| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"MarkA" |
| Date: |
30 Jan 2005 04:25:24 PM |
| Object: |
What is a "Strawman?" |
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking", published by
Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt to
distract attention from the important, central issue.
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your opponent's
argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the weakness that you,
yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red herring" to describe an
attempt to divert attention.
How do people in this group use these terms?
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
30 Jan 2005 05:14:19 PM |
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MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in
news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net:
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking", published
by Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt
to distract attention from the important, central issue.
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your
opponent's argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the
weakness that you, yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red
herring" to describe an attempt to divert attention.
How do people in this group use these terms?
A "straw man" is a caracature of your opponent's position, a mis-
statement of your opponent's position, that you can defeat.
"If the theory of evolution says that species can change over the
generations, then why do we never see cats giving birth to dogs?" is an
example of a straw man.
--
Enkidu AA# 2165
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Attributed to Epicurus 341-270 B.C.E.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
31 Jan 2005 02:20:29 AM |
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"Enkidu" <enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote in message
news:Xns95EE5DFB8E552255229@130.133.1.4...
MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in
news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net:
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking", published
by Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt
to distract attention from the important, central issue.
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your
opponent's argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the
weakness that you, yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red
herring" to describe an attempt to divert attention.
How do people in this group use these terms?
A "straw man" is a caracature of your opponent's position, a mis-
statement of your opponent's position, that you can defeat.
"If the theory of evolution says that species can change over the
generations, then why do we never see cats giving birth to dogs?" is an
example of a straw man.
With gods all things are possible.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
01 Feb 2005 08:27:52 PM |
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Ike wrote:
< snip >
With gods all things are possible.
Which is why they're useless as a scientific explanation for anything.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
31 Jan 2005 06:39:48 AM |
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 02:20:29 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
With gods all things are possible.
Except getting through the 5 feet of armor plate some theists call a
skull.
--
"They laughed at Newton, they laughed at Einstein, but they also laughed at
Bozo the Clown."
- Carl Sagan
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Rump Ranger" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
05 Feb 2005 07:02:22 PM |
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MarkA wrote:
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking", published
by
Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt to
distract attention from the important, central issue.
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your
opponent's
argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the weakness that
you,
yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red herring" to describe an
attempt to divert attention.
Right.
How do people in this group use these terms?
To describe whatever they don't like to hear, mostly. This place is
not an academic forum known for it's strict adherence to logical
argumentation.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
05 Feb 2005 10:04:16 PM |
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On 5 Feb 2005 11:02:22 -0800, "Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
MarkA wrote:
How do people in this group use these terms?
To describe whatever they don't like to hear, mostly. This place is
not an academic forum known for it's strict adherence to logical
argumentation.
Translation:
I got called for misusing them, but others use them against me
properly, and that's not fair.
--
"Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. 'But what
shall we substitute in its place?' you say. What? A ferocious animal has sucked the
blood of my relatives. I tell you to rid yourselves of this beast and you ask me what
you shall put in its place?" - Voltaire
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Rump Ranger" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
05 Feb 2005 11:33:37 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 5 Feb 2005 11:02:22 -0800, "Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com>
said in alt.atheism:
MarkA wrote:
How do people in this group use these terms?
To describe whatever they don't like to hear, mostly. This place is
not an academic forum known for it's strict adherence to logical
argumentation.
Translation:
I got called for misusing them,
Which were all idiotic lies. Nice try though.
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
31 Jan 2005 04:37:31 AM |
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MarkA wrote:
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking", published by
Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt to
distract attention from the important, central issue.
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your opponent's
argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the weakness that you,
yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red herring" to describe an
attempt to divert attention.
How do people in this group use these terms?
As you do.
A red herring is an attempt to divert attention by
raising anoother less important issue.
A strawman is mistating the issue and attacking a false argument.
It is diversionary in that it avoids attacking the real issue.
Of course a strawma attacke rarely fools the person so being
unfairly dealt with in this manner, but it is often successful
in poisoning teh well with third parties who are often not well versed in
the argument to begin with.
You see this a lot with poorly written xian apologetics.
They do not care about intelectual honesty, only in swaying an audience
anyway possible.
--
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Rump Ranger" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
05 Feb 2005 07:06:55 PM |
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wcb wrote:
MarkA wrote:
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking",
published by
Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt
to
distract attention from the important, central issue.
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your
opponent's
argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the weakness
that you,
yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red herring" to describe
an
attempt to divert attention.
How do people in this group use these terms?
As you do.
A red herring is an attempt to divert attention by
raising anoother less important issue.
