, by saying that they have not failed?
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
What is that in the Greek?
Notice that a special message about the good news (gospel) of the
"kingdom" must be preached worldwide before the "end" comes. The
religious organization fulfilling Jesus' words here, is going to be
true Christianity. And it is being done as we speak. Just pick up and
look at the cover of any Bible-aid magazine, the Watchtower, in any
language, and notice the theme of the preaching work.
My copy has a nail hole in the middle.
It makes great dunny paper.
Please don't ever make it shiny.
("Bible-aid"?? does that mean I can get Bible-AIDS from wiping my arse
with it??)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home ***** study?
Have Jehovah's Witlesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
***********************************
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Apprentice Thumbscrew Oiler.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
01 Jun 2006 02:01:47 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 14:46:48 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com>
wrote:
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
On Sat, 06 May 2006 22:46:54 GMT, "Tim K." <timkozz@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
- Refer: <yH97g.199$HA2.148@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
But where on earth would Christianity be if they started actually following
the teachings of Christ?
Extinct.
Hello,
Actually it is doing quite well. Among other things, it is presently
fulfilling Jesus' words at Mt 24:14,
*****.
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as
a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." (NIV)
That explains it. An end-times loony.
Notice that a special message about the good news (gospel) of the
"kingdom" must be preached worldwide before the "end" comes. The
religious organization fulfilling Jesus' words here, is going to be
true Christianity. And it is being done as we speak. Just pick up and
look at the cover of any Bible-aid magazine, the Watchtower, in any
language, and notice the theme of the preaching work.
Why do you lars pretend that your mythology is "good news"?
Sincerely, James
Hardly.
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Why the ***** should anybody with more than two neurons want that?
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
05 May 2006 05:22:36 PM |
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"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com...
"SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Hello,
A fact. Anyone can claim anything. Does claiming it make it so? Are
there not usually some kind of criteria used to back up a claim in
order to make it valid?
So we have had from way back professed 'Christians' warring with
others. Does that mean they are real Christians? Here is what their
leader says about war. Mt 26:52,
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
Mt 5:44,
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)
Mt 19:19,
"...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (KJV)
But maybe Jesus doesn't mind them breaking only a few of his commands.
They still call him "Lord" and do things in his name, right? Mt
7:21-23,
"21 Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform
many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!'" (NIV)
And another time Jesus said at Lu 6:46,
"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)
So where am I going with all of this? You were mentioning that
Christians were responsible for those wars. But as you can see above,
if they were real Christians they would have been following Jesus'
commands, since that is what the definition of a "Christian" is.
Its not so easy to follow Jesus' commands evidently because many of them are
a bit ambiguous and sometimes contradictory.
The man was notorious for not making himself clear.
Besides, many Christians focus on some of the words of his Father which are
even more contradictory.
Shouldn't the Father's words override the son's?
There's the dilemma you see.
There's really no such thing as a true Christian because no one has yet been
able to pinpoint exactly what the three God persons want half the time.
Thus in the end the only true Christian according to every Christian is
oneself.
Just like water skiing its just a matter of style.
"Christian, noun, adjective.noun 1. a person who believes in Christ
and follows His teachings;" (The World Book Dictionary)
Thus those you mentioned above just defined themselves as NOT being
genuine Christians. So you can blame those wars on religious people
yes, but Christians, no.
We know one thing. Very few Christians, real or not, stood up and protested
against wars, particularly in the past.
Sincerely, James
--
Andrew W.
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of
any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of
existence.”
~ Robert Anton Wilson
"The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes
God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the
political behaviour of Western Civilization.”
~ Robert Anton Wilson
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion - Christian? |
05 May 2006 04:33:20 PM |
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James wrote:
"SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Hello,
A fact. Anyone can claim anything. Does claiming it make it so? Are
there not usually some kind of criteria used to back up a claim in
order to make it valid?
So we have had from way back professed 'Christians' warring with
others. Does that mean they are real Christians?
===>That is the oldest excuse in the world.
