Religions > Atheism > WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill Klintons Cigar" |
| Date: |
04 Aug 2005 01:04:43 PM |
| Object: |
WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
Bush Says al-Qaida Threat Won't Deter U.S.
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer
President Bush said Thursday that videotape threats from al-Qaida's
second-in-command will not drive the United States out of Iraq or the
broader Middle East.
"We will stay on the offense against these people," Bush said of the
comments by Ayman al-Zawahri.
Al-Zawahri threatened more destruction in London and said in a
videotape earlier Thursday that the United States would suffer tens of
thousands of military dead if it does not withdraw from Iraq.
"They're terrorists and they're killers and they will kill innocent
people...so they can impose their dark vision on the world," Bush said
as he stood alongside Colombian President Alvaro Uribe.
Their talks at Bush's ranch focused heavily on terrorism and the
problem of narcotics trafficking.
Uribe said that both he and Bush consider the war against international
terrorism a top priority of both their countries.
"The great enemy of Colombian democracy is terrorism...and our great
partner in defeating it has been the government and people of the
United States," Uribe said. "U.S. cooperation has been exemplary. It
has gone beyond rhetoric. ... All democratic countries should know
that."
Bush vowed continued U.S. aid to help Colombia fight narco-terrorism,
and to enhance its economy and its economic institutions. "America will
continue to stand with the people of Colombia," he said.
Uribe said more U.S. support was important and thanked Bush for seeking
more aid from Congress.
"We cannot leave this task half finished," he said.
Bush also paid tribute to Marines who died over the past few days in
bombings in Iraq, including a community from near Columbus, Ohio, which
suffered heavy losses.
He said that the community of Brook Park "suffered mightily over the
last couple of days."
"I hope they can take comfort in the fact that millions of their fellow
citizens pray for them," he said.
During a question and answer session with reporters, Bush was asked
about al-Zawahri's videotaped warnings.
"The comments of the No. 2 man of al-Qaida make it clear that Iraq is
part of this war on terror, and we're at war," Bush said.
"As I have told the American people, people like Zawahri have an
ideology that is dark, dim, backwards," the president said. "They don't
trust, they don't appreciate women. If you don't agree to their narrow
view of religion, you're whipped in the public square."
Bush said that al-Zawahri "was a part of the team that attacked us on
Sept. 11, 2001."
"Part of their goal is to drive us out of the broader Middle East:
precisely what this Zawahiri said. He's threatening. They have come up
against a nation that, one, will defend itself," Bush said.
"We will stay the course. We will complete the job in Iraq," he added.
After the news conference, Bush and Uribe toured the ranch in Bush's
white pickup truck - a pastime that Bush likes to call "windshield
ranching."
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"We will complete the job in Iraq"
'Nuff said
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| User: "Erasmus \The Mannequin\ Brown" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
04 Aug 2005 08:53:49 PM |
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"Bill Klinton's Cigar" <shaolinninjitsu@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123178682.889705.46770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bush Says al-Qaida Threat Won't Deter U.S.
By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer
President Bush said Thursday that videotape threats from al-Qaida's
second-in-command will not drive the United States out of Iraq or the
broader Middle East.
"We will stay on the offense against these people," Bush said of the
comments by Ayman al-Zawahri.
Al-Zawahri threatened more destruction in London and said in a
videotape earlier Thursday that the United States would suffer tens of
thousands of military dead if it does not withdraw from Iraq.
"They're terrorists and they're killers and they will kill innocent
people...so they can impose their dark vision on the world," Bush said
as he stood alongside Colombian President Alvaro Uribe.
Their talks at Bush's ranch focused heavily on terrorism and the
problem of narcotics trafficking.
Uribe said that both he and Bush consider the war against international
terrorism a top priority of both their countries.
"The great enemy of Colombian democracy is terrorism...and our great
partner in defeating it has been the government and people of the
United States," Uribe said. "U.S. cooperation has been exemplary. It
has gone beyond rhetoric. ... All democratic countries should know
that."
Bush vowed continued U.S. aid to help Colombia fight narco-terrorism,
and to enhance its economy and its economic institutions. "America will
continue to stand with the people of Colombia," he said.
Uribe said more U.S. support was important and thanked Bush for seeking
more aid from Congress.
