| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"IKnowHimDoYou" |
| Date: |
02 Jun 2004 10:36:44 AM |
| Object: |
Wages or Gift? |
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
2. Sin versus God(the sinless one): We might even define sin as the
opposite of godliness. Sin is the deed which merits the wages, while God
is the Being who gives the gift. Sin is a wrong action, attitude, or
thought, while God is a person, active and loving. Sin takes; God gives.
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The gift of eternal life is not given haphazardly. It is based on the
finished work of Jesus Christ, the one who Himself collected our wages for
our own sin. The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord." JDM
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 03:05:34 PM |
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"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com...
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
Ah, so acceptance (worship) is required payment for the "gift".
I see...
Interesting that the god and Jesus characters don't even know what a gift
is.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "John W" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 08:35:02 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:05:34 -0500, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com...
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
Ah, so acceptance (worship) is required payment for the "gift".
Ridiculous. If you take a wedding gift to your boss's wedding, and
when you leave, you notice it's the only one that's still on the
table, they didn't "accept" it; they didn't reach out and pick it up
and take it with them.
The ER nurse can bring a pint of blood into the EF to plug into my
arm, but if I'm concerned with getting HIV from that blood, I can
refuse to accept it.
Receiving gifts NECESSITATES accepting them, and you are merely
playing with words.
Get serious. We're discussing life and death here.
jw
I see...
Interesting that the god and Jesus characters don't even know what a gift
is.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
03 Jun 2004 11:38:17 AM |
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"John W @yahoo.com>" <john_weatherly47<no> wrote in message
news:vsvsb0l8s2rj41jb3tgac3d8gi3doklck2@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:05:34 -0500, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com...
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and
eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a
gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly
from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers
His
gifts on those who will accept them.
Ah, so acceptance (worship) is required payment for the "gift".
Ridiculous. If you take a wedding gift to your boss's wedding, and
when you leave, you notice it's the only one that's still on the
table, they didn't "accept" it; they didn't reach out and pick it up
and take it with them.
I would expect to see the "gift" left on the table if it had a card on it
saying "If you take this gift, you have to love me".
Wouldn't you?
Placing a condition on acceptance obviates any claim of a gift.
The ER nurse can bring a pint of blood into the EF to plug into my
arm, but if I'm concerned with getting HIV from that blood, I can
refuse to accept it.
The blood, if you're not paying for it, IS a gift. And you can choose to
accept it or not. But the supposed salvation IS supposed to be payed for, in
love and worship, and so is NOT a gift.
Receiving gifts NECESSITATES accepting them, and you are merely
playing with words.
If the offer of the "gift" is conditional, then it's not a gift. Period.
Stop using that word.
Get serious. We're discussing life and death here.
It's worse than not being a gift. It's a protection racket. Al Capone (god)
offers to protect your shop from unexplained firebombs (offers to protect
your soul from the fires of hell) and all you have to do it pay the
protection money (all you have to do is love the god). Of course it's Al
(god) who burns the shops if they don't pay (who sends your soul to hell if
you don't love god).
"Nice immortal soul ya got dere. Shame if somethin' was to happen to it..."
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
06 Jun 2004 09:28:28 AM |
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"John W @yahoo.com>" <john_weatherly47<no> wrote in message
news:vsvsb0l8s2rj41jb3tgac3d8gi3doklck2@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
Receiving gifts NECESSITATES accepting them, and you are merely
playing with words.
Get serious. We're discussing life and death here.
Big fucking deal !
Pah !
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
03 Jun 2004 12:05:46 AM |
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John W <john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:vsvsb0l8s2rj41jb3tgac3d8gi3doklck2@4ax.com:
Get serious. We're discussing life and death here.
Boot to the head. *wha-THUMP.*
You're talking about religion, son. That's not a life-and-death matter.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.
Try New "Religion Pockets!" Flaky crust with a tasty ***** center!
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 10:52:51 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 18:35:02 -0700, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:05:34 -0500, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com...
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
Ah, so acceptance (worship) is required payment for the "gift".
Ridiculous. If you take a wedding gift to your boss's wedding, and
when you leave, you notice it's the only one that's still on the
table, they didn't "accept" it; they didn't reach out and pick it up
and take it with them.
The ER nurse can bring a pint of blood into the EF to plug into my
arm, but if I'm concerned with getting HIV from that blood, I can
refuse to accept it.
