What is a liberal?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Xomicron"
Date: 31 Mar 2004 09:01:27 PM
Object: What is a liberal?
What is a liberal?
A liberal is a person who sees a fourteen-year-old girl performing live sex
acts onstage and wonders if she's being paid the minimum wage.
- Unknown
A liberal is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.
- Adlai Stevenson
A liberal is a person whose interests aren't at stake at the moment.
- Willis Player
A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.
- Robert Frost
A liberal is a man who is willing to spend somebody else's money.
- Carter Glass
A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet.
- Frank Rizzo
What the liberal really wants is to bring about change which will not
in any way endanger his position.
- Stokely Carmichael
The liberal...is better at inventing reforms than in insuring that
they are well and honestly administered.
- John Kenneth Galbraith
The liberal is accustomed to appearing radical to conservatives,
counter-revolutionary to radicals, and as a fink to activists of all
persuasions.
- Harry S. Ashmore
.

User: "Bush 2004"

Title: $900 Billion 31 Mar 2004 11:15:24 PM
BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."
FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."
http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/archives/week_2004_03_07.html
.
User: "Arizona Bushwhacker"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 31 Mar 2004 11:14:26 PM
$900 billion?
What's that? The amount Bush plans to underestimate
his next spending bill by so it will pass congress. Then
he will spring the real cost of that bill on America.
"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com...


BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."

http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/archives/week_2004_03_07.html






.

User: "E.E.Bud Keith"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 01 Apr 2004 12:58:23 AM
"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com...


BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."

If you think that rolling back tax cuts on the so called rich will cover the
cost of health issues you are dumber then a box of rocks.
Furthermore it is impossible to have and honest debate with anyone who
avoids facts as if they were swarming bees.


http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/archives/week_2004_03_07.html






.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 01 Apr 2004 07:23:24 AM
"E.E.Bud Keith" <budk101@comcast.net> wrote

If you think that rolling back tax cuts on the so called
rich will cover the cost of health issues you are dumber
then a box of rocks.

If you think tax give-aways to the rich are going to cover
the cost of health issues you are the intellectual inferior of
someone "dumber than a box of rocks."

Furthermore it is impossible to have and honest debate with
anyone who avoids facts as if they were swarming bees.

I know, but you can't make the Republicans be honest. Not even
to save their own lives.
.


User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 01 Apr 2004 07:47:49 AM
"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>...

BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."

FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars. Amazingly he is doing this while at
the same time complaining that Bush is not balancing the budget. what
a joke. John Kerry is a two faced rich liberal liar. I don't have
anything against liberals. They have many good ideas but I hate two
faced liars. Its a shame that the Democratic Party is planning to
nominate a two faced liberal liar like John Kerry. I guess I will
have to vote Republican this year.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 01 Apr 2004 11:27:16 AM
"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote

"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote

BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."

FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying
to buy votes by making wild promises for new government
services and handouts that will cost 900 billion dollars.

This is a fantasy, as the above just explained and you
stealthfully ignored.
The reality is that BUSH has already pissed away more than
$10 trillion. He went from a projected surplus of over $5
trillion dollars to a projected deficit of over $5 trillion.
Even if the neo-con fantasy of Kerry & $900 billion were true,
which it most definitely is not, it would still be a bargain
compared to the money that Bush has ALREADY pissed away.
.
User: "Buse"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 05 Apr 2004 10:55:19 AM

This is a fantasy, as the above just explained and you
stealthfully ignored.

It's also a one sided liberal view of something that you have no first
hand knowledge of.

The reality is that BUSH has already pissed away more than
$10 trillion. He went from a projected surplus of over $5
trillion dollars to a projected deficit of over $5 trillion.

I doubt he controls the federal government like a check book. He
doesn't initiate every single control and spending measure, nor does
he control every penny of the US government. This is the biggest
problem, it's so easy when you dislike a candidate to blame them for
every single last detail.

Even if the neo-con fantasy of Kerry & $900 billion were true,
which it most definitely is not, it would still be a bargain
compared to the money that Bush has ALREADY pissed away.

You have no facts to support this, just bleeding heart propoganda. If
you can show me the latest budget, or direct spendatures by Bush
himself, then I'll gladly eat my words.
Buse
.
User: "mr_antone mr_antone@"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 05 Apr 2004 11:03:59 AM
On 5 Apr 2004 08:55:19 -0700,
(Buse) wrote:

This is a fantasy, as the above just explained and you
stealthfully ignored.


It's also a one sided liberal view of something that you have no first
hand knowledge of.

The reality is that BUSH has already pissed away more than
$10 trillion. He went from a projected surplus of over $5
trillion dollars to a projected deficit of over $5 trillion.