"We cannot leave this task half finished," he said.
Bush also paid tribute to Marines who died over the past few days in
bombings in Iraq, including a community from near Columbus, Ohio, which
suffered heavy losses.
He said that the community of Brook Park "suffered mightily over the
last couple of days."
"I hope they can take comfort in the fact that millions of their fellow
citizens pray for them," he said.
During a question and answer session with reporters, Bush was asked
about al-Zawahri's videotaped warnings.
"The comments of the No. 2 man of al-Qaida make it clear that Iraq is
part of this war on terror, and we're at war," Bush said.
"As I have told the American people, people like Zawahri have an
ideology that is dark, dim, backwards," the president said. "They don't
trust, they don't appreciate women. If you don't agree to their narrow
view of religion, you're whipped in the public square."
Bush said that al-Zawahri "was a part of the team that attacked us on
Sept. 11, 2001."
"Part of their goal is to drive us out of the broader Middle East:
precisely what this Zawahiri said. He's threatening. They have come up
against a nation that, one, will defend itself," Bush said.
"We will stay the course. We will complete the job in Iraq," he added.
After the news conference, Bush and Uribe toured the ranch in Bush's
white pickup truck - a pastime that Bush likes to call "windshield
ranching."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"We will complete the job in Iraq"
'Nuff said
* A K *
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| User: "Joe F." |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
04 Aug 2005 10:51:11 PM |
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Bush paid tribute to the fallen Marines by going on a five week
vacation. He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
He is permanently AWOL. If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
04 Aug 2005 11:28:24 PM |
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Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
-Eric
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| User: "Wisk" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
05 Aug 2005 04:31:28 PM |
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"Grey Mouser West" <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote in message
news:1123216104.659379.286350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
He is the reason for those funerals. Why not honor the dead by showing the
flag drapped caskets?
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
Could you put this is English?
Wisk
-Eric
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| User: "slim" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEANTERRORISTS WIN |
06 Aug 2005 10:27:53 PM |
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Wisk wrote:
"Grey Mouser West" <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote in message
news:1123216104.659379.286350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
He is the reason for those funerals. Why not honor the dead by showing the
flag drapped caskets?
SHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
Showing the dead Americans is a sign of weakness to the enemy!
BU$H is showing our strength by cutting VA hospital funding!
--
"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George "Dubya" Bush
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| User: "Joe F." |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
05 Aug 2005 12:40:24 AM |
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Actually, past presidents have attended memorials & services for fallen
soldiers, even when the USA was not at war (Reagan attended a memorial
for the marines killed in Beirut & Clinton attended one after the Cole
was bombed).
Why would a grieving family *invite* Bush to their son's funeral? Would
you think to do such a thing if you were in that position? And why, oh
why, if Bush & Co. do not want to be perceived as making hay out of a
fallen soldier's services, why do they not treat the victims of 9/11
with the same *respect*, instead of invoking those magic numbers
whenever challenged about the war in Iraq?
President Lincoln, Gettysburg Address: "In a larger sense, we cannot
dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave
men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above
our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long
remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.
It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished
work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is
rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before
us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that
cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion."
8/1/05, Bush, on his current vacation: "I'm looking forward to getting
down there and just kind of settling in. I'll be doing a lot of work.
On the other hand, I'll also be kind of making sure my Texas roots run
deep."
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
05 Aug 2005 02:20:36 AM |
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Joe F. wrote:
Actually, past presidents have attended memorials & services for fallen
soldiers, even when the USA was not at war (Reagan attended a memorial
for the marines killed in Beirut & Clinton attended one after the Cole
was bombed).
Those were not combat operations. When the cause of death is combat
operations it does not seem to have happened very often. You don't
think it is in poor taste? 'Hi, I ordered your son into harms way and
now he is dead. Now I feel so grieved about it that I would like to
turn your son's funeral into a photo op. I hope you don't mind. Oh
and remember that you are part of the performance so don't let your
emotions get in the way.'
Why would a grieving family *invite* Bush to their son's funeral?
I have no idea why they might want an outsider there. You would have
to ask one that does. Perhaps some familys would want a head of state
at their funeral.
Would
you think to do such a thing if you were in that position?