Not necessarily a less important issue but an *irrelevant* one. I've
seen arguments in RPG game forums about what's the best resolution
mechanic for some situation or another turn into a flamefest when
somebody drags Bush politics into it. Bush's politics are far more
important than any RPG game yet in that thread would be entirely
irrelevant.
A strawman is mistating the issue and attacking a false argument.
It is diversionary in that it avoids attacking the real issue.
Of course a strawma attacke rarely fools the person so being
unfairly dealt with in this manner, but it is often successful
in poisoning teh well with third parties who are often not well
versed in
the argument to begin with.
You see this a lot with poorly written xian apologetics.
They do not care about intelectual honesty, only in swaying an
audience
anyway possible.
Like any polemicist does. Name a cause and you'll always find people
who aren't intellectually honest when trying to get converts.
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| User: "Larry Heath" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
30 Jan 2005 05:46:34 PM |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in message =
news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net...
I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, called "Clear Thinking", published =
by
Prometheus Books. In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt to
distract attention from the important, central issue.
=20
I had always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your =
opponent's
argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack the weakness that =
you,
yourself have inserted. I use the term, "red herring" to describe an
attempt to divert attention.
=20
How do people in this group use these terms?
=20
--=20
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
The definition that I use is as follows:
Straw Man occurs when:=20
An opponent takes the original argument of their adversary and then =
provides a close imitation, or straw man, version of the original =
argument; "knocks down" the straw man version of the argument (because =
the straw man, as its name implies, is a much easier target to hit, =
undermine, defeat , etc.) -- and thereby gives the appearance of having =
successfully countered/overcome/answered the original argument. =20
Red Herring:
Something that draws attention away from the central issue.=20
This does seem to support your thesis.
Later Larry
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"MarkA" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:manthony@stopspam.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>manthony@stopspam.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>> wrote in=20
message </FONT><A =
href=3D"news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net"><FONT=20
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net</FONT></A><FONT=
=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis, =
called=20
"Clear Thinking", published by<BR>> Prometheus Books. In it, he =
refers=20
to a "strawman" as an attempt to<BR>> distract attention from the =
important,=20
central issue.<BR>> <BR>> I had always thought that a strawman was =
a=20
restatement of your opponent's<BR>> argument in a weakened form, so =
that you=20
can attack the weakness that you,<BR>> yourself have inserted. =
I use=20
the term, "red herring" to describe an<BR>> attempt to divert=20
attention.<BR>> <BR>> How do people in this group use these =
terms?<BR>>=20
<BR>> -- <BR>> MarkA<BR>> (still caught in the maze of twisty =
little=20
passages, all different)<BR>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The definition that I use is as=20
follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Straw Man occurs when: </FONT>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An opponent takes the original argument =
of their adversary and then provides a close imitation, or straw =
man,=20
version of the original argument; "knocks down" the straw man version of =
the=20
argument (because the straw man, as its name implies, is a much easier =
target to=20
hit, undermine, defeat , etc.) -- and thereby gives the appearance =
of=20
having successfully countered/overcome/answered the original =
argument. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Red Herring:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Something that draws attention away =
from the=20
central issue</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This does seem to support your =
thesis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>Later Larry</FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460--
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
30 Jan 2005 06:06:22 PM |
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on 30 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Larry Heath dropped trou, farted,
whirled, then shouted:
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"MarkA" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:manthony@stopspam.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>manthony@stopspam.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote in message </FONT><A
href="news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis,
called "Clear Thinking", published by<BR>> Prometheus Books.
In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt to<BR>> distract
attention from the important, central issue.<BR>> <BR>> I had
always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your
opponent's<BR>> argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack
the weakness that you,<BR>> yourself have inserted. I use the
term, "red herring" to describe an<BR>> attempt to divert
attention.<BR>> <BR>> How do people in this group use these
terms?<BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> MarkA<BR>> (still caught in the
maze of twisty little passages, all different)<BR>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The definition that I use is as
follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Straw Man occurs when: </FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>An opponent takes the original argument
of their adversary and then provides a close imitation, or straw
man, version of the original argument; "knocks down" the straw man
version of the argument (because the straw man, as its name implies,
is a much easier target to hit, undermine, defeat , etc.) -- and
thereby gives the appearance of having successfully
countered/overcome/answered the original argument. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Red Herring:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Something that draws attention away from
the central issue</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This does seem to support your
thesis.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Later
Larry</FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460--
This is what HTML looks like to most newsreaders. Best to post in plain
text.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
31 Jan 2005 02:20:30 AM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95EE6705EB482vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 30 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Larry Heath dropped trou, farted,
whirled, then shouted:
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"MarkA" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:manthony@stopspam.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>manthony@stopspam.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote in message </FONT><A
href="news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>news:pan.2005.01.30.16.25.25.433450@stopspam.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>I am reading a book by Hy Ruchlis,
called "Clear Thinking", published by<BR>> Prometheus Books.
In it, he refers to a "strawman" as an attempt to<BR>> distract
attention from the important, central issue.<BR>> <BR>> I had
always thought that a strawman was a restatement of your
opponent's<BR>> argument in a weakened form, so that you can attack
the weakness that you,<BR>> yourself have inserted. I use the
term, "red herring" to describe an<BR>> attempt to divert
attention.<BR>> <BR>> How do people in this group use these
terms?<BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> MarkA<BR>> (still caught in the
maze of twisty little passages, all different)<BR>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The definition that I use is as
follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Straw Man occurs when: </FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>An opponent takes the original argument
of their adversary and then provides a close imitation, or straw
man, version of the original argument; "knocks down" the straw man
version of the argument (because the straw man, as its name implies,
is a much easier target to hit, undermine, defeat , etc.) -- and
thereby gives the appearance of having successfully
countered/overcome/answered the original argument. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Red Herring:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Something that draws attention away from
the central issue</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This does seem to support your
thesis.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR>Later
Larry</FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C506C9.BAEAA460--
This is what HTML looks like to most newsreaders. Best to post in plain
text.
Funny, but I didn't see any HTML until you posted it.
.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
31 Jan 2005 03:25:59 AM |
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On 30 Jan 2005, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
Funny, but I didn't see any HTML until you posted it.
On my newsreader, Xnews, it was about three lines below the line that went
off about a yard beyond the end of my monitor. But you probably didn't see
that either. Some newsreaders support HTML. All newsreaders support plain
text. This is why plain text is the norm for Usenet.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
--------
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you
wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
01 Feb 2005 08:25:21 PM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
On 30 Jan 2005, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
Funny, but I didn't see any HTML until you posted it.
On my newsreader, Xnews, it was about three lines below the line that went
off about a yard beyond the end of my monitor. But you probably didn't see
that either. Some newsreaders support HTML. All newsreaders support plain
text. This is why plain text is the norm for Usenet.
Ike doesn't use a newsreader; he uses Outlook Express.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
01 Feb 2005 09:06:55 PM |
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on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, Tukla Ratte dropped trou, farted,
whirled, then shouted:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
On 30 Jan 2005, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
Funny, but I didn't see any HTML until you posted it.
On my newsreader, Xnews, it was about three lines below the line that
went off about a yard beyond the end of my monitor. But you probably
didn't see that either. Some newsreaders support HTML. All
newsreaders support plain text. This is why plain text is the norm
for Usenet.
Ike doesn't use a newsreader; he uses Outlook Express.
If I remember correctly, one has to set the entire program to plain text,
or keep setting it back and forth when using it for rich-text E-mail or
plain-text news posts. What a drag.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 AM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95F085A409ED0vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, Tukla Ratte dropped trou, farted,
whirled, then shouted:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
On 30 Jan 2005, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
Funny, but I didn't see any HTML until you posted it.
On my newsreader, Xnews, it was about three lines below the line that
went off about a yard beyond the end of my monitor. But you probably
didn't see that either. Some newsreaders support HTML. All
newsreaders support plain text. This is why plain text is the norm
for Usenet.
Ike doesn't use a newsreader; he uses Outlook Express.
If I remember correctly, one has to set the entire program to plain text,
or keep setting it back and forth when using it for rich-text E-mail or
plain-text news posts. What a drag.
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it and
went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only sometimes
slightly different fonts or encoding of apostrophes and comma as question
marks.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
03 Feb 2005 05:18:01 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it and
went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only sometimes
slightly different fonts
That's usually done in html on usenet. You;d have to load the actual
post into Notepad to see that, though, if you use OE.
--
"I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president."
--George W. Bush, quoted in George Magazine, September, 2000
"God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith,
deep and unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by
God to save Germany."
--Hermann Goering, speaking of Hitler
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
03 Feb 2005 06:37:22 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:nuc301lrpuat31ialpvt3ah9oir4b8s0ns@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it and
went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only
sometimes
slightly different fonts
That's usually done in html on usenet. You;d have to load the actual
post into Notepad to see that, though, if you use OE.
