What is faith?

from:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.gnostic/browse_frm/thread/0fd8ec2ac0dde13e/ed45471dc37e228f#ed45471dc37e228f


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

V:


When it comes to faith...faith must always be based on the fact of a
'first see-er' or 'first contact' that is telling the truth.

We do not come up with ideas to base faith on all on our own.

All religious faith is based on someone else's reports.

If this persons report is based on lies, than the faith must
evaporate.

I am not shy to benefit from spiritual and religious tools. The only
requirement is that the tool can be tested for practical application.
And if the tool can't be tested and requires faith, I have to let it
go for the most part since there are so many lies that religion of man
is based on and no one can prove or disprove any of it.

See:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0

That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves.
As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for
the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the
time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken
and useless.

Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that
comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

Religious practicers as well as atheists need to open their mind and
see things without the delusions that both sides of this topic are
stuck in.

'Honor dies where interest lies.'

As an agnostic freethinker my interest is in discovering truth.

When we limit personal prejudice we can open our minds to truth and
peace. And realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside
within the human breast."

If it is religion that atheists or theists need to adopt, they only
have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying
secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.

I discuss this topic of faith with an ex-rabbi towards the end of this
thread:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=51.0

From my own perspective since religion is riddled with lies and

ambiguities, the need for faith is where I leave off.

I test the spiritual traditions for veracity. Those areas that cannot
be tested or otherwise proved are let go of and those that can be
tested are either peace producing or peace destroying.

If peace destroying I let them go and if peace promoting I try to
implement some of them in my life.

A lot of people get confused when I talk about inner peace.

Some of them call me a 'self righteous twit' or worse.

Well, just because I talk about this peace subject a lot, does not
mean I practice it in all waking and sleeping hours.

Sometime I destroy me own peace as well.

But at least I do know the formula how to get back to a place of inner
peace if I desire to return to that place.

Peace is always a personal choice as no one can do it for us.

Inner peace does not take faith...it takes testing and practice.

"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." ~
Hindu Sage



Take Care,


V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher

For free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity,
compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write:
vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not
the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.

What is faith?

What is faith?

What is faith?

What is faith?

What is faith?

What is faith?

from:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.gnostic/browse_frm/thread/0fd8ec2ac0dde13e/ed45471dc37e228f#ed45471dc37e228f

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

V:

When it comes to faith...faith must always be based on the fact of a
'first see-er' or 'first contact' that is telling the truth.

We do not come up with ideas to base faith on all on our own.

All religious faith is based on someone else's reports.

If this persons report is based on lies, than the faith must
evaporate.

I am not shy to benefit from spiritual and religious tools. The only
requirement is that the tool can be tested for practical application.
And if the tool can't be tested and requires faith, I have to let it
go for the most part since there are so many lies that religion of man
is based on and no one can prove or disprove any of it.

See:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0

That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves.
As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for
the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the
time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken
and useless.

Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that
comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

Religious practicers as well as atheists need to open their mind and
see things without the delusions that both sides of this topic are
stuck in.

'Honor dies where interest lies.'

As an agnostic freethinker my interest is in discovering truth.

When we limit personal prejudice we can open our minds to truth and
peace. And realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside
within the human breast."

If it is religion that atheists or theists need to adopt, they only
have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying
secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.

I discuss this topic of faith with an ex-rabbi towards the end of this
thread:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=51.0

From my own perspective since religion is riddled with lies and

ambiguities, the need for faith is where I leave off.

I test the spiritual traditions for veracity. Those areas that cannot
be tested or otherwise proved are let go of and those that can be
tested are either peace producing or peace destroying.

If peace destroying I let them go and if peace promoting I try to
implement some of them in my life.

A lot of people get confused when I talk about inner peace.

Some of them call me a 'self righteous twit' or worse.

Well, just because I talk about this peace subject a lot, does not
mean I practice it in all waking and sleeping hours.

Sometime I destroy me own peace as well.

But at least I do know the formula how to get back to a place of inner
peace if I desire to return to that place.

Peace is always a personal choice as no one can do it for us.

Inner peace does not take faith...it takes testing and practice.

"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." ~
Hindu Sage

Take Care,

V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher

For free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity,
compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write:
vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not
the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.