| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Host" |
| Date: |
09 Apr 2006 06:18:40 PM |
| Object: |
Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
It's just a matter of time before someone is going to start preaching about
the virtues of having a little micro-chip implanted in our skull...
That way the "legals" will be able to keep doing things, while the
"illegals" will be screwed, and everybody can go on being fat, dumb, and
happy....
Too bad for me I guess.
I am skinny, enlightened, and very nervous.
The dangers of "accountability":
When those who want to be in charge are not accountable, then there will
never be accountability.
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith better think
again.
Those who place their faith in earthly government are already screwed.
Those who place their faith in the monetary system may be rich, but
spiritually they are poor (God has no respect of money).
If you think joining a certain "club" is going to make you stronger, you
best make sure what kind of club you're joining and what that club places
it's faith in too.
To be strong, really strong, one must know where to pull one's strength
from. Where to place one's faith.
Do not let the enticements of this world blind you. It is all a grand
illusion, the vanity game.
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of worship.
Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Greed places a price on all of God's creation (something which has no
price). Including me and you.
Empower yourself, or be a pawn.
It all depends on WHERE you place your faith.
It aint about color, it is about black and white.
The mexicans are not the problem, the system is.
But don't feel too bad, the system has never really worked, no matter how
much people think it has, no matter how much people put their faith in it.
The Mexicans are taking it back.
Poetic justice?
Maybe, but the people who are going to suffer aren't the ones who took all
the land a long time ago. Nope, the ones who are going to suffer are going
to be middle class and below, and, of course, the mexicans (who have no real
obligation to pay taxes by the way).
So as usual, the super rich get richer, and everyone middle class and below
is going to have to work harder to make less money due to higher inflation
rates.
See what happens when people put their faith in government?
No?
Just wait a little longer...
The time is now, don't be fooled.
Control your faith.
HOST!
.
|
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
09 Apr 2006 08:48:04 PM |
|
|
Host wrote:
<snip>
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith
better think again.
We have no faith in science. We know it works and has given us and you a
life that religion never did.
Had we used a faith based model we'd be living on a flat earth and the
population would be a lot smaller. Probably have a beter mail service
though, what with no other means of communication.
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require sacrifice.
<snip>
The Mexicans are taking it back.
Poetic justice?
Maybe, but the people who are going to suffer aren't the ones who
took all the land a long time ago. Nope, the ones who are going to
suffer are going to be middle class and below, and, of course, the
mexicans (who have no real obligation to pay taxes by the way).
They have the same obligation as anyone else who works here does. The
"illegal" ones just don't accrue the benefits.
Incidentally, if you start paying attention you will find that the middle
class is already suffering with longer hours, smaller homes and a medical
care burden that even has the doctors complaining about insurance costs.
.
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|
| User: "Host" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
09 Apr 2006 10:30:39 PM |
|
|
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith
better think again.
We have no faith in science. We know it works and has given us and you a
life that religion never did.
Who is "we"?
And science is nothing more than a "tool". Just like my hand is a "tool" of
sorts. It is only an extension of my mind, no? So too are science,
government, and money only tools, not ways of life.
Had we used a faith based model we'd be living on a flat earth and the
population would be a lot smaller. Probably have a beter mail service
though, what with no other means of communication.
I aint talking about a "faith based model". You sound like G.W. I am talking
about FAITH, period. And everyone has faith. Even you. Jump out there on a
limb and tell us what you put YOUR faith in. C'mon, you can do it, don't be
naive. Alas, I really don't expect an answer. I ask people this all the time
and all I get are blank stares...
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying you don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
<snip>
The Mexicans are taking it back.
Poetic justice?
Maybe, but the people who are going to suffer aren't the ones who
took all the land a long time ago. Nope, the ones who are going to
suffer are going to be middle class and below, and, of course, the
mexicans (who have no real obligation to pay taxes by the way).
They have the same obligation as anyone else who works here does. The
"illegal" ones just don't accrue the benefits.
The illegal ones are the ones I am refering to. And WHAT benefits? I can't
even get benefits.
Incidentally, if you start paying attention you will find that the middle
class is already suffering with longer hours, smaller homes and a medical
care burden that even has the doctors complaining about insurance costs.
And it is going to get a lot worse.
.
|
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
10 Apr 2006 01:23:39 AM |
|
|
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith
better think again.
We have no faith in science. We know it works and has given us and you a
life that religion never did.
Who is "we"?
Those of us reading from alt.atheism. Or didn't you know you
crossposted here?
And science is nothing more than a "tool". Just like my hand is a "tool" of
sorts. It is only an extension of my mind, no? So too are science,
government, and money only tools, not ways of life.
Agreed.
Had we used a faith based model we'd be living on a flat earth and the
population would be a lot smaller. Probably have a beter mail service
though, what with no other means of communication.
I aint talking about a "faith based model".
I aint. Hmm.
Anyway, he's referring to a faith based model of the world, or a
religious worldview, in short. Religion has done astoundingly poorly at
providing answers, while science has done somewhat better in a
considerably shorter period of time.
In case you're one of the "nonoverlapping magisteria" folk, I'll go on
to say that I believe they are indeed competing philosophies, competing
models of data collection. One seeks answers through revelation and
ancient texts (supposedly recording other revelations), while one
through empirical observation, repeated experimentation, and rational
deduction. I rather enjoy that faith has been backed into a corner, and
has to grasp at straws to stay relevant. Few faiths try to directly
counter scientific advancement any more. They stay to the sidelines
insisting that they can provide ephemeral things like "comfort" and
"meaning", things that humans can provide for themselves.