Those were not "real" Christians, Stalinists were not "real" Communists
or "real" Marxists, the Taliban are not "real" Muslims, etc., etc.
Here is what their
leader says about war. Mt 26:52,
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
Mt 5:44,
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)
Mt 19:19,
"...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (KJV)
===>The fellow quoted in that book was no "leader" of any
"Christians".
Christians were worshipers of an incarnate savior god named
"Christos" from the beginning.
But the story writers had their character Iesous (Jesus) say some other,
less peaceful things, such as:
Matthew 10:34.
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth;
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Luke 14:26.
"If anyone comes to Me,
and does not hate his own father and mother
and wife and children
and brothers and sisters,
yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
Luke 22:36.
And He said to them,
"But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along,
likewise also a bag,
and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one."
Luke 19:27.
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them,
bring them here and slay them in my presence."
So, you see, it depends on what a Christian chooses to follow
and what a Christian chooses to ignore. -- L.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
05 May 2006 06:51:37 PM |
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On Fri, 05 May 2006 17:00:23 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <qg1n52dtelads7i0tthriqskmienb02cio@4ax.com>
"SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Hello,
A fact. Anyone can claim anything. Does claiming it make it so? Are
there not usually some kind of criteria used to back up a claim in
order to make it valid?
So we have had from way back professed 'Christians' warring with
others. Does that mean they are real Christians? Here is what their
leader says about war. Mt 26:52,
""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
Mt 5:44,
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)
Mt 19:19,
"...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (KJV)
But maybe Jesus doesn't mind them breaking only a few of his commands.
They still call him "Lord" and do things in his name, right? Mt
7:21-23,
"21 Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform
many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!'" (NIV)
And another time Jesus said at Lu 6:46,
"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)
So where am I going with all of this? You were mentioning that
Christians were responsible for those wars. But as you can see above,
if they were real Christians they would have been following Jesus'
commands, since that is what the definition of a "Christian" is.
"Christian, noun, adjective.noun 1. a person who believes in Christ
and follows His teachings;" (The World Book Dictionary)
Thus those you mentioned above just defined themselves as NOT being
genuine Christians. So you can blame those wars on religious people
yes, but Christians, no.
Sincerely, James
Ahh!!
The sound of those old-time Christian bagpipes!
But James, *you* are not a "real" Christian either, so why should we
listen to the words that have been inspired by Beelzebub?
Do you bury your dead, or let them do it themselves, as Jesus
commanded? Mat 8:22, 18:8
Do you murder children who are rude to their parents? Why nto? Jesus
COMMANDS it. 7:10
And that is just the start.
There are hundreds of direct commands from Jesus that I guarantee that
you do not follow.
It therefore stands that you, James, are NOT a TRUE Christian, but a
mouthpiece of Satan!
--
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
06 May 2006 08:40:15 PM |
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Ahh!!
The sound of those old-time Christian bagpipes!
Ahh!
The sound of a wacko equating atrocities with
using sugar in your porridge!
I suppose I can eat steak every day
and still call myself a vegitarian?
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
10 May 2006 03:27:44 PM |
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On 6 May 2006 18:40:15 -0700, wrote in alt.atheism
Ahh!!
The sound of those old-time Christian bagpipes!
Ahh!
The sound of a wacko equating atrocities with
using sugar in your porridge!
Yes, you are that wacko. Excellant self-observation.
I suppose I can eat steak every day
and still call myself a vegitarian?
Christians casually violate the injunctions in their holy tome of
malevolence and still call themselves Christians, so why not?
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
10 May 2006 03:21:38 PM |
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On Fri, 05 May 2006 17:00:23 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote
in alt.atheism
"SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com>
Re: Violence and Religion
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Hello,
A fact. Anyone can claim anything.
And Christians do.
Does claiming it make it so?
No, but Christians repeat the claims, ad nauseum, anyway.
Are there not usually some kind of criteria used to back up a claim in
order to make it valid?
Usually, yes, but Christianity gives itself an exemption.
So we have had from way back professed 'Christians' warring with
others.
Free clue, moron, *every* Christian is a professed one.