I doubt he controls the federal government like a check book. He
doesn't initiate every single control and spending measure, nor does
he control every penny of the US government. This is the biggest
problem, it's so easy when you dislike a candidate to blame them for
every single last detail.

Yep. Seems lost his veto stamp. Not his fault. Must of been the maid
that lost it.
"When you're the captain on the watch, you're responsible" - Ronald
Reagan
How soon they forget.

Even if the neo-con fantasy of Kerry & $900 billion were true,
which it most definitely is not, it would still be a bargain
compared to the money that Bush has ALREADY pissed away.


You have no facts to support this, just bleeding heart propoganda. If
you can show me the latest budget, or direct spendatures by Bush
himself, then I'll gladly eat my words.

Buse

mr_antone
--------------------------------------------------------
Bonde spins like a top in the same thread:
- You better believe we are in Iraq because of 9/11.
- Where did I say that 9/11 was Iraq?
-----------------------------------------------------------
More spin
- Are you too stupid to see how we could be in Iraq because
of 9/11 but that Iraq wasn't necessarily involved in 9/11?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bonde explains why he pulled out Clinton's penis
- Clinton's penis is the defence that Liberals use whenever
Conservatives want to actually discuss Clinton's policies.
-----------------------------------------------------------
More talk from Bonde about Clinton's penis
-Watch what happens when a Conservative brings up Clinton,
just talks about Clinton era policies, you'll see the Liberals
bring up Clinton's penis as both their sword and their shield.
-----------------------------------------------------------
.
User: "Buse"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 06 Apr 2004 09:20:44 PM

Yep. Seems lost his veto stamp. Not his fault. Must of been the maid
that lost it.

Wasn't his legislation that was initiated. A veto doesn't necessarily
guarantee that it wouldn't have passed in the first place. And I guess
we've just skipped blaming those that propose the legislation and have
gone straight into blaming those that put a signature on it?

"When you're the captain on the watch, you're responsible" - Ronald
Reagan

How soon they forget.

Doesn't mean the crew was any less responsible.
Buse
.
User: "mr_antone mr_antone@"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 07 Apr 2004 07:01:52 AM
On 6 Apr 2004 19:20:44 -0700,
(Buse) wrote:

Yep. Seems lost his veto stamp. Not his fault. Must of been the maid
that lost it.


Wasn't his legislation that was initiated. A veto doesn't necessarily
guarantee that it wouldn't have passed in the first place. And I guess
we've just skipped blaming those that propose the legislation and have
gone straight into blaming those that put a signature on it?

Bush didn't get his tax breaks for the rich passed in to law ?
It takes 3 to tango when passing any legislation. All controlled by
the GOP. And you claim Bush is not responsible ?
You call it bleeding heart propaganda ?
You're just a blind as a bat RW loon.

"When you're the captain on the watch, you're responsible" - Ronald
Reagan

How soon they forget.


Doesn't mean the crew was any less responsible.

The crew is controlled by the GOP.
When Bush signed it into law it became his responsibility.

Buse

mr_antone
.
User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: Rich pay about same taxes while middle class pays much less thanks to people like Bush and Reagan. 07 Apr 2004 05:45:45 PM
mr_antone <mr_antone@> wrote

cbuse@hotmail.com (Buse) wrote:

Yep. Seems lost his veto stamp. Not his fault. Must of been the maid
that lost it.


Wasn't his legislation that was initiated. A veto doesn't necessarily
guarantee that it wouldn't have passed in the first place. And I guess
we've just skipped blaming those that propose the legislation and have
gone straight into blaming those that put a signature on it?


Bush didn't get his tax breaks for the rich passed in to law ?

