| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Uncle Clover" |
| Date: |
04 Dec 2006 09:31:51 PM |
| Object: |
What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various rates?
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the crust
would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in more realistic
slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_ rate of decelleration),
what would happen?
One thing I'd heard as a child is that gravity would stop working & everything
would go flying off into space. I'm not sure - I think things may go flying,
but I don't think the gravity would be affected if I understand gravity well
enough to conceptualize it in that scenario. Gravity isn't caused by the spin,
but by the mass. Such theories seem to be suggesting gravity as a sort of
"vacuum-pull" produced by the moving of atoms in the earth away from another
object, and as with the color transparency, was the kind of theory I'd even
heard suggested by high school physics teachers. Given those two gaffes, were
the physics teachers in my high school incompetent or ignorant? If so, might
explain where I got some of -my- bizarre notions.
Just curious...
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
************************************************************
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first
create the universe."
- Carl Sagan, "Cosmos"
************************************************************
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity...
************************************************************
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
04 Dec 2006 10:09:27 PM |
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"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:ejp9n21gfspeodlfvigtl9lbuan7qech35@4ax.com...
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various
rates?
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust
would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in more
realistic
slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_ rate of
decelleration),
what would happen?
The Earth's spin is (and has always been) slowing very very gradually.
It will take many millenia (eons) to stop altogether.
The most obvious effect of this slowing is that the length of a day (24
hours) increases very gradually, over time.
When the speed of rotation gets to half it's present level there'll be 48
hour days and only about 183 days in a year.
I don't think either of us needs to worry, though.
We'll be long gone before that happens :-)
Smiler
The godless one
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
05 Dec 2006 12:29:01 AM |
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"Smiler" <Smiler@Joe.King.com> wrote in message
news:Xh6dh.6986$Pf.5050@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
When the speed of rotation gets to half it's present level there'll be 48
hour days and only about 183 days in a year.
Holy *****? Are you like rainman or something?
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
04 Dec 2006 11:17:24 PM |
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"Uncle Clover" <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in message
news:ejp9n21gfspeodlfvigtl9lbuan7qech35@4ax.com...
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various
rates?
If we gained a much more massive moon, the earth would tidally lock one face
towards it faster that it's locking to the moon.
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust
would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order.
It would be rather catastrophic, yes.
But in more realistic
slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_ rate of
decelleration),
what would happen?
Locking to a moon would take millions if not billions of years, and all the
effects of tides should be considered part of the effect of the earth
slowing to lock onto that moon. All the coastal erosion, etc.
One thing I'd heard as a child is that gravity would stop working &
everything
would go flying off into space.
No, a non-rotating earth would still have the same mass. But if the stop was
sudden, every particle of earth would respond to it's current inertia and
try to continue in a straight line. At the equator, things are moving at
just over 1000 mph. That might be interesting but it won't throw things off
into space because escape velocity is 25000 mph. So everything on the
surface, regardless of its size or mass, will travel at a tangent to the
surface of the earth at about half the speed of a bullet from a Winchester
Rifle.
Yow!
I'm not sure - I think things may go flying,
but I don't think the gravity would be affected if I understand gravity
well
enough to conceptualize it in that scenario. Gravity isn't caused by the
spin,
but by the mass. Such theories seem to be suggesting gravity as a sort of
"vacuum-pull" produced by the moving of atoms in the earth away from
another
object, and as with the color transparency, was the kind of theory I'd
even
heard suggested by high school physics teachers. Given those two gaffes,
were
the physics teachers in my high school incompetent or ignorant? If so,
might
explain where I got some of -my- bizarre notions.
Yikes, you should get an educational refund! ;-)
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
05 Dec 2006 10:10:23 AM |
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On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:31:51 -0500 Uncle Clover
<UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> said the following in alt.atheism and I
was immediately reminded of 1,000 Chinchillas singing Handel's
"Messiah" for some reason...
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various rates?
The Earth is slowing, due to tidalk braking from the Moon and the Sun.
In a few billion years, we'll be tidally locked to the sun, one side
eternally facing the sun and the other frozen.
The only way to suddenly slow the Earth's orbit is to steal angular
momentum from it. A *close* pass by a very large object (Mars sized
or better) could seriously change our rotation speed. Of course, we'd
probably be more concerned about the thousand-foot tides that pass
would cause, along with the massive geological events.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
04 Dec 2006 09:35:25 PM |
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On Dec 4, 8:31 pm, Uncle Clover <UncleClo...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation
Superman flying around the earth opposite to it's rotation.
, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various rates?
Time would be slowed down and reversed.