Receiving gifts NECESSITATES accepting them, and you are merely
playing with words.
Get serious. We're discussing life and death here.
No, we're discussing a particular myth that may seem extremely
important to you, but to a non-believer, is just a bit of silly
superstition that is very difficult to take remotely seriously.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 10:28:03 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach John W <john_weatherly47:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:05:34 -0500, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
"IKnowHimDoYou" <IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com...
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but".
It contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death
and eternal life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while
a gift cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow
directly from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow
directly from having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God
follows directly from God's own character. He is a loving, gracious
God, who freely showers His gifts on those who will accept them.
Ah, so acceptance (worship) is required payment for the "gift".
Ridiculous. If you take a wedding gift to your boss's wedding, and
when you leave, you notice it's the only one that's still on the
table, they didn't "accept" it; they didn't reach out and pick it up
and take it with them.
The ER nurse can bring a pint of blood into the EF to plug into my
arm, but if I'm concerned with getting HIV from that blood, I can
refuse to accept it.
Receiving gifts NECESSITATES accepting them, and you are merely
playing with words.
The above examples of gifts do not compare with the conditional "gift"
offered by Christianity, which is NEGATED by the refusal of worship of, or
belief in the giver. If I refuse to accept the "gift" offered by your
religion, is it really going to sit there on the table? No-o-o-o, there
are consequences for not accepting the gift, aren't there?
Get serious. We're discussing life and death here.
It's difficult to be serious when discussing the ludicrous.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 07:06:25 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote in
news:IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com:
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
Freely given gifts don't have strings attached. Your mythology contradicts
itself.
Klazmon.
<SNIP>
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 04:57:50 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote in message news:<IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com>...
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
No, he's not. Jesus is dead. God never was. Get on with life. If we
work hard, stay civilized, and teach our kids science, maybe our
grandkids will live for thousands of years. But nobody and nothing
lives forever.
If you don't like it, tough. We all have to deal with it.
<snip more self-righteous wishful thinking>
Kermit
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 03:40:05 PM |
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(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord.
See, here's the indication that people oft' fall below themselves.
They have allowed themselves to be backed into a corner with
[seemingly] nowhere to turn. Then comes the bible thumper. Promises!
All the errs [sins] will be forgiven! Just believe! The Lord's blood
will sanctify you!
Of course, the lazy ***** that refuses to set his errs straight fall
for the sales pitch, to their knees, sing praise to the Lord, pray and
POOF! it's all better now.
Can't you people deal with the reactions to your actions, here and
now?
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| User: "John W" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 08:36:31 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:40:05 -0400, Spooked <> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord.
See, here's the indication that people oft' fall below themselves.
They have allowed themselves to be backed into a corner with
[seemingly] nowhere to turn. Then comes the bible thumper. Promises!
All the errs [sins] will be forgiven! Just believe! The Lord's blood
will sanctify you!
Of course, the lazy ***** that refuses to set his errs straight fall
for the sales pitch, to their knees, sing praise to the Lord, pray and
POOF! it's all better now.
Can't you people deal with the reactions to your actions, here and
now?
Salvation and being born again and enjoying God's kingdom all begin in
this life.
jw
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
06 Jun 2004 09:29:41 AM |
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"John W @yahoo.com>" <john_weatherly47<no> wrote in message
news:830tb09ggjsur761lrvsriapn499kuj1b7@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:40:05 -0400, Spooked <> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord.
See, here's the indication that people oft' fall below themselves.
They have allowed themselves to be backed into a corner with
[seemingly] nowhere to turn. Then comes the bible thumper. Promises!
All the errs [sins] will be forgiven! Just believe! The Lord's blood
will sanctify you!
Of course, the lazy ***** that refuses to set his errs straight fall
for the sales pitch, to their knees, sing praise to the Lord, pray and
POOF! it's all better now.
Can't you people deal with the reactions to your actions, here and
now?
Salvation and being born again and enjoying God's kingdom all begin in
this life.
You don't seem to have the brains granted by being born once....
let alone twice !
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Spooked " |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
06 Jun 2004 10:07:48 AM |
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"Jez" <iced_spear@AwaySPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
"John W @yahoo.com>" <john_weatherly47<no> wrote in message
news:830tb09ggjsur761lrvsriapn499kuj1b7@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
Salvation and being born again and enjoying God's kingdom all begin in
this life.
