| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Godfrey" |
| Date: |
01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 AM |
| Object: |
Well, looks like we're fucked. |
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 10:26:37 AM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another one
along in a minute.
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA. I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
02 Apr 2005 01:58:47 AM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:26:37 +0100 the ET form known as Therion
Ware<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another one
along in a minute.
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA. I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
I did not read the article (503 error).
The big strength and weakness of the US is its' access to raw
materials outside its' borders. The economic system of the USA and to
a lessor extent the rest of the world as well does not only require X
amount of energy and materials to keep the economy going but needs
X+Y% extra each year. The financial system requires money growth
through investment using fractional reserve lending and for that to be
matched by things for that extra money to buy. A slow motion pyramid
game. When out of sync recession or inflation occurs. But growth there
must be.
The US has in 1800 a boundless frontier, thousands of kms of rivers,
millions of hectares of arable land, millions of sq kms of timber,
billions of tons of metal ores and coal, trillions of cubic feet of
natural gas and billions of barrels of oil. Growth was easy. Just go
west and chop, dig, farm, drill and build. The US was also lucky in
growing up as fossil fuels were being developed with the easy cheap
plentiful energy needed for all economic activity. It was really the
technology that selected the capitalist system rather than the
capitalist system making possible the technologies. In an environment
of easy energy the growth oriented capitalism was the fittest. In
alternative environment types other systems would be selected. Like
long hair selected for in one biological environment and short hair in
another. The same policies fail disastrously in other economic
environments with the result of "no true Scotsman" hand waving by the
economic theologians. It is no coincidence that world population
increased from 1 billion to 6 billion between 1800 and 2000. More
energy equals more people. 1979 was the peak world energy per capita
year (externalised to third world countries only by WTO/IMF policies).
Since the 80s world population growth rates have dropped and per
capita grain production peaked in 1986. World grain stocks down from
over 1 year to 40 days this year and due to disappear by 2008. It is
why world population will be only 1-2 billion by 2100. With falling
absolute energy production coming soon in addition to existing falling
per capita energy production already evident since 1979 the green
revolution will fail and food production will crash.
But the frontier was over by the 1890s. No more easy growth. That
marked the arrival by the USA on the international stage as a serious
power with the Spanish-American war. After WWI there was tension
between Britain and US with US corporations wanting access to British
colonies. The need for growth. After WWII the US was dominant. Now the
US needed access to energy and raw materials of the whole world. To
that end the CIA overthrew governments everywhere from Guatemala to
Iran, Chile, Indonesia and many other countries.
But growth can not continue forever. The USA needs growth - not just X
amount each but X plus more each year. The US and the west generally
dealt with the oil crisis in the 70s when peak per capita energy
production was reached with globalisation. That is the west continued
to grow per capita energy consumption by using the IMF/WTO/World Bank
to put third world countries into debt, widening the wealth gap and
with the west taking up the slack of available energy. China was an
exception but China was outside the IMF/WTO/World Bank system until
recently.
Now in the 21st century and energy is tight forever. Oil - half gone
and sure to decline in the near future, natural gas, mostly gone in
North America and 1/4 gone in the world but most sources are stranded
and it is hard to transport. Coal is different but still limited.
"Hundreds" of years will not last if somehow growth can be sustained
post oil peak and post NG peak. Remember coal trucks need diesel.
US foreign policy is to externalise energy stress onto others. Iraq is
about externalising oil peak and so is Iran. The there is the
petrodollar. The US fiats into existence the currency to buy what it
needs and the whole must trade to get oil currency for oil. This is
financed through T-bills which countries selling into the US market
are either happy to buy or are trapped into buying. Iran's plan to
open a new oil market and sell in euros is a threat to this system.
Iran will be so much harder for the US to wage war against and yet it
is so essential for the US to do so. I would be surprised if nukes are
NOT used. As Richard Hienberg calls it - the last man standing
strategy.
