What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Art Bulla"
Date:	04 Sep 2007 12:23:09 PM
Object:	What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?

5 And he had hope to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many
revelations and the many things which I had seen concerning these things;
for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I
had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to
time; wherefore, I could not be shaken. Jacob 7:5
EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY
What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the agency of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by right, is
not true? I have your word only, for behold ye do not know, neither do you
consider your own consciences or minds, and reflect upon them. Behold, you
have no evidence, but I have the written testimony of all these, my
brethren, the Prophets of Israel, as testimony, and I have the testimony of
thunderings and lightnings which shall streak forth, and I have the
testimony of the earth which shall move to and fro as a drunken man in that
day, and I have the testimony of a voice which shook the ground upon which I
stood, and I have also the testimony of the Holy Ghost which dwelleth within
me to the confounding of the world, and death and hell, and the wicked and
unbelievers and scoffers, and I have the ministration of angels, one of
which hurled the Green Beret onto his back unhurt, and I have the testimony
of being removed from my body to behold His face, and I have the testimony
of speaking in the Adamic tongue for upwards of an hour while conversing
with Him in the Spirit of the Most High, and I have the testimony of my
laying my hands upon the Heroin addict whose heart was pure and who was
humble and desired a witness after baptism by immersion at my hands, and him
receiving in great power, the Holy Ghost and exclaiming aloud while under
the power thereof, and I have the testimony of laying my hands upon the sick
and they being healed, and I have the testimony of casting the devils out of
a young woman afflicted therewith and seeing with my own eyes them as they
left her in a fury, and departed, and the testimony of revelations and the
Spirit of Prophecy and the Spirit of Administration and Knowledge and Power.
And now what is it that you have against me? Nothing, save it be your word
only and your evil hearts of unbelief and darkness and confusion of mind and
the collective testimony of others like unto yourselves upon whom each of
you lean for support in your wickedness before the Lord. Are you not ripe
for destruction at the hands of the mighty ones who shall be unleashed by
the hand of Jehovah in that day, saith the Lord God, of Israel? Yea what
meanest thou, O man? Am I, the Lord God not able to discern between my
righteous servant and thy wickedness, O man, that ye perish because of
unbelief, and he be saved up into my presence? For I, a man, say unto you in
the name of the Most High who hath spoken unto me that you all shall be
destroyed by devouring fire, if it is that you repent not of your unbelief
and wickedness in these things and come down in the depths of humility and
be baptized for a remission of sins, and then go to with thy might to build
Zion. For you are possessed of a lying spirit and you have put off the
Spirit of God, that the evil one has power over you to carry you about this
way and that according as he will, with your false religions and other
traditions that are false and your evolution which you think frees you to
lift your head in wickedness and deny the God that made you, and your false
prophets whom ye sustain in your churches, and your lying newsmen who write
lies to get gain, I say unto you in the heat and passion of my soul, that
you have caused a great curse to come upon the land, and have caused my God
to speak unto me that I should come out unto you and prophesy of a great
evil which shall befall the inhabitants of this land, except they repent. I
say unto you in the name of Messiah, that if you will put off your sins and
humble yourselves before me who hath been sent unto you with a message from
your Creator, that you shall each of you receive the Holy Ghost and each of
you shall behold for yourselves that the way of which I speak, which is
straight and narrow, which leads unto the Eternal Lives is true. If any man
know of my doctrine, whether it be of me or of the Father, let him live it.
And not only these things, but the motion of the earth and the planets which
move in their regular orbits and seasons, all denote that there is a God.
Jacob 7:5
5 And he had hope to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many
revelations and the many things which I had seen concerning these things;
for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I
had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to
time; wherefore, I could not be shaken.
Elder Adney Y. Komatsu, Looking to the Savior, Ensign (CR), May 1987, p.78
Throughout the thousand years of Book of Mormon history, many prophets bore
solemn witness of the divinity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, of His
premortal godhood, of His earthly ministryHis suffering, His death, His
resurrectionand of the plan of salvation by which we can make His atonement
effective in our lives. These prophets spoke from pure knowledge, knowledge
that came by personal visitations of the Savior to them, by the testimony of