You don't seem to have the brains granted by being born once....
let alone twice !
Always pursuing mindless strife!
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 10:32:07 PM |
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In article <830tb09ggjsur761lrvsriapn499kuj1b7@4ax.com>, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Salvation and being born again and enjoying God's kingdom all begin in
this life.
jw
With charity and food stamps for some
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
04 Jun 2004 08:31:27 PM |
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In article <830tb09ggjsur761lrvsriapn499kuj1b7@4ax.com>, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Salvation and being born again and enjoying God's kingdom all begin in
this life.
jw
With charity and food stamps?
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
03 Jun 2004 03:57:07 AM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 18:36:31 -0700, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> cross psted to
alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.atheism:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:40:05 -0400, Spooked <> wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord.
See, here's the indication that people oft' fall below themselves.
They have allowed themselves to be backed into a corner with
[seemingly] nowhere to turn. Then comes the bible thumper. Promises!
All the errs [sins] will be forgiven! Just believe! The Lord's blood
will sanctify you!
Of course, the lazy ***** that refuses to set his errs straight fall
for the sales pitch, to their knees, sing praise to the Lord, pray and
POOF! it's all better now.
Can't you people deal with the reactions to your actions, here and
now?
Salvation and being born again and enjoying God's kingdom all begin in
this life.
Sjonny? The word assertion? Can you look it up in a dictionary?
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| User: "Eric" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 02:19:42 PM |
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IKnowHimDoYou wrote:
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
2. Sin versus God(the sinless one): We might even define sin as the
opposite of godliness. Sin is the deed which merits the wages, while God
is the Being who gives the gift. Sin is a wrong action, attitude, or
thought, while God is a person, active and loving. Sin takes; God gives.
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The gift of eternal life is not given haphazardly. It is based on the
finished work of Jesus Christ, the one who Himself collected our wages for
our own sin. The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord." JDM
At the risk of replying to a possible troll-bot, I would like to add
that what you refer to as "not giving haphazardly" actually refers to a
set of conditions for receiving the "gift" which get defined later.
Also, since the "gift" is advertised and promised to those fulfilling
these conditions, it is more analagous to a bribe than a gift.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 08:28:55 PM |
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IKnowHimDoYou wrote:
Wages or Gift?
Either way, the amount is pretty lousy....
Paul
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 08:20:22 PM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, IKnowHimDoYou poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
Wages or Gift?
Neither. In this case, it's baloney.
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but".
Nope. The key to understanding is knowing that concepts like sin and
salvation commit the Naturalistic Fallacy.
It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
Yes, I imagine it's always useful to be able to contrast fallacious
notions.
....
Regards,
Josef
The priest rules through the invention of sin.
-- Neitzsche
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 04:38:33 PM |
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In article <IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com>,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death...
But after they take out taxes, it turns out all you get is a tired,
run-down feeling. {;-)
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 04:13:35 PM |
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In article <nemo0037-AA1643.17383202062004@news01.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
In article <IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com>,
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death...
But after they take out taxes, it turns out all you get is a tired,
run-down feeling. {;-)
Oh very droll!!!!!!
Nice one
++++++++++++++
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
03 Jun 2004 04:08:31 AM |
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In article <pintaguinness-0306040813360001@ppp3446.dyn.pacific.net.au>,
(Silver Blaze) wrote:
In article <nemo0037-AA1643.17383202062004@news01.east.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
In article <IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com>,
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death...
But after they take out taxes, it turns out all you get is a tired,
run-down feeling. {;-)
Oh very droll!!!!!!
Nice one
++++++++++++++
Meh. I picked it up from somewhere or other...
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 04:12:40 PM |
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In article <IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com>,
IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com (IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
I think one landed on your head a while back
The gift of eternal life is not given haphazardly. It is based on the
finished work of Jesus Christ, the one who Himself collected our wages for
our own sin.
Is this the new version of scripture?
He was led like a lamb to the time keeper and collecteth his wages.
Whereupon he looketh at the amount and crieth aloud. Forgive them Lord
for they know not what I do.
Then he crieth once more, and inserteth his card in the time clock.
And he raiseth his hand in a final wave to John and his own mother,
standing a little distance from the clock. And thereupon he clocketh off.
(Thanks be to God)
+++++++++++++++++++++
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 11:58:49 AM |
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In article <IKnowHim-0206040836440001@pm6-21.kalama.com>, IKnowHimDoYou says...