This article says that the taxes of the rich have mostly stayed the
same over the last twenty years while the taxes of the middle class
have dropped considerably.
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3504
-----------------------------------
Who's Paying Whose Fair Share?
by Bruce Bartlett
Posted Apr 6, 2004
Just in time for tax season, the Congressional Budget Office has
released new data on distribution of the tax burden. Contrary to
popular belief, they show that taxes on the wealthy have risen over
time and that the Bush tax cut in 2001 barely kept it from rising
further.
A convenient starting point is 1984. The Reagan tax cut was then fully
phased in (which reduced the top statutory income tax rate from 70
percent to 50 percent) and the 1983 Social Security tax increase had
already taken effect (which raised the OASI tax rate from a combined
9.5 percent to 10.4 percent). In that year, those in the bottom
quintile (20 percent of households) paid an average federal tax rate
(individual, payroll, corporate and excise) of 10.2 percent.
Those in the top quintile paid 24.5 percent, the top 10 percent paid
25.2 percent, the top 5 percent paid 26.1 percent, and the top 1
percent paid 28.2 percent. Thus, those at the top paid about two and a
half times more than those at the bottom.
Fast forward to 2001 (latest year in the CBO study). The top statutory
income tax rate has fallen to 39.1 percent and the total payroll tax
rate has risen from 14 percent to 15.3 percent. If one knew these
figures in 1984, almost all economists would have projected a sharp
decline in taxes paid by the rich and an increase in those paid by the
poor.
In fact, the data show that those in the bottom quintile are only
paying about half what they did 20 years ago: 5.4 percent. This is
down from 6.4 percent just the year before, owing to the Bush tax cut.
Those in the top quintile did pay a little less in 2001 than they did
in 2000: 26.8 percent versus 28 percent. But this is still well above
the average tax rate they paid in 1984. Interestingly, those at the
very top saw virtually no cut at all, even though liberals constantly
say that they got the lion's share of the 2001 tax cut. Between 2000
and 2001, those in the top 10 percent of households saw a drop from
29.7 percent to 28.6 percent and those in the top 5 percent saw a
decline from 31.1 percent to 30.1, but those in the top 1 percent saw
their effective tax rate virtually unchanged: 33.2 percent versus 33
percent.
All of those in the middle 3 quintiles paid less in 2001 than they
paid in 1984. In other words, between 1984 and 2001 average tax rates
for the wealthy substantially increased, while at least 80 percent of
households paid considerably less. Progressivity rose as the wealthy
now pay about 6 times more than the poor.
Looking at the share of taxes paid shows a similar pattern. From 1984
to 2001, those in the bottom quintile reduced their share of the total
tax burden from 2.4 percent to 1.1 percent. Those in the top quintile
saw their share rise from 55.6 percent to 65.3 percent. Among the
ultra wealthy, the top 10 percent increased their share from 39.3
percent to 50 percent, the top 5 percent raised their share from 28.2
percent to 38.5 percent, and that of those in the top 1 percent went
up from 14.7 percent to 22.7 percent.
In short, the poor paid half as much of the federal tax burden in 2001
as they did in 1984, while the rich paid about 50 percent more. Those
in the middle paid about a third less.
One would think that those on the left would be happy about this
trend. Instead, they constantly demagogue the wealthy as deadbeats
unwilling to bear their "fair share" of the tax burden, and berate the
Bush tax cuts for having "slashed" taxes for the wealthy while the
rest of us pay more. As is so often the case, the truth is exactly the
opposite of that portrayed in the liberal worldview.
Unfortunately, all taxpayers pay a price for the steeply graduated tax
system that has evolved. A new study by economists Steven Cassou and
Kevin Lansing shows that a flat rate tax would add significantly to
economic growth. Published in the April issue of Economic Inquiry, it
concludes that real per capita gross domestic product might rise by
0.143 percentage points per year. This may not sound like much, but
it's the difference between doubling in 33 years instead of 36 years.
The Cassou-Lansing study found that flattening the marginal tax rate
schedule causes most of the economic gains, which explains why tax
burdens on the rich rose as their statutory rates fell. Raising
statutory rates on the rich, as John Kerry proposes, likely would
reverse this trend, causing taxes on the poor and middle class to
rise.
Mr. Bartlett is a nationally syndicated columnist and a senior fellow
with the National Center for Policy Analysis.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Rich pay about same taxes while middle class pays much less thanks to people like Bush and Reagan. 07 Apr 2004 10:18:42 PM
.. . .



This article says that the taxes of the rich have mostly stayed the
same over the last twenty years while the taxes of the middle class
have dropped considerably.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3504

This article was written courtesy of the National Center for Policy
Analysis, a right-wing think tank. There's no harm in reading it, but
people should know where it came from.
.
User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: Rich pay about same taxes while middle class pays much less thanks to people like Bush and Reagan. 09 Apr 2004 07:22:32 PM
wrote in message:

. . .



This article says that the taxes of the rich have mostly stayed the
same over the last twenty years while the taxes of the middle class
have dropped considerably.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3504


This article was written courtesy of the National Center for Policy
Analysis, a right-wing think tank.

Yes, it is indeed.

There's no harm in reading it, but
people should know where it came from.

Its only harmful if its not true. so If anyone sees twisting, slanting
or spinning in the article please post it.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Rich pay about same taxes while middle class pays much less thanks to people like Bush and Reagan. 10 Apr 2004 10:54:25 PM
(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0404091622.2bd7d4ee@posting.google.com>...

cliff84373@yahoo.co.uk wrote in message:

. . .



This article says that the taxes of the rich have mostly stayed the
same over the last twenty years while the taxes of the middle class
have dropped considerably.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3504


This article was written courtesy of the National Center for Policy
Analysis, a right-wing think tank.


Yes, it is indeed.