What is the future of the USA? If the US can reconfigure itself into a
sustainable economy - a no growth, locally based economy then it has a
chance. But I am reading Jarad Diamond's latest book Collapse and in
it is the story of Norweigian settlers in Greenland who starved
because they had a taboo against eating fish. They died out amid
plenty of fishing, preferring even to eat each other. The US has an
absolute taboo too, one area of absolute inflexibility and that is the
financial system. IMHO the USA will NOT change that system. Americans
can NOT make the changes needed. As true believers they will hold onto
a vision that is no longer suitable for the 21st century environment
as it will unfold. The USA will fall because they lacked understanding
about how markets worked and believed they held an absolute truth but
what they understood was instead only a relative truth.
--
epicurus1*at*obtuse*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
02 Apr 2005 07:55:29 AM |
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On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:28:47 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:26:37 +0100 the ET form known as Therion
Ware<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another one
along in a minute.
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA. I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
I did not read the article (503 error).
<snipped lengthy but interesting analysis of US economic doom>
Article's working now. It's a bit of a joke, really. Koranic scholar
(is that as much of a contradiction as "Biblical scholar"?) claims
that the US will be destroyed in a tsunami as punishment for past
iniquities. Tsunamis are all the apocalyptic rage these days, in case
you haven't heard.
You have an interesting perspective. I agree with some of it,
particularly with the relatively "easy" rise of the US as an economic
power. Given the space and resources, prosperity was pretty much a
no-brainer. If you're a Jared Diamond fan you've probably read Guns,
Germs and Steel and realize the importance of geography and pure size
on the road to national success.
But I disagree that circumstance alone is responsible for the rise of
the United States.
The United States also originated (on a national level) the idea that
a country is strongest when its people are least encumbered by
government regulation and oppression. The Wild West was short-lived
but left an indelible impression upon the American national psyche.
Freedom and economic growth do go hand in hand.
Case in point: China, which has grown freer as it has grown richer.
Free market (i.e. growth-oriented) financial systems tend to bring out
the best in people from a production standpoint. Freedom is a natural
result of prosperity, and vice-versa.
If anything, our downfall will be as a result of the recent distancing
of our modern reality from the freedom that made us what we are.
Heavier government regulation is the problem- it creates an
artificial onus on businesses which makes them less competitive.
China owes a lot to the overregulation of American business by the
socialist forces in the US, pricing us out of the world labor market.
In other words, we are moving away from the status quo, the most
demonstrably potent economic system the world has ever seen. It's not
that we're not able to adapt to a new reality, it's that we are
inadvertently drifting away from the reality that has made us what we
are.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
03 Apr 2005 03:19:01 AM |
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 07:55:29 GMT the ET form known as
Godfrey<none@provided.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:28:47 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<abuse@optusnet,com.au> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:26:37 +0100 the ET form known as Therion
Ware<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another one
along in a minute.
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA. I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
I did not read the article (503 error).
<snipped lengthy but interesting analysis of US economic doom>
Article's working now. It's a bit of a joke, really. Koranic scholar
(is that as much of a contradiction as "Biblical scholar"?) claims
that the US will be destroyed in a tsunami as punishment for past
iniquities. Tsunamis are all the apocalyptic rage these days, in case
you haven't heard.
You have an interesting perspective. I agree with some of it,
particularly with the relatively "easy" rise of the US as an economic
power. Given the space and resources, prosperity was pretty much a
no-brainer. If you're a Jared Diamond fan you've probably read Guns,
Germs and Steel and realize the importance of geography and pure size
on the road to national success.
But I disagree that circumstance alone is responsible for the rise of
the United States.
The United States also originated (on a national level) the idea that
a country is strongest when its people are least encumbered by
government regulation and oppression. The Wild West was short-lived
but left an indelible impression upon the American national psyche.
Freedom and economic growth do go hand in hand.
I still think there is a connection. The situation selected the system
best suited to exploit it. I would not confuse freedom with a
capitalist economic system. They are not necessarily correlated. In a
more resource constrained environment a capitalist system would raise
interest commitments in the future with an insufficient means of
meeting them.
Case in point: China, which has grown freer as it has grown richer.
I would not call China free or freer. It's just a workshop where
criticism of the workshop owners or their bouncers (the gov) is not
tolerated. Google is blocked there. China would be Mussolini's ideal.
Corporations like the way China does things for the same reason Henry
Ford and Walt Disney admired Adolf Hitler. I would say that China is
an example of economic growth without freedom. In the last People's
Congress recently where was the free for all debate about Taiwan when
that law was passed thousands to zip? I think China's prosperity has
more to do with being outside the WTO/IMF/World Bank system for so
long. Just as Japan benefited from being outside the colonial system
of European powers for so long before Captain Perry. There was trade
before but strictly on their terms.
OTOH it would not matter how free or how capitalist China became they
just will not own 800-900 million cars at any time in the future.
Freedom and capitalism can not by themselves create prosperity just
because enough people have faith when the energy and materials for
that do not exist.
Free market (i.e. growth-oriented) financial systems tend to bring out
the best in people from a production standpoint. Freedom is a natural
result of prosperity, and vice-versa.
Depends. The San people of the Kalahari desert are not prosperous but
are more free than most westerners. They are threatened by contact
with the outside world and the overwhelmingly larger economic
entities. Nothing can stop that. They will be given capitalism whether
they want it or not and will just end up drunk and poor.
If anything, our downfall will be as a result of the recent distancing
of our modern reality from the freedom that made us what we are.
The Patriot Act is not entirely divorced from geopolitics and that is
not entirely divorced from resource wars especially for oil.
Heavier government regulation is the problem- it creates an
artificial onus on businesses which makes them less competitive.
China owes a lot to the overregulation of American business by the
socialist forces in the US, pricing us out of the world labor market.
There are laws in America that prevent you from being paid what
Chinese workers are paid and to prevent the fast and loose type of
safety regulations in coal mines as China has as witnessed by recent
mining accidents and textile factory fires. This makes for a
competitive economy. Do you really want the USA to go the China road
in economic competitiveness?
In other words, we are moving away from the status quo, the most
demonstrably potent economic system the world has ever seen. It's not
that we're not able to adapt to a new reality, it's that we are
inadvertently drifting away from the reality that has made us what we
are.
The new reality is a resource stressed world. I don't think a
capitalist economy can work in a resource and energy limited world. We
will have a receding economy with a system that must have more and
more capital. Interest commitments must be met. You invest $1000
and you want that $1000 to become $1100. The energy and materials that
the larger amount represents has to match. The most important
characteristic of capitalism is not the promised prosperity but GROWTH
and the need for growth. But growth can not continue forever. That was
the central point of my analysis. My conclusion was that Americans
will not realise this. They will not realise that different economic
systems suit different environments. They will hold onto the vision
splendid just as Norwegians in Greenland held onto their fish taboo.
--
epicurus1*at*obtuse*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 11:49:08 PM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:26:37 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another one
along in a minute.
A bus? How dare you compare the US to a big, lumbering, crowded,
air-polluting mass of aging technology which has the potential, if the
driver isn't paying attention, to accidentally bulldoze anything that
gets in its way and which may or may not show up when you need it.
What an absurd comparison!
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA.
It would take roughly half of the Pacific to submerge us, and then
there'd still be Denver. Go Broncos!
I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
Therion- I had no idea you were such an ardent futurist...
Actually, a fun read. I particularly like the nebulous reference to
"executive order 13666." Sounds so "end times."
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
Nothing is impossible, but I agree that even a financial crisis would
not cause an implosion. More likely than not the United States'
hegemony will be eclipsed over time by developing countries like China
or by the EU. In fact it's already happening. In a global economy
it's really a numbers game when you get right down to it, and China's
way ahead of anyone in terms of future buying power.
