| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
29 Feb 2004 02:18:24 PM |
| Object: |
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 10:33:59 PM |
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And boy was THAT a lousy deal!
Paul
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| User: "Son of man" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 03:16:46 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
To understand the victory and gift of Christ, see :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/giftofchrist.htm
To understand the true nature of the Father, see :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/index.htm
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
We already know what Jews believe and the God of Judaism is evil :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/TheWordOfGod_1.htm
.
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| User: "Sajo Markecz" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 04:50:57 PM |
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"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jDs0c.65950$Ve2.15084@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
To understand the victory and gift of Christ, see :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/giftofchrist.htm
To understand the true nature of the Father, see :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/index.htm
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
We already know what Jews believe and the God of Judaism is evil :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/TheWordOfGod_1.htm
The Romans at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ were pagans or
polytheists, and the supreme sky god of the pagan Roman pantheon was
Jupiter, also known as Deus [ Zeus for the pagan or polytheist Greeks ].
When the Romans later began to convert to Christianity, they began to call
the originally supreme God of the Jewish religion, called Yahweh, by the
Latin name of Deus. The Arabs when they converted to Islam, a religion that
grew out of the Prophet Muhammad's interpretation of the Jewish and
Christian religions, called the Hebrew God Yahweh by the Arabic name -
Allah.
The early converts to Christianity included the Jews as well as the pagan or
polytheist inhabitants of the Roman Empire. The Jews who converted to
Christianity in the early centuries of the A.D. era believed that Jesus
Christ when He was on earth was the God Yahweh Himself in the body of a man,
The Word of God made flesh [ see the Gospel of St. John, chapter 1, verses
1 - 5 ], whose coming had been prophesied in the Old Testament. Jesus Christ
Himself told His disciples that someday after His Ascension back into
heaven, that He would one day return again to earth as the Son of Man, or to
use the Greek term, as the Parousia. Although Jesus might have shared the
same genetic material as his earthly father, Joseph, this was not brought
about as the result of sexual reproduction, but as the result of a miracle,
because nothing is impossible with God [ see Mark 10 : 27 ].
Although the pagan Romans forbade the Jews from living within the city walls
of Jerusalem after they crushed a patriotic or nationalistic war of
independence launched by the Jews against their pagan Roman imperial masters
in 135 A.D., the pagan Romans did not forbid the Jews from living within the
other parts of the Roman province of Judea. In the early 300's A.D., the
Romans, now officially converted to Christianity, allowed the Jews to again
live within the city walls of Jerusalem. Many of the Jewish inhabitants of
the province of Judea converted to either Christianity or the Greco - Roman
pagan religion. When the Arab Muslims began to invade the then Christian
Byzantine or East Roman province of Judea from the 630's A.D. onwards, many
of the Christian inhabitants of Judea began to convert to Islam, in order to
avoid the higher poll tax levied on non - Muslims by the Arab Muslims. The
Roman Empire split into an eastern and a western half in 395 A.D., with the
western half collapsing by 476 A.D., and the eastern half collapsing by 1453
A.D. Since the first century A.D., until the reestablishment of the Jewish
state of Israel in 1948, a Jewish minority continued to live in the region
of Galilee.
Jesus Christ did tell His Apostles to preach the Christian Gospel to all the
nations of the world according to Matthew 28 : 18 - 20. But Jesus Christ
also taught in Matthew 7 : 12 and Luke 6 : 31 that we should do to others
what we would want them to do to us. Therefore, Jesus Christ would not have
sanctioned the use of force and violence in converting people to
Christianity.
Martin Luther the German [ born in 1483 and died in 1546 ], published in
1543 an essay called "On the Jews and Their Lies ," in which Luther urged
that Jewish synagogues be burnt, because most of the Jews refused to convert
to Christianity on a large scale, which Martin Luther hoped would be a sign
of the return of Jesus Christ in the near future. This essay, as also the
other printed and published essays of Martin Luther, were often reprinted,
studied, taught, and preached in Germany, at least before Germany's final
defeat in the Second World War in 1945. In 1938, in Nazi Germany, on
Kristallnacht [ Crystalnight, or The Night of Broken Glass ], many Jewish
synagogues were burnt, as Martin Luther had urged in his often reprinted and
preached 1543 essay called "On the Jews and Their Lies." This essay was
often preached by most German Lutheran pastors, with a few exceptions, until
May 8, 1945. After the German federal election of the 5th of March, 1933,
Alfred von Hugenberg, the leader of the mainly Lutheran laypersons' [ non -
pastors ] "German National Peoples' Party," formed a coalition with the
Nazis, in order to outvote the Communists and Social Democrats. By Lutheran
laypersons' or non - pastors, we should remember that Martin Luther called
Christians "the priesthood of believers." The Nazis gained about 44% of the
seats in the lower house of the German federal parliament, the Reichstag, in
the German federal election of the 5th of March, 1933. On the 14th of July,
1933, all political parties except the Nazi Party were prohibited in Nazi
Germany. However, Alfred von Hugenberg, who died in 1951, and who was the
leader of the mainly Lutheran laypersons' "German National Peoples' Party,"
continued to be a member of the German Reichstag until 1945, even when all
political parties except the Nazi Party were banned in Germany after the
14th of July, 1933.
From 1929 - 1933, the Nazis gained the largest votes in German state
elections where the Lutherans formed the majority of the states' population.