angels who spoke with them, by visions, and by the power of the Holy Ghost.
They knew whereof they spoke and could not be shaken from their testimonies.
And he had hope to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many
revelations and the many things which I had seen concerning these things;
for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I
had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to
time; wherefore, I could not be shaken (Jacob 7:5).
Book of Mormon Reference Companion1
The final chapter recounts Jacob's confron-tation with Sherem, a powerful
speaker who had convinced many that the doctrine of Christ was blasphemy,
that it perverted the "right way of God" as embodied in the law of Moses,
and that no man could know the future, including the predicted birth of
Christ (Jacob 7:7). But Jacob could not be shaken, for he had "seen angels,"
"heard the voice of the Lord," and felt pro-phe-cies of Christ confirmed "by
the power of the Holy Ghost" (Jacob 7:5, 12). He so testified to Sherem, who
was smitten by God and died, after first publicly recanting his lies. The
people then repented and turned again to God and the scriptures.
John Taylor, The Government of God, p.106
"This is one of the most important subjects upon which the human mind can
contemplate; and one perhaps as little understood, in the present age, as
any other now lying over the face of prophecy. But however neglected at the
present time, it was once the ground-work of the faith, hope, and joy of the
Saints. It was a correct understanding of this subject, and firm belief in
it, that influenced all their movements. Their minds once fastening upon it,
they could not be shaken from their purposes; their faith was firm, their
joy constant, and their hope like an anchor to the soul, both sure and
stedfast, reaching to that within the veil. It was this that enabled them to
rejoice in the midst of tribulation, persecution, sword, and flame; and in
view of this, they took joyfully the spoiling of their goods, and gladly
wandered as strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they sought a country,
a city, and an inheritance, that none but a Saint ever thought of,
understood, or even hoped for.
Jeffrey R. Holland, Christ and the New Covenant: The Messianic Message of
the Book of Mormon, p.60
In every way Jacob was a worthy successor to Nephi and a
[pagebreak]well-prepared witness to Christ's divine role in Book of Mormon
times and teachings. As he would later say to the anti-Christ Sherem about
the divine knowledge and variety of evidence he had received, "I truly had
seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the
voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to time;
wherefore, I could not be shaken. . . .
Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah: The First Coming of Christ, p.502
Those of Israel who, by the time Jesus began his ministry, had not been
scattered among all people and on the isles of the sea; those who then dwelt
in their promised Canaan and in Jerusalem, the city of the Great King; those
who then looked for the coming of a Messiah, to save and deliver and redeem;
those who considered themselves to be the chosen people and who looked upon
all others as outside the pale of saving grace; those to whom the Messiah
did in fact come and by whom he was summarily rejected-this race and
assemblage of people believed, with a fixity and determination that could
not be shaken, that their Messiah would come to save them, and them alone,
and that for the Gentiles there was no hope. In their darkened state they
failed utterly to understand the Messianic utterances relative to salvation
going to the Gentiles, and of the Messiah being the God of the whole earth
and not of them only. It is to this concept and to these scriptures that we
will now give attention.
Neal A. Maxwell, We Talk of Christ, We Rejoice in Christ, p.144
JEFFREY: As we talk, it seems important to note that when one's conversion
is full, one is also anchored in a base of valid, personal spiritual
experiences. Jacob wrote: "He had hoped to shake me from the faith,
notwithstanding the many revelations and the many things which I had seen
concerning these things; for I truly had seen angels, and they had
ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking
unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I could not be shaken."
(Jacob 7:5.)
James B. Allen and Glen M. Leonard, The Story of the Latter-day Saints, 2nd
ed., rev. and enl., p.327,427
The years from 1856 to 1862 were indeed years of stress and trial for the
Latter-day Saints. Most of them lived their religion well, and impressed
those who observed them, but a few sometimes made mistakes that marred the
Church's public image and acceptance. The period was one of mutual
misunderstanding and misinformation between the Saints in Utah and the
government in Washington. As a result, these years saw Brigham Young
replaced as governor, the morality and loyalty of the Saints drawn into
question nationwide, an army dispatched to Utah, thirty thousand Saints
leaving and preparing to burn their homes if the invasion took place, a
brutal massacre by a handful of overzealous Saints, and a second military
unit occupying the territory at the beginning of the Civil War. Yet the
Church not only survived but continued to grow. Its isolation, however, was
ending, and ensuing years would see the Saints respond with redoubled
efforts to build a kingdom that could not be shaken in either its spiritual