There's no harm in reading it, but
people should know where it came from.


Its only harmful if its not true. so If anyone sees twisting, slanting
or spinning in the article please post it.

Here's an article that's probably from a left-wing think tank:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/12/17_tax.html
"Shifting Taxes from Rich to Poor
December 17, 2002
By punpirate
The latest attempt by the right wing to shift tax load to the lower
classes is nothing new. It's been going on since Roosevelt's New Deal.
Now, Bush tells us we're in the midst of war, but doesn't tell us that
the budget is heading for penury due to open-ended presidential
declarations of war--against anyone and everyone who has a grudge
against us. The latest spin, of course, is that this shift in taxation
is necessary to simplify the tax code. There's no mention that about
90% of the tax code today is devoted to carefully drafted loopholes
for individual corporations or industries or the wealthy.
In times past, we have faced greater problems--in 1944, for
example--when we faced world war, of a more desperate kind than the
President suggests now in the face of terrorism. But, if we are in the
midst of war, and need simplification of tax codes and of government,
that sacrifice is necessary to win both economic and military
adventures, then let's do the simple and decent thing--let's return
the tax code to its 1944 standards. Then, the country at war accepted
the necessity to pay for the war effort and made sacrifices, at both
personal and corporate levels. The tax code then was, indeed, simpler.
Corporations paid their fair share of taxes. The wealthy paid more
taxes because they were most likely to lose their wealth if the
country were to lose a war. Everyone, grudgingly, was, if not happy,
then satisfied with the arrangement.
Now, the right-wing extremists are not happy with the situation. They
want less taxes on the rich, though the rich pay much less now than
they did in 1944. Corporations now pay about 80% less in taxes than
they did during the last major war, even though they largely benefit
by government spending for war.
Right-wing conservatives have long wanted to destroy the aims of the
Great Society and the New Deal, and now see never-ending war and
nationalism as the means to that end. But, they don't want the rich to
suffer in any way by war, by economic upheaval, by corporate fraud.
They simply want to enable and further a system which has stagnated
the gains of the middle and lower classes of the country in the last
thirty years. Phillips reports that, in the last couple of decades,
the wealthy have seen their real wealth increase by some 150%, while
the middle class have seen 9-10% increases. The working poor, at which
proposed tax simplification is targeted, saw no gains at all."
.
User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: Rich pay about same taxes while middle class pays much less thanks to people like Bush and Reagan. 11 Apr 2004 08:35:02 AM
wrote in message news:<6aa1435d.0404101954.6c83223d@posting.google.com>...

mark_fox_@yahoo.com (Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0404091622.2bd7d4ee@posting.google.com>...

wrote in message:

. . .



This article says that the taxes of the rich have mostly stayed the
same over the last twenty years while the taxes of the middle class
have dropped considerably.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3504


This article was written courtesy of the National Center for Policy
Analysis, a right-wing think tank.


Yes, it is indeed.

There's no harm in reading it, but
people should know where it came from.


Its only harmful if its not true. so If anyone sees twisting, slanting
or spinning in the article please post it.


Here's an article that's probably from a left-wing think tank:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/12/17_tax.html

"Shifting Taxes from Rich to Poor
December 17, 2002
By punpirate


The latest attempt by the right wing.....
Bush tells us we're in the midst of war, but doesn't tell us ...
90% of the tax code today is devoted to carefully drafted loopholes
for... the wealthy.
Now, the right-wing extremists are not happy with the situation.


Right-wing conservatives have long wanted to destroy

The "right wing" is stealing. Bush is a liar. Right wingers are
angry. Right wingers are trying to destroy.
LOL! Gosh, how could you have the impression that the article was
from some left winger? LOL!
More disappointing is how did you get the idea this was even serious
enough to call an article about taxes.


The wealthy paid more
taxes because they were most likely to lose their wealth if the
country were to lose a war.

This quote is the most troubling. It seems to be implying that middle
class Americans wanted Hitler to win the war simply because they
weren't wealthy. Perhaps you also advocate that Tim McVeigh's bombing
of a day care center in Oklahoma was justified?
I posted what I thought was a serious article and, not wanting to be
mislead by either conservatives or liberals, asked for serious
critique. Your response with this trash is disappointing. I suppose
that one cannot expect a more mature analysis from the Internet where
just about anyone can get on their mother's computer and bang away on
the keyboard.
.




User: "Xomicron"

Title: The middle class pays taxes while the rich pay even more taxes. 09 Apr 2004 03:13:18 PM
It's time for the libbies to come back to reality.
.
User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: The middle class pays taxes while the rich pay even more taxes. 10 Apr 2004 11:55:21 AM
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<Xns94C6A5010ACCExomicron@0.0.0.1>...

It's time for the libbies to come back to reality.

as long as we don't vote for them in November they can be free to live
in their little fantasy world all alone, except of course when they
want to call the president a stupid idiot while smoking pot at a rock
concert. Love them dixie chicks! Has Jane fonda joined that group
yet??
I also notice that Al Gore understands how Americans don't care for
his liberal agenda anymore. He seems to be getting angrier and
angrier every time I see him talking on my TV. Its a shame that he
scheduled the emergency global warming summit meeting in New York on
the coldest day in recorded history. LOL!
.


User: "mr_antone"

Title: Re: Rich pay about same taxes while middle class pays much less thanks to people like Bush and Reagan. 11 Apr 2004 09:30:31 AM
On 7 Apr 2004 15:45:45 -0700,
(Mark Fox) wrote:

mr_antone <mr_antone@> wrote

cbuse@hotmail.com (Buse) wrote:

Yep. Seems lost his veto stamp. Not his fault. Must of been the maid
that lost it.


Wasn't his legislation that was initiated. A veto doesn't necessarily
guarantee that it wouldn't have passed in the first place. And I guess
we've just skipped blaming those that propose the legislation and have
gone straight into blaming those that put a signature on it?


Bush didn't get his tax breaks for the rich passed in to law ?



This article says that the taxes of the rich have mostly stayed the
same over the last twenty years while the taxes of the middle class
have dropped considerably.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3504

-----------------------------------

Who's Paying Whose Fair Share?
by Bruce Bartlett
Posted Apr 6, 2004

Just in time for tax season, the Congressional Budget Office has
released new data on distribution of the tax burden. Contrary to
popular belief, they show that taxes on the wealthy have risen over
time and that the Bush tax cut in 2001 barely kept it from rising
further.

A convenient starting point is 1984. The Reagan tax cut was then fully
phased in (which reduced the top statutory income tax rate from 70
percent to 50 percent) and the 1983 Social Security tax increase had
already taken effect (which raised the OASI tax rate from a combined
9.5 percent to 10.4 percent). In that year, those in the bottom
quintile (20 percent of households) paid an average federal tax rate
(individual, payroll, corporate and excise) of 10.2 percent.

Those in the top quintile paid 24.5 percent, the top 10 percent paid
25.2 percent, the top 5 percent paid 26.1 percent, and the top 1
percent paid 28.2 percent. Thus, those at the top paid about two and a
half times more than those at the bottom.

Fast forward to 2001 (latest year in the CBO study). The top statutory
income tax rate has fallen to 39.1 percent and the total payroll tax
rate has risen from 14 percent to 15.3 percent. If one knew these
figures in 1984, almost all economists would have projected a sharp
decline in taxes paid by the rich and an increase in those paid by the
poor.

In fact, the data show that those in the bottom quintile are only
paying about half what they did 20 years ago: 5.4 percent. This is
down from 6.4 percent just the year before, owing to the Bush tax cut.

Those in the top quintile did pay a little less in 2001 than they did
in 2000: 26.8 percent versus 28 percent. But this is still well above
the average tax rate they paid in 1984. Interestingly, those at the
very top saw virtually no cut at all, even though liberals constantly
say that they got the lion's share of the 2001 tax cut. Between 2000
and 2001, those in the top 10 percent of households saw a drop from
29.7 percent to 28.6 percent and those in the top 5 percent saw a
decline from 31.1 percent to 30.1, but those in the top 1 percent saw
their effective tax rate virtually unchanged: 33.2 percent versus 33
percent.

All of those in the middle 3 quintiles paid less in 2001 than they
paid in 1984. In other words, between 1984 and 2001 average tax rates
for the wealthy substantially increased, while at least 80 percent of
households paid considerably less. Progressivity rose as the wealthy
now pay about 6 times more than the poor.

Looking at the share of taxes paid shows a similar pattern. From 1984
to 2001, those in the bottom quintile reduced their share of the total
tax burden from 2.4 percent to 1.1 percent. Those in the top quintile
saw their share rise from 55.6 percent to 65.3 percent. Among the
ultra wealthy, the top 10 percent increased their share from 39.3
percent to 50 percent, the top 5 percent raised their share from 28.2
percent to 38.5 percent, and that of those in the top 1 percent went
up from 14.7 percent to 22.7 percent.

In short, the poor paid half as much of the federal tax burden in 2001
as they did in 1984, while the rich paid about 50 percent more. Those
in the middle paid about a third less.

One would think that those on the left would be happy about this
trend. Instead, they constantly demagogue the wealthy as deadbeats
unwilling to bear their "fair share" of the tax burden, and berate the
Bush tax cuts for having "slashed" taxes for the wealthy while the
rest of us pay more. As is so often the case, the truth is exactly the
opposite of that portrayed in the liberal worldview.

Unfortunately, all taxpayers pay a price for the steeply graduated tax
system that has evolved. A new study by economists Steven Cassou and
Kevin Lansing shows that a flat rate tax would add significantly to
economic growth. Published in the April issue of Economic Inquiry, it
concludes that real per capita gross domestic product might rise by
0.143 percentage points per year. This may not sound like much, but
it's the difference between doubling in 33 years instead of 36 years.

The Cassou-Lansing study found that flattening the marginal tax rate
schedule causes most of the economic gains, which explains why tax
burdens on the rich rose as their statutory rates fell. Raising
statutory rates on the rich, as John Kerry proposes, likely would
reverse this trend, causing taxes on the poor and middle class to
rise.

Mr. Bartlett is a nationally syndicated columnist and a senior fellow
with the National Center for Policy Analysis.

The article focuses on the federal tax rate.
One of the big RW lies.
When all payroll taxes are considered over the years, the tax burden
was shifted from the rich to the middle and poor class.
Also, many, if not most, of the rich do not pay any payroll taxes.
mr_antone
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bonde proves why he is a troll
-Why do you keep posting URLs? Do you think anyone looks at them?
-----------------------------------------------------------
.




User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 06 Apr 2004 05:38:19 PM
mr_antone <mr_antone@> wrote in message news:<gn0370doh9r05jeu1rjjq6s6u9j6ojr1er@4ax.com>...

On 5 Apr 2004 08:55:19 -0700,

(Buse) wrote:

This is a fantasy, as the above just explained and you
stealthfully ignored.


It's also a one sided liberal view of something that you have no first
hand knowledge of.

The reality is that BUSH has already pissed away more than
$10 trillion. He went from a projected surplus of over $5
trillion dollars to a projected deficit of over $5 trillion.


Even if the neo-con fantasy of Kerry & $900 billion were true,
which it most definitely is not, it would still be a bargain
compared to the money that Bush has ALREADY pissed away.


You have no facts to support this, just bleeding heart propoganda. If
you can show me the latest budget, or direct spendatures by Bush
himself, then I'll gladly eat my words.

He not only has no facts but his logic is laughable. He is claiming
that over spending is bad but kerry's overspending is ok because Bush
already overspent. He is either mentally retarded or blinded by his
neo-communist visceral foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of the Republican
Party.
.



User: "wbarwell"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 01 Apr 2004 06:46:32 PM
JTEM wrote:


"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote

"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote


BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."


FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying
to buy votes by making wild promises for new government
services and handouts that will cost 900 billion dollars.


This is a fantasy, as the above just explained and you
stealthfully ignored.

The reality is that BUSH has already pissed away more than
$10 trillion. He went from a projected surplus of over $5
trillion dollars to a projected deficit of over $5 trillion.

Even if the neo-con fantasy of Kerry & $900 billion were true,
which it most definitely is not, it would still be a bargain
compared to the money that Bush has ALREADY pissed away.


Bush started with a deficit of $5 trillion to the GOP
and Reagan and Bush who gave us runaway deficits
for twelve years.
The deficits were $997.9 billion in Carter's last year,
it took 20 years to go to $5 trillion.
Bush, in three short years added $2 trillion to our debt.
And the latest CBO report, (www.cbo.gov) show us indeed, 60% of this years
$500 billion deficits are Bush's fault.
This same report, released two Mondays ago, shows us
that Bush's plans, enacted, would double our deficits over ten years.
Somebody has to pay that back, eventually.
Note the CBO repoort shows in ten years, interest alone on the Bush/GOP
debts wil cost us more than all discretionary military and domestic
spending combined.
Bush and the GOP are insane.
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
.


User: ""

Title: Re: $900 Billion 03 Apr 2004 11:52:50 PM

FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars. Amazingly he is doing this while at
the same time complaining that Bush is not balancing the budget. what
a joke. John Kerry is a two faced rich liberal liar. I don't have
anything against liberals. They have many good ideas but I hate two
faced liars. Its a shame that the Democratic Party is planning to
nominate a two faced liberal liar like John Kerry. I guess I will
have to vote Republican this year.

How do you know Kerry's plan will cost $900 billion?
Is Bush a 2faced lier?
WMD-cost US over 500 soldiers, $163 billion, and increased worldwide
protest against US.
Was it profitable to stop hunting Osama to capture one of his great
enemies - Saddam? Saddam MET his ULTIMATUM. Bush, who
(unfortunately) represents the US, invaded Iraq without a justifiable
reason. At the same time, the ecomony crumbled, stocks dropped,
unemployment rose, and Osama got to take a break from hiding.
.
User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 04 Apr 2004 05:35:42 PM
wrote...

FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars. Amazingly he is doing this while at
the same time complaining that Bush is not balancing the budget. what
a joke. John Kerry is a two faced rich liberal liar. I don't have
anything against liberals. They have many good ideas but I hate two
faced liars. Its a shame that the Democratic Party is planning to
nominate a two faced liberal liar like John Kerry. I guess I will
have to vote Republican this year.


Is Bush a 2faced lier?
WMD-cost US over 500 soldiers, $163 billion, and increased worldwide
protest against US.

War is hell! Its better that they protest than lie dead in mass
graves in Iraq.


Was it profitable to stop hunting Osama to capture one of his great
enemies - Saddam?

No one stopped hunting Osama. You just don't hear about it on the six
o'clock news so you assume it didn't happen.

Saddam MET his ULTIMATUM.

Saddam was "met" in a spider hole and is now in prison about to be
tried by his own people for crimes against humanity.

Bush, who
(unfortunately) represents the US,

Aren't we lucky to have a strong stable leader in these times of war??
I think so.

invaded Iraq without a justifiable reason.

The UN security council seemed to think the reasons were justifiable
when they unanimously approved resolution 1441. The coalition of over
30 nations, as part of a broad internationally coordinated action,
were just enforcing that resolution. France, Germany and Russia
refused to participate because they were being bribed by Saddam.

At the same time, the ecomony crumbled,

The economy crumbled a year before 9/11. Check your calendar again.

stocks dropped,
unemployment rose,

Aren't you glad that President Bush's tax cuts and increased
government spending got back 308,000 of those jobs last month??

and Osama got to take a break from hiding.

Gosh that's news to me. The elections are drawing near which probably
means that Osama is about to get a missile up his arse.
.
User: "The Dude"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 04 Apr 2004 06:20:15 PM
"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a258afb5.0404041435.ef7865a@posting.google.com...

snert_master@yahoo.com wrote...

FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars. Amazingly he is doing this while at
the same time complaining that Bush is not balancing the budget. what
a joke. John Kerry is a two faced rich liberal liar. I don't have
anything against liberals. They have many good ideas but I hate two
faced liars. Its a shame that the Democratic Party is planning to
nominate a two faced liberal liar like John Kerry. I guess I will
have to vote Republican this year.


Is Bush a 2faced lier?
WMD-cost US over 500 soldiers, $163 billion, and increased worldwide
protest against US.


War is hell! Its better that they protest than lie dead in mass
graves in Iraq.

Yeah, instead of Iraqi's dying in Iraq, Americans are. Definatley a better
alternative?



Was it profitable to stop hunting Osama to capture one of his great
enemies - Saddam?


No one stopped hunting Osama. You just don't hear about it on the six
o'clock news so you assume it didn't happen.

*****. over 100,000 US troops in Irag and less than 20,000 in
Afghanistan. Backwards.


Saddam MET his ULTIMATUM.


Saddam was "met" in a spider hole and is now in prison about to be
tried by his own people for crimes against humanity.

Bush, who
(unfortunately) represents the US,


Aren't we lucky to have a strong stable leader in these times of war??
I think so.

A war he started.


invaded Iraq without a justifiable reason.


The UN security council seemed to think the reasons were justifiable
when they unanimously approved resolution 1441. The coalition of over
30 nations, as part of a broad internationally coordinated action,
were just enforcing that resolution. France, Germany and Russia
refused to participate because they were being bribed by Saddam.

But they were against force at the time. Bush ignored. I love this 30 nation
thing. A few troops from little third world nations. I think we're down to
29. El Salvador had there dozen inlvoled killed.

At the same time, the ecomony crumbled,


The economy crumbled a year before 9/11. Check your calendar again.

No it didn't. Bushco paints a picture that it did.


stocks dropped,
unemployment rose,


Aren't you glad that President Bush's tax cuts and increased
government spending got back 308,000 of those jobs last month??

Yet another 325,000 lost jobs. Still not one net job gain by either Bush.



and Osama got to take a break from hiding.


Gosh that's news to me. The elections are drawing near which probably
means that Osama is about to get a missile up his arse.

You finally said something that made sense. The elections are aproaching so
Bush will act like he has done something to fight terrorism, instead of
ignore it for 2 years.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 04 Apr 2004 06:19:23 PM
Mark Fox <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote:

snert_master@yahoo.com wrote...

FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars. Amazingly he is doing this while at
the same time complaining that Bush is not balancing the budget. what
a joke. John Kerry is a two faced rich liberal liar. I don't have
anything against liberals. They have many good ideas but I hate two
faced liars. Its a shame that the Democratic Party is planning to
nominate a two faced liberal liar like John Kerry. I guess I will
have to vote Republican this year.


Is Bush a 2faced lier?
WMD-cost US over 500 soldiers, $163 billion, and increased worldwide
protest against US.


War is hell! Its better that they protest than lie dead in mass
graves in Iraq.

Republicans for war and murder.

Was it profitable to stop hunting Osama to capture one of his great
enemies - Saddam?


No one stopped hunting Osama.

You're a liar. Bush moved troops from Afghanistan to Iraq.

invaded Iraq without a justifiable reason.


The UN security council seemed to think the reasons were justifiable
when they unanimously approved resolution 1441.

A resolution which did NOT authorize the invasion of Iraq.

At the same time, the ecomony crumbled,


The economy crumbled a year before 9/11.

Liar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.



User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 01 Apr 2004 10:49:19 PM
Mark Fox <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>...

BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."



FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars.

An outright lie.
Business as usual from the unethical right-wing Republicans.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "ronin"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 02 Apr 2004 01:24:03 AM
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c4ircf$jpi$1@bolt.sonic.net...

Mark Fox <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>...

BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."



FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars.


An outright lie.

Business as usual from the unethical right-wing Republicans.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Yep - CNN blew that claim out of the water today.
.
User: "Mark Fox"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 03 Apr 2004 11:23:26 AM
"ronin" <ronin@ree.tv> wrote in message news:<ny8bc.10546$Pk3.4457@pd7tw1no>...

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c4ircf$jpi$1@bolt.sonic.net...

Mark Fox <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>...

BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."



FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes by
making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars.


An outright lie.

Business as usual from the unethical right-wing Republicans.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net



Yep - CNN blew that claim out of the water today.

Did you miss the big retraction that CNN had to put on the air because
they found out they got their facts all wrong??
.
User: "ronin"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 04 Apr 2004 03:35:36 AM
"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a258afb5.0404030923.15d1f89b@posting.google.com...

"ronin" <ronin@ree.tv> wrote in message

news:<ny8bc.10546$Pk3.4457@pd7tw1no>...

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c4ircf$jpi$1@bolt.sonic.net...

Mark Fox <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Bush 2004" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<o9ednQP8NPb1OfbdRVn-sQ@comcast.com>...

BUSH FICTION: From the New Bush Attack Ad: "A
president sets his agenda for America in the first 100
days. John Kerry's plan: To pay for new government
spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion."

FACT: John Kerry will cut, not increase, taxes on
middle class families. The $900 billion ad is false.
The Bush Cheney Campaign uses weapons of deception
and distortion because they can't have an honest
debate about jobs and taxes. Bush's ad takes Kerry's
statement out of context. John Kerry said: "In my first
hundred days in the White House, I will roll back
George Bush's tax cut for the wealthiest so that we can
invest in education and health care."



FACT: John Kerry is running around the country trying to buy votes

by

making wild promises for new government services and handouts that
will cost 900 billion dollars.


An outright lie.

Business as usual from the unethical right-wing Republicans.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net



Yep - CNN blew that claim out of the water today.


Did you miss the big retraction that CNN had to put on the air because
they found out they got their facts all wrong??

Never happened.
Maybe your thnking of the Letterman/White House episode that happened around
the same time.
The articles are still floating around this NG.
.
User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 04 Apr 2004 06:44:31 AM
"ronin" <ronin@ree.tv> wrote

"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote

Did you miss the big retraction that CNN had to put
on the air because they found out they got their facts
all wrong??

Never happened.

Maybe your thnking of the Letterman/White House
episode that happened around the same time.

That was sick. First they quoted "the Whitehouse" and
said that the video was digitally altered and that the boy
was never there. Then they quoted the "Whitehouse" and
said that the boy was there, at the event, but not where he
was shown in the video.
Both where lies, and neither was retracted as far as I know.
Doesn't exactly leave you with a warm feeling...
.
User: "ronin"

Title: Re: $900 Billion 07 Apr 2004 02:18:50 AM
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fL-dnYH45KWGafLdRVn-uQ@comcast.com...


"ronin" <ronin@ree.tv> wrote

"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote

Did you miss the big retraction that CNN had to put
on the air because they found out they got their facts
all wrong??


Never happened.

Maybe your thnking of the Letterman/White House
episode that happened around the same time.


That was sick. First they quoted "the Whitehouse" and
said that the video was digitally altered and that the boy
was never there. Then they quoted the "Whitehouse" and
said that the boy was there, at the event, but not where he
was shown in the video.

Both where lies, and neither was retracted as far as I know.

Doesn't exactly leave you with a warm feeling...

This period will be dotted with dark passages like that when history records
the attempts the Bush regime has made to subvert every ideal america has
strived for for the last 225+ years.
.









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