I say "enjoy" because I consider faith to be a disease. It takes hold
of the victim, and destroys curiosity. After all, why ask questions
when you know the answer is going to be "The gods did it"? Beyond that,
it is inherently intolerant. When you claim to have an absolute truth,
competing theories are heresy. If you've got a convenient devil figure,
you blame it on him, and in destroying the competition, you're doing
your god's work.
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
Really? What about the atheists? What do they have faith in?
Even you. Jump out there on a
limb and tell us what you put YOUR faith in. C'mon, you can do it, don't be
naive.
Is 'naive' the word you were looking for? 'Shy' would certainly fit,
but unexperienced?
Alas, I really don't expect an answer. I ask people this all the time
Why do you ask people this all the time?
and all I get are blank stares...
Perhaps it's because you ask people this all the time. I trust you at
least go through polite formalities such as "Hello" before popping the
question?
And, just on the side, if you get blank stares when you ask a lot of
people what they have faith in, don't you think your working assumption
that "Everyone has faith" might need revising? Statistically speaking,
if everybody were to have faith, blank stares should not be the norm.
Continuing to assume that your initial hypothesis is true just flies in
the face of any sort of scientific rigor.
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying you don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
It's pretty straightforward. Christians seem to think they're in an
epic battle between good and evil, and that any good has to come
through some kind of sacrifice.
We don't.
[]
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
10 Apr 2006 04:34:28 PM |
|
|
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
I missed the original response to my comments but at the beginning you said
not to put your faith in science and I responded that we do not.
Here, and not surprisingly you say you are talking about "FAITH, period."
You didn't bother to define your meaning of "faith" but it would seem you
use the idea of a faith in god the same way we use the idea of faith that
the light will turn on.
You don't seem to have thought about it much and the people who have would
never accept your ideas of faith, they would find it rather mundane.
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying you
don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that
compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
Again with the words "Compassion, truth, humility, meekness are hardly
worthy of worship and I've never found that I had to sacrifice anything to
exhibit them.
Well I have given up a few hundred hours for class and training time to
become an EMT and volunteer fire fighter. I've done the same for crisis
counseling for a couple groups and every once in a while I give up a bit of
sleep responding to a call but I hardly think of those as a sacrifice.
But you go ahaed and tell everybody how much you sacrificed to follow them.
It will, I am sure, make the right impression.
.
|
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| User: "Host" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
11 Apr 2006 09:20:29 AM |
|
|
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:EbA_f.57795$F_3.22599@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
I missed the original response to my comments but at the beginning you
said
not to put your faith in science and I responded that we do not.
Here, and not surprisingly you say you are talking about "FAITH, period."
You didn't bother to define your meaning of "faith" but it would seem you
use the idea of a faith in god the same way we use the idea of faith that
the light will turn on.
No that is not REALLY what I mean...
I do not know what a "faith based model" is. That is just some mumbo-jumbo
that Bush threw out there to make people think he has some kind of plan.
Faith:
NOUN:
1.. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person,
idea, or thing.
2.. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3.. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's
supporters.
4.. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure
belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The first definition is the best.
The second is not good at all. I believe people should know what they are
putting their faith into, not just some invisible man in the sky (which we
see a lot of in these groups).
Third def. is good in that context.
The fourth is good so long as one knows what GOD is.
Using the first Def., you can see how I see faith. This is why I say put
your faith in the values or virtues I listed before (virtues of "god"). I
have faith that if I treat folks with consideration they will be happy, if I
tell the truth, folks will appreciate that more than lies. Etc...
Unfortunately, there are still those who do not honor any of that. They lie
more than they tell truth, they treat others like crap just to make a
profit; everything has a price.
You don't seem to have thought about it much and the people who have
would
never accept your ideas of faith, they would find it rather mundane.
Maybe what I put my faith in does seem mundane, but, nevertheless, it works.
It does not have to be complicated, I do not expect folks to put their faith
into something they do not or cannot understand (the invisible man in the
sky...). That is unfair, and confusing at best.
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying you
don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that
compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
Again with the words "Compassion, truth, humility, meekness are hardly
worthy of worship and I've never found that I had to sacrifice anything to
exhibit them.
I can't judge you, but it sounds like you're ok anyway. All I am saying is
people need values/virtues. To me, that IS god, the ways of the "heavenly
father". When you pull these values and virtues into yourself you become
MORE than what you were before (Hence, the spirit of the heavenly father
came to earth in the flesh, and he was known as Jesus). Jesus sacrificed
himself to these ways, and whether you like him or not, he created a
movement big enough to last this long. He sacrificed himself so that others
may learn SOMETHING good from all of what he had to say.
I know there is a lot of crazy-bad disturbing things in the Bible, and folks
seem to concentrate on the negatives. I like to look at the positives.
"Treat others as I have treated you" is my favorite. A lot of folks like to
think that "god" makes earthquakes and floods and etc..., but not me. The
spirit of "god" only works through individuals, not mother nature. It only
works at the "human" level. Me and you so to speak.
Well I have given up a few hundred hours for class and training time to
become an EMT and volunteer fire fighter. I've done the same for crisis
counseling for a couple groups and every once in a while I give up a bit
of
sleep responding to a call but I hardly think of those as a sacrifice.