strength or its economic and political influence.
The Church continued to make converts in its organized European missions,
and many continued to emigrate. In general, however, the flow to Utah
declined in the 1890s, dropping to half that of the previous decade. One
reason was the dissolution of the Perpetual Emigrating Fund Company under
the Edmunds-Tucker Law. Another was that the Church itself began to change
its policy toward immigration. The colonization era was over, and economic
opportunities for immigrants in Utah were becoming more limited. The
original purpose of immigration, filling the region with Latter-day Saints
so that the kingdom could not be shaken loose again, had been fulfilled. By
the end of the decade Church leaders were beginning to encourage the Saints
abroad to realize that emigration would not solve their economic problems.
In 1898 President George Q. Cannon remarked in October conference that they
had been counseling the Saints in other lands to "remain quiet for a while;
to not be anxious to break up their homes to gather to Zion." With changing
times and changing needs, this and other policies of the Church were also
changing. Henceforth more attention would be paid to building Zion in other
lands and in the hearts of the Saints, as the closing of the pioneer era
foreshadowed greater efforts at internationalization.
Heroes from the Book of Mormon , p.33
Unfortunately Sherem enjoyed some success. He was, Jacob said, "learned,
[having] a perfect knowledge of the language of the people; wherefore, he
could use much flattery, and much power of speech, according to the power of
the devil" (Jacob 7:4).With an arrogance often prevalent in the deceived,
he had sought many opportunities to confront no less a man than Jacob
himself, the great high priest of the day and the spiritual leader of the
Church. Sherem sought such an opportunity with the hope that he might, by
Jacob's own admission, "shake me from the faith." But Jacob was manifestly
the wrong man to confront in such a matter, and Sherem lived-or, more
precisely, died-to regret his meeting with this remarkable prophet, a man
who had had "many revelations [and] had seen angels, and they had
administered unto me. And also I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking
unto me in very word from time to time; wherefore I could not be shaken."
(Jacob 7:5; emphasis added.)
Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate, Jr., eds., Jacob through Words of
Mormon: To Learn with Joy, p.48,184,266
Jacob's entire life is a reflection of his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
He explains that when Sherem the anti-Christ sought him out it was in the
"hope to shake me from the faith," because Sherem knew that "I, Jacob had
faith in Christ who should come" (Jacob 7:3-5). However, Jacob had had "many
revelations," and had "truly seen angels" and had "heard the voice of the
Lord speaking unto [him] in very word, from time to time; wherefore [he]
could not be shaken" (Jacob 7:5).
Having described Sherem's power of persuasion, Jacob noted: "And he had hope
to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many revelations and the
many things which I had seen concerning these things; for I truly had seen
angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of
the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I
could not be shaken" (Jacob 7:5; emphasis added). Jacob here provides a
marvelous pattern for steadfastness in the face of spiritual persecution and
intellectual challenge. Only when we have drunk deeply of the waters of
life-when we have been grounded in revealed theology, rooted in genuine
spiritual experience, and established in the things of God-can we hope to
withstand the burning rays of doubt and the scorching thirst of skepticism.
To be able to meet the snide remarks of the cynical head on, to be able to
bear witness of the truth in the face of ridicule, and to give no heed to
the enticing and otherwise convincing voices of the worldly-wise are,
according to Joseph F. Smith, to have entered into the "rest of the Lord,"
to have partaken of the "spiritual rest and peace which are born from a
settled conviction of the truth" (126). To enter the rest of the Lord "means
entering into the knowledge and love of God, having faith in his purpose and
in his plan, to such an extent that we know we are right, and that we are
not hunting for something else, we are not disturbed by every wind of
doctrine, or by the cunning and craftiness of men who lie in wait to
deceive." To enter into the rest of the Lord is to enjoy "rest from doubt,
from fear, from apprehension of danger, rest from the religious turmoil of
the world" (Smith 58). After Enos, the son of Jacob, had prayed without
ceasing; after he had wrestled in mighty supplication to the God of his
fathers; after he had searched and pondered and inquired with a fervor known
only to the spiritually hungry; then the voice of the Lord came to him,
announced that his sins were forgiven, and regenerated his soul. "And after
I, Enos, had heard these words, my faith began to be unshaken in the Lord"
(Enos 1:11; emphasis added). Again we note that it is through being
introduced into the realm of the sacred that one is able to proceed
confidently and unimpeded when confronted by the profane.
4. Jacob was visited by Christ. In this respect, he was not a whit behind
his brother. Interestingly, it is Nephi who tells us of that experience in a