Between 1929 - 1933, these following German states, all of them with a
mainly Lutheran population, had state governments where the Nazis were
either coalition leaders or partners : Braunschweig [ Brunswick in
English ], Mecklenburg, Mecklenburg - Strelitz, Lubeck, Thuringia, Saxony -
Anhalt, Harzburg, Oldenburg, and Lippe. Only the German state of Schleswig -
Holstein, another mainly Lutheran state, had a state legislature between
1929 - 1933 where the Nazis had a majority of the seats in that state
legislature. Schleswig - Holstein had been taken from Denmark by Germany in
a war that had broken out in 1864 and again in 1866, although in 1920 the
northern third of Schleswig was returned to Denmark after a League of
Nations sponsored referendum had been held on the issue as one of the terms
of the Versailles Peace Treaty with Germany. The Nazis gained their lowest
votes in the rural and mainly Catholic areas of southern Bavaria, while they
gained more votes in the northern parts of Bavaria ,also known as Franconia,
an area of Germany that has a mixed Catholic and Lutheran population. Most
of the Catholics of Germany live in the southern, south-eastern, and western
parts of Germany.
Here are some of the writings of Martin Luther on how to deal with the Jews
of Germany:
When Martin Luther was asked whether it is morally justifiable to box the
ears of a Jew, he said "certainly. I for one would smack him on the jaw.
Were I able, I would knock him down and stab him in my anger. It is lawful,
according to both the human and the divine law, to kill a robber; then it is
even more permissible to slay a blasphemer".
"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang
a stone round his neck and push him over with the words ' I baptise thee in
the name of Abraham' ".
"We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them".
"The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary
thieves".
"Set fire to their synagogues and schools; and what will not burn, heap
earth over it so that no man may see a stone or relic of them forever".
Pages 50 - 51 in
"http://www.tentmaker.org/books/MartinLuther-HitlersSpiritualAncestor.html",
Martin Luther ~ Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor, by Peter F. Wiener, Author of
German For the Scientist, and German With Tears, Hutchinson & Co. (
Publishers ) Ltd. London : New York : Melbourne : Sydney. The work was put
into electronic format by Patsy Jackson for Tentmaker Publications - 118
Walnut - Hermann, Missouri, 65041, U.S.A.
See also Who voted for the Nazis?(electoral history of the National
Socialist German Workers Party), by ***** Geary, Professor of Modern History
at the University of Nottingham and the author of Hitler and Nazism (
Routledge 1993 ), in History Today, October 1998, in association with The
Gale Group and LookSmart, 2000,
"http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1373/n10_v48/21207858/print.jhtml"
One of the reasons why Germany, out of all the other nations, had the Nazis
come to power during the economic Great Depression of 1929 - 1939, was
because Germany lacked a strong democratic tradition. Between 1850 - 1919,
the German state of Brandenburg - Prussia had a three class electoral law,
although the state of Bavaria had introduced universal adult male suffrage
in 1904, followed by Baden - Wurttemberg [ formerly Swabia ], in 1906 . The
German state governments nominated the members of the German federal upper
house, the Bundesrat, which, along with the German Chancellor and Kaiser,
had final veto powers over the German federal lower house, the Bundestag.
The German Catholics are found mostly in the southern, south-eastern, and
western parts of Germany, and in March 1938 German-speaking Austria was
"forcibly" annexed by Nazi Germany.
Martin Luther the German [ born in 1483 and died in 1546 ], basing his views
on St. Paul's epistle to the Romans ch. 13 : 1 - 7, urged that the German
peasant revolt of 1525 be brutally suppressed by the German knights, in his
1525 printed and published essay called "Against the Thieving and Murdering
Hordes of Peasants." St. Paul the Apostle wrote in his epistle to the
Romans, chapter 13 : 1 - 7, that all authorities who wield the sword are
appointed by God to enforce the law. The word "authorities" is a plural word
however. In the U.S.A., the adult male citizen voters, who have the
constitutional authority to elect their politicians, also have the
constitutional authority under the Second Bill of Rights to bear arms as
members of a well regulated state militia, for example, the U.S. National
Guard, which the U.S. Supreme Court interpreted as being a safeguard
intended by the American law makers of the 1780's to protect the states from
any likelihood that the U.S. federal government would become dictatorial,
although the state, county, and municipal governments are just as likely to
become dictatorial, as the southern U.S. states often treated their black,
or very dark brown minorities, in a dictatorial manner. However, I still
believe that rioters should be dispersed by firing rubber-coated metal
bullets into their legs, stomachs, and chests, with the use of scopes for
accurate aiming and semi-automatic rifles to control the rate of fire. The
safety of the riot police comes before the safety of rioters, because
peaceful and legal protesters lose many civil rights when they decide to
become violent rioters and cowardly mob tyrants.