No and if it came up I would make it clear that they were not welcome.
And why, oh
why, if Bush & Co. do not want to be perceived as making hay out . . .
I guess you missed what I was saying. He has no business being there
without an invitation. I would think it rude to even ask unless Bush
actually *knew* the man who died.
of a
fallen soldier's services, why do they not treat the victims of 9/11
with the same *respect*, instead of invoking those magic numbers
whenever challenged about the war in Iraq?
Are you saying that the cause of the war is off limits in discussions
about the war?
President Lincoln, Gettysburg Address:
That was not a funeral.
"In a larger sense, we cannot
dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave
men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above
our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long
remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.
It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished
work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is
rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before
us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that
cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion."
8/1/05, Bush, on his current vacation: "I'm looking forward to getting
down there and just kind of settling in. I'll be doing a lot of work.
On the other hand, I'll also be kind of making sure my Texas roots run
deep."
You like comparing apples to oranges. I am sure that if we cherry pick
we can find something rather ordinary that Lincoln said during his time
as president. Try comparing oranges to oranges for a change.
'Among the fallen soldiers and civilians are sons and daughters of
Australia, Bulgaria, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, India,
Italy, Japan, the Republic of Korea, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania,
Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, the United
Kingdom, and the United States. We honor their courage, we pray for the
comfort of their families. We will uphold the cause they served.'
-G.W.Bush
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/19/iraq/main607383.shtml
'The war on terror has brought great costs. For those who have lost
loved ones in Afghanistan and Iraq, today is a day of last letters and
fresh tears.'
-G.W.Bush
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050530.html
'In this vital cause, some of our men and women in uniform have fallen.
Some have returned home with terrible injuries.
And all who sacrifice will have the permanent gratitude of the United
States of America.'
-G.W.Bush
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/08/bush.transcript/
There, I found three with almost no effort. I am sure there are more.
Bush even visited a battlefield in Iraq and said:
'We did not charge hundreds of miles into the heart of Iraq, pay a
bitter cost in casualties, defeat a brutal dictator and liberate 25
million people only to retreat before a band of thugs and assassins'
http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2003/1128/epf501.htm
Nobody can say it as well as Lincoln could but that is to be expected.
Yet Bush has covered the topic.
-Eric
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| User: "slim" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEANTERRORISTS WIN |
06 Aug 2005 07:44:18 PM |
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Grey Mouser West wrote:
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals?
Why would anyone WANT him standing over thier
kids cold, dead body?
--
"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George "Dubya" Bush
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| User: "Colonel Panic" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
05 Aug 2005 10:31:10 AM |
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In article <1123216104.659379.286350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
*****. I am an independent who has voted for republicans and
democrats. I dislike bush because of what he is doing to our country,
the constitution, and his abuse of our miltary. But if that is what
his "faction" stands for then maybe you are right because I do oppose
that faction as do most real Americans of any politcal party. So what
is your point?
Just because you may be a blind partisan doesn't mean everyone else is.
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| User: "slim" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEANTERRORISTS WIN |
06 Aug 2005 10:26:24 PM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
In article <1123216104.659379.286350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
*****. I am an independent who has voted for republicans and
democrats. I dislike bush because of what he is doing to our country,
the constitution, and his abuse of our miltary. But if that is what
his "faction" stands for then maybe you are right because I do oppose
that faction as do most real Americans of any politcal party. So what
is your point?
Just because you may be a blind partisan doesn't mean everyone else is.
Like POPPY like $hrub....BU$H=LIAR.
--
"I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain --
I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the
interesting thing about being the president.
Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they
say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody
an explanation. "
- George "Dubya" Bush
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
05 Aug 2005 12:35:10 PM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
In article <1123216104.659379.286350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
*****. I am an . . .
Did I make a claim about you? Did I make a claim about 'every'? How
is a single counter example going to deal with a claim about many? The
word many implies that there will be exceptions.
. . . independent who has voted for republicans and
democrats. I dislike bush because of what he is doing to our country,
Not everyone shares your point of view on that. Gee you dislike Bush
because of your view on what Bush is doing to our country. I guess I
should have made my claim more general.
the constitution, and his abuse of our miltary. But if that is what
his "faction" stands for . . .
Of course it does not.
. . . then maybe you are right because I do oppose
that faction as do most real Americans of any politcal party.
Sorry but the Republicans do not oppose the Republicans yet they are a
political party. Try again.
So what
is your point?
Just because you may be a blind partisan
You seem to enjoy making things up.
. . . . doesn't mean everyone else is.
I guess you can't read. How do you get 'everyone' from 'many'? I said
there are many. If you don't know what that word means then look it
up.
-Eric
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| User: "Colonel Panic" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
05 Aug 2005 06:30:27 PM |
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In article <1123263310.836829.99970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Grey
Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
In article <1123216104.659379.286350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Joe F. wrote:
Bush . . . He has never been to a dead soldier's funeral.
Has Bush been invited to any funerals? The worse thing a politician
can do is show up to a funeral uninvited. When that happens everyone
thinks he is doing it for the wrong reason.
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
*****. I am an . . .
Did I make a claim about you? Did I make a claim about 'every'?
Ok Mr. Word-parsing weasel, explain just who it is you think dislikes
Bush simply because he is republican and explain why you think that.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
06 Aug 2005 10:17:12 PM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
<snip>
explain just who it is you think dislikes
Bush simply because he is republican and explain why you think that.
I would suspect many of those who disliked Bush even before he took
office. Don't you think that people tend to like or dislike a leader
depending on how well he represents their personal political views?
As and example take those who are strongly pro-choice. Don't you think
their view of Bush is effected a bit every time he says or does
something pro-life? And those very same actions by Bush have an
opposite effect on those who are strongly pro-life. The same is true
for any issue that someone finds important. Those who find it
important will be influenced by how well a leader represents them.
When the Govinator bans a type of rifle don't you think that tends to
have a negative effect on his approval rating among gun enthusiast and
a positive effect among gun control advocates? That was why when Joe
F. said what he did I had to agree with him to a degree. If Bush had
acted like a Democrat and championed the Democrat cause then a lot of
Republicans would be very anti-Bush right now.
-Eric
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| User: "Colonel Panic" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
07 Aug 2005 07:31:05 AM |
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In article <1123384632.388669.140350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
If he was a Democrat, every Republican in this
country would have burned him in effigy already... twice.
You exaggerate of course but you are right that many of those who hate
Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some
other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.
<snip>
explain just who it is you think dislikes
Bush simply because he is republican and explain why you think that.
I would suspect many of those who disliked Bush even before he took
office. Don't you think that people tend to like or dislike a leader
depending on how well he represents their personal political views?
As and example take those who are strongly pro-choice. Don't you think
their view of Bush is effected a bit every time he says or does
something pro-life? And those very same actions by Bush have an
opposite effect on those who are strongly pro-life. The same is true
for any issue that someone finds important. Those who find it
important will be influenced by how well a leader represents them.
When the Govinator bans a type of rifle don't you think that tends to
have a negative effect on his approval rating among gun enthusiast and
a positive effect among gun control advocates? That was why when Joe
F. said what he did I had to agree with him to a degree. If Bush had
acted like a Democrat and championed the Democrat cause then a lot of
Republicans would be very anti-Bush right now.
So you can't actually name any then eh? I figured as much.
Republicans tend to be all slogans, bumperstickers and indefensible
talk radio one-liners.
By the way, a lot of Republicans ARE anti-bush right now. Try to pay
attention.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
07 Aug 2005 08:39:53 AM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
So you can't actually name any then eh?
You wanted specific examples? You can't be serious. What, can't you
understand a concept without a concrete example? What good does it do
naming specific people you do not know?
I figured as much.
It wouldn't be the first time you were wrong. If we broaden the
question to those who do not like Bush because they think Bush does not
represent them on issues they hold important then I can even name
someone you know. There is a rather rude chap who has from time to
time been known to mistake the word 'many' to mean the same thing as
'all'. He calls himself Colonel Panic and recently posted this
comment: 'I dislike bush because of what he is doing to our country,
the constitution, and his abuse of our miltary.'
-Eric
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| User: "Colonel Panic" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
07 Aug 2005 11:03:02 AM |
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In article <1123421993.314887.279590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
So you can't actually name any then eh?
You wanted specific examples? You can't be serious. What, can't you
understand a concept without a concrete example? What good does it do
naming specific people you do not know?