tribute to his younger sibling: "Jacob also has seen him [the Christ] as I
have seen him" (2 Nephi 11:3; see 2 Nephi 2:4). Jacob's writings are full of
the testimony of Christ. Indeed, he is the first Nephite prophet to whom the
name "Christ" is revealed (2 Nephi 10:3). His sermon disclosing the Lord's
saving name seems to set the agenda for the rest of 2 Nephi. Nephi, too,
quotes extensively from Isaiah about the scattering and gathering of Israel
and concentrates on the "doctrine of Christ" (31:2), and he charges his
brother to "touch upon" this topic "as much as it were possible, for
Christ's sake," in order to persuade "all men [to] believe in Christ, and
view his death, and suffer his cross, and bear the shame of the world"
(Jacob 1:4, 8). Jacob amply fulfills this charge. He writes so that his
posterity might look upon their first parents "with joy and not with sorrow,
neither with contempt, . . . that they may know that we knew of Christ, and
we had a hope of his glory many hundred years before his coming" (Jacob
4:3-4). "For why not speak of the atonement of Christ?" Jacob asks (4:12),
and speaks of it again and again. Appropriately, the last glimpse we have of
Jacob's life concerns his refutation of Sherem, the anti-Christ. Jacob
"could not be shaken" (7:5) by Sherem because he had "heard and seen" the
Lord (7:12). This sure testimony of Christ underlies all Jacob's writing.
No One Can Take Your Place (S. Dew)1
Jacob didn't flinch when confronted by the articulate, intelligent Sherem,
the anti-Christ, who knew how to draw upon the power of the devil (see Jacob
7:4). Jacob wasn't confused, distracted, or deceived. By his own account he
explained why: "And [Sherem] had hope to shake me from the faith,
notwithstanding the many revelations and the many things which I had seen .
.. . for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also,
I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time
to time; wherefore, I could not be shaken" (Jacob 7:5).
Parley P. Pratt, A Voice of Warning , p.88
This is one of the most important subjects upon which the human mind can
contemplate; and one, perhaps, as little understood in the present age as
any other now lying over the face of prophecy. But however neglected at the
present time, it was once the groundwork of the faith, hope, and joy of the
Saints. It was a correct understanding of this subject, and firm belief in
it, that influenced all their movements. Their minds once fastening upon it,
they could not be shaken from their purposes; their faith was firm, their
joy constant, and their hope like an anchor to the soul, both sure and
steadfast, reaching to that within the veil. It was this that enabled them
to rejoice in the midst of tribulation, persecution, sword and flame; and in
view of this they took joyfully the spoiling of their goods, and gladly
wandered as strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they sought a country,
a city, and an inheritance that none but a saint ever thought of,
understood, or even hoped for.
Dawn Hall Anderson, Susette Fletcher Green, and Marie Cornwall, eds., Women
and Christ: Living the Abundant Life, p.20
"About one o'clock my mother suddenly remembered that I should have been in
bed hours before, but I could not be shaken till the conversation was ended.
I was afraid that I might miss something.
Neal A. Maxwell, All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience, p.40
Thus, Joseph's quality service to Potiphar and his management skills even in
the jail were a clear foreshadowing of his brilliant service later on as the
"prime minister" of the Pharaoh. But it all sprang from within; Joseph's
spiritual strength could not be shaken by things from outside.
Sterling W. Sill, Principles, Promises, and Powers, p.175
The old Roman statesman Cicero once pointed out that gratitude is the mother
of virtues. Almost every good thing comes from a grateful heart. I would
like to have a tree in my garden that would produce loyalty. So far as I
know, the greatest sins that have ever been known in the world have been the
sins of disloyalty. Lucifer was disloyal to God, and in his rebellion he
induced one-third of all of the children of God to turn away from their
Creator and lose their blessings. Judas sold Jesus for thirty pieces of
silver. Benedict Arnold was disloyal. The reason for many divorces and
spiritually bankrupt lives is disloyalty. How wonderful it would be if we
could produce in ourselves the kind of devotion to God seen in the great old
prophet Job. When his affairs were not going as they should, one of his
advisers said to him, "Curse God and die." But Job's faith could not be
shaken, and he said: "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him." (Job
13:15.)
Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the
Book of Mormon, 4 vols., 2:, p.37,82
6. In speaking of Sherem the anti-Christ, Jacob will yet say: "And he was
learned, that he had a perfect knowledge of the language of the people;
wherefore, he could use much flattery, and much power of speech, according
to the power of the devil. And he had hope to shake me from the faith,
notwithstanding the many revelations and the many things which I had seen
concerning these things; for I truly had seen angels, and they had
ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking
unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I could not be shaken."
(Jacob 7:4-5; italics added. Cf. Enos 1:10-11.) Escape from the burning rays
