On 8 Oct 2006 20:11:40 -0700, "apostatepat" <apostate_yyhh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Uncle Clover wrote:

On 7 Oct 2006 17:54:42 -0700, "apostatepat" <apostate_yyhh@yahoo.com> wrote:

*nemo* wrote:

In article <1160193186.314054.309700@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
"apostatepat" <apostate_yyhh@yahoo.com> wrote:

1: "Joe" does not exist.

2: "Joe" is born.

3: "Joe" dies.

4: "Jane" is born.

5: "Jane" dies.

... ad infinitum.

It is an untestable possibility, but maybe there isn't "nothing" for
each of us after we die... suppose life is a set of soulless
reincarnations; no connection between rounds of consciousness. Y think?

Our matter will be recycled, regardless of how long we try to hold it in
stasis in the ground. Worst case, the Earth as a whole will be vaporized
by the red giant Sun and its atoms strewn to the cosmos.

If there is shorter term "reincarnation" of lives with no connection or
transfer of memory between rounds, how is that different from each
person being a unique, totally new being?

There is no difference. There will be a unique, totally new being. The
idea is more "what will it be like for us?" Most of us imagine
'complete nothingness'.... but will that be the actual experience? It
can be argued that since oblivion cannot be experienced, the only form
of experience is consciousness. Therefore, there may never be any
"rest" after we die. It may be a cycle that repeats itself endlessly as
long as life is available.

What you're describing is less a cycle than a straight-shot burn-through. For
"re"-incarnation to occur, there would have to be some sort of essence that goes
from a deceased individual into a new living one.

What we are is the universe, one single "being" of sorts, a single awareness
that is at the base of everyone's experience. That basic, fundamental awareness
should be the same for all creatures great and small, but the consciousness -
not the same thing - would be dependant upon the traits one inherits and the
environment in which one matures. Awareness is independant of personality or
"character" - and it, to me, is probably the only true "thing" in the universe.
--

This description seems more suitable than the word "reincarnation". If
awareness is a straight-shot burn through, could this have potential of
changing our mental outlook do you think?

It could, I suppose. But most people aren't going to see it in those terms.
For humans in general, it seems we either must believe we each individually are
very significant (in either a good or a bad way) or that we each individually
are nothing. We're so ego-driven, we wonder if the thought patterns that we use
to identify our bodies will continue occurring after we die. Of course they
won't, that's why they're identified with the body. Body death = thought
pattern death.

The notion that there both is and isn't some sort of "continued existence"
beyond the lifetime of one individual body is a bit hard to grasp, but that's
how I see it. We're trapped by our own self-characterizations into believing
that the "I" of "I am" is distinctly different from all other "I"s. We mistake
our surface personality for the core of our existence. "I" is just "I".
Whenever I try to pin down what I'm referring to when I think of "I", it all
ends up reducing to a center of awareness no bigger than a single geometric
point and every bit as abstractly real. I can conceptualize what existence must
be like for a geometric point because that is how I sense "me" when I quiet down
and pay attention. At some point, I realized my own individual character traits
were just superficial details somehow "attached" to this single geometric point,
a "mask" of sorts to be worn by the universe at large.

That, to me, is what we all are - "masks" that the universe wears while it talks
to itself in order that something may "exist". There is no reincarnation
because what we _truly_ are at our most fundamental level - never really dies in
the first place.

But then you're treading into territory that's easily frought with
misunderstanding, the lingo gets very tricky at this point. The words both mean
what they say and they don't mean what they say - the universe is a puzzle, we
are mysteries. Some of us spend so much time trying to solve the puzzle that we
fail to step back and enjoy the mystery of it all, and in the end, we can never
really solve the puzzle anyway.

Oy, there I've gone and gotten all "metaphysical" again. Sorry, I'll move
along, then. ;-)

Most of us assume that if
there are no God(s), then this is It... no felt sequel, nothing.
However as one awareness "being", maybe what is felt instead is
unending existence... being alive in whatever creaturely shape we take
form.

Yup. :-)
--

L8r,
Uncle Clover

************************************************

The true mark of a civilized society is that its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.

************************************************

On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:43:03 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:14:04 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <7pdoi2tgjpm2uel4o43l3v6163nm7sepff@4ax.com>

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:03:34 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:35:55 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <r75mi2plpkdp8vrqeb6u4vp4kdge6lqpfq@4ax.com>

On 6 Oct 2006 20:53:06 -0700, "apostatepat" <apostate_yyhh@yahoo.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

1: "Joe" does not exist.

2: "Joe" is born.

3: "Joe" dies.

4: "Jane" is born.

5: "Jane" dies.

... ad infinitum.

It is an untestable possibility, but maybe there isn't "nothing" for
each of us after we die... suppose life is a set of soulless
reincarnations; no connection between rounds of consciousness. Y think?

Yeah, and if you've got pixie dust you're most of the way to NeverNever
Land.

I've got some pixie dust in this little bag.

It took ages to find, kill and grind enough pixies to fill it.
Their little high-pitched screams, as the oxy torch fried them, set
the dog off something chronic!

They wanted a steak in the operation.

Pavlov must have rung a Tinkerbell.

The belle of the ball....