Does that mean they are real Christians?
Please get a basic education, moron. Those folks are saying the same
question about you! Guess what? They can back up their "no" via the
same tome of drooling idiocy you do.
Here is what their
leader says about war. Mt 26:52,
Stupid *****.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
20 Apr 2006 10:52:13 AM |
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On 20 Apr 2006 07:04:52 -0700, "SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1145541892.195015.79590@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Can anyone show me a real account of a war started by an atheist group
of any kind?
Define "war".
Define "Atheist Group".
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
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| User: "Founder of the Gazite City Gate Restoration Society" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
20 Apr 2006 10:30:35 AM |
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On 20 Apr 2006 07:04:52 -0700, "SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote:
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Can anyone show me a real account of a war started by an atheist group
of any kind?
The USSR invades Afghanistan December 1979.
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
.
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
20 Apr 2006 10:50:01 AM |
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"Founder of the Gazite City Gate Restoration Society" <ettu@Brute.org> wrote
in message news:rt9f42pvqf4davjh74o7n7j0dobfpfp5b7@4ax.com...
On 20 Apr 2006 07:04:52 -0700, "SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote:
In mid-2005 the world population was about 6.4 billion, roughly 33% of
these are christians, and only 2% atheists. Yet according to certain
fundamentalists it is the atheists who are responsible for the all the
violent crime and troubles of the world.
Yet when one looks back over time, the majority of wars (typically
recognised as a crime against humanity) are caused by religions coming
into conflict.
Hitler and Churchill were both 'good' Christians. Bush and Blair are
'good' Christians' Saddam their enemy a Muslim. King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Can anyone show me a real account of a war started by an atheist group
of any kind?
The USSR invades Afghanistan December 1979.
Do you honestly believe that this was a "religious war" or a "war started by
atheists"? Documentation, please! Who made the decision to invade
Afghanistan? If so, why? And, was this person an explicit atheist?
--
Come visit us at the IIDB:
http://iidb.org/vbb/index.php
The BEST Atheist website!!
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
21 Apr 2006 07:32:44 PM |
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On 20 Apr 2006 07:04:52 -0700, "SJAB1958" <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote:
King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
I beg to differ.
During king/emperor Charlemagne's reign Viking raids sporadically
started. Since they got kicked in the rear massively, the Vikings
decided prudence was the better part of valor.
The Viking raids started in earnest AFTER Charles died.
King Charlemagne did went to war against the Saxons, and converted
them by force of arms. Much like mohammedans like to do, only with one
choice less. (Convert, submit, die - Charles left out the 'submit'
part.)
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
20 Apr 2006 12:12:15 PM |
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SJAB1958 wrote:
King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Umm.
As much as I'd _love_ to accept that, being of the Viking faith myself, I'd
like to get some source from you. I don't claim to be an expert in history
where the ancient precursors of modern Asatru are concerned, but I did
check out at least the basics... and for whatever reason I never heard
about a "first strike" of charlie.
Could you point me to a good URL about that? Thank you in advance :)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
Why I am not a christian:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus/nojebus
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| User: "SJAB1958" |
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| Title: Re: Violence and Religion |
22 Apr 2006 04:07:17 AM |
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Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian wrote:
SJAB1958 wrote:
King Charlamange
another 'good' Christian who attacked the Vikings because the refused
to be converted, which led to the Vikings retaliating (but history
chose to ignore this fact and blamed the Vikings for all the troubles
in Europe at that time and not the leader of the Holy Roman Empire.
Umm.
As much as I'd _love_ to accept that, being of the Viking faith myself, I'd
like to get some source from you. I don't claim to be an expert in history
where the ancient precursors of modern Asatru are concerned, but I did
check out at least the basics... and for whatever reason I never heard
about a "first strike" of charlie.
Could you point me to a good URL about that? Thank you in advance :)
as requested here is a link that may reveal that what I said is fairly
accurate. Charlemange was expanding his territory in all directions,
forcing people to convert to Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemange
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
Why I am not a christian:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus/nojebus
.
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