Religions > Atheism > What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
07 Jun 2007 11:04:56 PM |
| Object: |
What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
10 Conclusions helped me overcome the religious
indoctrination and brainwashing from early childhood:
1. All religions and all gods are manmade. Made and made up
by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result
of (new) ideas and concepts that evolved and were then
accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life,
the (new) gospel, the (new) true religion.
2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable.
Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution
was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal)
suddenly inserted in a certain species at a discrete point in time.
If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living
being, e.g. 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his
or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.
This means:
All living beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. As I
don't believe a worm has a soul, I must conclude that the concept
of a soul in each human being can only be a manmade construct.
A manmade construct because we have a need to believe that
we (or at least our 'spirit' or our 'soul') will exist forever.
We fear death, we fear being gone forever.
We want to deny death, we need to believe we are immortal.
We do not want to accept that we may be a fluke of nature.
We have a need to fabricate a reason for our existence.
3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are manmade, and
the concepts of heaven and hell are manmade. They were created
when social groups evolved culturally: To keep individual behavior in
line and within boundaries - to be beneficial to the group or to
its leaders. Heaven was a carrot, hell was the stick.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, with human beings having free choice
to obey or disobey, is untenable, as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings
(mammals with increased brain size) came about.
That means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete
point where the 'first' human being suddenly had free choice to obey
or disobey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross
to atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
The manmade Christian God sacrificed his son to atone for all
sins forever for all times. That brilliant idea arose from much older
pagan religions that had human sacrifices at their core. The ultimate
sacrifice for redemption was to offer your own son, as in the
Abraham-Isaac story. That's why Christ - the Son - was
offered by the Father and had to die for all mankind.
As homo sapiens evolved over millions of years, there was
never an Adam and Eve 6000 years ago. That means Eve disobeying
God and eating from the fruit never happened. That means the 'fall'
in the garden of Eden never happened. That also means a 'fall' e.g.
a million years earlier never happened. That means the philosophy
of Christ having to die for our original sin, for us disobeying God,
has no basis in fact. Our ancestors millions of years ago did
not have the brains or the choice to obey or disobey.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved by accepting
Christ as your savior is untenable. As over 4.5 billion on earth are
not Christians and don't even know about Jesus Christ,
it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns
4.5 billion out of 6.5 billion to hell = eternal suffering.
In addition, there are 200 billion stars in our own galaxy,
with probably at least 1 billion inhabited planets.
It is also illogical to assume that God sacrificed his son on
1 billion planets. And that is only in our own galaxy.
6. All religions are manmade, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society develops beliefs about life and
death, which then often morph into absolute beliefs and then
into structured beliefs = religion. That's why there are so
many religions, so many spin-offs of existing religions, and why so
many new spin-offs and denominations are created all the time,
all over the world. There are always new thinkers, with new ideas.
7. All religions and their spin-offs are manmade, and the concept of
'God' including the 'God' of Christianity, Islam and Judaism is man
made.
As nowhere in the material world we see physical acts/actions by
a 'God' on matter, there is no reason to assume that an 'immaterial'
God like the Christian God (who controls, guards, acts on matter
= interferes in our world) exists.
8. So we have to face the fact, with courage, and conclude that:
GOD IS ABSENT, IS DEAD OR DOES NOT EXIST.
As I find it illogical that if an all powerful God existed, he would
decide to disappear from our material world = universe into some
other universe, or even die, i.e. disappear from all possible
universes, there is only one conclusion left:
There is no God applying material forces on or into our physical
environment. That means all physical and chemical occurrences
can be explained (sooner or later) without having to introduce a
supernatural and 'immaterial' being capable of and actively
acting on matter. Therefore the conclusion is that the Christian
God really does not exist.
You can only exist if you are matter or tied to matter.
You only exist if you can act upon matter. When tied to matter, it
can be observed, measured, etc., and thus be proven to exist.
Example:
In the tsunami near Sumatra up to 100,000 innocent children
were killed in just one hour.
'God' did not do it.
'Satan' did not do it.