Wages or Gift?
Neither - Try horse-hockey.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
03 Jun 2004 04:02:14 AM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:36:44 -0700 the ET form known as
IKnowHimDoYou<IKnowHim@leavingsoon.com> sent a radio signal across the
vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
2. Sin versus God(the sinless one): We might even define sin as the
opposite of godliness. Sin is the deed which merits the wages, while God
is the Being who gives the gift. Sin is a wrong action, attitude, or
thought, while God is a person, active and loving. Sin takes; God gives.
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The gift of eternal life is not given haphazardly. It is based on the
finished work of Jesus Christ, the one who Himself collected our wages for
our own sin. The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord." JDM
You forgot to credit the ICR. The place where you or someone else
lifted this silly piece. Although a few of the words have been
changed. For example "haphazardly" for "capriciously".
http://www.icr.org/pubs/dop/dp9805.htm
EDITOR: Henry M. Morris
CO-EDITOR: John D. Morris
MANAGING EDITOR: Donald H. Rohrer
ASSISTANT EDITOR: Ruth Richards
ELECTRONIC EDITOR: Don Barber
Contributors
KBC - Ken B. Cumming, Ph.D.
CJH - Mrs. Connie J. Horn
PGH - Paul G. Humber, M.S.
HMM - Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.
HMM III - Henry M. Morris III, D.Min.
JDM - John D. Morris, Ph.D.
NPS - Norman P. Spotts, D.D.
--
epicurus1*at*optusnet*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 03:43:42 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:36:44 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The second sentence contradicts the first.
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| User: "John W" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 08:38:02 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:43:42 GMT, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:36:44 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The second sentence contradicts the first.
You err in approaching the Infinite God with your finite mind.
Let me give you an example. Kindly explain nuclear fission to me using
only the word "but".
jw
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| User: "Silver Blaze" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
04 Jun 2004 08:32:56 PM |
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In article <n50tb0lhovpjuet2ndaqtle3iutv4qu3ea@4ax.com>, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
Let me give you an example. Kindly explain nuclear fission to me using
only the word "but".
jw
Aren't you rather inciting the supplying of WMD information to possible
terrorist organisations here.
:-)
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 10:50:51 PM |
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On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 18:38:02 -0700, John W
<john_weatherly47<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:43:42 GMT, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:36:44 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The second sentence contradicts the first.
You err in approaching the Infinite God with your finite mind.
You err in trying to defend mutually contradictory propositions.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 10:32:13 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach John W <john_weatherly47:
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:43:42 GMT, raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com>
wrote:
john w replied under copyright 2004
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:36:44 -0700,
(IKnowHimDoYou) wrote:
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in
separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The second sentence contradicts the first.
You err in approaching the Infinite God with your finite mind.
Cueing "mysterious ways" music.
Let me give you an example. Kindly explain nuclear fission to me using
only the word "but".
Kindly explain nuclear fission to me using only the word "god".
No, on second thought, don't.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Wages or Gift? |
02 Jun 2004 02:13:39 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach IKnowHimDoYou:
Wages or Gift?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord"(romans 6:23).
"The key to this verse and its teaching is the little word "but". It
contrasts the difference between lost and saved; eternal death and eternal
life:
1.wages versus gift: Wages are something that must be earned, while a gift
cannot be earned; it is free. The wages of employment follow directly
from having done the work, just as the wages of sin follow directly from
having done the sin. Similarly, the gift of God follows directly from
God's own character. He is a loving, gracious God, who freely showers His
gifts on those who will accept them.
2. Sin versus God(the sinless one): We might even define sin as the
opposite of godliness. Sin is the deed which merits the wages, while God
is the Being who gives the gift. Sin is a wrong action, attitude, or
thought, while God is a person, active and loving. Sin takes; God gives.
3. Death eternal versus life eternal: Conscious existence in separation
from God versus conscious existence in communion with God. Sin brings
death, surely and permanently; God gives eternal life.
The gift of eternal life is not given haphazardly. It is based on the
finished work of Jesus Christ, the one who Himself collected our wages for
our own sin. The sinner who accepts God's free gift, through Jesus
Christ, can hardly fail to recognize Him as Lord." JDM
Of course, this is all meaningless since there is no god.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
It's my funeral and I'll fry if I want to...
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