But you go ahaed and tell everybody how much you sacrificed to follow
them.
It will, I am sure, make the right impression.
Well, this isn't about "me". If I write something, usually it is to try to
enlighten people. I want folks to feel good about themselves, but for the
right reasons. I know it is easy for people to think that others are good if
they have lots of money, or are movie-stars or whatever. False idolization
is a huge deciever. And it affects our kids more than anyone.
This is why I say, be careful what you put your faith into. Teach your kids
some values first, then you can teach them how to run the microwave, or how
to make some money.
Me.
.
|
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
11 Apr 2006 07:12:58 PM |
|
|
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:EbA_f.57795$F_3.22599@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
I missed the original response to my comments but at the beginning
you said not to put your faith in science and I responded that we do
not.
Here, and not surprisingly you say you are talking about "FAITH,
period."
You didn't bother to define your meaning of "faith" but it would
seem you use the idea of a faith in god the same way we use the idea
of faith that the light will turn on.
No that is not REALLY what I mean...
I do not know what a "faith based model" is. That is just some
mumbo-jumbo that Bush threw out there to make people think he has
some kind of plan.
Faith:
NOUN:
1.. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a
person, idea, or thing.
2.. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3.. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with
one's supporters.
4.. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure
belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The first definition is the best.
The second is not good at all. I believe people should know what they
are putting their faith into, not just some invisible man in the sky
(which we see a lot of in these groups).
Third def. is good in that context.
The fourth is good so long as one knows what GOD is.
Using the first Def., you can see how I see faith. This is why I say
put your faith in the values or virtues I listed before (virtues of
"god"). I have faith that if I treat folks with consideration they
will be happy, if I tell the truth, folks will appreciate that more
than lies. Etc... Unfortunately, there are still those who do not
honor any of that. They lie more than they tell truth, they treat
others like crap just to make a profit; everything has a price.
If you use the first definition, then, as I said, you do not have the kind
of faith most religions demand.
You don't seem to have thought about it much and the people who
have would never accept your ideas of faith, they would find it
rather mundane.
Maybe what I put my faith in does seem mundane, but, nevertheless, it
works. It does not have to be complicated, I do not expect folks to
put their faith into something they do not or cannot understand (the
invisible man in the sky...). That is unfair, and confusing at best.
You claim exactly that, that you put your "faith" in "Hence, the spirit of
the heavenly father came to earth in the flesh, and he was known as Jesus
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require
sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying
you don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that
compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
Again with the words "Compassion, truth, humility, meekness are
hardly worthy of worship and I've never found that I had to
sacrifice anything to exhibit them.
I can't judge you, but it sounds like you're ok anyway. All I am
saying is people need values/virtues. To me, that IS god, the ways of
the "heavenly father". When you pull these values and virtues into
yourself you become MORE than what you were before (Hence, the spirit
of the heavenly father came to earth in the flesh, and he was known
as Jesus). Jesus sacrificed himself to these ways, and whether you
like him or not, he created a movement big enough to last this long.
He sacrificed himself so that others may learn SOMETHING good from
all of what he had to say.
I know there is a lot of crazy-bad disturbing things in the Bible,
and folks seem to concentrate on the negatives. I like to look at the
positives. "Treat others as I have treated you" is my favorite. A lot
of folks like to think that "god" makes earthquakes and floods and
etc..., but not me. The spirit of "god" only works through
individuals, not mother nature. It only works at the "human" level.
Me and you so to speak.
Then you don't folllow the bible, only pick and choose from it to decide
what you like.
Since your information about your god and your Jesus comes from that book
and that book tells you you can't do that, how can you claim to be following
your gods?
Have you bought a sword?
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you,
Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one
house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be
divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against
the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against
her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 22:36 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one
Well I have given up a few hundred hours for class and training time
to become an EMT and volunteer fire fighter. I've done the same for
crisis counseling for a couple groups and every once in a while I
give up a bit of sleep responding to a call but I hardly think of
those as a sacrifice.
But you go ahaed and tell everybody how much you sacrificed to
follow them. It will, I am sure, make the right impression.
Well, this isn't about "me". If I write something, usually it is to
try to enlighten people. I want folks to feel good about themselves,
but for the right reasons.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Host" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 09:34:36 AM |
|
|
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:eCX_f.58245$F_3.4187@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:EbA_f.57795$F_3.22599@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
I missed the original response to my comments but at the beginning
you said not to put your faith in science and I responded that we do
not.
Here, and not surprisingly you say you are talking about "FAITH,
period."
You didn't bother to define your meaning of "faith" but it would
seem you use the idea of a faith in god the same way we use the idea
of faith that the light will turn on.
No that is not REALLY what I mean...
I do not know what a "faith based model" is. That is just some
mumbo-jumbo that Bush threw out there to make people think he has
some kind of plan.
Faith:
NOUN:
1.. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a
person, idea, or thing.
2.. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3.. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with
one's supporters.
4.. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure
belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The first definition is the best.
The second is not good at all. I believe people should know what they
are putting their faith into, not just some invisible man in the sky
(which we see a lot of in these groups).
Third def. is good in that context.
The fourth is good so long as one knows what GOD is.