Humans did not do it.
The earth core is cooling, forcing huge plates to move,
which occasionally rupture or fracture into earthquakes,
volcanic eruptions, etc., which then can cause terrible
natural catastrophes such as this tsunami.
Nowhere did or does the 'hand of God' act anywhere.
9. The mystery of matter and the most crucial question and
mystery of all
--- 'WHY WE (made of matter) EXIST' ----
does not mean we have to assume an all powerful being like the
Christian God who creates, controls, acts on matter,
and rules and monitors everything.
In the last 1000 years more and more mysteries have been explained.
In the coming thousands of years many more mysteries will be
resolved. That means religious beliefs get pushed back more and
more, away from the current simple absolute religious 'truths'
and beliefs as described in 'holy' books. Religions consist of a
mixture of man made philosophies, myths, theories,
taboos, legends, laws, remnants of pagan religions, etc.,
explanations from hundreds of years or even much longer ago,
and are being pushed back or voided by science and much
more rational explanations.
That also means a religion such as Christianity can only survive if
it develops a much better explanation and rationale for the mystery
of matter and life, and for our existence. However Christianity cannot
're-engineer' itself. It cannot offer a science-based explanation of
life, or even reform itself into a much more rational philosophy of
life.
So it will remain an anti-scientific belief system based on fixed
explanations for life and death, made by men and women
who lived hundreds and even thousands of years ago.
The contradiction between what we learn from science
and the fixed explanations from hundreds and thousands of years
ago will grow. Christianity and other similar religions likely will
slowly disappear. The deep psychological human need for spirituality
will not disappear, but the dogmas and beliefs of religions such
as Christianity, Islam and Judaism will become less and less
acceptable to more and more people.
10. The core issue is a direct conflict between:
o the religious/emotional/non-scientific approach or persona and
o the scientific/rational approach or persona
Spirituality will stay in various forms, but dogmatic religions based
on ancient beliefs will slowly disappear or remain with smaller
and smaller groups of the uneducated or un-enlightened
or the desperate or the frightened or the indoctrinated.
There may be long religious revivals and reactions but
on longer terms science and associated
education will (albeit slowly) void ancient belief systems.
However, religions can very well hang on for a long long time,
despite becoming unsatisfactory to more people, e.g. if
and when there are no other enticing spiritual/social frameworks
as substitutes or replacements. For scientists that could well be
science and the wonders, beauty, size and the mysteries of the
physical universe. But the masses are not well educated and will
never get enthralled by science or scientific exploration and thought.
This basic conflict is also why so many religions, including
Christianity, Judaism and Islam, in their core are so anti-science.
They can never embrace a much more rational belief system that so
clearly exposes the fallacies in their inherited belief system.
Michael M. Terra
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
09 Jun 2007 08:56:41 AM |
|
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<m9mckinley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181275496.196987.38360@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
10 Conclusions helped me overcome the religious
indoctrination and brainwashing from early childhood:
1. All religions and all gods are manmade. Made and made up
by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result
of (new) ideas and concepts that evolved and were then
accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life,
the (new) gospel, the (new) true religion.
Of course!! They come from men inspired by God. That's what the NT Bible
says, and which already shows that you didn't "overcome" any religious
brainwashing etc. but only your own childish interpretations.
2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable.
Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution
was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal)
suddenly inserted in a certain species at a discrete point in time.
The "soul" of your interpretation doesn't exist. Souls is nothing but
the conscious life animating your body, nothing more. Tere is nothing
untenable about it, unless you want to maintain that you don't actually live
consciously?
If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living
being, e.g. 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his
or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.
This means:
You "assume" wrongly.
All living beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. As I
don't believe a worm has a soul, I must conclude that the concept
of a soul in each human being can only be a manmade construct.
Of course a 'soul' is a "manmade construct", as all language is. What
else do you think it could be? The concept is just the name for conscious
being. And no, God did not come down from heaven and said: Thou shalt call
the life within a person a soul.
A manmade construct because we have a need to believe that
we (or at least our 'spirit' or our 'soul') will exist forever.