Didn't you see superman? It's more recent than the bible and more
entertaining.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
05 Dec 2006 07:17:44 AM |
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On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:31:51 -0500, Uncle Clover wrote:
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various
rates?
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in
more realistic slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_ rate
of decelleration), what would happen?
One thing I'd heard as a child is that gravity would stop working &
everything would go flying off into space. I'm not sure - I think things
may go flying, but I don't think the gravity would be affected if I
understand gravity well enough to conceptualize it in that scenario.
Gravity isn't caused by the spin, but by the mass. Such theories seem to
be suggesting gravity as a sort of "vacuum-pull" produced by the moving of
atoms in the earth away from another object, and as with the color
transparency, was the kind of theory I'd even heard suggested by high
school physics teachers. Given those two gaffes, were the physics
teachers in my high school incompetent or ignorant? If so, might explain
where I got some of -my- bizarre notions.
Just curious...
--
After reading the very well informed responses, I notice that one is
missing: during the "El Nino" phenomenon several years ago, the speed of
Earth's rotation slowed by a few milliseconds per day. This was due to
the fact that the sustained wind direction shift caused by El Nino had to
be countered by a slight slowing in the rotational velocity of the Earth
itself, because the Earth and atmosphere together must conserve angular
momentum.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
05 Dec 2006 07:13:12 PM |
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MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote in
news:pan.2006.12.05.13.17.45.774479@stopspam.net:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:31:51 -0500, Uncle Clover wrote:
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the
Earth's rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at
various rates?
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in
more realistic slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_
rate of decelleration), what would happen?
One thing I'd heard as a child is that gravity would stop working &
everything would go flying off into space. I'm not sure - I think
things may go flying, but I don't think the gravity would be affected
if I understand gravity well enough to conceptualize it in that
scenario. Gravity isn't caused by the spin, but by the mass. Such
theories seem to be suggesting gravity as a sort of "vacuum-pull"
produced by the moving of atoms in the earth away from another object,
and as with the color transparency, was the kind of theory I'd even
heard suggested by high school physics teachers. Given those two
gaffes, were the physics teachers in my high school incompetent or
ignorant? If so, might explain where I got some of -my- bizarre
notions.
Just curious...
--
After reading the very well informed responses, I notice that one is
missing: during the "El Nino" phenomenon several years ago, the speed
of Earth's rotation slowed by a few milliseconds per day. This was due
to the fact that the sustained wind direction shift caused by El Nino
had to be countered by a slight slowing in the rotational velocity of
the Earth itself, because the Earth and atmosphere together must
conserve angular momentum.
Yes most interesting:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0210rotation.html
Note that the change is not permanent though like the tidal locking
effect.
Klazmon.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
04 Dec 2006 11:24:29 PM |
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Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in
news:ejp9n21gfspeodlfvigtl9lbuan7qech35@4ax.com:
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the
Earth's rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at
various rates?
Tidal friction. The Earth's rotation *is* slowing.
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in
more realistic slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_
rate of decelleration), what would happen?
The kinetic energy in the spin would be converted to heat.
- Carl Sagan, "Cosmos"
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Now Playing:
"Dogmatism is puppyism come to its full growth."
-Douglas Jerrold 1803-1857
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
04 Dec 2006 11:29:51 PM |
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Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in
news:ejp9n21gfspeodlfvigtl9lbuan7qech35@4ax.com:
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various
rates?
Tidal effects are the cause. Both the Moon and the Sun are slowing the
rotation of the Earth. Eventually the Earth will become tidally locked to
the Moon just as the Moon is now tidally locked to the Earth. The former
will however take billions of years.
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in
more realistic slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_
rate of decelleration), what would happen?
The only real physical thing that could do it fast is the close passage of
a Neutron star or black hole but for the tidal forces to be large enough to
rapidly stop the Earth's rotation, the Earth would have to be within the
Neutron star's Roche limit. That would basically mean that the Earth would
be ripped apart. In the less dramatic case of the eventual tidal locking to
the Moon you would end up with the Earth rotating in sync with the Moon's
orbit, however the moon would be be orbiting a bit further out than it does
now, as the Earth's angular momentum would have been transferred to the
Moon's orbit. It means that the day would be much longer than it is now.
One thing I'd heard as a child is that gravity would stop working &
everything would go flying off into space. I'm not sure - I think
things may go flying, but I don't think the gravity would be affected if
I understand gravity well enough to conceptualize it in that scenario.
Gravity isn't caused by the spin, but by the mass.