SO use it and stop worrying about HTML.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
03 Feb 2005 10:56:41 PM |
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:37:22 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:nuc301lrpuat31ialpvt3ah9oir4b8s0ns@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it and
went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only
sometimes
slightly different fonts
That's usually done in html on usenet. You;d have to load the actual
post into Notepad to see that, though, if you use OE.
SO use it and stop worrying about HTML.
Why should I use an inferior program just because some people refuse
to use text in a textual medium?
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of
themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
05 Feb 2005 05:02:38 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:50b5011ckv1tpdsemjkc6t082ipq2r55ru@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:37:22 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:nuc301lrpuat31ialpvt3ah9oir4b8s0ns@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it
and
went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only
sometimes
slightly different fonts
That's usually done in html on usenet. You;d have to load the actual
post into Notepad to see that, though, if you use OE.
SO use it and stop worrying about HTML.
Why should I use an inferior program just because some people refuse
to use text in a textual medium?
Since you are aware that they do, then either stop complaining or use an
inferior program that solves the problem.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
05 Feb 2005 06:42:49 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:02:38 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:50b5011ckv1tpdsemjkc6t082ipq2r55ru@4ax.com...
Why should I use an inferior program just because some people refuse
to use text in a textual medium?
Since you are aware that they do, then either stop complaining or use an
inferior program that solves the problem.
"When people do wrong, those who do right should do wrong to get
along."
Makes as much sense as Christianity.
--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise
as false, and by the rulers as useful."
- Seneca the Younger
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
07 Feb 2005 03:40:01 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:gr4a01lhp58k3qk6blrssapqmf1m4jduop@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:02:38 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:50b5011ckv1tpdsemjkc6t082ipq2r55ru@4ax.com...
Why should I use an inferior program just because some people refuse
to use text in a textual medium?
Since you are aware that they do, then either stop complaining or use an
inferior program that solves the problem.
"When people do wrong, those who do right should do wrong to get
along."
Makes as much sense as Christianity.
Except, why is it wrong? Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
07 Feb 2005 04:41:22 AM |
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 03:40:01 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:gr4a01lhp58k3qk6blrssapqmf1m4jduop@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:02:38 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:50b5011ckv1tpdsemjkc6t082ipq2r55ru@4ax.com...
Why should I use an inferior program just because some people refuse
to use text in a textual medium?
Since you are aware that they do, then either stop complaining or use an
inferior program that solves the problem.
"When people do wrong, those who do right should do wrong to get
along."
Makes as much sense as Christianity.
Except, why is it wrong?
Because this isn't the web, it's usenet, which is a text-based medium.
If it were an html-based medium, all good news clients would decode
html.
Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
Gates' net worth has nothing to do with usenet.
--
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains
premature today."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
08 Feb 2005 02:47:14 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:t8sd0113bdd9k173ks5l6mhmg504hqg5qc@4ax.com...
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 03:40:01 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:gr4a01lhp58k3qk6blrssapqmf1m4jduop@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:02:38 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:50b5011ckv1tpdsemjkc6t082ipq2r55ru@4ax.com...
Why should I use an inferior program just because some people refuse
to use text in a textual medium?
Since you are aware that they do, then either stop complaining or use
an
inferior program that solves the problem.
"When people do wrong, those who do right should do wrong to get
along."
Makes as much sense as Christianity.
Except, why is it wrong?
Because this isn't the web, it's usenet, which is a text-based medium.
If it were an html-based medium, all good news clients would decode
html.
Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
Gates' net worth has nothing to do with usenet.
Usually people who complain about Microsoft programs are also jealous. Glad
to hear you are above that sort of pettiness.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
08 Feb 2005 04:16:36 AM |
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:47:14 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
Gates' net worth has nothing to do with usenet.
Usually people who complain about Microsoft programs are also jealous. Glad
to hear you are above that sort of pettiness.
I own legal copies of just about everything Micro$haft puts out. I
don't use any of them that I don't have to use and, since I don't post
on usenet for a living, I have my choice of news clients. There are
probably a few better than Agent (none of which come from Gates), but
I've been using Agent too long to get used to anything else
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an
old religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in
its simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
10 Feb 2005 11:21:48 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:h3fg0159v5rstbrl740q1a2kpt1f8r305q@4ax.com...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:47:14 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
Gates' net worth has nothing to do with usenet.
Usually people who complain about Microsoft programs are also jealous.
Glad
to hear you are above that sort of pettiness.