Using the first Def., you can see how I see faith. This is why I say
put your faith in the values or virtues I listed before (virtues of
"god"). I have faith that if I treat folks with consideration they
will be happy, if I tell the truth, folks will appreciate that more
than lies. Etc... Unfortunately, there are still those who do not
honor any of that. They lie more than they tell truth, they treat
others like crap just to make a profit; everything has a price.
If you use the first definition, then, as I said, you do not have the kind
of faith most religions demand.
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
Scientists still don't KNOW a lot about science, but they still profess
their faith in certain THEORIES. And believe me, a lot of science is steeped
in theory.
You don't seem to have thought about it much and the people who
have would never accept your ideas of faith, they would find it
rather mundane.
Maybe what I put my faith in does seem mundane, but, nevertheless, it
works. It does not have to be complicated, I do not expect folks to
put their faith into something they do not or cannot understand (the
invisible man in the sky...). That is unfair, and confusing at best.
You claim exactly that, that you put your "faith" in "Hence, the spirit of
the heavenly father came to earth in the flesh, and he was known as Jesus
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require
sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying
you don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that
compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
Again with the words "Compassion, truth, humility, meekness are
hardly worthy of worship and I've never found that I had to
sacrifice anything to exhibit them.
I can't judge you, but it sounds like you're ok anyway. All I am
saying is people need values/virtues. To me, that IS god, the ways of
the "heavenly father". When you pull these values and virtues into
yourself you become MORE than what you were before (Hence, the spirit
of the heavenly father came to earth in the flesh, and he was known
as Jesus). Jesus sacrificed himself to these ways, and whether you
like him or not, he created a movement big enough to last this long.
He sacrificed himself so that others may learn SOMETHING good from
all of what he had to say.
I know there is a lot of crazy-bad disturbing things in the Bible,
and folks seem to concentrate on the negatives. I like to look at the
positives. "Treat others as I have treated you" is my favorite. A lot
of folks like to think that "god" makes earthquakes and floods and
etc..., but not me. The spirit of "god" only works through
individuals, not mother nature. It only works at the "human" level.
Me and you so to speak.
Then you don't folllow the bible, only pick and choose from it to decide
what you like.
Since your information about your god and your Jesus comes from that book
and that book tells you you can't do that, how can you claim to be
following
your gods?
Have you bought a sword?
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you,
Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one
house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall
be
divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother
against
the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law
against
her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 22:36 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one
Dude there is a lot of symobolism in the Bible.
Sword represents the word of God, or the law of God. The double edge sword.
If Jesus tells everyone the way to do things, do you think EVERYONE is going
to agree? That is why when he spoke the "word of God" He knew there were
going to be those who accepted it, and those who didn't. Setting father
against son, mother against daughter, etc... In other words, divisions.
He also said he came to start a fire and see how far it spreads. Now did he
literally start a fire?
He started a fire in everyones way of thinking, but that's about it.
Well I have given up a few hundred hours for class and training time
to become an EMT and volunteer fire fighter. I've done the same for
crisis counseling for a couple groups and every once in a while I
give up a bit of sleep responding to a call but I hardly think of
those as a sacrifice.
But you go ahaed and tell everybody how much you sacrificed to
follow them. It will, I am sure, make the right impression.
Well, this isn't about "me". If I write something, usually it is to
try to enlighten people. I want folks to feel good about themselves,
but for the right reasons.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 10:59:11 AM |
|
|
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 09:07:00 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
--
.
|
|
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| User: "Host" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 09:53:56 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
--
Nothing like jumping into my post after it has been snipped to death.
Must be tough on you being so damned stupid. I'll do ya a favor and pray for
your dumb *****.
DONE!
Lucky you,
HOST!
.
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
13 Apr 2006 11:52:51 AM |
|
|
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:9e6d0$443dbb1e$4088ca67$781@EVERESTKC.NET...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
--
Nothing like jumping into my post after it has been snipped to death.
Must be tough on you being so damned stupid. I'll do ya a favor and pray
for
your dumb *****.
DONE!
Lucky you,
HOST!
Out of curiousity, were you born an ***** or is this something you've had
to work on?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
13 Apr 2006 06:54:42 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:52:51 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a7dqlFqjlckU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:9e6d0$443dbb1e$4088ca67$781@EVERESTKC.NET...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
--
Nothing like jumping into my post after it has been snipped to death.
Must be tough on you being so damned stupid. I'll do ya a favor and pray
for
your dumb *****.
DONE!
Lucky you,
HOST!
Out of curiousity, were you born an ***** or is this something you've had
to work on?
It appears to be an inborn natural talent.
Or perhaps I should have written "inbred"?
--
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 10:48:38 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:53:56 -0500, "Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote:
- Refer: <9e6d0$443dbb1e$4088ca67$781@EVERESTKC.NET>
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
--
Nothing like jumping into my post after it has been snipped to death.
Must be tough on you being so damned stupid. I'll do ya a favor and pray for
your dumb *****.
DONE!
Lucky you,
HOST!
I have a heart condition, and am able to sue you for malicious intent,
according to the latest findings.
But I note that you are not intending to supplicate to your mythical
sky-pixie for my well-being, but solely that of my equally
non-existent mute donkey, or onager.
Truly Bizarre...
Not content with conversing to a figment of your imagination, you must
invent further cartoon characters to supplement your meager intellect.
I wish you luck in your recovery from profound mental illness.
Let me know when it starts.