We fear death, we fear being gone forever.
We want to deny death, we need to believe we are immortal.
We do not want to accept that we may be a fluke of nature.
We have a need to fabricate a reason for our existence.
Mere speculation. It is God who made us and keeps us in being, even as
"a fluke of nature".
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Heaven and hell exist alright, as all who have been in love and war can
testify to. But again, it's just, that the heaven and hell of your
definition don't exist.
All religions are manmade, and
the concepts of heaven and hell are manmade. They were created
when social groups evolved culturally: To keep individual behavior in
line and within boundaries - to be beneficial to the group or to
its leaders. Heaven was a carrot, hell was the stick.
You keep reiterating this, as if some ignoramus taught you that God made
all of it without the participation of man. He did not.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, with human beings having free choice
to obey or disobey, is untenable, as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings
(mammals with increased brain size) came about.
That means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete
point where the 'first' human being suddenly had free choice to obey
or disobey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross
to atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
I see. You figure you are a slave to your lusts and can't disobey your
urges and not sin if you don't want to. That's a handy but fallacious
excuse. for God gave you the power to decide for yourself.
The manmade Christian God sacrificed his son to atone for all
sins forever for all times. That brilliant idea arose from much older
pagan religions that had human sacrifices at their core.
You forgot to finish your sentence with: ...and that's why it is
invalid. We look at it from the other end, and conclude that the more
religions make the same point, the more valid the point becomes. See Aldous
Huxley's 'Perennial Philosophy'.
The ultimate
sacrifice for redemption was to offer your own son, as in the
Abraham-Isaac story. That's why Christ - the Son - was
offered by the Father and had to die for all mankind.
As homo sapiens evolved over millions of years, there was
never an Adam and Eve 6000 years ago.
The Bible doesn't say that. For the Bible says, that "a day is like a
thousand years and a thousand years like a day".
That means Eve disobeying
God and eating from the fruit never happened. That means the 'fall'
in the garden of Eden never happened. That also means a 'fall' e.g.
a million years earlier never happened. That means the philosophy
of Christ having to die for our original sin, for us disobeying God,
has no basis in fact. Our ancestors millions of years ago did
not have the brains or the choice to obey or disobey.
ORIGINAL SIN
Gen 3:22-23 And the Lord God said: Behold, the man is become as one
of us, to know good from evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand, and
take also from the tree of life, and eat and live for ever, I will drive out
the man from the garden of Eden, to till the land from which he was taken.
Therefore ORIGINAL SIN is being judgmental and opinionated about
who, or what is good or evil. After eating the fruit (tasting the result) of
the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve made their first judgment:
"It is shameful and/or evil to be seen naked in public". To this day, most
people in the world still are of the very same opinion, though it is neither
logical nor reasonable.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved by accepting
Christ as your savior is untenable. As over 4.5 billion on earth are
not Christians and don't even know about Jesus Christ,
it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns
4.5 billion out of 6.5 billion to hell = eternal suffering.
In addition, there are 200 billion stars in our own galaxy,
with probably at least 1 billion inhabited planets.
It is also illogical to assume that God sacrificed his son on
1 billion planets. And that is only in our own galaxy.
All who are sons of God consciously, meaning like-minded will be saved,
even if they never knew Jesus Christ. None of those in opposition to God the
Father will be saved, even if they call themselves Christians.
6. All religions are manmade, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society develops beliefs about life and
death, which then often morph into absolute beliefs and then
into structured beliefs = religion. That's why there are so
many religions, so many spin-offs of existing religions, and why so
many new spin-offs and denominations are created all the time,
all over the world. There are always new thinkers, with new ideas.
You keep on now repeating yourself, meaning chant mantras i.e. that our
religion is man-made by the inspiration of God, already has been established
and we might as well quit here.