Martin Luther's views on predestination and God's foreknowledge are set out
in his 1525 published essay called "On the Bondage of the Will." Although
free will exists according to 1 Timothy 2 : 1 - 4 and 2 Peter 3 : 9, since
these two references from the New Testament says that God wants everyone to
be saved, God, who is eternal, with no beginning and no end, and who is all
knowing, knows what choices people will make in the future [ see the Acts of
the Apostles 15 : 18 ]. God is not the author of evil, but Satan, the fallen
angel, is. Personally, I have up to a certain extent great admiration for
Girolamo Savonarola [ 1452 - 1498 ] and Cornelius Otto Jansen [ 1585 -
1638 ]. From faith and the gift of God's grace, good works flow [ see
Ephesians 2 : 8 - 10 by St. Paul the Apostle ]. Repenting out of fear or
attrition is acceptable according to Proverbs 13 : 13, Proverbs 14 : 26 - 2,
and Proverbs 19 : 23, but repenting out of contrition or genuine sorrow is
even better.
Most of the Japanese are Mahayana Buddhists and Shintoists at the same time.
The Mahayana Buddhists are the Protestants of Buddhism, as opposed to the
Theravada Buddhists, who are the Catholics of Buddhism. The Mahayana
Buddhists believe that members of the Buddhist laity, as well as members of
the Buddhist monkhood, can achieve nirvana more quickly. The Mahayana
Buddhists also tend to place greater emphasis on the sincerity of a
believer's faith, the relationship between motives and methods, and the role
of divine grace, then Theravada Buddhists do.
In 1925 universal adult male suffrage or voting rights was introduced for
national elections for the first time in the history of Japan, although by
1941 Japan had become a one-party state military dictatorship.
Since 1911, the martial art of judo, which traces its ancestry to the
samurai martial art of jujitsu, has been a compulsory subject in Japanese
schools for students above the age of 8 years, although it was banned as a
compulsory subject in Japanese schools from 1945 - 1951, after which it was
again reintroduced as a compulsory school subject from the age of 8 years
and upwards. After 1945, the requirement of all able-bodied Japanese males
over the age of 21 to do three years of compulsory military service was
abolished , although the martial arts still figure prominently in the
training of the members of Japan's voluntary Self - Defense Forces and
police force to this day. The three techniques of judo are nagewaza [
throwing ], katamewaza [ wrestling ], and atemiwaza [ punching and
kicking ]. Atemiwaza may only be taught to judokas above the rank of white
belt, and may only be used by them in training and self - defense, but never
in judo sporting contests. Katamewaza may only be used in judo sporting
contests by judokas who are at least above the age of 13. During the Second
World War, when low on bullets and food, the Japanese soldiers would often
launch a banzai bayonet charge and judo - atemiwaza attack, preferring a
heroic death to humiliating surrender.
Heinrich Himmler, the leader of the German Nazi Gestapo, who looked a bit
like Emperor Hirohito, the somewhat puppet of Premier Hideki Tojo of Japan,
the 20th Century Japanese Shogun and Temujin or Genghis Khan of Asia, once
ridiculously tried to prove that the Japanese are undercover Aryans, since
the Japanese racially mixed with the indigenous peoples of the Japanese Home
Islands, the Ainu, who once had some Caucasian - like physical features, and
that the Japanese were really Germans who physically and linguistically
separated from the Germans of the European part of the Eurasian Continent
many thousands of years ago, genetically mutating in the process in order to
adapt to their new Asian environment. Today, there are few or no Ainu
without some Japanese ancestry. The Ainu are the distant cousins of the
Eastern Finns, who arrived in Japan from northern Russia and Siberia. The
Japanese themselves are a mixture of Altaic people [ speakers of the closely
related Korean, Manchurian, Tungus, Inner Mongolian [ Chinese province ] ,
and Outer Mongolian [ Occupied by the Russian military from 1916 - 1991 ]
languages, and the Malay people ,including the Indonesians and Filipinos.
The southern Chinese, Taiwanese Chinese, and Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodian
and Thai languages show a heavy Malay substratum, a result of racial mixing
between indigenous or earlier arrived people and foreign invaders .
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 03:23:03 PM |
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"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jDs0c.65950$Ve2.15084@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
If you could go back in time and successfully rescue Jesus from the
crucifixion, would you do it?
The answer to that question should shed some light on who understands what.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 03:18:05 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
To understand the victory and gift of Christ, see :
Why? IT'S MERELY THE FAIRY TALES FROM YOUR IRRELEVANT RELIGION.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/giftofchrist.htm
To understand the true nature of the Father, see :
What "true nature", moron?
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/index.htm
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
We already know what Jews believe and the God of Judaism is evil :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/TheWordOfGod_1.htm
.
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 06:36:31 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
Why do you believe Truth Hunter wants to "teach".
He is a troll that likes starting arguments.
Wake up Brian.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Son of man" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 09:14:55 PM |
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"Mark Richardson" <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:3g154053f6b0fq1jupj39brkgvbo5lri0l@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
Why do you believe Truth Hunter wants to "teach".
He is a troll that likes starting arguments.
Wake up Brian.
And who might this Brian be?
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 10:18:30 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:14:55 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Mark Richardson" <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:3g154053f6b0fq1jupj39brkgvbo5lri0l@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
Why do you believe Truth Hunter wants to "teach".
He is a troll that likes starting arguments.
Wake up Brian.
And who might this Brian be?
Not the Messiah!
Bernard .... sorry.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 10:13:54 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:14:55 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Mark Richardson" <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:3g154053f6b0fq1jupj39brkgvbo5lri0l@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
Why do you believe Truth Hunter wants to "teach".
He is a troll that likes starting arguments.
Wake up Brian.
And who might this Brian be?
Not the Messiah.
(I thought you were Brian Cozier - if not forget it.)