--
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
13 Apr 2006 11:39:16 AM |
|
|
Previously, on alt.atheism, Host in episode
<9e6d0$443dbb1e$4088ca67$781@EVERESTKC.NET>...
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
--
Nothing like jumping into my post after it has been snipped to death. Must
be tough on you being so damned stupid. I'll do ya a favor and pray for
your dumb *****.
DONE!
Lucky you,
HOST!
Whaddya trying to do? Kill us???
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
13 Apr 2006 11:52:08 AM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
What the?!? Sounds nutty.
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
Ah, good point.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
.
|
|
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
13 Apr 2006 06:56:15 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:52:08 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a7dpaFs2p1iU1@individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mdcr321os7148067csohen843kqmo53k64@4ax.com...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:59:11 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4a4ma2Fqc9tmU1@individual.net>
"Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote in message
news:191c6$443d0dd9$4088ca67$4458@EVERESTKC.NET...
snip
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
And atheists are supposed to care because......................?
Host sees blind faith in an imaginary Jew as currying favour with an
imaginary sky-pixie who he thinks has promised him an imaginary
after-life.
What the?!? Sounds nutty.
It is nutty.
(I think my mentioning "curry" put you off a bit!)
We should care because this is clearly a profound insanity, and he may
pose a danger to kiddies.
Ah, good point.
One too often neglected in the venerable sport of loony-teasing.
--
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 12:23:25 PM |
|
|
Host wrote:
If you use the first definition, then, as I said, you do not have
the kind of faith most religions demand.
Which I said is unfair to a degree. But blind faith in Jesus is still
counted as good in the eyes of the Lord.
Scientists still don't KNOW a lot about science, but they still
profess their faith in certain THEORIES. And believe me, a lot of
science is steeped in theory.
As I said before, your idea of faith is not that of most christians.
If it was then there would be no christianity. The faith science has in a
theory comes only after rigorous thought, study and testing. It will be
abandoned as soon as it is falsified.
Your comment that "a lot of science is steeped in theory." is either an
attempt at humor, complete ignorance of science or just plain stupid. I tend
towards the latter belief.
ALL science is based on theory and ALL science spends a fair about of time
trying to show that their theories are wrong.
Then you don't folllow the bible, only pick and choose from it to
decide what you like.
Since your information about your god and your Jesus comes from that
book and that book tells you you can't do that, how can you claim to
be following your gods?
Have you bought a sword?
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I
came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell
you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be
five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the
father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against
the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the
daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 22:36 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy
one
Dude there is a lot of symobolism in the Bible.
Sword represents the word of God, or the law of God. The double edge
sword. If Jesus tells everyone the way to do things, do you think
EVERYONE is going to agree? That is why when he spoke the "word of
God" He knew there were going to be those who accepted it, and those
who didn't. Setting father against son, mother against daughter,
etc... In other words, divisions.
He also said he came to start a fire and see how far it spreads. Now
did he literally start a fire?
Where exactly did he say he was going to start a fire? He is alleged to have
spoken about casting people into the existing fire of hell but that is not
starting a fire.
He started a fire in everyones way of thinking, but that's about it.
There is nothing in the gospels or in the entire NT that is original with
Christ.
The only people who started fires were those who came after and spun what he
said.
.
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| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
11 Apr 2006 06:16:04 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:20:29 -0500, "Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:EbA_f.57795$F_3.22599@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
I missed the original response to my comments but at the beginning you
said
not to put your faith in science and I responded that we do not.
Here, and not surprisingly you say you are talking about "FAITH, period."
You didn't bother to define your meaning of "faith" but it would seem you
use the idea of a faith in god the same way we use the idea of faith that
the light will turn on.
No that is not REALLY what I mean...
I do not know what a "faith based model" is. That is just some mumbo-jumbo
that Bush threw out there to make people think he has some kind of plan.
Faith:
NOUN:
1.. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person,
idea, or thing.
2.. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3.. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's
supporters.
4.. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure
belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The first definition is the best.
The second is not good at all. I believe people should know what they are
putting their faith into, not just some invisible man in the sky (which we
see a lot of in these groups).
Third def. is good in that context.
The fourth is good so long as one knows what GOD is.
Using the first Def., you can see how I see faith. This is why I say put
your faith in the values or virtues I listed before (virtues of "god"). I
have faith that if I treat folks with consideration they will be happy, if I
tell the truth, folks will appreciate that more than lies. Etc...
Unfortunately, there are still those who do not honor any of that. They lie
more than they tell truth, they treat others like crap just to make a
profit; everything has a price.
You don't seem to have thought about it much and the people who have
would
never accept your ideas of faith, they would find it rather mundane.
Maybe what I put my faith in does seem mundane, but, nevertheless, it works.
It does not have to be complicated, I do not expect folks to put their faith
into something they do not or cannot understand (the invisible man in the
sky...). That is unfair, and confusing at best.
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying you
don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that
compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
Again with the words "Compassion, truth, humility, meekness are hardly
worthy of worship and I've never found that I had to sacrifice anything to
exhibit them.
I can't judge you, but it sounds like you're ok anyway. All I am saying is
people need values/virtues. To me, that IS god, the ways of the "heavenly
father". When you pull these values and virtues into yourself you become
MORE than what you were before (Hence, the spirit of the heavenly father
came to earth in the flesh, and he was known as Jesus). Jesus sacrificed
himself to these ways, and whether you like him or not, he created a
movement big enough to last this long. He sacrificed himself so that others
may learn SOMETHING good from all of what he had to say.