of doubt and the scorching thirst of skepticism is to be found through
imbibing the cooling waters of life. Those waters run deep in the life of
one who has paid the price of serious and meditative scripture study; who
has kept himself from the taints of the world of sin; and who has sought for
and obtained the gifts of the Spirit. That man or woman who enjoys regular
communion with the Lord through His Spirit is built upon a granite
foundation, a solid substructure upon which a house of faith can withstand
the heat of the day and the cold of the night.
5. And he had hope to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many
revelations and the many things which I had seen concerning these things;
for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I
had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to
time; wherefore, I could not be shaken.
Robert L. Millet, The Power of the Word: Saving Doctrines from the Book of
Mormon, p.53
Having described Sherem's power of persuasion, Jacob noted: "And he had hope
to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many revelations and the
many things which I had seen concerning these things; for I truly had seen
angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of
the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I
could not be shaken" (Jacob 7:5). Jacob here provides a marvelous pattern
for steadfastness in the face of spiritual persecution and intellectual
challenge. Only when we have drunk deeply of the waters of life-when we have
been grounded in revealed theology, rooted in genuine spiritual experience,
and established in the things of God-can we hope to withstand the burning
rays of doubt and the scorching thirst of skepticism.
Kent P. Jackson, ed., Studies in Scripture, Vol. 7: 1 Nephi to Alma 29,
p.180
Jacob noted, "The Lord God poured in his Spirit into my soul, insomuch that
I did confound [Sherem] in all his words." (Jacob 7:8.) Jacob asked Sherem,
"Deniest thou the Christ who shall come?" Sherem answered, "I know that
there is no Christ." Jacob inquired, "Believest thou the scriptures?" Sherem
said, "Yea." Jacob answered, "Then ye do not understand them; for they truly
testify of Christ." (Jacob 7:9-11.) Jacob told Sherem that the scriptures
testified of Christ and that "none of the prophets have written nor
prophesied, save they have spoken concerning this Christ." (Jacob 7:11.)
Jacob ended the confrontation with his own special witness: "I have heard
and seen; and it also has been made manifest unto me by the power of the
Holy Ghost; wherefore, I know if there should be no atonement made all
mankind must be lost." (Jacob 7:12.) Jacob had received many revelations of
the things of God. As he said: "I truly had seen angels, and they had
ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking
unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I could not be shaken."
(Jacob 7:5.) Jacob had seen the Savior and beheld his mission in his youth.
(2 Ne. 2:3-4.) His personal reply to Sherem reveals the inner strength that
comes through belief and the reward of belief by God, who reveals himself to
a person. Once that revelation is given, the person comes to know, and his
"knowledge is perfect in that thing." (Alma 32:34.) Jacob had such revealed
knowledge of God, and therefore he could not be shaken. (2 Ne. 2:3-4.)
Book of Mormon (1830 Edition), p.141
AND now it came to pass that after some years had passed away, there came a
man among the people of Nephi, whose name was Sherem. And it came to pass
that he began to preach among the people, and to declare unto them that
there should be no Christ. And he preached many things which were flattering
unto the people; and this he done, that he might overthrow the doctrine of
Christ. And he labored diligently that he might lead away the hearts of the
people, insomuch that he did lead away many hearts; and he knowing that I,
Jacob, had faith in Christ which should come, wherefore, he sought much
opportunity that he might come unto me. And he was learned, that he had a
perfect knowledge of the language of the people; wherefore, he could use
much flattery, and much power of speech, according to the power of the
Devil. And he had hoped to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many
revelations, and the many things which I had seen concerning these things:
for I truly had seen Angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I
had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to
time; wherefore, I could not be shaken.
The Legends of the JewsVolume 4
Ruth's bearing and history were far different. She was determined to become
a Jewess, and her decision could not be shaken by what Naomi, in compliance
with the Jewish injunction, told her of the difficulties of the Jewish law.
Naomi warned her that the Israelites had been enjoined to keep Sabbaths and
feast days, and that the daughters of Israel were not in the habit of
frequenting the threatres and circuses of the heathen. Ruth only affirmed
her readiness to follow Jewish customs. And when Naomi said: "We have one
Torah, one law, one command; the Eternal our God is one, there is none
beside Him," Ruth answered: "Thy people shall be my people, thy God my God."
So the two women journeyed together to Bethlehem. They arrived there on the
very day on which the wife of Boaz was buried, and the concourse assembled
for the funeral saw Naomi as she returned to her home.
<checker@flapper.com> wrote in message
news:khkmd3lsqoso64gja13pelg73j4ua9kf71@4ax.com...