Well you seemed so convinced of what you were saying, I thought maybe
you would have the ability to give an example.
I was wrong. There must be no examples of what you were claiming.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
07 Aug 2005 12:33:11 PM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
There must be no examples of what you were claiming.
Lets assume that you are right and none of the people who hate Bush do
so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction. What other motives exist that could generate so
much Bush hatred? Is it his haircut? His accent? His poor speaking
skills? The fact that he can't play the saxophone? Personal issues
seem minor. If it isn't his politics then what else could possibly
generate such an enormous effect?
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| User: "Erasmus \The Mannequin\ Brown" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
08 Aug 2005 02:40:14 AM |
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"Grey Mouser West" <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote in message
news:1123435991.504823.110770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
There must be no examples of what you were claiming.
Lets assume that you are right and none of the people who hate Bush do
so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction. What other motives exist that could generate so
much Bush hatred? Is it his haircut? His accent? His poor speaking
skills? The fact that he can't play the saxophone?
HE CAN'T PLAY THE SAXOPHONE? That *****!!!
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| User: "GEM" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
07 Aug 2005 03:43:05 PM |
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"Grey Mouser West" <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote in message
news:1123435991.504823.110770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
There must be no examples of what you were claiming.
Lets assume that you are right and none of the people who hate Bush do
so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction. What other motives exist that could generate so
much Bush hatred? Is it his haircut? His accent? His poor speaking
skills? The fact that he can't play the saxophone? Personal issues
seem minor. If it isn't his politics then what else could possibly
generate such an enormous effect?
There is one thing that has historically manifested hatred of singular
individuals by the masses and that thing is Fear. When people fear something
they cannot secure themselves against, they tend to respond in
ever-increasing anger. Once you have become angry enough, hatred is merely
the icing on the cake.
Why do people Fear Bush?
Because they see him as a Religious War Monger - similar to all the past
enemies of the USA - and they know that war kills the People, not the
Mongers. They understand deep down that his every action will cause them
grief, even if those same actions do profit the man and his cause. They fear
him because he has control of their lives and seems to care naught for them,
save as to how much they can earn for him and his family and friends.
When something you fear has contol of your life, you eventually will hate
that something, rather than fear it. In the case of the Bush Crime Family,
those Americans who feared George Bush and his administration and
investigated their backgrounds, immediately found reasons to hate him and
his family and his family's friends, since they have all stood proudly for
everything the USA has supposedly fought against, for generations.
GEM
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 12:55:06 AM |
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GEM wrote:
"Grey Mouser West" <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote in message
news:1123435991.504823.110770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
There must be no examples of what you were claiming.
Lets assume that you are right and none of the people who hate Bush do
so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction. What other motives exist that could generate so
much Bush hatred? Is it his haircut? His accent? His poor speaking
skills? The fact that he can't play the saxophone? Personal issues
seem minor. If it isn't his politics then what else could possibly
generate such an enormous effect?
There is one thing that has historically manifested hatred of singular
individuals by the masses and that thing is Fear. When people fear something
they cannot secure themselves against, they tend to respond in
ever-increasing anger. Once you have become angry enough, hatred is merely
the icing on the cake.
Why do people Fear Bush?
Because they see him as a Religious War Monger
Some people do no doubt.
- similar to all the past
enemies of the USA - and they know that war kills the People, not the
Mongers. They understand deep down that his every action will cause them
grief, even if those same actions do profit the man and his cause. They fear
him because he has control of their lives and seems to care naught for them,
save as to how much they can earn for him and his family and friends.
When something you fear has contol of your life, you eventually will hate
that something, rather than fear it. In the case of the Bush Crime Family,
Interesting. Do you think all U.S. presidents are criminals?
those Americans who feared George Bush and his administration and
investigated their backgrounds, immediately found reasons to hate him and
his family and his family's friends, since they have all stood proudly for
everything the USA has supposedly fought against, for generations.
GEM
That reminds me of an emotional response millions of people had to Bill
Clinton. I agree with you. That definitely happens.
-Eric
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| User: "Colonel Panic" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
08 Aug 2005 10:36:09 AM |
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In article <1123435991.504823.110770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
There must be no examples of what you were claiming.
Lets assume that you are right and none of the people who hate Bush do
so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction. What other motives exist that could generate so
much Bush hatred? Is it his haircut? His accent? His poor speaking
skills? The fact that he can't play the saxophone? Personal issues
seem minor. If it isn't his politics then what else could possibly
generate such an enormous effect?
Hey look! its a tapdancing mouse! You were claiming it was about his
party affiliation not his actions. Now you change your tune. Dance
away.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 12:32:47 AM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
You were claiming it was about his
party affiliation not his actions.
This is not true. My claim involved *representation* of political
views. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out *how* a President
represents some group? A given action or policy can represent the
views shared by more than one faction. For example labor unions and an
industry lobby might both oppose a given trade treaty. If a president
vetos the treaty he would be representing the views of both factions.
-Eric
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| User: "Colonel Panic" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 09:05:16 AM |
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In article <1123824767.326512.134500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
You were claiming it was about his
party affiliation not his actions.
This is not true. My claim involved *representation* of political
views. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out *how* a President
represents some group? A given action or policy can represent the
views shared by more than one faction. For example labor unions and an
industry lobby might both oppose a given trade treaty. If a president
vetos the treaty he would be representing the views of both factions.
You were trying to say that people hate bush simply because he
"represents" the other side. You were wrong. You know this as can be
seen by your snipping of your own words and your tap dancing routine.
Aren't you republicans EVER able to be honest when you are wrong?
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 11:21:32 AM |
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Colonel Panic wrote:
In article <1123824767.326512.134500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
You were claiming it was about his
party affiliation not his actions.
This is not true. My claim involved *representation* of political
views. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out *how* a President
represents some group? A given action or policy can represent the
views shared by more than one faction. For example labor unions and an
industry lobby might both oppose a given trade treaty. If a president
vetos the treaty he would be representing the views of both factions.
You were trying to say that people hate bush simply because he
"represents" the other side.
Specifically that Bush represents factions with political views that
are different from the ones held by many of those who hate Bush. I
also made the point that representation happens through actions. In
fact you had no clue what I was saying because you thought that a
single counter example disproved a claim involving the quantifier of
'many'.
You were wrong.
Huh? I have given you the opportunity to prove that this is not the
case and you have not done so. Your only atempt was to offer a counter
example of someone who dislikes rather than hates Bush. If people do
not hate Bush over politics then why else would they hate him? I think
that GEM made a good point that often hate forms from fear but I think
that would still involve a leader who represents factions who have
political views that are very different from one's own. (That means it
is still about politics)
You know this as can be
seen by your snipping of your own words and your tap dancing routine.
I sniped your insults. Very little of your conversations have been
reasonable. I focused on that tiny bit that was. It seems that all
you can do is insult and make false accusations.
Aren't you republicans EVER able to be honest when you are wrong?
Why of course. Show me that I am wrong and you will see. Show me that
nobody who hates Bush does so due to the fact that Bush represents the
political views of some other faction. The pro-choicers don't care one
way or the other if Bush threatens to put a pro-life Justice on the
Supreme Court. The peace protesters could care less wether or not Bush
launches a war in Iraq. The love environmentalists have for Bush is
not effected by the way that Bush has removed environmental
protections. And so on. Good luck!
-Eric
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| User: "Jack A. Lopes" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 01:42:01 PM |
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In article <1123863691.985449.52240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Grey
Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
In article <1123824767.326512.134500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
<snip>
You were claiming it was about his
party affiliation not his actions.
This is not true. My claim involved *representation* of political
views. Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out *how* a President
represents some group? A given action or policy can represent the
views shared by more than one faction. For example labor unions and an
industry lobby might both oppose a given trade treaty. If a president
vetos the treaty he would be representing the views of both factions.
You were trying to say that people hate bush simply because he
"represents" the other side.
Specifically that Bush represents factions with political views that
are different from the ones held by many of those who hate Bush. I
also made the point that representation happens through actions. In
fact you had no clue what I was saying because you thought that a
single counter example disproved a claim involving the quantifier of
'many'.
You were wrong.
Huh? I have given you the opportunity to prove that this is not the
case and you have not done so. Your only atempt was to offer a counter
example of someone who dislikes rather than hates Bush. If people do
not hate Bush over politics then why else would they hate him? I think
that GEM made a good point that often hate forms from fear but I think
that would still involve a leader who represents factions who have
political views that are very different from one's own. (That means it
is still about politics)
You know this as can be
seen by your snipping of your own words and your tap dancing routine.
I sniped your insults. Very little of your conversations have been
reasonable. I focused on that tiny bit that was. It seems that all
you can do is insult and make false accusations.
Aren't you republicans EVER able to be honest when you are wrong?
Why of course. Show me that I am wrong and you will see. Show me that
nobody who hates Bush does so due to the fact that Bush represents the
political views of some other faction. The pro-choicers don't care one
way or the other if Bush threatens to put a pro-life Justice on the
Supreme Court. The peace protesters could care less wether or not Bush
launches a war in Iraq. The love environmentalists have for Bush is
not effected by the way that Bush has removed environmental
protections. And so on. Good luck!
I have been watching you back pedaling from the start. You have already
been shown to be wrong when you claimed that most people simply hate
bush because he is on the other side. Do you think nobody noticed?
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 05:45:03 PM |
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Jack A. Lopes wrote:
I have been watching you back pedaling from the start.
Yeah right. It isn't backpedaling when it dawns on you that what I am
saying is not what you first thought I was saying. That is clearing up
your confusion.
You have already
been shown to be wrong when you claimed that most people simply hate
bush because he is on the other side.
When did I say that? Most means over half. As I have already pointed
out the word I used, many, implies that there will be exceptions. Show
me where I wrote most. 'Other side' is a simplification of what I
actually wrote. I emphasized representation of views held by different
political factions rather than being on sides. The way I worded it
could also include groups in the middle and allows for many factions.
In the follow up examples I mentioned the two main political parties
but I also mentioned the pro-life camp, the pro-choice camp, the gun
control camp, the gun advocates camp, and I made it clear that factions
can be based on many other issues as well. When I mentioned sides I
was talking about the behavior as in 'this behavior can be seen on both
sides'. Do you see how when you change a few words you change the
meaning?
Do you think nobody noticed?
I think some people noticed your strawman. Why don't you show that my
original statement was false. If you can't prove that it is false then
show that it is unreasonable to think that out of those who hate Bush
many do so due to the fact that Bush represents the views of some other
political faction.
Oh and lets have no more false accusations about backpedaling. My
original claim was 'You exaggerate of course but you are right that
many of those who hate Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents
the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.'
Take note that 'of some other political faction' modifies views.
My follow up explanation on August 6th (which only generated the
response 'So you can't actually name any then eh?' from our esteemed
Colonel) was:
'I would suspect many of those who disliked Bush even before he took
office. Don't you think that people tend to like or dislike a leader
depending on how well he represents their personal political views?
As and example take those who are strongly pro-choice. Don't you think
their view of Bush is effected a bit every time he says or does
something pro-life? And those very same actions by Bush have an
opposite effect on those who are strongly pro-life. The same is true
for any issue that someone finds important. Those who find it
important will be influenced by how well a leader represents them.
When the Govinator bans a type of rifle don't you think that tends to
have a negative effect on his approval rating among gun enthusiast and
a positive effect among gun control advocates? That was why when Joe
F. said what he did I had to agree with him to a degree. If Bush had
acted like a Democrat and championed the Democrat cause then a lot of
Republicans would be very anti-Bush right now.'
-Eric
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| User: "Jack A. Lopes" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
14 Aug 2005 08:09:58 AM |
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In article <1123886703.300213.132020@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Jack A. Lopes wrote:
I have been watching you back pedaling from the start.
Yeah right. It isn't backpedaling when it dawns on you that what I am
saying is not what you first thought I was saying. That is clearing up
your confusion.
You have already
been shown to be wrong when you claimed that most people simply hate
bush because he is on the other side.
When did I say that? Most means over half. As I have already pointed
out the word I used, many, implies that there will be exceptions. Show
me where I wrote most. 'Other side' is a simplification of what I
actually wrote. I emphasized representation of views held by different
political factions rather than being on sides. The way I worded it
could also include groups in the middle and allows for many factions.
In the follow up examples I mentioned the two main political parties
but I also mentioned the pro-life camp, the pro-choice camp, the gun
control camp, the gun advocates camp, and I made it clear that factions
can be based on many other issues as well. When I mentioned sides I
was talking about the behavior as in 'this behavior can be seen on both
sides'. Do you see how when you change a few words you change the
meaning?
Do you think nobody noticed?
I think some people noticed your strawman. Why don't you show that my
original statement was false.
The Colonel already did. Get over it.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
14 Aug 2005 11:11:11 AM |
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Jack A. Lopes wrote:
In article <1123886703.300213.132020@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Grey Mouser West <calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Jack A. Lopes wrote:
I have been watching you back pedaling from the start.
Yeah right. It isn't backpedaling when it dawns on you that what I am
saying is not what you first thought I was saying. That is clearing up
your confusion.
You have already
been shown to be wrong when you claimed that most people simply hate
bush because he is on the other side.
When did I say that? Most means over half. As I have already pointed
out the word I used, many, implies that there will be exceptions. Show
me where I wrote most. 'Other side' is a simplification of what I
actually wrote. I emphasized representation of views held by different
political factions rather than being on sides. The way I worded it
could also include groups in the middle and allows for many factions.
In the follow up examples I mentioned the two main political parties
but I also mentioned the pro-life camp, the pro-choice camp, the gun
control camp, the gun advocates camp, and I made it clear that factions
can be based on many other issues as well. When I mentioned sides I
was talking about the behavior as in 'this behavior can be seen on both
sides'. Do you see how when you change a few words you change the
meaning?
Do you think nobody noticed?
I think some people noticed your strawman. Why don't you show that my
original statement was false.
The Colonel already did.
Where? When? You still have not shown me where I said 'most people
simply hate bush because he is on the other side.' You have not even
shown me where I used the word 'most'. The only thing you have ever
provided to me is false accusations so I am starting to think that you
must be a troll.
-Eric
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| User: "Seth Jackson" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 06:49:34 PM |
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On 12 Aug 2005 15:45:03 -0700, "Grey Mouser West"
<calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Oh and lets have no more false accusations about backpedaling. My
original claim was 'You exaggerate of course but you are right that
many of those who hate Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents
the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.'
You state that as if there is something wrong or irrational about
"that behavior". You then go on to justify your claim with the rather
obvious statement that people don't like politicians who have hold
opposing views on issues. If that's all you really meant, then your
original statement was pretty pointless, since there's really no
better reason to dislike a politician other than corruption.
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| User: "Grey Mouser West" |
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| Title: Re: WE WILL STAY THE COURSE EVEN THOUGH LIBTURDS HOPE THE INSUR...I MEAN TERRORISTS WIN |
12 Aug 2005 08:13:40 PM |
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Seth Jackson wrote:
On 12 Aug 2005 15:45:03 -0700, "Grey Mouser West"
<calvinthecat@ocsnet.net> wrote:
Oh and lets have no more false accusations about backpedaling. My
original claim was 'You exaggerate of course but you are right that
many of those who hate Bush do so due to the fact that Bush represents
the views of some other
political faction and that behavior can be seen on both sides.'
You state that as if there is something wrong or irrational about
"that behavior".
*sigh*
Not you too! We got off to such a nice start when you quoted my
description of a behavior and said 'That seems like a rather rational
reason . . . '. Why would you infer that I thought there was something
wrong or irrational about the original behavior? I have been trying to
describe something that I find to be quite rational.
You then go on to justify your claim with the rather
obvious statement that people don't like politicians who have hold
opposing views on issues. If that's all you really meant, then your
original statement was pretty pointless,
It certainly wasn't anything profound. I thought I was stating the
obvious. That doesn't mean I will stand by and do nothing when someone
else calls it ***** and mis-characterizes my position. Originally I
was trying to agree with someone's critique of Republicans. However
what they had said was an exaggeration and I was trying to trim the
idea down to something that was mundane.
since there's really no
better reason to dislike a politician other than corruption.
Corruption would actually be a more noble reason to dislike a leader.
(I do hope there are some leaders who are not corrupt.) Yet I am
afraid all too often human nature causes us to pay less attention to
corruption in our own camp and more attention to corruption among the
leaders of other camps. It becomes a means rather than an end.
-Eric
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