I know there is a lot of crazy-bad disturbing things in the Bible, and folks
seem to concentrate on the negatives. I like to look at the positives.
"Treat others as I have treated you" is my favorite. A lot of folks like to
think that "god" makes earthquakes and floods and etc..., but not me. The
spirit of "god" only works through individuals, not mother nature. It only
works at the "human" level. Me and you so to speak.
Hmm, what you are talking about is the way people tend to behave
socially - a genetic trait. It isn't a trait of god to deal with
people that way, nor anything magical. It's what works for humans to
survive as a group. Another genetic trait is to take advantage of
those social instincts - in other words, lying and stealing.
Read Richard Dawkins 'The Selfish Gene' - it does a good job of
explaining how morality is genetically motivated. You will find out
that usually you need a certain percentage of both 'good' members and
'bad' members of a group to keep it sustainable.
Well I have given up a few hundred hours for class and training time to
become an EMT and volunteer fire fighter. I've done the same for crisis
counseling for a couple groups and every once in a while I give up a bit
of
sleep responding to a call but I hardly think of those as a sacrifice.
But you go ahaed and tell everybody how much you sacrificed to follow
them.
It will, I am sure, make the right impression.
Well, this isn't about "me". If I write something, usually it is to try to
enlighten people. I want folks to feel good about themselves, but for the
right reasons. I know it is easy for people to think that others are good if
they have lots of money, or are movie-stars or whatever. False idolization
is a huge deciever. And it affects our kids more than anyone.
This is what I dispise about theists. The total lack of humility in
them insisting on telling the rest of the world how to be
'enlightened' to supposedly to make them feel good.
Here's a clue.
You don't know what you are talking about. You aren't enlightening
anyone. And you aren't making anyone other than yourself feel good.
You are just coming off as annoying and pompous.
This is why I say, be careful what you put your faith into. Teach your kids
some values first, then you can teach them how to run the microwave, or how
to make some money.
How about the first and most important value. That being honest to
yourself is the most important thing above all. Without that,
anything else is necessarily corrupt.
Science is the purest method of finding truth. It states that no fact
cannot be found to be false through evidence. That makes it the exact
opposite of faith, which holds that it is valuable to consider
something is true, no matter what the evidence that it is not.
Now you tell me which is more moral.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Host" |
|
| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
12 Apr 2006 10:52:46 AM |
|
|
"Kate " <cobalt@newscene.com> wrote in message
news:4447343e.145869250@news-west.newscene.com...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:20:29 -0500, "Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:EbA_f.57795$F_3.22599@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
Host wrote:
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
You sound like G.W. I am talking about FAITH, period.
Ah, FAITH. Here was me thinking you were talking about faith.
And everyone has faith.
I missed the original response to my comments but at the beginning you
said
not to put your faith in science and I responded that we do not.
Here, and not surprisingly you say you are talking about "FAITH,
period."
You didn't bother to define your meaning of "faith" but it would seem
you
use the idea of a faith in god the same way we use the idea of faith
that
the light will turn on.
No that is not REALLY what I mean...
I do not know what a "faith based model" is. That is just some
mumbo-jumbo
that Bush threw out there to make people think he has some kind of plan.
Faith:
NOUN:
1.. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a
person,
idea, or thing.
2.. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3.. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's
supporters.
4.. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure
belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
The first definition is the best.
The second is not good at all. I believe people should know what they are
putting their faith into, not just some invisible man in the sky (which
we
see a lot of in these groups).
Third def. is good in that context.
The fourth is good so long as one knows what GOD is.
Using the first Def., you can see how I see faith. This is why I say put
your faith in the values or virtues I listed before (virtues of "god"). I
have faith that if I treat folks with consideration they will be happy,
if I
tell the truth, folks will appreciate that more than lies. Etc...
Unfortunately, there are still those who do not honor any of that. They
lie
more than they tell truth, they treat others like crap just to make a
profit; everything has a price.
You don't seem to have thought about it much and the people who have
would
never accept your ideas of faith, they would find it rather mundane.
Maybe what I put my faith in does seem mundane, but, nevertheless, it
works.
It does not have to be complicated, I do not expect folks to put their
faith
into something they do not or cannot understand (the invisible man in the
sky...). That is unfair, and confusing at best.
<snip>
Compassion, truth, humility, meekness; these are all worthy of
worship. Sacrifice yourself to these virtues.
Sounds like a typical christian to think that these require
sacrifice.
And (before I reply) what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying
you
don't
understand the concept of sacrifice? Or do you just believe that
compassion,
truth, etc are all worthless virtues?
Again with the words "Compassion, truth, humility, meekness are hardly
worthy of worship and I've never found that I had to sacrifice anything
to
exhibit them.
I can't judge you, but it sounds like you're ok anyway. All I am saying
is
people need values/virtues. To me, that IS god, the ways of the "heavenly
father". When you pull these values and virtues into yourself you become
MORE than what you were before (Hence, the spirit of the heavenly father
came to earth in the flesh, and he was known as Jesus). Jesus sacrificed
himself to these ways, and whether you like him or not, he created a
movement big enough to last this long. He sacrificed himself so that
others
may learn SOMETHING good from all of what he had to say.
I know there is a lot of crazy-bad disturbing things in the Bible, and
folks
seem to concentrate on the negatives. I like to look at the positives.
