| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dio" |
| Date: |
02 Nov 2003 07:08:04 AM |
| Object: |
What is a miracle? |
A miracle is something that science can't explain or something that was made
by a dead man( A holy for instance)?
Catholic say: when science can't explain something and people prayed a holy,
there is a miracle!
A lot of phenomena have been explained by physics and biology about miracles
that happened centuries ago.
Are them still miracles?
Why Catholic Chruch doesn't say that a lot of holy can't be called saint x
saint y and so on, now that science have explained about that "miraculous
phenomena"?
Bye bye
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 07:38:05 AM |
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:08:04 GMT in alt.atheism, Dio ("Dio"
<dadaismo@tin.it>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
A miracle is something that science can't explain or something that was made
by a dead man( A holy for instance)?
Catholic say: when science can't explain something and people prayed a holy,
there is a miracle!
Do they? Offhand I'd have thought they'd be more inclined to call any
event that produces faith a miracle.
A lot of phenomena have been explained by physics and biology about miracles
that happened centuries ago.
Are them still miracles?
Why Catholic Chruch doesn't say that a lot of holy can't be called saint x
saint y and so on, now that science have explained about that "miraculous
phenomena"?
Bye bye
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "+ Kosby +" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 10:28:57 AM |
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"Dio" <dadaismo@tin.it> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Uk7pb.397588$R32.13198957@news2.tin.it...
A lot of phenomena have been explained by physics and biology about
miracles
that happened centuries ago.
Are them still miracles?
Why Catholic Chruch doesn't say that a lot of holy can't be called saint x
saint y and so on, now that science have explained about that "miraculous
phenomena"?
The only phenomenon can't be explained is the crowd all around a presumed
miracle...
Even if the science can explain a phenomenon, if a cardinal or a bishop says
that "there is gorgeous event" every catholic thinks " Oh... it's a miracle
by saint x " .
The Catholich Church, even if the science explains the phenomenon, tends not
to negate the miracle... Why ? Because a big part of the Vaticano financial
entrances comes from pilgrimages to miracle places or from "devotion to a
particular saint...".
It's only business... Try to search information about San Gennaro miracles:
the phenomenon was explained by chemistry, but Cardinal Giordano, twice a
year, still officiates the practice...
Kosby
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| User: "Dio" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 04:24:48 PM |
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+ Kosby + ha scritto nel messaggio ...
CUT
It's only business... Try to search information about San Gennaro miracles:
the phenomenon was explained by chemistry, but Cardinal Giordano, twice a
year, still officiates the practice...
You're right. That's a big business!!
But people believe that there are miracles, that science can't explain
anything.
Scientists are responsibile of that. Scientists have to explain people that
there can't be any miracle.
We can't stand that any longer, we must act and let people to know more
science.
Bye bye
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| User: "GC" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 04:39:26 PM |
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"Dio" <dadaismo@tin.it> wrote in message
news:Qufpb.83928$e5.3120697@news1.tin.it...
+ Kosby + ha scritto nel messaggio ...
CUT
It's only business... Try to search information about San Gennaro
miracles:
the phenomenon was explained by chemistry, but Cardinal Giordano, twice a
year, still officiates the practice...
You're right. That's a big business!!
But people believe that there are miracles, that science can't explain
anything.
Scientists are responsibile of that. Scientists have to explain people
that
there can't be any miracle.
We can't stand that any longer, we must act and let people to know more
science.
Bye bye
Evidently the Church is not interested in your scientific opinions. The fact
that you are intelligent enough to explain an unusual phenomena does not
give you the right to be a substitute for God. The Church will rely only on
messages coming from God, on her own experience and all the works. Not like
the one you put on your pizza.
Ciao Dio. Look above and smile. You are on candid camera.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
03 Nov 2003 12:36:06 PM |
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On 02 Nov 2003, "GC" <NOSPAM@itWillB.com> screwed up his face, groaned,
pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:yIfpb.6548$R13.360410@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:
"Dio" <dadaismo@tin.it> wrote in message
news:Qufpb.83928$e5.3120697@news1.tin.it...
+ Kosby + ha scritto nel messaggio ...
CUT
It's only business... Try to search information about San Gennaro
miracles:
the phenomenon was explained by chemistry, but Cardinal Giordano,
twice a year, still officiates the practice...
You're right. That's a big business!!
But people believe that there are miracles, that science can't
explain anything.
Scientists are responsibile of that. Scientists have to explain
people
that
there can't be any miracle.
We can't stand that any longer, we must act and let people to know
more science.
Bye bye
Evidently the Church is not interested in your scientific opinions.
The fact that you are intelligent enough to explain an unusual
phenomena does not give you the right to be a substitute for God. The
Church will rely only on messages coming from God, on her own
experience and all the works. Not like the one you put on your pizza.
Ciao Dio. Look above and smile. You are on candid camera.
I am in awe of your ability to think for yourself.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Blast Femur" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
03 Nov 2003 12:11:48 AM |
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"Dio" <dadaismo@tin.it> wrote in
news:Uk7pb.397588$R32.13198957@news2.tin.it:
A miracle is something that science can't explain or something that
was made by a dead man( A holy for instance)?
Catholic say: when science can't explain something and people prayed a
holy, there is a miracle!
A lot of phenomena have been explained by physics and biology about
miracles that happened centuries ago.
Are them still miracles?
Why Catholic Chruch doesn't say that a lot of holy can't be called
saint x saint y and so on, now that science have explained about that
"miraculous phenomena"?
Bye bye
Please ask yourself what is the difference between miracles and random
events? When rain came to aid Southern California firefighters a few
days ago, some religious non-thinkers call it a miracle. If the miracle
comes from a loving God, why did he wait until 20 people died, and 3200+
homes were destroyed?
Rain, as always, is a random event. Please remember, science explains
"how", religion attempts to explain "why". There is no "why" in
random...
--
Blast Femur
______________
So, what are you going to do with the first 18,547,387,259,122,090 years
of eternity?
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| User: "Dio" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
03 Nov 2003 05:55:34 AM |
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Blast Femur ha scritto nel messaggio ...
CUT
Rain, as always, is a random event. Please remember, science explains
"how", religion attempts to explain "why". There is no "why" in
random...
Science explain "how" and why too. Maybe you mean "meaning". e.g: why our
universe and not something else and so on.
Anyway, be aware about "random" there are a lot of good theories about
chaos.
And the difference between Chaos and random(or disorder) is that you can
study chaos. Weather forecast for instance use a lot of chaos theories.
Bye bye
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| User: "Valerio Vanni" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
03 Nov 2003 02:18:28 PM |
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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:55:34 GMT, "Dio" <dadaismo@tin.it> wrote:
Rain, as always, is a random event. Please remember, science explains
"how", religion attempts to explain "why". There is no "why" in
random...
Science explain "how" and why too.
It's better to distinguish between the two meanings of the word "why":
one is about causes, the other is about scoping.
Why is it raining?
1 (causes): it's raining because two clouds have crashed one with each
other.
2 (scopes): it's raining in order to make that guy wet.
Blast Femur is (probably) pointing out that science doesn't treat
matters like the second.
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| User: "Dio" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
04 Nov 2003 06:17:41 AM |
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Valerio Vanni ha scritto nel messaggio
Why is it raining?
1 (causes): it's raining because two clouds have crashed one with each
other.
2 (scopes): it's raining in order to make that guy wet.
Blast Femur is (probably) pointing out that science doesn't treat
matters like the second.
I agree with you.
1. Cause that produce effect: science can study that.
2. Cause with purpose: only a consciousness(like humans) can act in that
way, and science doesn't care of that, because that is our fantasy.
When we study physics for instance we are looking for principles.
Principles axplain us about causes that produce effects, and how this causes
act to produce that effects.
So, what is purpose?
Is there in science something like a purpose?
Humans have purpose in their mind.
And when science(psychology) study that, we are studying what a purpose is.
A car can turn left, turn right, go straight on et cetera. Is that physics?
Well, physics study about cause that produce effect.
e.g.
A car turn left: what is the cause that produce effect?
The first cause is the driver who "decided" to turned left.
The second cause is that wheels turn.
Science can explain how that car turn left: by turning wheels.
Science can explain the cause: handle has been turned.
Science can study even "purpose": studying that man who turned left.
When we ask about "purpose" we are asking about a man who acts.
When believer are asking about a "purpose", they are thinking a deity.
When a philosopher asks about a "purpose", he is asking about "sense",
"meaning".
I think there is no sense, no meaning. We have principles, that's all.
When we ask about "sense" we are asking in a wrong way, that is an
anthropomorphous question.
Knowledge is a human thing. Our knowledge is limited not because there could
be more knowledge, but because knowledge is a human thing.
In this case we can say that knowledge is relative to us. And we can know
everything, because knowledge is a human thing.
This knowledge is based on biological matter(our brain: CNS).
To study interaction between brain (neuroscience) and world is the better
way to understand that.
Bye bye
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| User: "Massimo Conti" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
11 Nov 2003 01:07:25 PM |
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This is a miracle:
http://www.regione.abruzzo.it/giubileo/en/itinerari/lanciano/miracolo_scienza.htm
Also this is a miracle:
http://spazioinwind.libero.it/maxconti/sindone.htm
(See also the film "Bruce Almighty" and listen carefully the final part
in order to know what's a miracle...)
Pace and well.
Massimo Conti.
Home Page: http://spazioinwind.libero.it/maxconti/index.html
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 07:06:41 PM |
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"Dio" <dadaismo@tin.it> wrote in
news:Uk7pb.397588$R32.13198957@news2.tin.it:
Subject: What is a miracle?
Something nobody ever actually saw happen but everyone insists must have
happened because it validates their superstition.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Your primitive religion amuses me. Bring me your finest meats and cheeses.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 08:21:49 AM |
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A miracle is something that science can't explain
When an explanation for an event is not
known yet, the explanation should not be
automatically considered divine nor forever
inexplicable.
or something that was made
by a dead man( A holy for instance)?
Catholic say: when science can't explain something and people prayed a
holy, there is a miracle!
A lot of phenomena have been explained by physics and biology about
miracles that happened centuries ago.
Are them still miracles?
No, there are no miracles.
Why Catholic Chruch doesn't say that a lot of holy can't be called saint x
saint y and so on, now that science have explained about that "miraculous
phenomena"?
Apparently the Catholics committed themselves
to believing in miracles and now cannot dig out of
that pit of ignorance.
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| User: "diskette" |
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| Title: Re: What is a miracle? |
02 Nov 2003 09:33:24 PM |
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Was 9/11 a mirace? Answer depends if one got out in time.
In article <Uk7pb.397588$R32.13198957@news2.tin.it>, says...
A miracle is something that science can't explain or something that was made
by a dead man( A holy for instance)?
Catholic say: when science can't explain something and people prayed a holy,
there is a miracle!
A lot of phenomena have been explained by physics and biology about miracles
that happened centuries ago.
Are them still miracles?
Why Catholic Chruch doesn't say that a lot of holy can't be called saint x
saint y and so on, now that science have explained about that "miraculous
phenomena"?
Bye bye
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