On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:22:56 -0700, "Art Bulla" <art@artbulla.com>
wrote:

More slander from the heathen.

We CHRISTIANS are not the ones starting a new religion, arty, YOU are.

We CHRISTIANS are not the ones pretending to be a "prophet," YOU are.

Matt 24:23-25

23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or
'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets
will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible,
even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
NKJV

In the Name of Jesus, (the REAL One, not the imaginary friend of arty
bulla and joe smith),
Checker

User: "Neil Kelsey"
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	04 Sep 2007 03:20:27 PM

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

You have no evidence that it IS true. THAT'S the problem. YOU need to
back your claims up with valid (and testimonials aren't valid)
evidence; it's not up to anyone else to do your work for you. Start
with the Holy Ghost. You says he's within you...where? In your head?
Is he invisible? How does he communicate with you? By telepathy?
*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*
.

User: "Aaron Kim"
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	06 Sep 2007 05:21:12 PM

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art is a
true Prophet from the Spirit. I encourage people visit his website
www.artbulla.com and investigate the information and pray to God about it.
.

User: "Neil Kelsey"
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	06 Sep 2007 06:31:38 PM

On Sep 6, 3:21 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY

What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the agency of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by right,
is
not true?

*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art is a
true Prophet from the Spirit.

Testimony is acceptable evidence for gullible people only. Let me ask
you this; Charles Manson's followers gave testimony that he was
innocent. By your reasoning, Charles Manson was innocent just because
they gave testimony to that effect. How could anyone ever decide a
court case with your approach? You'd have to believe BOTH sides,
because both sides are giving testimony.
Why should I believe your testimony and not the testimony of the
Manson family? The evidence you both supply to support your testimony
is equally non-existent. In face, the Manson family's claims were way
LESS unbelievable than your testimony, because you are invoking the
supernatural. At least Charles Manson exists.
If I were you, I'd rethink just about everything if I were shown to
have less credibility than the Manson Family.
.

User: "Aaron Kim"
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	07 Sep 2007 04:33:28 PM

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189121498.848396.140390@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 6, 3:21 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY

What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the agency
of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by
right,
is
not true?

*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is
hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art is a
true Prophet from the Spirit.

Testimony is acceptable evidence for gullible people only. Let me ask
you this; Charles Manson's followers gave testimony that he was
innocent. By your reasoning, Charles Manson was innocent just because
they gave testimony to that effect. How could anyone ever decide a
court case with your approach? You'd have to believe BOTH sides,
because both sides are giving testimony.

Why should I believe your testimony and not the testimony of the
Manson family? The evidence you both supply to support your testimony
is equally non-existent. In face, the Manson family's claims were way
LESS unbelievable than your testimony, because you are invoking the
supernatural. At least Charles Manson exists.

If I were you, I'd rethink just about everything if I were shown to
have less credibility than the Manson Family.

Comparing Charles Manson to Art is like comparing apples with oranges. Just
because some testimonies are false doesn't make every testimony false. You
have to take it case by case. Art's testimony is very well reasoned and
coherent. He is not corrupt like Charles Manson.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	11 Sep 2007 12:19:55 PM

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:33:28 -0700, "Aaron Kim" <aaron@artbulla.com>
wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189121498.848396.140390@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 6, 3:21 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY

What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the agency
of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by
right,
is
not true?

*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is
hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art is a
true Prophet from the Spirit.

Testimony is acceptable evidence for gullible people only. Let me ask
you this; Charles Manson's followers gave testimony that he was
innocent. By your reasoning, Charles Manson was innocent just because
they gave testimony to that effect. How could anyone ever decide a
court case with your approach? You'd have to believe BOTH sides,
because both sides are giving testimony.

Why should I believe your testimony and not the testimony of the
Manson family? The evidence you both supply to support your testimony
is equally non-existent. In face, the Manson family's claims were way
LESS unbelievable than your testimony, because you are invoking the
supernatural. At least Charles Manson exists.