You need to get yourself some adult definitions that make religion
coherent to you, for all you object to are infantile concepts.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "jem" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
10 Jun 2007 08:31:23 AM |
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On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:56:41 -0400, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
<m9mckinley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181275496.196987.38360@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
10 Conclusions helped me overcome the religious
indoctrination and brainwashing from early childhood:
1. All religions and all gods are manmade. Made and made up
by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result
of (new) ideas and concepts that evolved and were then
accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life,
the (new) gospel, the (new) true religion.
Of course!! They come from men inspired by God. That's what the NT Bible
says, and which already shows that you didn't "overcome" any religious
brainwashing etc. but only your own childish interpretations.
The idea/concept came from men, a god is not required to create the
concept.
2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable.
Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution
was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal)
suddenly inserted in a certain species at a discrete point in time.
The "soul" of your interpretation doesn't exist. Souls is nothing but
the conscious life animating your body, nothing more. Tere is nothing
untenable about it, unless you want to maintain that you don't actually live
consciously?
Your narrow view is showing again. You don't even have the openness of
mind to allow that definitions other than your definition might be
plausible. Your certainty reveals a lack of ability to entertain
anything besides your specific thinking, if indeed it is thinking at
all. Defining soul as consciousness and then saying that because
consciousnous exists that proves souls exist according to your
definition is weak minded at best. That's no better than saying since
a viable concept of love exists, therefore there is a god.
So by your definition, is it correct to assume that the soul does not
exist once the life of the host stops?
If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living
being, e.g. 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his
or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.
This means:
You "assume" wrongly.
Your binary thinking is showing again.
All living beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. As I
don't believe a worm has a soul, I must conclude that the concept
of a soul in each human being can only be a manmade construct.
Of course a 'soul' is a "manmade construct", as all language is. What
else do you think it could be? The concept is just the name for conscious
being. And no, God did not come down from heaven and said: Thou shalt call
the life within a person a soul.
You are saying that the language, the actual word "soul" is manmade,
but the actual soul itself is made by god? It also appears that you
are contradicting your earlier statement about the concept was
inspired by god, by saying god never told anybody. Is this one of your
loosey goosey defintions whereby your circular reasoning seems like
proof to you?
A manmade construct because we have a need to believe that
we (or at least our 'spirit' or our 'soul') will exist forever.
We fear death, we fear being gone forever.
We want to deny death, we need to believe we are immortal.
We do not want to accept that we may be a fluke of nature.
We have a need to fabricate a reason for our existence.
Mere speculation. It is God who made us and keeps us in being, even as
"a fluke of nature".
You are having it both ways, if god made us it is not a fluke, if we
are a fluke then we can not be created by god. You have absolutely
zero evidence that god influences anything. Don't feel alone, nobody
else has ever come up with it either.
What you are calling speculation appears to be sound reasoning to me,
especially compared to "god did it" when you have no other
preconceived/canned answer. We like life very much, and where there is
desire, we plug in whatever comforts us, pretty simple but there is no
real evidence to the contrary. I mean actual evidence, not the "look
how beautiful the sunset is" or "I can think there is a god so there
is a god" etc.
3. There is no heaven and hell.
Heaven and hell exist alright, as all who have been in love and war can
testify to. But again, it's just, that the heaven and hell of your
definition don't exist.
Love exists, therefore there is a heaven. (replace "heaven" with "god"
for your proof god exists).
Atrocity/evil/misery exists, therefore there is a hell.
What those people are actually testifying to is that they really like
the feeling and experience of love, and really hate the violence,
pain, and various miseries of war. Part of the human experience, not
more than that.
Neither of those things prove anything about heaven and hell, except
in your simple minded equation.
All religions are manmade, and
the concepts of heaven and hell are manmade. They were created
when social groups evolved culturally: To keep individual behavior in
line and within boundaries - to be beneficial to the group or to
its leaders. Heaven was a carrot, hell was the stick.
You keep reiterating this, as if some ignoramus taught you that God made
all of it without the participation of man. He did not.
Man made it without participation from god. Irrelevant if god even
exists regarding the creation of the concepts.
4. The Christian dogma of sin, with human beings having free choice
to obey or disobey, is untenable, as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings
(mammals with increased brain size) came about.
That means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete
point where the 'first' human being suddenly had free choice to obey
or disobey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross
to atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
I see. You figure you are a slave to your lusts and can't disobey your
urges and not sin if you don't want to. That's a handy but fallacious
excuse. for God gave you the power to decide for yourself.
No, you don't see, you twist. Religionists claim their religion is
what gives them morals, strength, love and everything else real,
imagined, or conceptual under the sun. Without that religion it is the
believers that think they will have no ability to control evil in
themselves. It is a big clue that believers do not have any true
mental discipline. Our brains, that biological thing in our heads
gives us the power to decide for ourselves.
You can't disconnect your brain from the virtual umbilical cord it
feeds off.
The manmade Christian God sacrificed his son to atone for all
sins forever for all times. That brilliant idea arose from much older
pagan religions that had human sacrifices at their core.
You forgot to finish your sentence with: ...and that's why it is
invalid. We look at it from the other end, and conclude that the more
religions make the same point, the more valid the point becomes. See Aldous
Huxley's 'Perennial Philosophy'.
A valid point is that christianity is not original, it co-opted many
things in its development, much of it ludicrous. Another valid point
is that argument from numbers is fallacious.
The ultimate
sacrifice for redemption was to offer your own son, as in the
Abraham-Isaac story. That's why Christ - the Son - was
offered by the Father and had to die for all mankind.
As homo sapiens evolved over millions of years, there was
never an Adam and Eve 6000 years ago.
The Bible doesn't say that. For the Bible says, that "a day is like a
thousand years and a thousand years like a day".
It also says you should hate your entire family before you can join
jesus.
It also says you shouldn't even be posting here:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your
house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Who really gives a ***** what this idiotic book says? When you have to
brush aside 300 stupid things to find something good, it's a shitty
collection of absurdities. Without the all-powerful jesus blinders,
the book is a sorry piece of *****.
That means Eve disobeying
God and eating from the fruit never happened. That means the 'fall'
in the garden of Eden never happened. That also means a 'fall' e.g.
a million years earlier never happened. That means the philosophy
of Christ having to die for our original sin, for us disobeying God,
has no basis in fact. Our ancestors millions of years ago did
not have the brains or the choice to obey or disobey.
ORIGINAL SIN
Gen 3:22-23 And the Lord God said: Behold, the man is become as one
of us, to know good from evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand, and
take also from the tree of life, and eat and live for ever, I will drive out
the man from the garden of Eden, to till the land from which he was taken.
Therefore ORIGINAL SIN is being judgmental and opinionated about
who, or what is good or evil. After eating the fruit (tasting the result) of
the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve made their first judgment:
"It is shameful and/or evil to be seen naked in public". To this day, most
people in the world still are of the very same opinion, though it is neither
logical nor reasonable.
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved by accepting
Christ as your savior is untenable. As over 4.5 billion on earth are
not Christians and don't even know about Jesus Christ,
it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns
4.5 billion out of 6.5 billion to hell = eternal suffering.
In addition, there are 200 billion stars in our own galaxy,
with probably at least 1 billion inhabited planets.
It is also illogical to assume that God sacrificed his son on
1 billion planets. And that is only in our own galaxy.
All who are sons of God consciously, meaning like-minded will be saved,
even if they never knew Jesus Christ. None of those in opposition to God the
Father will be saved, even if they call themselves Christians.
Something that exists can be opposed. If it does not exist than only
its concept can be supported, believed, questioned, refuted, rebutted,
or opposed.
Your threats are meaningless.
6. All religions are manmade, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society develops beliefs about life and
death, which then often morph into absolute beliefs and then
into structured beliefs = religion. That's why there are so
many religions, so many spin-offs of existing religions, and why so
many new spin-offs and denominations are created all the time,
all over the world. There are always new thinkers, with new ideas.
You keep on now repeating yourself, meaning chant mantras i.e. that our
religion is man-made by the inspiration of God, already has been established
and we might as well quit here.
You need to get yourself some adult definitions that make religion
coherent to you, for all you object to are infantile concepts.
You are repeating scripture written many centuries ago, ad naseum, and
you state it is unbelievers that chant mantra, that's pretty
hypocritical of you.
You can't even read without injecting jesus/god into an atheist's
statement. Atheists do not say that religion is man made "by the
inspiration of god". It isn't even implied.
Religion itself is infantile. Making religion coherent is an exercise
in mental masturbation. You spilleth your seed on fantasy.....
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
10 Jun 2007 06:07:47 PM |
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"jem" <A0054883@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:asqn63ptdt69b5u78obmgsdurqj7n35e00@4ax.com...
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:56:41 -0400, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
<m9mckinley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181275496.196987.38360@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
10 Conclusions helped me overcome the religious
indoctrination and brainwashing from early childhood:
1. All religions and all gods are manmade. Made and made up
by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result
of (new) ideas and concepts that evolved and were then
accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life,
the (new) gospel, the (new) true religion.
Of course!! They come from men inspired by God. That's what the NT
Bible
says, and which already shows that you didn't "overcome" any religious
brainwashing etc. but only your own childish interpretations.
The idea/concept came from men, a god is not required to create the
concept.
Like I said, your definition of the word "god" is sure not to exist. Our
God represent ideals of perfection, and those DO exist. I.e. Our Christian
"God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ giving
His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We therefore know our God
and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10) and we are inspired to emulate
our God.
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "jem" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
16 Jun 2007 07:29:24 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:07:47 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"jem" <A0054883@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:asqn63ptdt69b5u78obmgsdurqj7n35e00@4ax.com...
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:56:41 -0400, "Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu>
wrote:
<m9mckinley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181275496.196987.38360@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
10 Conclusions helped me overcome the religious
indoctrination and brainwashing from early childhood:
1. All religions and all gods are manmade. Made and made up
by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result
of (new) ideas and concepts that evolved and were then
accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life,
the (new) gospel, the (new) true religion.
Of course!! They come from men inspired by God. That's what the NT
Bible
says, and which already shows that you didn't "overcome" any religious
brainwashing etc. but only your own childish interpretations.
The idea/concept came from men, a god is not required to create the
concept.
Like I said, your definition of the word "god" is sure not to exist.
My definition exists, your definition exists, but that's as far as its
existence gets, because the god does not exist, only the myth lives.
Our
God represent ideals of perfection, and those DO exist.
Pathetic. Mankind learns how to create language, and some putz like
you takes a word concept and fabricates a god out of it.
I.e. Our Christian
"God is love"
Your broken record mantra is boring.
So there is no actual being involved?
No entity whatsoever?
If "god is love" then why bother with all the bible *****, just
practice love without spouting *****.
But you can't do that can you?
(1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested
In your deluded mind
in Jesus Christ giving
His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
So jesus is not god then? Or you would not be saying "god is love"
Was that before or after he was born in a village that didn't exist,
and without sperm taking part in the procedure?
We therefore know our God
You "know" sweet-*****-all.
and have seen Him.
Is LSD part of your rituals?
(Jesus in John 14:6-10) and we are inspired to emulate
our God.
How many villages have you exterminated? Make sure you get every last
woman and child, emulate him right.
How many fig trees can you smite without touching them or using a
weapon or fire, just with your "holy power"?
Do you have some video of casting demons into pigs and destroying
them? Youtube has filespace ready, be sure to post the link.
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him.
Claiming you know what love is means you know god is a sorry *****
claim. Or your god is love, so that rules out atheists being able to
see it, what a fucking stupid platform.
Your certainty about your god is a clue that you are clueless.
See below,
You are so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused
yourself in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field
of horny clues at the height of clue mating season, you still would
not have a clue. (THE INSULT FILE VERSION 6.12: verse 12:1)
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
10 Jun 2007 07:43:57 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:07:47 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
Like I said, your definition of the word "god" is sure not to exist.
Another mantra, Frank?
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
11 Jun 2007 09:59:54 AM |
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Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:07:47 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
Like I said, your definition of the word "god" is sure not to exist.
Another mantra, Frank?
Frank believes that by repeating the same sentence over and over, that
makes it true. It is a sign of a deeper psychological problem, as if
that should surprise anyone...
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| User: "SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" |
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| Title: Re: What made me free and obnoxious: All religions and all gods are manmade |
08 Jun 2007 09:54:07 AM |
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<m9mckinley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181275496.196987.38360@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
10 Conclusions helped me overcome the religious
indoctrination and brainwashing from early childhood:
good for you.
1. All religions and all gods are manmade. Made and made up
by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result
of (new) ideas and concepts that evolved and were then
accepted as the (new) truth, the (new) philosophy of life,
the (new) gospel, the (new) true religion.
congrats for realizing that religion is a crock of crap
2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable.
Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution
was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal)
suddenly inserted in a certain species at a discrete point in time.
again, congrats for realizing that christianity is a total crock
If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living
being, e.g. 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his
or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.
This means:
All living beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. As I
don't believe a worm has a soul, I must conclude that the concept
of a soul in each human being can only be a manmade construct.
A manmade construct because we have a need to believe that
we (or at least our 'spirit' or our 'soul') will exist forever.
We fear death, we fear being gone forever.
We want to deny death, we need to believe we are immortal.
We do not want to accept that we may be a fluke of nature.
We have a need to fabricate a reason for our existence.
3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are manmade, and
the concepts of heaven and hell are manmade. They were created
when social groups evolved culturally: To keep individual behavior in
line and within boundaries - to be beneficial to the group or to
its leaders. Heaven was a carrot, hell was the stick.
right once again
4. The Christian dogma of sin, with human beings having free choice
to obey or disobey, is untenable, as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
already existed millions of years before human beings
(mammals with increased brain size) came about.
yup, christian nuts can't see this unfortunately, much like christians claim
a child has FREE WILL to be raped and murdered
That means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete
point where the 'first' human being suddenly had free choice to obey
or disobey. That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the cross
to atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
(suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=sin).
The manmade Christian God sacrificed his son to atone for all
sins forever for all times. That brilliant idea arose from much older
pagan religions that had human sacrifices at their core. The ultimate
sacrifice for redemption was to offer your own son, as in the
Abraham-Isaac story. That's why Christ - the Son - was
offered by the Father and had to die for all mankind.
but god had to offer his son to forgive sin which he created in the first
***** place
LMAO
As homo sapiens evolved over millions of years, there was
never an Adam and Eve 6000 years ago. That means Eve disobeying
God and eating from the fruit never happened. That means the 'fall'
in the garden of Eden never happened. That also means a 'fall' e.g.
a million years earlier never happened. That means the philosophy
of Christ having to die for our original sin, for us disobeying God,
has no basis in fact. Our ancestors millions of years ago did
not have the brains or the choice to obey or disobey.
YEA, ANOTHER BRILLIANT OBVSERVATION, PROVING CHRISTIANITY IS A CROCK OF CRAP
5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved by accepting
Christ as your savior is untenable. As over 4.5 billion on earth are
not Christians and don't even know about Jesus Christ,
it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns
4.5 billion out of 6.5 billion to hell = eternal suffering.
In addition, there are 200 billion stars in our own galaxy,
with probably at least 1 billion inhabited planets.
It is also illogical to assume that God sacrificed his son on
1 billion planets. And that is only in our own galaxy.
true, but don't confuse christian nuts with the FACTS
6. All religions are manmade, which explains the huge variety of
religions. Any evolving human society develops beliefs about life and
death, which then often morph into absolute beliefs and then
into structured beliefs = religion. That's why there are so
many religions, so many spin-offs of existing religions, and why so
many new spin-offs and denominations are created all the time,
all over the world. There are always new thinkers, with new ideas.
shouldn't there just be ONE religion and ONE god ...?????
more proof that religion is a TOTAL AND COMPLETE CROCK OF CRAP
7. All religions and their spin-offs are manmade, and the concept of
'God' including the 'God' of Christianity, Islam and Judaism is man
made
agreed.
..
As nowhere in the material world we see physical acts/actions by
a 'God' on matter, there is no reason to assume that an 'immaterial'
God like the Christian God (who controls, guards, acts on matter
= interferes in our world) exists.
8. So we have to face the fact, with courage, and conclude that:
GOD IS ABSENT, IS DEAD OR DOES NOT EXIST.
you forgot the other possibility...that the christian god is a COLD-HEARTED
*****
and loves to watch his beings suffer.
As I find it illogical that if an all powerful God existed, he would
decide to disappear from our material world = universe into some
other universe, or even die, i.e. disappear from all possible
universes, there is only one conclusion left:
There is no God applying material forces on or into our physical
environment. That means all physical and chemical occurrences
can be explained (sooner or later) without having to introduce a
supernatural and 'immaterial' being capable of and actively
acting on matter. Therefore the conclusion is that the Christian
God really does not exist.
You can only exist if you are matter or tied to matter.
You only exist if you can act upon matter. When tied to matter, it
can be observed, measured, etc., and thus be proven to exist.
Example:
In the tsunami near Sumatra up to 100,000 innocent children
were killed in just one hour.
'God' did not do it.
'Satan' did not do it.
Humans did not do it.
The earth core is cooling, forcing huge plates to move,
which occasionally rupture or fracture into earthquakes,
volcanic eruptions, etc., which then can cause terrible
natural catastrophes such as this tsunami.
Nowhere did or does the 'hand of God' act anywhere.
9. The mystery of matter and the most crucial question and
mystery of all
--- 'WHY WE (made of matter) EXIST' ----
does not mean we have to assume an all powerful being like the
Christian God who creates, controls, acts on matter,
and rules and monitors everything.
In the last 1000 years more and more mysteries have been explained.
In the coming thousands of years many more mysteries will be
resolved. That means religious beliefs get pushed back more and
more, away from the current simple absolute religious 'truths'
and beliefs as described in 'holy' books. Religions consist of a
mixture of man made philosophies, myths, theories,
taboos, legends, laws, remnants of pagan religions, etc.,
explanations from hundreds of years or even much longer ago,
and are being pushed back or voided by science and much
more rational explanations.
That also means a religion such as Christianity can only survive if
it develops a much better explanation and rationale for the mystery
of matter and life, and for our existence. However Christianity cannot
're-engineer' itself. It cannot offer a science-based explanation of
life, or even reform itself into a much more rational philosophy of
life.
nope, crocks of ***** (i.e., religion) can not do that.
So it will remain an anti-scientific belief system based on fixed
explanations for life and death, made by men and women
who lived hundreds and even thousands of years ago.
The contradiction between what we learn from science
and the fixed explanations from hundreds and thousands of years
ago will grow. Christianity and other similar religions likely will
slowly disappear. The deep psychological human need for spirituality
will not disappear, but the dogmas and beliefs of religions such
as Christianity, Islam and Judaism will become less and less
acceptable to more and more people.
10. The core issue is a direct conflict between:
o the religious/emotional/non-scientific approach or persona and
o the scientific/rational approach or persona
Spirituality will stay in various forms, but dogmatic religions based
on ancient beliefs will slowly disappear or remain with smaller
and smaller groups of the uneducated or un-enlightened
or the desperate or the frightened or the indoctrinated.
There may be long religious revivals and reactions but
on longer terms science and associated
education will (albeit slowly) void ancient belief systems.
However, religions can very well hang on for a long long time,
despite becoming unsatisfactory to more people, e.g. if
and when there are no other enticing spiritual/social frameworks
as substitutes or replacements. For scientists that could well be
science and the wonders, beauty, size and the mysteries of the
physical universe. But the masses are not well educated and will
never get enthralled by science or scientific exploration and thought.
This basic conflict is also why so many religions, including
Christianity, Judaism and Islam, in their core are so anti-science.
They can never embrace a much more rational belief system that so
clearly exposes the fallacies in their inherited belief system.
Michael M. Terra
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