I own legal copies of just about everything Micro$haft puts out. I
don't use any of them that I don't have to use and, since I don't post
on usenet for a living, I have my choice of news clients. There are
probably a few better than Agent (none of which come from Gates), but
I've been using Agent too long to get used to anything else
Everything I have form Microsoft was either free or came with a new machine,
except that once I bought Win 98 1st edition upgrade at a moving sale that
had never been registered for $5.00. Now I have 3 licensed copies of Win XP
Home, and Office 2000 that someone from an embassy laid on me since they had
extras.
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious
mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not
an
old religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is
magnificent in
its simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Rump Ranger" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
10 Feb 2005 11:53:42 PM |
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Ike wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:h3fg0159v5rstbrl740q1a2kpt1f8r305q@4ax.com...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:47:14 GMT, "Ike"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
Gates' net worth has nothing to do with usenet.
Usually people who complain about Microsoft programs are also
jealous.
Glad
to hear you are above that sort of pettiness.
I own legal copies of just about everything Micro$haft puts out. I
don't use any of them that I don't have to use and, since I don't
post
on usenet for a living, I have my choice of news clients. There
are
probably a few better than Agent (none of which come from Gates),
but
I've been using Agent too long to get used to anything else
Everything I have form Microsoft was either free or came with a new
machine,
except that once I bought Win 98 1st edition upgrade at a moving sale
that
had never been registered for $5.00. Now I have 3 licensed copies of
Win XP
Home, and Office 2000 that someone from an embassy laid on me since
they had
extras.
Since I do work at home on my computer, I had to buy Microsoft Office
for Word, Powerpoint, and Excel. Programs ain't bad but I fucking hate
Outlook.
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
12 Feb 2005 06:53:58 PM |
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"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108079622.252509.233560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ike wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:h3fg0159v5rstbrl740q1a2kpt1f8r305q@4ax.com...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:47:14 GMT, "Ike"
<accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
Just because Bill Gates is stinking rich?
Gates' net worth has nothing to do with usenet.
Usually people who complain about Microsoft programs are also
jealous.
Glad
to hear you are above that sort of pettiness.
I own legal copies of just about everything Micro$haft puts out. I
don't use any of them that I don't have to use and, since I don't
post
on usenet for a living, I have my choice of news clients. There
are
probably a few better than Agent (none of which come from Gates),
but
I've been using Agent too long to get used to anything else
Everything I have form Microsoft was either free or came with a new
machine,
except that once I bought Win 98 1st edition upgrade at a moving sale
that
had never been registered for $5.00. Now I have 3 licensed copies of
Win XP
Home, and Office 2000 that someone from an embassy laid on me since
they had
extras.
Since I do work at home on my computer, I had to buy Microsoft Office
for Word, Powerpoint, and Excel. Programs ain't bad but I fucking hate
Outlook.
I don't use Outlook. Outloook Express is of course a totally different
program. Outlook was too much trouble.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
03 Feb 2005 08:12:25 PM |
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on 03 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:nuc301lrpuat31ialpvt3ah9oir4b8s0ns@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it
and went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only
sometimes
slightly different fonts
That's usually done in html on usenet. You;d have to load the actual
post into Notepad to see that, though, if you use OE.
SO use it and stop worrying about HTML.
A lot more people than you may think do not have Outlook. Personally, I
hate using it for Usenet, there aren't enough filters to make groups like
this enjoyable. And downloading binaries with OE involves a lot of extra
work sewing the pieces back together. Xnews does it automatically, and
it's Yenc friendly.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: What is a "Strawman?" |
03 Feb 2005 10:18:56 PM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95F27C665CF84vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 03 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, Ike dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:nuc301lrpuat31ialpvt3ah9oir4b8s0ns@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:52:37 GMT, "Ike" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com>
said in alt.atheism:
I haven't had that problem. I tried xnews but haven't got used to it
and went back to the familiar OE 6. I never see HTML on usenet, only
sometimes
slightly different fonts
That's usually done in html on usenet. You;d have to load the actual
post into Notepad to see that, though, if you use OE.
SO use it and stop worrying about HTML.
A lot more people than you may think do not have Outlook. Personally, I
hate using it for Usenet, there aren't enough filters to make groups like
this enjoyable. And downloading binaries with OE involves a lot of extra
work sewing the pieces back together. Xnews does it automatically, and
it's Yenc friendly.
I don't need any stinking filters to enjoy alt.atheism. Plus I don't have
any spam filters on my email. but you are right that xnews is much better
for binaries. Probably Agent is the best for usenet discussion groups. The
problem I have with OE is that I can't get rid of old headers without
setting the filter globally. Maybe there's a way, but I give up.
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