If I were you, I'd rethink just about everything if I were shown to
have less credibility than the Manson Family.

Aaaah, that is the crux of the matter. Such "testimonies" are a dime
a dozen, telling truth OR lies. Therefore they are NOT proof of
anything.
You have shot yourself in the foot, kim.
in the Name of Jesus Christ (the REAL One, not joe smith's made-up
buddy),
Checker
.

User: "Smiler"
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	11 Sep 2007 06:55:44 PM

<checker@flapper.com> wrote in message
news:3fjde3567ojhq2qv67vcmhrlprnr4s298o@4ax.com...

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:33:28 -0700, "Aaron Kim" <aaron@artbulla.com>
wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189121498.848396.140390@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 6, 3:21 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY

What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the
agency
of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by
right,
is
not true?

*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is
hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art is
a
true Prophet from the Spirit.

Testimony is acceptable evidence for gullible people only. Let me ask
you this; Charles Manson's followers gave testimony that he was
innocent. By your reasoning, Charles Manson was innocent just because
they gave testimony to that effect. How could anyone ever decide a
court case with your approach? You'd have to believe BOTH sides,
because both sides are giving testimony.

Why should I believe your testimony and not the testimony of the
Manson family? The evidence you both supply to support your testimony
is equally non-existent. In face, the Manson family's claims were way
LESS unbelievable than your testimony, because you are invoking the
supernatural. At least Charles Manson exists.

If I were you, I'd rethink just about everything if I were shown to
have less credibility than the Manson Family.

Comparing Charles Manson to Art is like comparing apples with oranges.
Just
because some testimonies are false doesn't make every testimony false. You
have to take it case by case. Art's testimony is very well reasoned and
coherent. He is not corrupt like Charles Manson.

Aaaah, that is the crux of the matter. Such "testimonies" are a dime
a dozen, telling truth OR lies. Therefore they are NOT proof of
anything.

You have shot yourself in the foot, kim.

in the Name of Jesus Christ (the REAL One, not joe smith's made-up
buddy),

The real one is not the one made-up by Joe Smith, but the one made-up by the
gospel writers.
I seeeeeee.
What proof do you have that your made-up Jesus is any more real than their
made-up Jesus?
When you realise why you reject their belief, you will understand why we
also reject your belief.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.

User: ""
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	12 Sep 2007 09:43:36 AM

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:55:44 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:

<checker@flapper.com> wrote in message
news:3fjde3567ojhq2qv67vcmhrlprnr4s298o@4ax.com...

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:33:28 -0700, "Aaron Kim" <aaron@artbulla.com>
wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189121498.848396.140390@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 6, 3:21 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY

What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the
agency
of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by
right,
is
not true?

*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is
hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art is
a
true Prophet from the Spirit.

Testimony is acceptable evidence for gullible people only. Let me ask
you this; Charles Manson's followers gave testimony that he was
innocent. By your reasoning, Charles Manson was innocent just because
they gave testimony to that effect. How could anyone ever decide a
court case with your approach? You'd have to believe BOTH sides,
because both sides are giving testimony.

Why should I believe your testimony and not the testimony of the
Manson family? The evidence you both supply to support your testimony
is equally non-existent. In face, the Manson family's claims were way
LESS unbelievable than your testimony, because you are invoking the
supernatural. At least Charles Manson exists.

If I were you, I'd rethink just about everything if I were shown to
have less credibility than the Manson Family.

Comparing Charles Manson to Art is like comparing apples with oranges.
Just
because some testimonies are false doesn't make every testimony false. You
have to take it case by case. Art's testimony is very well reasoned and
coherent. He is not corrupt like Charles Manson.

Aaaah, that is the crux of the matter. Such "testimonies" are a dime
a dozen, telling truth OR lies. Therefore they are NOT proof of
anything.

You have shot yourself in the foot, kim.

in the Name of Jesus Christ (the REAL One, not joe smith's made-up
buddy),

The real one is not the one made-up by Joe Smith, but the one made-up by the
gospel writers.
I seeeeeee.
What proof do you have that your made-up Jesus is any more real than their
made-up Jesus?

We accept the evidence provided by multiple witnesses that He is.
Witnesses such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, Paul, Peter, etc
etc etc. Other witnesses who did not believe He was the messiah, but
talked about him like Josephus who acknowledged His existance and even
that it looked like He did the miracles.