"Treat others as I have treated you" is my favorite. A lot of folks like
to
think that "god" makes earthquakes and floods and etc..., but not me. The
spirit of "god" only works through individuals, not mother nature. It
only
works at the "human" level. Me and you so to speak.
Hmm, what you are talking about is the way people tend to behave
socially - a genetic trait. It isn't a trait of god to deal with
people that way, nor anything magical. It's what works for humans to
survive as a group. Another genetic trait is to take advantage of
those social instincts - in other words, lying and stealing.
Social skill are NOT a genetic trait. People learn social skills through
interaction with other people. We are not born saying, "thank you", or, "May
I have another?"
I have a feeling, though, that you are not getting the meaning of the book
across. Is he saying that lying is just built into our genetic code? He is
saying it is normal to take advantage of others by lying and stealing?
Sad, I was just thinking about that new song out there, don't know who did
it, but it goes like,
"You and me baby, we aint nothing but animals, so let's do it like they do
on the Discovery channel..."
This is a popular view now-a-days. We aint nothing but animals.
Existentialism to the nth degree.
Maybe I should go get me a shotgun and rob a few banks like an ANIMAL!
GRRRRRRRROWWWWLLLLLLL, KILL 'EM ALL!!!!!! Who cares how it affects everyone
else, all I care about is ME!
Sheesh. Crackin me up.
Read Richard Dawkins 'The Selfish Gene' - it does a good job of
explaining how morality is genetically motivated. You will find out
that usually you need a certain percentage of both 'good' members and
'bad' members of a group to keep it sustainable.
Morality is SOCIALLY motivated. All you have to do is look at all the
different societies out there, then look at what each of those societies
claims to be moral. You are going to get a lot of different models of
morality.
Unfortunately though, I have not read the guy's book, so I don't really want
to argue about something I haven't read.
Well I have given up a few hundred hours for class and training time to
become an EMT and volunteer fire fighter. I've done the same for crisis
counseling for a couple groups and every once in a while I give up a
bit
of
sleep responding to a call but I hardly think of those as a sacrifice.
But you go ahaed and tell everybody how much you sacrificed to follow
them.
It will, I am sure, make the right impression.
Well, this isn't about "me". If I write something, usually it is to try
to
enlighten people. I want folks to feel good about themselves, but for the
right reasons. I know it is easy for people to think that others are good
if
they have lots of money, or are movie-stars or whatever. False
idolization
is a huge deciever. And it affects our kids more than anyone.
This is what I dispise about theists. The total lack of humility in
them insisting on telling the rest of the world how to be
'enlightened' to supposedly to make them feel good.
Got news for ya Kate, it takes a LOT of humilty to stand up and stick my
neck out saying what I think is right. Especially in the face of so much
opposition.
Here's a clue.
You don't know what you are talking about. You aren't enlightening
anyone. And you aren't making anyone other than yourself feel good.
You are just coming off as annoying and pompous.
Here is another clue:
You don't know me at ALL.
And if you really want to trade labels, I think it ironic that Atheists have
a newsgroup to talk about something THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN IN THE FIRST
PLACE!!!!! If you guys don't believe in God or faith, then what is the
point? Talk about being honest with yourself...
That would be like me starting a Bigfoot newgroup so I can talk about how
Sasquatch DOESN'T exist. Oh boy, fun fun fun...and not to mention a HUGE
waste of time.
This is why I say, be careful what you put your faith into. Teach your
kids
some values first, then you can teach them how to run the microwave, or
how
to make some money.
How about the first and most important value. That being honest to
yourself is the most important thing above all. Without that,
anything else is necessarily corrupt.
Science is the purest method of finding truth. It states that no fact
cannot be found to be false through evidence. That makes it the exact
opposite of faith, which holds that it is valuable to consider
something is true, no matter what the evidence that it is not.
You didn't read the meat of my post did you?
We could argue about this all day long.
Here is one for ya: Do Black Holes REALLY exist? Prove it. Prove it to a T.
And I don't wanna hear the THEORIES on it. I took Astronomy courses in
college, I know ALL ABOUT the theories: "Well based on THIS THEORY we
believe that the universe started 400 blah blah Billion years ago..."
As for me, I think black holes DO exist, but proof? Actual physically
tangible proof? Am I stupid for believing something based only on a THEORY
and not facts?
And that is just one example...
It is just like that movie Contact,
"Do you love your father?
"Yes."
"Prove it."
Now you tell me which is more moral.
I don't know how this turned into a morality debate, but I know one thing:
Science does nothing to teach anyone ANYTHING about morals or morality.
Science is nothing more than a tool to study facts, and to find out how
mother nature works, in a sense. Science may help us to understand what
created the morals, but it does nothing to TEACH us morals. Social
interaction does that.
Have a good day.
Host
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
09 Apr 2006 11:59:44 PM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Host in episode
<1dee$4439cf3d$4088ca67$19859@EVERESTKC.NET>...
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith. Those
who think that science is a good place to put their faith better think
again.
We have no faith in science. We know it works and has given us and you a
life that religion never did.
Who is "we"?
Well, this "we" over here is a bunch of atheists who have no faith. Period.
Or are you too stupid to know where you're posting?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Host" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
11 Apr 2006 08:12:59 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> opened his mouth and inserted
foot in message news:2sGdne78dsPde6TZnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@megapath.net...