Correct. But spin does affect gravity in a way opposite to what you are
considering . The Earth's rotation means that it is actually easier to get
satellites into orbit from a launch site near to the Earth's equator, than
from the poles. The Earth's rotation gives the launch vehicle a boost. If
the Earth were not rotating, the space shuttle would actually have a harder
time getting into orbit from the Cape. There is a more subtle effect of
spin with respect to gravity (see link below). In fact even pressure
affects gravity, as pressure is one of the components of the stress-energy
tensor. This is important enough to be a factor with neutron stars. As far
as the subtle spin issue goes, read about Gravity Probe B:
http://einstein.stanford.edu/
Such theories seem
to be suggesting gravity as a sort of "vacuum-pull" produced by the
moving of atoms in the earth away from another object, and as with the
color transparency, was the kind of theory I'd even heard suggested by
high school physics teachers. Given those two gaffes, were the physics
teachers in my high school incompetent or ignorant? If so, might
explain where I got some of -my- bizarre notions.
I think either you, they, or both are confused ;-). If they really said
that there would be no gravity if the Earth wasn't spinning then that is
completely wrong. Isaac Newton worked out all that stuff around three
hundred years ago. Maybe you are misremembering what they said.
Klazmon.
Just curious...
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
************************************************************
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first
create the universe."
- Carl Sagan, "Cosmos"
************************************************************
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity...
************************************************************
.
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: What sort of events would slow the rotation of the Earth? |
05 Dec 2006 06:15:53 PM |
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On 5 Dec 2006 18:29:51 +1300, Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th
<Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote:
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> wrote in
news:ejp9n21gfspeodlfvigtl9lbuan7qech35@4ax.com:
What sort of most-probable events would cause the slowing of the Earth's
rotation, and what kind of effect would such slowing have at various
rates?
Tidal effects are the cause. Both the Moon and the Sun are slowing the
rotation of the Earth. Eventually the Earth will become tidally locked to
the Moon just as the Moon is now tidally locked to the Earth. The former
will however take billions of years.
Naturally if the Earth were to -instantly- stop spinning, I think the
crust would shatter and turn into magma in pretty short order. But in
more realistic slowing scenarios (pick a rate of decelleration, _any_
rate of decelleration), what would happen?
The only real physical thing that could do it fast is the close passage of
a Neutron star or black hole but for the tidal forces to be large enough to
rapidly stop the Earth's rotation, the Earth would have to be within the
Neutron star's Roche limit. That would basically mean that the Earth would
be ripped apart. In the less dramatic case of the eventual tidal locking to
the Moon you would end up with the Earth rotating in sync with the Moon's
orbit, however the moon would be be orbiting a bit further out than it does
now, as the Earth's angular momentum would have been transferred to the
Moon's orbit. It means that the day would be much longer than it is now.
One thing I'd heard as a child is that gravity would stop working &
everything would go flying off into space. I'm not sure - I think
things may go flying, but I don't think the gravity would be affected if
I understand gravity well enough to conceptualize it in that scenario.
Gravity isn't caused by the spin, but by the mass.
Correct. But spin does affect gravity in a way opposite to what you are
considering . The Earth's rotation means that it is actually easier to get
satellites into orbit from a launch site near to the Earth's equator, than
from the poles. The Earth's rotation gives the launch vehicle a boost. If
the Earth were not rotating, the space shuttle would actually have a harder
time getting into orbit from the Cape. There is a more subtle effect of
spin with respect to gravity (see link below). In fact even pressure
affects gravity, as pressure is one of the components of the stress-energy
tensor. This is important enough to be a factor with neutron stars. As far
as the subtle spin issue goes, read about Gravity Probe B:
http://einstein.stanford.edu/
Such theories seem
to be suggesting gravity as a sort of "vacuum-pull" produced by the
moving of atoms in the earth away from another object, and as with the
color transparency, was the kind of theory I'd even heard suggested by
high school physics teachers. Given those two gaffes, were the physics
teachers in my high school incompetent or ignorant? If so, might
explain where I got some of -my- bizarre notions.
I think either you, they, or both are confused ;-). If they really said
that there would be no gravity if the Earth wasn't spinning then that is
completely wrong. Isaac Newton worked out all that stuff around three
hundred years ago. Maybe you are misremembering what they said.
We're talking about the same teacher who thought overlapping transparencies of
red, green and blue would create white light on an overhead projection, and in a
town where the last publically avowed flat-earther just died less than a decade
ago, where child molestation is the rule rather than the exception and folks
consider performing an exorcism on you if you fail to show up for wednesday
night prayer meeting.
I'm not misremembering what was said, though I guess I did overstate how many
said it - it was just one teacher that said this particular thing.
You'd really have to have grown up there to get a proper feel of the place -
it's just -not- normal. :-#
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
************************************************************
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first
create the universe."
- Carl Sagan, "Cosmos"
************************************************************
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity...
************************************************************
.
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