| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"MarkA" |
| Date: |
17 Jul 2004 11:44:53 AM |
| Object: |
Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
As I was browsing in Barnes & Noble the other day, I read a few pages in
a book on the Gospel of Mary. It was written from the perspective of a
bible scholar, and talked about the political infighting that went on in
the early 2nd century, eventually producing the "official" New Testament,
and the Nicene Creed. Apparently, people could be killing each other over
a very different set of divine truths if the politics had gone a little
differently.
I know that there a quite a few bible scholars in this group, and I would
like to read more on how Christianity evolved in its early years. What
books would you recommend?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
19 Jul 2004 09:45:01 AM |
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MarkA wrote:
As I was browsing in Barnes & Noble the other day, I read a few pages in
a book on the Gospel of Mary. It was written from the perspective of a
bible scholar, and talked about the political infighting that went on in
the early 2nd century, eventually producing the "official" New Testament,
and the Nicene Creed. Apparently, people could be killing each other over
a very different set of divine truths if the politics had gone a little
differently.
I know that there a quite a few bible scholars in this group, and I would
like to read more on how Christianity evolved in its early years. What
books would you recommend?
Bart Erhman has some good ones.
http://20th-century-history-books.com/search_Bart_D._Ehrman/searchBy_Author.html
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
17 Jul 2004 12:26:01 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:44:53 +0000, MarkA wrote:
As I was browsing in Barnes & Noble the other day, I read a few pages in
a book on the Gospel of Mary. It was written from the perspective of a
bible scholar, and talked about the political infighting that went on in
the early 2nd century, eventually producing the "official" New
Testament, and the Nicene Creed. Apparently, people could be killing
each other over a very different set of divine truths if the politics
had gone a little differently.
I know that there a quite a few bible scholars in this group, and I
would like to read more on how Christianity evolved in its early years.
What books would you recommend?
The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? by Timothy
Freke, Peter Gandy
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0609807986/002-4260423-4863249?v=glance
You should be able to find this book at Barnes & Noble. Black softcover.
Easy to spot. Look under the Religion section.
Chapter 9 covers this. Read about the Therapeutae.
I'm still reading up on this in the aforementioned book, but it looks like
this. The Jews had their book, the Old Testament which I think is
allegorical. I need to figure it out. The Mystery Religions (pagan) had
their godman. The savior. This story existed clear back to the Egyptians.
You can find a lot on this here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/
http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getting_started_pocm.html
Now, once some Jews learned of this savior story, they wanted to add these
allegories to their own. The New Testament was born. The New testament
is allegorical and deals with solar mythology. The son of God is the SUN
of God.
Check this out:
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/christ2002.htm
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/index.htm
Check out "The Last Supper" painting which has 4 sets of 3 people,
indicating the 4 seasons and Jesus the SUN. Da Vinci knew the truth.
Notice that the New Testament was originally written in Greek and is
infused with tons of Greek philosophy. Freke and Gandy cover this quite
well, but completely ignore the solar mythology.
The Gnostic Christians as they came to be called knew the stories were
allegorical, but once Emperor Constantine stepped in, things went to hell
in a handbasket. The Bible began to be taken literally and the Catholic
(means Universal) church was born. Scrolls were burned, temples
destroyed, and people were persecuted for not agreeing with the official
state religion.
Other things of interest:
The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold
by Acharya S
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932813747/qid=1090084379/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-4260423-4863249?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
You should be able to find this book in the New Age section of Barnes &
Noble. It has a purplish cover and is fairly thick. It has TONS of
information, but I'm not so sure it is all fact.
Jesus Christ, Sun of God: Ancient Cosmology and Early Christian Symbolism
by David Fideler
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0835606961/qid=1090084482/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-4260423-4863249?v=glance&s=books
This book is out of print, but I've ordered one from Amazon.
I've noticed the solar mythology in "The Matrix: Revolutions" at the very
end of the movie with the "child" robot that looks like the Sun and has
"rays" of robots that sweep out from it.
SPOILER ALERT from here down about "I, Robot":
Yesterday, I was grinning ear to ear while watching "I, Robot". Sonny,
the robot, is the savior who is put to death and and comes back to life.
Appropriately named. Notice the "cross" in the background, the partially
destroyed bridge.
Also notice the name of the central computer. V.I.C.I. if memory servers.
Means "I Conquered". As in Vinnie Vidi Vici. I came, I saw, I conquered.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
17 Jul 2004 06:15:03 PM |
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"Brainfried" <no@way.com> wrote
Now, once some Jews learned of this savior story, they wanted
to add these allegories to their own. The New Testament was
born. The New testament is allegorical and deals with solar
mythology. The son of God is the SUN of God.
It wasn't always so subtle.
Josephus, writing about the Essenes, described what appears at
times to be full-fledged Sun worship.
This is significant for a couple of reasons. The first is that the famous
"Dead Sea Scrolls" are attributed to the Essenes, and the second is
that they are strongly associated with the later Christians.
They were a Jewish sect -- one of many -- a rival sect to the Pharisees
mentioned in the bible (of which Josephus was one).
Oh. Jesus didn't have much use for the Pharisees, at least not according
to the bible. For entertainment value, find one of the countless
"Christians" who use Josephus to support their "Truth." Ask them how
the bible depicts the Pharisees, and what Jesus would make about
people appealing to the authority of the Pharisees in his name.
An interesting sub-note here is that "the Essenes" was not the group's
name. It was the name applied to them by other Jews and not what they
called themselves. What name they called themselves, if any, has yet
to be established.
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
17 Jul 2004 06:30:51 PM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:15:03 -0400, JTEM wrote:
"Brainfried" <no@way.com> wrote
Now, once some Jews learned of this savior story, they wanted to add
these allegories to their own. The New Testament was born. The New
testament is allegorical and deals with solar mythology. The son of
God is the SUN of God.
It wasn't always so subtle.
Very true. Old art has Jesus portrayed with a HUGE halo looking just like
the usual depiction of the Sun. (circle with rays shooting out) Jesus
Christ literally means "anointed savior". It is a title that can be
applied to any godman. If you lived way back when and were reading the
original Greek New Testament, you'd know this. However, due to the
translations, a great deal of the true meaning has been "lost".
Josephus, writing about the Essenes, described what appears at times to
be full-fledged Sun worship.
This is significant for a couple of reasons. The first is that the
famous "Dead Sea Scrolls" are attributed to the Essenes, and the second
is that they are strongly associated with the later Christians.
They were a Jewish sect -- one of many -- a rival sect to the Pharisees
mentioned in the bible (of which Josephus was one).
Oh. Jesus didn't have much use for the Pharisees, at least not according
to the bible. For entertainment value, find one of the countless
"Christians" who use Josephus to support their "Truth." Ask them how the
bible depicts the Pharisees, and what Jesus would make about people
appealing to the authority of the Pharisees in his name.
An interesting sub-note here is that "the Essenes" was not the group's
name. It was the name applied to them by other Jews and not what they
called themselves. What name they called themselves, if any, has yet to
be established.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
19 Jul 2004 12:09:45 AM |
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"Brainfried" <no@way.com> wrote
JTEM wrote:
"Brainfried" <no@way.com> wrote
Now, once some Jews learned of this savior story, they wanted to
add these allegories to their own. The New Testament was born.
The New testament is allegorical and deals with solar mythology.
The son of God is the SUN of God.
It wasn't always so subtle.
Very true. Old art has Jesus portrayed with a HUGE halo looking just
like the usual depiction of the Sun. (circle with rays shooting out)
Even less subtle than that. As I said, Josephus described what appears
to be full-blown Sun worship amongst at least one influential Jewish
sect.
Josephus, describing how the Essenes pooped:
"They squat there and are covered by their cloaks so as not to offend
the rays of God."
(Book reference, no URL)
The official Catholic take:
"The sun was held in such reverence as to awaken a suspicion of
idolatry."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05546a.htm
How about:
Structures at Qumran
suggest ancient sun cult
http://www.kat.gr/kat/History/Txt/El/MsZ/Qumran.htm
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
18 Jul 2004 08:14:46 AM |
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On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:44:53 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:
Try a Catholic bookstore instead of B&N.
As I was browsing in Barnes & Noble the other day, I read a few pages in
a book on the Gospel of Mary. It was written from the perspective of a
bible scholar, and talked about the political infighting that went on in
the early 2nd century, eventually producing the "official" New Testament,
and the Nicene Creed. Apparently, people could be killing each other over
a very different set of divine truths if the politics had gone a little
differently.
I know that there a quite a few bible scholars in this group, and I would
like to read more on how Christianity evolved in its early years. What
books would you recommend?
duke
*****
Matthew 11
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
*****
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
18 Jul 2004 10:02:44 AM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 08:14:46 -0500, duke wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:44:53 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:
Try a Catholic bookstore instead of B&N.
As I was browsing in Barnes & Noble the other day, I read a few pages in
a book on the Gospel of Mary. It was written from the perspective of a
bible scholar, and talked about the political infighting that went on in
the early 2nd century, eventually producing the "official" New Testament,
and the Nicene Creed. Apparently, people could be killing each other over
a very different set of divine truths if the politics had gone a little
differently.
I know that there a quite a few bible scholars in this group, and I would
like to read more on how Christianity evolved in its early years. What
books would you recommend?
duke
*****
Matthew 11
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
*****
Read my replies to MarkA and follow my links if you dare. You will learn
the truth, the real truth, not the concocted dogma violently imposed on
the world by the Catholic church.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
18 Jul 2004 01:44:09 PM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:02:44 GMT, Brainfried <no@way.com> wrote:
Try a Catholic bookstore instead of B&N.
As I was browsing in Barnes & Noble the other day, I read a few pages in
a book on the Gospel of Mary. It was written from the perspective of a
bible scholar, and talked about the political infighting that went on in
the early 2nd century, eventually producing the "official" New Testament,
and the Nicene Creed. Apparently, people could be killing each other over
a very different set of divine truths if the politics had gone a little
differently.
I know that there a quite a few bible scholars in this group, and I would
like to read more on how Christianity evolved in its early years. What
books would you recommend?
Read my replies to MarkA and follow my links if you dare. You will learn
the truth, the real truth, not the concocted dogma violently imposed on
the world by the Catholic church.
But why aren't your words the concocted garbage imposed on the world by you?
duke
*****
Matthew 11
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in
heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
*****
.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
19 Jul 2004 06:22:07 AM |
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 08:14:46 -0500, duke wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:44:53 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:
Try a Catholic bookstore instead of B&N.
Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather read something from someone who isn't
trying to sell the religion.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Brainfried" |
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| Title: Re: Wanted: references on the early history of christianity |
19 Jul 2004 08:15:29 AM |
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On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:22:07 +0000, MarkA wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 08:14:46 -0500, duke wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 16:44:53 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:
Try a Catholic bookstore instead of B&N.
Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather read something from someone who isn't
trying to sell the religion.
I agree completely.
If something is really true, it can stand up to any amount of
counterarguments.
Religion is a house of cards.
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