I think the US will become more like England- a once-great power that
is still a viable nation in every way but doesn't have the headache
that goes along with being the most powerful nation in the world.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
02 Apr 2005 02:48:53 AM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:49:08 GMT the ET form known as
Godfrey<none@provided.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:26:37 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another one
along in a minute.
A bus? How dare you compare the US to a big, lumbering, crowded,
air-polluting mass of aging technology which has the potential, if the
driver isn't paying attention, to accidentally bulldoze anything that
gets in its way and which may or may not show up when you need it.
What an absurd comparison!
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA.
It would take roughly half of the Pacific to submerge us, and then
there'd still be Denver. Go Broncos!
I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
Therion- I had no idea you were such an ardent futurist...
Actually, a fun read. I particularly like the nebulous reference to
"executive order 13666." Sounds so "end times."
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
Nothing is impossible, but I agree that even a financial crisis would
not cause an implosion. More likely than not the United States'
hegemony will be eclipsed over time by developing countries like China
or by the EU. In fact it's already happening. In a global economy
it's really a numbers game when you get right down to it, and China's
way ahead of anyone in terms of future buying power.
I think the US will become more like England- a once-great power that
is still a viable nation in every way but doesn't have the headache
that goes along with being the most powerful nation in the world.
I think resource competition will be the defining feature of the first
half of the 21st century. Somehow we will have to figure out how to
live in a permanently receding economy. Otherwise we will only have
more Iraqs, Afghanistans, and Irans and with nukes. We need a
proactive powerdown strategy which is something foreign to us
westerners with our growth culture. Powerdown is much more humane than
"last man standing".
I think by 2100 China will be dominant over the US and so will resume
its' historically normal position as the biggest power but only as the
first among pauper nations which by then will also include the west.
It is also a deglobalised world necessarily based on local economies.
Liebig's law of the minimum of integrated and isolated biological
systems will be echoed in human economies as local minimums reduce
carrying capacities further. The "last man standing" strategy of US
foreign policy can only delay but not prevent economic powerdown by
involuntary means.
--
epicurus1*at*obtuse*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
02 Apr 2005 11:28:35 AM |
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Meteorite Debris wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:49:08 GMT the ET form known as
Godfrey<none@provided.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:26:37 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation! Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another
one
along in a minute.
A bus? How dare you compare the US to a big, lumbering, crowded,
air-polluting mass of aging technology which has the potential, if
the
driver isn't paying attention, to accidentally bulldoze anything
that
gets in its way and which may or may not show up when you need it.
What an absurd comparison!
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario
that'd
bring about the end of the USA.
It would take roughly half of the Pacific to submerge us, and then
there'd still be Denver. Go Broncos!
I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
Therion- I had no idea you were such an ardent futurist...
Actually, a fun read. I particularly like the nebulous reference
to
"executive order 13666." Sounds so "end times."
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it -
prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not
even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
Nothing is impossible, but I agree that even a financial crisis
would
not cause an implosion. More likely than not the United States'
hegemony will be eclipsed over time by developing countries like
China
or by the EU. In fact it's already happening. In a global economy
it's really a numbers game when you get right down to it, and
China's
way ahead of anyone in terms of future buying power.
I think the US will become more like England- a once-great power
that
is still a viable nation in every way but doesn't have the headache
that goes along with being the most powerful nation in the world.
But England is the only Home Nation to not have a parliament :P
~Iain
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 11:34:35 AM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT in alt.atheism, Godfrey (Godfrey
<none@provided.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Good run? We have council houses older than your nation!
Seriously? A 350 year-old council house would be mental.
Still, I
shouldn't worry, for nations are like busses - there'll be another
one
along in a minute.
More seriously, it's difficult to imagine a realistic scenario that'd
bring about the end of the USA. I had a go at it once myself, but the
results weren't terribly satisfactory.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/onthefuture/A913015 if you want a laugh.
I rather doubt that a serious financial crisis would do it - prompted
say by a switch from USD to Euros as the oil settlement currency,
unless the US were no longer able to pay for oil, but maybe not even
then.
Thoughts, anyone?
European countries are capitalist but the U.S.A is ideologically
capitalist. So it might become polarised and go the same was as the
Soviet Union.
~Iain
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 11:03:55 AM |
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Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Funny how Nazi Germany wasn't sruck by a tsnunami but was defeated by
the effort of mankind.
Was there an Allah in the 1930s?
~Iain
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
02 Apr 2005 05:02:36 PM |
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On 1 Apr 2005 03:03:55 -0800, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Funny how Nazi Germany wasn't sruck by a tsnunami but was defeated by
the effort of mankind.
Was there an Allah in the 1930s?
There was; But him, Yhwh, Jesus, and a couple of others, were at a retreat in
the mountains, discussing theological questions, like "Where did I come from?",
and "when?", and "why?", so they were too busy to interfere in the biggest
conflict humanity has ever known.
Still: Maybe next time.
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
07 Apr 2005 02:24:42 PM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 1 Apr 2005 03:03:55 -0800, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Funny how Nazi Germany wasn't sruck by a tsnunami but was defeated
by
the effort of mankind.
Was there an Allah in the 1930s?
There was; But him, Yhwh, Jesus, and a couple of others, were at a
retreat in
the mountains, discussing theological questions, like "Where did I
come from?",
and "when?", and "why?", so they were too busy to interfere in the
biggest
conflict humanity has ever known.
They were stoned, running across the English countryside at 1 AM,
ducking under bridges, etc.
~Iain
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
07 Apr 2005 02:25:08 PM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 1 Apr 2005 03:03:55 -0800, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Funny how Nazi Germany wasn't sruck by a tsnunami but was defeated
by
the effort of mankind.
Was there an Allah in the 1930s?
There was; But him, Yhwh, Jesus, and a couple of others, were at a
retreat in
the mountains, discussing theological questions, like "Where did I
come from?",
and "when?", and "why?", so they were too busy to interfere in the
biggest
conflict humanity has ever known.
They were stoned, running across the English countryside at 1 AM,
ducking under bridges, etc.
~Iain
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 10:11:41 PM |
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On 1 Apr 2005 03:03:55 -0800, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
Funny how Nazi Germany wasn't sruck by a tsnunami but was defeated by
the effort of mankind.
Was there an Allah in the 1930s?
Of course, Iain. Allah is eternal, although sometimes he operates
under different names. In the 1930s it was "Roosevelt." And Churchill
was his prophet.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 04:09:15 PM |
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Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
AAHHHHH, I'm set to retire in 07. Say it ain't so!!!
--
Skydivers don't knock on death's door; they ring the bell and run
away... It really pisses him off.
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
03 Apr 2005 05:24:07 PM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:09:15 -0500, Tink <kjgrish@comcast.net> wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
AAHHHHH, I'm set to retire in 07. Say it ain't so!!!
"No." Stoney says stubbornly
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Godfrey" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
01 Apr 2005 10:10:43 PM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:09:15 -0500, Tink <kjgrish@comcast.net> wrote:
Godfrey wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
-Godfrey
AAHHHHH, I'm set to retire in 07. Say it ain't so!!!
Have you considered Paraguay?
-Godfrey
"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
02 Apr 2005 12:23:36 AM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT the ET form known as
Godfrey<none@provided.com> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
503 error message
--
epicurus1*at*optusnet*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
Sunday: A day given over by Americans to wishing that they themselves
were dead and in Heaven, and that their neighbors were dead and in
Hell.
-Mencken
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Well, looks like we're fucked. |
03 Apr 2005 04:52:03 PM |
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:49:35 GMT, Godfrey <none@provided.com> wrote:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248
Had a good run, though.
"Koran scholar: US will cease to exist in 2007"
The scholar was six years late.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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