Previously, on alt.atheism, Host in episode
<1dee$4439cf3d$4088ca67$19859@EVERESTKC.NET>...
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith. Those
who think that science is a good place to put their faith better
think
again.
We have no faith in science. We know it works and has given us and you
a
life that religion never did.
Who is "we"?
Well, this "we" over here is a bunch of atheists who have no faith.
Period.
Or are you too stupid to know where you're posting?
Ohhh, I'm sorry, I didn't know Mike Painter represented the whole group.
Next time you don't have to reply, I'll just wait for Mike.
Thanks for pointing that out Mark.
Host.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
11 Apr 2006 12:00:25 PM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Host in episode
<4024b$443ba93a$4088ca67$30443@EVERESTKC.NET>...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> opened his mouth and inserted
foot in message news:2sGdne78dsPde6TZnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@megapath.net...
Previously, on alt.atheism, Host in episode
<1dee$4439cf3d$4088ca67$19859@EVERESTKC.NET>...
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:oPi_f.45919$_S7.3869@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Host wrote:
<snip>
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith
better
think
again.
We have no faith in science. We know it works and has given us and
you
a
life that religion never did.
Who is "we"?
Well, this "we" over here is a bunch of atheists who have no faith.
Period.
Or are you too stupid to know where you're posting?
Ohhh, I'm sorry, I didn't know Mike Painter represented the whole group.
Next time you don't have to reply, I'll just wait for Mike. Thanks for
pointing that out Mark.
What part of "atheism" in "alt.atheism" is so hard to understand?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
10 Apr 2006 12:28:56 AM |
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Host wrote:
"Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals...."
Actually, we can. Make it a crime to hire illegals and fully enforce
the law. Let CEOs be perpwalked out of their places of business if they
allow the hiring of illegals.
If H Lee Scott can be frogmarched out of the headquarters, I think it'd
be a great first step at getting illegals out of the United States.
But, it's only one step. We need to enforce it nationwide.
I'm sure that the additional law enforcement officers would be a boon to
our economy. :-)
<snip idiocy>
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "Torture has never been a reliable means of *
* extracting information.... One wonders why it *
* is still practiced." --Jean-Luc Picard *
****************************************************
--
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
09 Apr 2006 09:58:21 PM |
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Host wrote:
Empower yourself, or be a pawn.
Aaah, the delicious irony...
It all depends on WHERE you place your faith.
So why do you place yours in an imaginary skydaddy that not only cannot
possibly exist in any form close to that desribed in the wholly babble, but
would be the supreme sadist of the universe if it would?
At least science _works._ I'm no atheist, but if I have to choose between
the jebus cult and atheism, count me with them ebil unbelievers.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
Why I am not a christian:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus/nojebus
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
10 Apr 2006 02:11:10 AM |
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Host wrote:
snip
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith better think
again.
Those who don't realize alt.atheism hasn't heard this "faith in
science" crap about 2,987,345,095,001 times should have microchips
implanted to ensure they never approach another keyboard.
To be strong, really strong, one must know where to pull one's strength
from. Where to place one's faith.
To be really strong, one must know that strength from anywhere else but
within is a mirage. And to have faith in what can be proven effective.
snip
Two hands working do more than a thousand praying. Gods are irrelevent
and useless. To survive the coming upheval, remember one thing.
Compassion, truth and humility are good. But do not be meek. Be strong.
Demonstrate your humanity. You will only be granted the rights you
demand to take. Rely on your own strength, and the strength of the ones
you care about. Ask hard questions, and prepare for hard answers. In
dark times, the "truth" is not often something you enjoy hearing.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Pace Car Driver
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
10 Apr 2006 04:14:09 AM |
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On 10 Apr 2006 00:11:10 -0700, wrote:
- Refer: <1144653070.657439.160360@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Host wrote:
snip
Folks out there need to understand where to place their faith.
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith better think
again.
Those who don't realize alt.atheism hasn't heard this "faith in
science" crap about 2,987,345,095,001 times should have microchips
implanted to ensure they never approach another keyboard.
I think that "Host's" problem is that he need some implants REMOVED!
One of his legion of problems, at least.
To be strong, really strong, one must know where to pull one's strength
from. Where to place one's faith.
I'm surprised that you did not tell him exactly where "to place one's
faith"!!
Very restrained of you. ;)
To be really strong, one must know that strength from anywhere else but
within is a mirage. And to have faith in what can be proven effective.
snip
Two hands working do more than a thousand praying. Gods are irrelevent
and useless. To survive the coming upheval, remember one thing.
Compassion, truth and humility are good. But do not be meek. Be strong.
Demonstrate your humanity. You will only be granted the rights you
demand to take. Rely on your own strength, and the strength of the ones
you care about. Ask hard questions, and prepare for hard answers. In
dark times, the "truth" is not often something you enjoy hearing.
--
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
09 Apr 2006 11:47:13 PM |
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On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:18:40 -0500, "Host" <Host@myspace.com> wrote:
- Refer: <4b5a7$4439942e$4088ca67$28659@EVERESTKC.NET>
:
Those who think that science is a good place to put their faith better think
again.
:
I don't know of anyone who has "faith" in science.
"Trust", yes.
"Faith", no.
1/10. Host must try harder.
--
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Well since we can't get rid of all the illegals.... |
09 Apr 2006 11:59:00 PM |
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