When you realise why you reject their belief, you will understand why we
also reject your belief.

Sorry smiler, but I DO understand why you reject it:
1 Cor 2:14-15
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of
God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because
they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV
John 6:44
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and
I will raise him up at the last day.
NKJV
John 6:65
"Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has
been granted to him by My Father."
NKJV
But who knows, perhaps you will someday discover Him calling you, and
you will KNOW for certain it is true.
Maybe not, but maybe. Who knows?
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
.

User: "Smiler"
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	12 Sep 2007 07:04:17 PM

<checker@flapper.com> wrote in message
news:mhufe3d104l03r614inphhp6v53ke5fmju@4ax.com...

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:55:44 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote:

<checker@flapper.com> wrote in message
news:3fjde3567ojhq2qv67vcmhrlprnr4s298o@4ax.com...

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:33:28 -0700, "Aaron Kim" <aaron@artbulla.com>
wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189121498.848396.140390@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 6, 3:21 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:

"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1188937227.169588.149690@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 4, 10:23 am, "Art Bulla" <a...@artbulla.com> wrote:

EVIDENCE AND A PROPHECY

What evidence do you have that what I have declared through the
agency
of
the Holy Ghost, which is my constant companion by ordinance and by
right,
is
not true?

You have no evidence that it IS true. THAT'S the problem. YOU need
to
back your claims up with valid (and testimonials aren't valid)
evidence; it's not up to anyone else to do your work for you. Start
with the Holy Ghost. You says he's within you...where? In your
head?
Is he invisible? How does he communicate with you? By telepathy?

*snip tedious stream of unconciousness rant*

Of course you have your head so far up your ***** with Darwinism, it is
hard
for you to see the truth in Art's words. I have a testimony that Art
is
a
true Prophet from the Spirit.

Testimony is acceptable evidence for gullible people only. Let me ask
you this; Charles Manson's followers gave testimony that he was
innocent. By your reasoning, Charles Manson was innocent just because
they gave testimony to that effect. How could anyone ever decide a
court case with your approach? You'd have to believe BOTH sides,
because both sides are giving testimony.

Why should I believe your testimony and not the testimony of the
Manson family? The evidence you both supply to support your testimony
is equally non-existent. In face, the Manson family's claims were way
LESS unbelievable than your testimony, because you are invoking the
supernatural. At least Charles Manson exists.

If I were you, I'd rethink just about everything if I were shown to
have less credibility than the Manson Family.

Comparing Charles Manson to Art is like comparing apples with oranges.
Just
because some testimonies are false doesn't make every testimony false.
You
have to take it case by case. Art's testimony is very well reasoned and
coherent. He is not corrupt like Charles Manson.

Aaaah, that is the crux of the matter. Such "testimonies" are a dime
a dozen, telling truth OR lies. Therefore they are NOT proof of
anything.

You have shot yourself in the foot, kim.

in the Name of Jesus Christ (the REAL One, not joe smith's made-up
buddy),

The real one is not the one made-up by Joe Smith, but the one made-up by
the
gospel writers.
I seeeeeee.
What proof do you have that your made-up Jesus is any more real than their
made-up Jesus?

We accept the evidence provided by multiple witnesses that He is.

How do you know that any of these 'witnesses' were more reliable than Joseph
Smith?

Witnesses such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, Paul, Peter, etc
etc etc.

All written at least 70 years after the supposed Jesus' supposed death.
Remember that the average lifespan in those days was around 40 years.
Other witnesses who did not believe He was the messiah, but

talked about him like Josephus who acknowledged His existance and even
that it looked like He did the miracles.

The passage in Josephus is widely accepted as a later Xian insertion.
Josephus, a Jew, would not have called Jesus "Christ", as to him, that would
have been heresy.

When you realise why you reject their belief, you will understand why we
also reject your belief.

Sorry smiler, but I DO understand why you reject it:

But who knows, perhaps you will someday discover Him calling you, and
you will KNOW for certain it is true.

In which case, I will book myself into a mental hospital..."Doctor, I keep
hearing voices in my head!"

Maybe not, but maybe. Who knows?

Who knows, you could 'find' a Leprechaun and he will lead you to his pot of
gold at the end of the rainbow?
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.

User: ""
Title: Re: What is the Evidence Do You Have Against Me?	14 Sep 2007 09:06:59 AM

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:04:17 GMT, "Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com>
wrote: