| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
07 Nov 2005 03:27:23 AM |
| Object: |
Warns of efforts to `Christianize America' |
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/641831.html
ADL's Foxman warns of efforts to `Christianize America'
By Shlomo Shamir
NEW YORK - Institutionalized Christianity in the U.S. has grown so
extremist that it poses a tangible danger to the principle of separation of
church and state and threatens to undermine the religious tolerance that
characterizes the country, the national director of the Anti-Defamation
League, Abraham Foxman, warned in his address to the League's national
commission, meeting in New York City over the weekend.
"Today we face a better financed, more sophisticated, coordinated, unified,
energized and organized coalition of groups in opposition to our policy
positions on church-state separation than ever before. Their goal is to
implement their Christian worldview. To Christianize America. To save us!"
he said.
Foxman proceeded to describe the process and to name names: "Major players
include Focus On Family. Alliance Defense Fund, the American Family
Association, Family Research Council and more. They and other groups have
established new organizations and church-based networks, and built
infrastructure throughout the country designed to promote traditional
Christian values."
The ADL, considered the largest Jewish organization in America, has in the
past spearheaded campaigns against religious preachers and Christian
elements deemed unusually extreme. But this is the first all-out media
assault by an ADL head on the U.S. Christian establishment.
"In 2002, leaders from 10 conservative Christian organizations formed the
`Arlington Group,' an alliance of over 50 of the most prominent Christian
leaders and organizations. Their Web site documented in considerable
details the agenda of a wide range of issues, including judicial nominees,
stem-cell research, same-sex marriage, abortion restrictions and the
faith-based initiative - and their expectation of success on these issues
[was high] because of their perceived political strength," Foxman said.
He noted that churches and organizations of this sort have always been
active in America, but they had never before been so aggressive and
determined. "They intend to Christianize all aspects of American life, from
the halls of government to the libraries, to the movies, to recording
studios, to the playing fields and locker rooms of professional, collegiate
and amateur sports; from the military to SpongeBob SquarePants," Foxman
charged. "No effort is made to hide their goals or their ambitions, and
their vision of America is far different from ours."
Foxman traced the growing spread of Christian extremism to a crisis in
values among large segments of the American population and a corresponding
yearning for religious content, along with the presence of President George
Bush as an encouraging ally. However, Foxman identified the central cause
as a sense of persecution and the perception that religion, in general, and
Christianity, in particular, are under attack from the liberals in the U.S.
In his speech, Foxman presented the as yet unpublished results of an
opinion poll commissioned by the ADL. The survey found that an overwhelming
75 percent of Americans who attend church once a week believe that religion
is under attack in America. Among evangelicals, that figure rises to 80
percent. Among those who attend church regularly, 70 percent think that
Christianity is particularly threatened; 76 percent of evangelicals agree.
The poll also revealed that 60 percent of church members, and 69 percent of
evangelical favor instituting organized prayer in America's public schools.
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
07 Nov 2005 01:09:11 PM |
|
|
alt.education removed.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Christian right, and Christians in
general whom the Christian right misguides, don't understand that the
United States (federal government) is not founded on so-called
Christian principals or that the 10th Amendment reserved the power to
legislate religion for the States since the 1st Amendment explicitly
prohibited this power only to Congress.
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment, not the outcome-driven Everson
interpretation of the establishment clause, is what protects their
personal federal rights from the Christian right who can reasonably be
expected to get overzealous with the 10th Amendment protected sovereign
powers of the States to legislate religion.
The 1st Amendment prohibits laws that puts tests on free speech,
religious free speech included, such as what classrooms such free
speech is permitted in (deja vu with respect to segregated bussing) or
if that free speech is based on scientific fact. So the only reason
that anti-religious expression separationists have resorted to taking
Christians to Constitution-ignoring, activist judges whenever religious
free speech issues arise is because such judges are willing to
unlawfully legislate such tests from the bench on a case by case basis
in order to unconstitutionally stifle free religious speech. But
consider these words from Jefferson:
"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that
'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and
under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the
press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary
which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky
Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382
The Foxman essay below fails 10th Amendment test.
buckeye=3DELO@nospam.net wrote:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/641831.html
ADL's Foxman warns of efforts to `Christianize America'
By Shlomo Shamir
NEW YORK - Institutionalized Christianity in the U.S. has grown so
extremist that it poses a tangible danger to the principle of separation =
of
church and state and threatens to undermine the religious tolerance that
characterizes the country, the national director of the Anti-Defamation
League, Abraham Foxman, warned in his address to the League's national
commission, meeting in New York City over the weekend.
"Today we face a better financed, more sophisticated, coordinated, unifie=
d,
energized and organized coalition of groups in opposition to our policy
positions on church-state separation than ever before. Their goal is to
implement their Christian worldview. To Christianize America. To save us!"
he said.
Foxman proceeded to describe the process and to name names: "Major players
include Focus On Family. Alliance Defense Fund, the American Family
Association, Family Research Council and more. They and other groups have
established new organizations and church-based networks, and built
infrastructure throughout the country designed to promote traditional
Christian values."
The ADL, considered the largest Jewish organization in America, has in the
past spearheaded campaigns against religious preachers and Christian
elements deemed unusually extreme. But this is the first all-out media
assault by an ADL head on the U.S. Christian establishment.
"In 2002, leaders from 10 conservative Christian organizations formed the
`Arlington Group,' an alliance of over 50 of the most prominent Christian
leaders and organizations. Their Web site documented in considerable
details the agenda of a wide range of issues, including judicial nominees,
stem-cell research, same-sex marriage, abortion restrictions and the
faith-based initiative - and their expectation of success on these issues
[was high] because of their perceived political strength," Foxman said.
He noted that churches and organizations of this sort have always been
active in America, but they had never before been so aggressive and
determined. "They intend to Christianize all aspects of American life, fr=
om
the halls of government to the libraries, to the movies, to recording
studios, to the playing fields and locker rooms of professional, collegia=
te
and amateur sports; from the military to SpongeBob SquarePants," Foxman
charged. "No effort is made to hide their goals or their ambitions, and
their vision of America is far different from ours."
Foxman traced the growing spread of Christian extremism to a crisis in
values among large segments of the American population and a corresponding
yearning for religious content, along with the presence of President Geor=
ge
Bush as an encouraging ally. However, Foxman identified the central cause
as a sense of persecution and the perception that religion, in general, a=
nd
Christianity, in particular, are under attack from the liberals in the U.=
S=2E
In his speech, Foxman presented the as yet unpublished results of an
opinion poll commissioned by the ADL. The survey found that an overwhelmi=
ng
75 percent of Americans who attend church once a week believe that religi=
on
is under attack in America. Among evangelicals, that figure rises to 80
percent. Among those who attend church regularly, 70 percent think that
Christianity is particularly threatened; 76 percent of evangelicals agree.
The poll also revealed that 60 percent of church members, and 69 percent =
of
evangelical favor instituting organized prayer in America's public school=
s=2E
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
07 Nov 2005 04:37:19 PM |
|
|
In article <1131390551.580187.19130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> writes:
alt.education removed.
Why would you do that? I'm sure that Bob and Buckeye would like to play too...
-- cary
As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Christian right, and Christians in
general whom the Christian right misguides, don't understand that the
United States (federal government) is not founded on so-called
Christian principals or that the 10th Amendment reserved the power to
legislate religion for the States since the 1st Amendment explicitly
prohibited this power only to Congress.
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment, not the outcome-driven Everson
interpretation of the establishment clause, is what protects their
personal federal rights from the Christian right who can reasonably be
expected to get overzealous with the 10th Amendment protected sovereign
powers of the States to legislate religion.
The 1st Amendment prohibits laws that puts tests on free speech,
religious free speech included, such as what classrooms such free
speech is permitted in (deja vu with respect to segregated bussing) or
if that free speech is based on scientific fact. So the only reason
that anti-religious expression separationists have resorted to taking
Christians to Constitution-ignoring, activist judges whenever religious
free speech issues arise is because such judges are willing to
unlawfully legislate such tests from the bench on a case by case basis
in order to unconstitutionally stifle free religious speech. But
consider these words from Jefferson:
"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that
'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and
under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the
press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary
which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky
Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382
The Foxman essay below fails 10th Amendment test.
buckeye=3DELO@nospam.net wrote:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/641831.html
ADL's Foxman warns of efforts to `Christianize America'
By Shlomo Shamir
NEW YORK - Institutionalized Christianity in the U.S. has grown so
extremist that it poses a tangible danger to the principle of separation =
of
church and state and threatens to undermine the religious tolerance that
characterizes the country, the national director of the Anti-Defamation
League, Abraham Foxman, warned in his address to the League's national
commission, meeting in New York City over the weekend.
"Today we face a better financed, more sophisticated, coordinated, unifie=
d,
energized and organized coalition of groups in opposition to our policy
positions on church-state separation than ever before. Their goal is to
implement their Christian worldview. To Christianize America. To save us!"
he said.
Foxman proceeded to describe the process and to name names: "Major players
include Focus On Family. Alliance Defense Fund, the American Family
Association, Family Research Council and more. They and other groups have
established new organizations and church-based networks, and built
infrastructure throughout the country designed to promote traditional
Christian values."
The ADL, considered the largest Jewish organization in America, has in the
past spearheaded campaigns against religious preachers and Christian
elements deemed unusually extreme. But this is the first all-out media
assault by an ADL head on the U.S. Christian establishment.
"In 2002, leaders from 10 conservative Christian organizations formed the
`Arlington Group,' an alliance of over 50 of the most prominent Christian
leaders and organizations. Their Web site documented in considerable
details the agenda of a wide range of issues, including judicial nominees,
stem-cell research, same-sex marriage, abortion restrictions and the
faith-based initiative - and their expectation of success on these issues
[was high] because of their perceived political strength," Foxman said.
He noted that churches and organizations of this sort have always been
active in America, but they had never before been so aggressive and
determined. "They intend to Christianize all aspects of American life, fr=
om
the halls of government to the libraries, to the movies, to recording
studios, to the playing fields and locker rooms of professional, collegia=
te
and amateur sports; from the military to SpongeBob SquarePants," Foxman
charged. "No effort is made to hide their goals or their ambitions, and
their vision of America is far different from ours."
Foxman traced the growing spread of Christian extremism to a crisis in
values among large segments of the American population and a corresponding
yearning for religious content, along with the presence of President Geor=
ge
Bush as an encouraging ally. However, Foxman identified the central cause
as a sense of persecution and the perception that religion, in general, a=
nd
Christianity, in particular, are under attack from the liberals in the U.=
S=2E
In his speech, Foxman presented the as yet unpublished results of an
opinion poll commissioned by the ADL. The survey found that an overwhelmi=
ng
75 percent of Americans who attend church once a week believe that religi=
on
is under attack in America. Among evangelicals, that figure rises to 80
percent. Among those who attend church regularly, 70 percent think that
Christianity is particularly threatened; 76 percent of evangelicals agree.
The poll also revealed that 60 percent of church members, and 69 percent =
of
evangelical favor instituting organized prayer in America's public school=
s=2E
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =
"a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=
r,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
08 Nov 2005 11:39:33 AM |
|
|
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
:|In article <1131390551.580187.19130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> writes:
:|
:|> alt.education removed.
:|
:|Why would you do that? I'm sure that Bob and Buckeye would like to play too...
:|
:|-- cary
I don't think he wants us playing. We tend to trash him too often
It would never upset me if he poofed off into the sunset. All he is is a
more persistent troll than most but troll nonetheless. he has nothing of
value to say all his positions have been discredited time and time again
But to get rid of me he has to remove alt.politics.usa.constitution to
since most of my reading and posting is done from there.
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
07 Nov 2005 06:00:24 PM |
|
|
On 7 Nov 2005 11:09:11 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment,
If that's the case, Freddie
Why in ***** are they where they are, and you're making an ***** of
yourself here?
.
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| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
07 Nov 2005 06:18:22 PM |
|
|
wrote:
On 7 Nov 2005 11:09:11 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment,
If that's the case, Freddie
Why in ***** are they where they are, and you're making an ***** of
yourself here?
The American People are "prisoners" of conscious to separationist and
atheist judicial activism concerning scandalous Court interpretations
of the Constitution because they are essentially constitutionally
illiterate.
.
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|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
07 Nov 2005 07:32:36 PM |
|
|
On 7 Nov 2005 16:18:22 -0800, in alt.atheism
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote in
<1131409102.434518.137830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Knickkkers@Hang-up.com wrote:
On 7 Nov 2005 11:09:11 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment,
If that's the case, Freddie
Why in ***** are they where they are, and you're making an ***** of
yourself here?
The American People are "prisoners" of conscious to separationist and
atheist judicial activism concerning scandalous Court interpretations
of the Constitution because they are essentially constitutionally
illiterate.
Nobody understands the Constitution but fred.
Yeah, sure.
.
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|
|
| User: "fred" |
|
| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
08 Nov 2005 11:47:17 AM |
|
|
David Jensen wrote:
On 7 Nov 2005 16:18:22 -0800, in alt.atheism
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote in
<1131409102.434518.137830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Knickkkers@Hang-up.com wrote:
On 7 Nov 2005 11:09:11 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment,
If that's the case, Freddie
Why in ***** are they where they are, and you're making an ***** of
yourself here?
The American People are "prisoners" of conscious to separationist and
atheist judicial activism concerning scandalous Court interpretations
of the Constitution because they are essentially constitutionally
illiterate.
Nobody understands the Constitution but fred.
"Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore,
be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is
not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties which may make anything
mean everything or nothing at pleasure." --Thomas Jefferson to William
Johnson, 1823. ME 15:450
"Common sense [is] the foundation of all authorities, of the laws
themselves, and of their construction." --Thomas Jefferson: Batture at
New Orleans, 1812. ME 18:92
Yeah, sure.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Warns of efforts to `Christianize America'; discussion fails 10th Amendment test |
07 Nov 2005 09:04:37 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:32:36 -0600, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On 7 Nov 2005 16:18:22 -0800, in alt.atheism
"fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote in
<1131409102.434518.137830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Knickkkers@Hang-up.com wrote:
On 7 Nov 2005 11:09:11 -0800, "fred" <clarma1@gmail.com> wrote:
Activist judges, separationists and atheists, on the other hand, don't
understand that the 14th Amendment,
If that's the case, Freddie
Why in ***** are they where they are, and you're making an ***** of
yourself here?
The American People are "prisoners" of conscious to separationist and
atheist judicial activism concerning scandalous Court interpretations
of the Constitution because they are essentially constitutionally
illiterate.
Nobody understands the Constitution but fred.
Yeah, sure.
Dana Raffaniello used to do this identical ***** a few years ago.
Same kind of citations, same long-winded "self-interpretations' (of
the 2nd amendment) and all he did was eventually make himself what I
always claimed he was.
Fred hasn't a clue.
The crap he's spouting is even more crazy than the "federalist
society" stuff.
.
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