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Son of man" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 11:17:33 PM |
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"Mark Richardson" <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:t7e5401l0hecqhcr1uetmsom5mtnban52k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:14:55 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Mark Richardson" <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> wrote in message
news:3g154053f6b0fq1jupj39brkgvbo5lri0l@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0500, "Son of man"
<bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com...
Why do you attempt to teach what you don't understand?
Why do you believe Truth Hunter wants to "teach".
He is a troll that likes starting arguments.
Wake up Brian.
And who might this Brian be?
Not the Messiah.
(I thought you were Brian Cozier - if not forget it.)
I'm not Brian Cozier.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 03:34:08 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Son of man:
We already know what Jews believe and the God of Judaism is evil :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/TheWordOfGod_1.htm
In other words, you're right and they're wrong. Why?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 11:09:18 PM |
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In article <e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com>, Truth
Hunter <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
Salvation from *what*? Way I understand it, the story goes like this:
this "god" of yours set in train a chain of events. He knew in
excruciating detail each and every minute detail from start to stop,
thus knowing his creation was flawed. To punish his flawed creation, he
created a place of torture, where they could be punished for the evil
of being just the way he created them to be. At some point along the
line, he then decided to split part of himself off, have that portion
live life as a human for what was for them a goodly life-span (+/- 30
years) but was less than an eye-blink for him (any amount of time vs
infinity). Then, by having this portion of himself nailed to a tree, he
could save his flawed creations from what? Himself.
To make the short form even shorter, he had a sock puppet suffer for an
infitesimal amount of time to appease himself for the flaws in his
creations. Pretty kinky.
--
....and in elder days there were wars in the Heavens between the Ibemmeraphim
and the Angels of the Apple of Knowledge...
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeff" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
01 Mar 2004 10:09:46 AM |
|
|
"William Klee" <fnord2k@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:290220042309181661%fnord2k@yahoo.com...
In article <e164e783.0402291218.53e4aae4@posting.google.com>, Truth
Hunter <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
Salvation from *what*? Way I understand it, the story goes like this:
this "god" of yours set in train a chain of events. He knew in
excruciating detail each and every minute detail from start to stop,
thus knowing his creation was flawed. To punish his flawed creation, he
created a place of torture, where they could be punished for the evil
of being just the way he created them to be. At some point along the
line, he then decided to split part of himself off, have that portion
live life as a human for what was for them a goodly life-span (+/- 30
years) but was less than an eye-blink for him (any amount of time vs
infinity). Then, by having this portion of himself nailed to a tree, he
could save his flawed creations from what? Himself.
Supposed a parent were to place much cake and candy on the dinner table
along with healthy food during each meal. The parent tells his children the
benefits of eating the good food and the ill health effects of eating the
cake and candy. The parent, however allows the children to make their own
choice on what to eat. Now who is at fault, when, at age 40, the grown
children are overweight, have clogged arteries, diabetes and a host of other
diseases.
To make the short form even shorter, he had a sock puppet suffer for an
infitesimal amount of time to appease himself for the flaws in his
creations. Pretty kinky.
--
...and in elder days there were wars in the Heavens between the
Ibemmeraphim
and the Angels of the Apple of Knowledge...
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Silver Blaze" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
29 Feb 2004 03:23:52 PM |
|
|
It has always puzzled me that such a paradox exists in Christianity
whereby Jesus as he is portrayed is a simple, straight-forward human
sacrifice carried out to appease a God
Expressly FORBIDDEN in the Old Testament
And therefore clearly a fictional addition drawn from paganism - after
Jeuses execution by the Romans for sedition
It amazes me that THAT alone does not make people recognise that Pauls
Salvation theology - and its Johannine Pauline descendant theology that
still rules Protestantism as much as it rules Catholicism and Eastern
Orthodoxy - is hopelessly WRONG and has been a misrepresentation for two
millenia of Jesus of Nazareth
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
01 Mar 2004 04:41:00 AM |
|
|
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth Hunter) wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
Welcome To What Jews Believe
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
01 Mar 2004 04:41:56 AM |
|
|
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth Hunter) wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing here worth
responding to.
.
|
|
|
| User: "• R.L. Measures" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
01 Mar 2004 08:19:41 AM |
|
|
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth Hunter) wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing here worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what then?
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
|
|
|
| User: "TKelly" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
01 Mar 2004 04:22:44 PM |
|
|
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth Hunter) wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing here worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what then?
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them. Had this not
occured then this would have met that there was a significant change
in humans.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
01 Mar 2004 04:38:29 PM |
|
|
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter entered into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first place.
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them. Had this not
occured then this would have met that there was a significant change
in humans.
.
|
|
|
| User: "TKelly" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
02 Mar 2004 10:03:20 PM |
|
|
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter entered into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to die?
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them. Had this not
occured then this would have met that there was a significant change
in humans.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
02 Mar 2004 10:15:00 PM |
|
|
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403022003.663fdbbd@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth
Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by
the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without
shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous
requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but
somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the
father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing
here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what
then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter entered
into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to die?
First of all why do you call Jesus God when Jesus clearly said he does the
will of his Father, and his Father is greater than he is, and that he is the
Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). His saying "Who has seen me has
seen the Father" implies only that he is he likeness of the Father. His
saying "I and the Father are one" only implies unity with the Father even as
the hand is in unity with the brain but it does not mean the hand is the
brain. Also you should note the Father posesses more knowledge than Jesus
the Son --
Mark:13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels
which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So why do you call Jesus God when Jesus says he is the Son (Mark:14:61-62)
and admits he does not have all knowledge of the Father? (Mark:13:32 above).
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them. Had this not
occured then this would have met that there was a significant change
in humans.
.
|
|
|
| User: "TKelly" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
03 Mar 2004 06:17:12 AM |
|
|
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<JXc1c.3563$JN2.1362@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403022003.663fdbbd@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth
Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally decreed by
the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without
shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous
requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but
somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from the
father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's nothing
here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what
then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter entered
into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to die?
First of all why do you call Jesus God
If you believe in a Trinity Jesus was/is fully God and fully man
therefore different words are discribing different aspects and or
actions.
when Jesus clearly said he does the
will of his Father, and his Father is greater than he is, and that he is the
Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). His saying "Who has seen me has
seen the Father" implies only that he is he likeness of the Father. His
saying "I and the Father are one" only implies unity with the Father even as
the hand is in unity with the brain but it does not mean the hand is the
brain. Also you should note the Father posesses more knowledge than Jesus
the Son --
You appear to either not be Trinitarian in the classic and ancient
manner or trying to define something that can't be defined well in
words. This is interesting however it is a secondary discussion. Could
you please respond to my previous question?
Mark:13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels
which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So why do you call Jesus God when Jesus says he is the Son (Mark:14:61-62)
and admits he does not have all knowledge of the Father? (Mark:13:32 above).
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them. Had this not
occured then this would have met that there was a significant change
in humans.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
03 Mar 2004 11:41:02 AM |
|
|
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403030417.34ce6afc@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<JXc1c.3563$JN2.1362@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403022003.663fdbbd@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth
Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally
decreed by
the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without
shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous
requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but
somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from
the
father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's
nothing
here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what
then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter entered
into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to
die?
First of all why do you call Jesus God
If you believe in a Trinity Jesus was/is fully God and fully man
therefore different words are discribing different aspects and or
actions.
when Jesus clearly said he does the
will of his Father, and his Father is greater than he is, and that he is
the
Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). His saying "Who has seen me has
seen the Father" implies only that he is he likeness of the Father. His
saying "I and the Father are one" only implies unity with the Father
even as
the hand is in unity with the brain but it does not mean the hand is the
brain. Also you should note the Father posesses more knowledge than
Jesus
the Son --
You appear to either not be Trinitarian
It ain't me, friend, it's what Jesus says! You appear to not be a beliver in
what Jesus himself said and are making up ridiculous claims about him being
God when he never said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is
greater than he is, and also has knowledge which he does not -- therefore
Jesus never claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false doctrines
about Jesus.
Mark:13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels
which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So why do you call Jesus God when Jesus says he is the Son
(Mark:14:61-62)
and admits he does not have all knowledge of the Father? (Mark:13:32
above).
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them.
His dying has nothing to do with his not knowing everything the Father does,
nor does his dying have anything to do with the fact that he said the Father
is greater than he is, yet you want to mislead others by saying Jesus is
God!
.
|
|
|
| User: "TKelly" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
03 Mar 2004 07:38:16 PM |
|
|
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<7Lo1c.3868$rB4.3181@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403030417.34ce6afc@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<JXc1c.3563$JN2.1362@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403022003.663fdbbd@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800, (Truth
Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally
decreed by
the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial law."without
shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous
requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job but
somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us from
the
father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's
nothing
here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age, what
then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter entered
into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to
die?
First of all why do you call Jesus God
If you believe in a Trinity Jesus was/is fully God and fully man
therefore different words are discribing different aspects and or
actions.
when Jesus clearly said he does the
will of his Father, and his Father is greater than he is, and that he is
the
Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). His saying "Who has seen me has
seen the Father" implies only that he is he likeness of the Father. His
saying "I and the Father are one" only implies unity with the Father
even as
the hand is in unity with the brain but it does not mean the hand is the
brain. Also you should note the Father posesses more knowledge than
Jesus
the Son --
You appear to either not be Trinitarian
It ain't me, friend, it's what Jesus says! You appear to not be a beliver in
what Jesus himself said and are making up ridiculous claims about him being
God when he never said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is
greater than he is, and also has knowledge which he does not -- therefore
Jesus never claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false doctrines
about Jesus.
For clarification I am not an American, nor a Christian however I am
seriously exploring Christianity.You did not respond to the question.
It is not useful to be accusatory or to attempt to be denigrating.
Please lets serious look at what is being stated. You wrote:
"... making up ridiculous claims about him being God when he never
said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is greater than he
is, and also has knowledge which he does not -- therefore Jesus never
claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false doctrines about
Jesus."
From this I assume then that you are a "polythestic Christian"
believeing in multiple gods. Is this correct?
Mark:13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels
which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So why do you call Jesus God when Jesus says he is the Son
(Mark:14:61-62)
and admits he does not have all knowledge of the Father? (Mark:13:32
above).
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them.
His dying has nothing to do with his not knowing everything the Father does,
nor does his dying have anything to do with the fact that he said the Father
is greater than he is, yet you want to mislead others by saying Jesus is
God!
I am sorry but you are making an assumption why do you believe I wish
to mislead others becasue I ask question about what you have posted?
Do you know my heart?
His dying has nothing to do with his not knowing everything the Father does,
nor does his dying have anything to do with the fact that he said the Father
is greater than he is, yet you want to mislead others by saying Jesus is
God!
I am sorry in some way I must be unclear as you have again assumed
that my motivation in posting here is to mislead others.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Son of man" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
04 Mar 2004 12:43:51 PM |
|
|
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403031738.6f1fe59a@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<7Lo1c.3868$rB4.3181@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403030417.34ce6afc@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<JXc1c.3563$JN2.1362@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403022003.663fdbbd@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>,
duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800,
(Truth
Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally
decreed by
the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial
law."without
shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal
life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous
requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job
but
somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us
from
the
father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's
nothing
here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age,
what
then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter
entered
into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first
place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to
die?
First of all why do you call Jesus God
If you believe in a Trinity Jesus was/is fully God and fully man
therefore different words are discribing different aspects and or
actions.
when Jesus clearly said he does the
will of his Father, and his Father is greater than he is, and that
he is
the
Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). His saying "Who has seen me
has
seen the Father" implies only that he is he likeness of the Father.
His
saying "I and the Father are one" only implies unity with the Father
even as
the hand is in unity with the brain but it does not mean the hand is
the
brain. Also you should note the Father posesses more knowledge than
Jesus
the Son --
You appear to either not be Trinitarian
It ain't me, friend, it's what Jesus says! You appear to not be a
beliver in
what Jesus himself said and are making up ridiculous claims about him
being
God when he never said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is
greater than he is, and also has knowledge which he does not --
therefore
Jesus never claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false
doctrines
about Jesus.
For clarification I am not an American, nor a Christian however I am
seriously exploring Christianity.You did not respond to the question.
Liar!
It is not useful to be accusatory or to attempt to be denigrating.
Jesus called the Jewish preists of his time who lied to his face hypocrites!
It's not a matter of name calling or being accusatory or being denigrating,
it's a matter of telling the truth.
Please lets serious look at what is being stated. You wrote:
"... making up ridiculous claims about him being God when he never
said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is greater than he
is, and also has knowledge which he does not -- therefore Jesus never
claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false doctrines about
Jesus."
From this I assume then that you are a "polythestic Christian"
believeing in multiple gods. Is this correct?
Not correct. The concept of God was a concept that the Jews believed in.
Jesus knew of his Spiritual Father who is greater than all, whom the Jews
did not know :
John:7:28: Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know
me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent
me is true, whom ye know not.
In addition, Jesus related to the Jews that it is his Father whom THEY SAY
is their God, because they believed of "God" to be the Highest and that
Jesus knows of his Father :
John:10:29: *My Father*, which gave them me, *is greater than all*; and no
man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John:8:54: Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: *it is
my Father* that honoureth me; of *whom ye say*, that *he is your God*:
Also, on the only two occasions when Jesus was asked if he is the Son of
God, again he responds similarly -- that's what YOU SAY :
Luke:22:70: Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said
unto them, *Ye say* that I am.
Matt:26;63: But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said
unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be
the Christ, the Son of God.
64: Jesus saith unto him, *Thou hast said*: *nevertheless I say* unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the *Son of man* sitting on the right hand of power,
and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Moreover, Jesus was directly opposed to many of the teachings of the Old
Testament God of Isreal :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/TheWordOfGod_1.htm
Therefore my belief in "God" goes only so far as the definition "The
unsurpassed wisdom and compassion." And I certainly see no wisdom nor
compassion in the Old Testament's self-professed "God" of Israel. See for
yourself the evil perpetrated at his command and how Jesus directly opposed
his teachings at the above link.
Mark:13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not
the
angels
which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
So why do you call Jesus God when Jesus says he is the Son
(Mark:14:61-62)
and admits he does not have all knowledge of the Father? (Mark:13:32
above).
This is an interesting point and one I have wondered about. I
have
been told that rather than He had to die that it was the
natural
result of His life among humans and challenge to them.
His dying has nothing to do with his not knowing everything the Father
does,
nor does his dying have anything to do with the fact that he said the
Father
is greater than he is, yet you want to mislead others by saying Jesus is
God!
I am sorry but you are making an assumption why do you believe I wish
to mislead others becasue I ask question about what you have posted?
Do you know my heart?
His dying has nothing to do with his not knowing everything the Father
does,
nor does his dying have anything to do with the fact that he said the
Father
is greater than he is, yet you want to mislead others by saying Jesus is
God!
I am sorry in some way I must be unclear as you have again assumed
that my motivation in posting here is to mislead others.
.
|
|
|
| User: "TKelly" |
|
| Title: Re: We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation |
04 Mar 2004 05:58:38 PM |
|
|
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<gIK1c.25050$6e7.17333@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403031738.6f1fe59a@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<7Lo1c.3868$rB4.3181@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403030417.34ce6afc@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<JXc1c.3563$JN2.1362@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403022003.663fdbbd@posting.google.com...
"Son of man" <bcozier@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<bWO0c.135$JN2.45@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
"TKelly" <stopit588@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99be5ff.0403011422.11a65bb1@posting.google.com...
+r@somis.org (? R.L. Measures) wrote in message
news:<+r-0103040619410001@192.168.1.101>...
In article <dq46401981kijo0d3t41pss0js3kej7632@4ax.com>,
duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 29 Feb 2004 12:18:24 -0800,
(Truth
Hunter)
wrote:
We human had to kill Jesus for our salvation
The sinless innocent baby lamb must die that literally
decreed by
the
father God must be fulfill the OT's sacrificial
law."without
shedding
innocent of blood there is no forgiveness nor eternal
life"
Jesus Christ died and satisfied father God's righteous
requirement.
It wasn't evil for us to crucify Jesus,It's a dirty job
but
somebody
had to do it. Someone's got to protect the rest of us
from
the
father
God's demand.
th, you're really scraping the bottom now, bro. There's
nothing
here
worth
responding to.
** He/she makes a valid point. Had Jesus died of old-age,
what
then?
If Jesus would not have suffered on the cross and thereafter
entered
into
his Father's glory, he would not have been born in the first
place.
This is unclear to me. Was God's purpose in being here as Jesus to
die?
First of all why do you call Jesus God
If you believe in a Trinity Jesus was/is fully God and fully man
therefore different words are discribing different aspects and or
actions.
when Jesus clearly said he does the
will of his Father, and his Father is greater than he is, and that
he is
the
Son of the Blessed One (Mark:14:61-62). His saying "Who has seen me
has
seen the Father" implies only that he is he likeness of the Father.
His
saying "I and the Father are one" only implies unity with the Father
even as
the hand is in unity with the brain but it does not mean the hand is
the
brain. Also you should note the Father posesses more knowledge than
Jesus
the Son --
You appear to either not be Trinitarian
It ain't me, friend, it's what Jesus says! You appear to not be a
beliver in
what Jesus himself said and are making up ridiculous claims about him
being
God when he never said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is
greater than he is, and also has knowledge which he does not --
therefore
Jesus never claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false
doctrines
about Jesus.
For clarification I am not an American, nor a Christian however I am
seriously exploring Christianity.You did not respond to the question.
Liar!
Please be more specific.
It is not useful to be accusatory or to attempt to be denigrating.
Jesus called the Jewish preists of his time who lied to his face hypocrites!
It's not a matter of name calling or being accusatory or being denigrating,
it's a matter of telling the truth.
I went to your web page and found it very confusing. Jesus was filled
with compassion and humility these are important.
Please lets serious look at what is being stated. You wrote:
"... making up ridiculous claims about him being God when he never
said so but he said that the Father whom he serves is greater than he
is, and also has knowledge which he does not -- therefore Jesus never
claimed he was God. It is you who are inventing false doctrines about
Jesus."
From this I assume then that you are a "polythestic Christian"
believeing in multiple gods. Is this correct?
Not correct. The concept of God was a concept that the Jews believed in.
Jesus knew of his Spiritual Father who is greater than all, whom the Jews
did not know :
John:7:28: Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know
me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent
me is true, whom ye know not.
In addition, Jesus related to the Jews that it is his Father whom THEY SAY
is their God, because they believed of "God" to be the Highest and that
Jesus knows of his Father :
John:10:29: *My Father*, which gave them me, *is greater than all*; and no
man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John:8:54: Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: *it is
my Father* that honoureth me; of *whom ye say*, that *he is your God*:
Also, on the only two occasions when Jesus was asked if he is the Son of
God, again he responds similarly -- that's what YOU SAY :
Luke:22:70: Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said
unto them, *Ye say* that I am.
Matt:26;63: But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said
unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be
the Christ, the Son of God.
64: Jesus saith unto him, *Thou hast said*: *nevertheless I say* unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the *Son of man* sitting on the right hand of power,
and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Moreover, Jesus was directly opposed to many of the teachings of the Old
Testament God of Isreal :
http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/h/christ-son-of-buddha/TheWordOfGod_1.htm
Therefore my belief in "God" goes only so far as the definition "The
unsurpassed wisdom and compassion." And I certainly see no wisdom nor
compassion in the Old Testament's self-professed "God" of Israel. See for
yourself the evil perpetrated at his command and how Jesus directly opposed
his teachings at the above link.
I am curious how and where you gained your knowledge of Buddhism and
of what lineage?
Perhaps you are familiar with Thich Nhat Hahn.
Two areas are
- On Anger which he writes:
"When you are angry, you want to ease your suffering. That is a
natural tendency. There are many ways to find relief, but the
greatest relief comes from understanding. When understanding is
there, anger will go away by itself. When you understand the
situation of the other person, when you understand the nature of
suffering, anger has to vanish, because it will be transformed by
compassion.
Looking deeply is the medicine most recommended for anger. If you
look, you will understand the other's difficulties and their deepest
aspiration that they have never been able to realize. Then compassion
is born in you and compassion is the antidote for anger. If you allow
compassion to spring from your heart, the fire of anger will die right
away.
Most of our suffering is born from our lack of understanding and
insight that there is no separate self. The other person is you, you
are the other person. If you get in touch with that truth, anger will
vanish.
Compassion is a beautiful flower born of understanding. So when you
get angry with someone, practice breathing in and out mindfully. Look
deeply into the situation to see the true nature of your own and the
other person's suffering, and you will be liberated." From Anger:
Wisdom for Cooling the Flames, pp 114-5
and the the 14 Minfulness Trainings note the first few
"1. The First Mindfulness Training: Openness
Aware of the suffering created by fanaticism and intolerance, we are
determined not to be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine,
theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist teachings are
guiding means to help us learn to look deeply and to develop our
understanding and compassion. They are not doctrines to fight, kill,
or die for.
2. The Second Mindfulness Training: Nonattachment from Views
Aware of the suffering created by attachment to views and wrong
perceptions, we are determined to avoid being narrow-minded and bound
to present views. We shall learn and practice nonattachment from views
in order to be open to others' insights and experiences. We are aware
that the knowledge we presently possess is not changeless, absolute
truth. Truth is found in life, and we will observe life within and
around us in every moment, ready to learn throughout our lives.
3. The Third Mindfulness Training: Freedom of Thought
Aware of the suffering brought about when we impose our views on
others, we are committed not to force others, even our children, by
any means whatsoever - such as authority, threat, money, propaganda,
or indoctrination - to adopt our views. We will respect the right of
others to be different and to choose what to believe and how to
decide. We will, however, help others renounce fanaticism and
narrowness through practicing deeply and engaging in compassionate
dialogue.
4. The Fourth Mindfulness Training: Awareness of Suffering
Aware that looking deeply at the nature of suffering can help us
develop compassion and find ways out of suffering, we are determined
not to avoid or close our eyes before suffering. We are committed to
finding ways, including personal contact, images, and sounds, to be
with those who suffer, so we can understand their situation deeply and
help them transform their suffering into compassion, peace, and joy.
5. The Fifth Mindfulness Training: Simple, Healthy Living
Aware that true happiness is rooted in peace, solidity, freedom, and
compassion, and not in wealth or fame, we are determined not to take
as the aim of our life fame, profit, wealth, or sensual pleasure, nor
to accumulate wealth while millions are hungry and dying. We are
committed to living simply and sharing our time, energy, and material
resources with those in need. We will practice mindful consuming, not
using alcohol, drugs, or any other products that bring toxins into our
own and the collective body and consciousness.
6. The Sixth Mindfulness Training: Dealing with Anger
Aware that anger blocks communication and creates suffering, we are
determined to take care of the energy of anger when it arises and to
recognize and transform the seeds of anger that lie deep in our
consciousness. When anger comes up, we are determined not to do or say
anything, but to practice mindful breathing or mindful walking and
acknowledge, embrace, and look deeply into our anger. We will learn to
look with the eyes of compassion at ourselves and at those we think
are the cause of our anger.
7. The Seventh Mindfulness Training: Dwelling Happily in the Present
Moment
Aware that life is available only in the present moment and that it is
possible to live happily in the here and now, we are committed to
training ourselves to live deeply each moment of daily life. We will
try not to lose ourselves in dispersion or be carried away by regrets
about the past, worries about the future, or craving, anger, or
jealousy in the present. We will practice mindful breathing to come
back to what is happening in the present moment. We are determined to
learn the art of mindful living by touching the wondrous, refreshing,
and healing elements that are inside and around us, and by nourishing
seeds of joy, peace, love, and understanding in ourselves, thus
facilitating the work of transformation and healing in our
consciousness.
8. The Eighth Mindfulness Training: Community and Communication
Aware that lack of communication always brings separation and
suffering, we are committed to training ourselves in the practice of
compassionate listening and loving speech. We will learn to listen
deeply without judging or reacting and refrain from uttering words
that can create discord or cause the community to break. We will make
every effort to keep communications open and to reconcile and resolve
all conflicts, however small.
9. The Ninth Mindfulness Training: Truthful and Loving Speech
Aware that words can create suffering or happiness, we are committed
to learning to speak truthfully and constructively, using only words
that inspire hope and confidence. We are determined not to say
untruthful things for the sake of personal interest or to impress
people, nor to utter words that might cause division or hatred. We
will not spread news that we do not know to be certain nor criticize
or condemn things of which we are not sure. We will do our best to
speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may
threaten our safety.
10. The Tenth Mindfulness Training: Protecting the Sangha
Aware that the essence and aim of a Sangha is the practice of
understanding and compassion, we are determined not to use the
Buddhist community for personal gain or profit or transform our
community into a political instrument. A spiritual community should,
however, take a clear stand against oppression and injustice and
should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan
conflicts.
11. The Eleventh Mindfulness Training: Right Livelihood
Aware that great violence and injustice have been done to our
environment and society, we are committed not to live with a vocation
that is harmful to humans and nature. We will do our best to select a
livelihood that helps realize our ideal of understanding and
compassion. Aware of global economic, political and social realities,
we will behave responsibly as consumers and as citizens, not
supporting companies that deprive others of their chance to live.
12. The Twelfth Mindfulness Training: Reverence for Life
Aware that much suffering is caused by war and conflict, we are
determined to cultivate nonviolence, understanding, and compassion in
our daily lives, to promote peace education, mindful mediation, and
reconciliation within families, communities, nations, and in the
world. We are determined not to kill and not to let others kill. We
will diligently practice deep looking with our Sangha to discover
better ways to protect life and prevent war.
13. The Thirteenth Mindfulness Training: Generosity
Aware of the suffering caused by exploitation, social injustice,
stealing, and oppression, we are committed to cultivating loving
kindness and learning ways to work for the w | | | | | | | | | | | |
