Religions > Atheism > What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
25 Feb 2006 06:56:12 AM |
| Object: |
What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine35&item=1109664037
Abortion: A Modern Holocaust?
By Douglas S. Winnail
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in their
mothers' wombs. What does today's widespread acceptance of abortion
tell us about ourselves, and about our modern society? What will be the
future of a world where abortion becomes routine? You need to know!
In the last 40 years, the subject of abortion has erupted on the
world stage and provoked international controversy-polarizing people,
dividing countries and setting churches against states. Zealous
supporters of abortion, calling themselves "pro-choice," debate and
demonstrate with passion and zeal, countered by equally zealous
opponents of abortion, calling themselves "pro-life." Confrontations
between these two perspectives are often emotional and bitter,
sometimes becoming violent-or even fatal! Battle lines have been
drawn. One observer noted that "few issues have more thoroughly
fragmented contemporary society" (The Ethics of Abortion, Baird &
Rosenbaum, p. 7).
To understand this emotion-charged issue, it is helpful to know
why abortion has emerged as such a controversial topic in our time, and
to recognize what is ultimately at stake. Even more important is the
question: where is the acceptance of abortion leading our society?
Why has abortion become a controversial issue in many countries of
the world today? For centuries, abortion was scorned or forbidden in
many countries around the globe. Yet in the last half of the 20th
century, abortion was not merely accepted-it was embraced! With the
declining influence of Judeo-Christian values, and the resulting
rejection of biblical morality, many turned to permissive sexual
behavior, and "reproductive rights" became a rallying cry as women
abandoned traditional gender roles and sexually promiscuous men sought
pleasure without any regard for the consequences. Simultaneously, amid
fears of global overpopulation, governments began to subsidize-and
sometimes even to require, as in China-abortion as a means of "birth
control."
More than in most countries, the United States is divided on the
issue of abortion, as many still respect biblical standards of
morality. In Europe, abortion is a far less volatile issue, as only
about 10 percent of the population attends church services regularly,
compared to nearly half in the U.S.
A Global Concern
In the U.S., pro-life activists are motivated by the magnitude of
the abortion problem, yet the problem is even greater worldwide. Since
the U.S. Supreme Court legalized abortion with the Roe v. Wade decision
in 1973, approximately 1.5 million abortions have been done every
year-for a total of more than 40 million young lives snuffed out!
More than six million babies have been killed in Britain since abortion
was legalized there in 1967. In the former Soviet Union and East Bloc
countries, the majority of pregnancies are terminated by abortion. In
China, where abortion was legalized in 1957, more than 100 million
abortions have occurred in the last four decades. In 1979, China
adopted a "one child" policy, severely restricting most parents'
opportunity to have a second child. With the development of ultrasound
technology (through which parents can learn the gender of a child in
the womb) has come the phenomenon of "sex-selective" abortions, in
which families restricted to one child will kill their unborn daughters
so that they can have a boy. Not surprisingly, observers note that the
current generation of young urban Chinese includes noticeably more men
than women!
In many countries-especially across Africa and Latin
America-abortions are routinely done under conditions so unsafe that
the mother is at grave risk of complications and suffering, or even
death.
Around the world, it is estimated that between 40 and 50 million
abortions occur annually (see The Abortion Debate, Kulczycki, p. 5).
This means that about one in every four pregnancies are ended by
induced abortion-poisoned, dismembered or suctioned out and
discarded!
In Germany, during World War II, Adolf Hitler's Nazi movement
killed an estimated six million Jews in what has become known as the
Holocaust. After the war, those responsible for this barbaric act of
cruelty were tried and convicted of crimes against humanity, and a
morally outraged world saw them hanged for their crimes. Today,
however, tens of millions of unborn babies die every year-many in the
very same nations that sat in judgment at Nuremburg.
It is no wonder that many today call widespread abortion a modern
holocaust. The mass murder of unborn babies, legal and socially
acceptable in our modern nations, has exceeded by far the numbers
killed in Germany under the Nazis, in Russia under Stalin, in China
under Mao Zedong and in Cambodia under Pol Pot-yet few today are
shocked or outraged! In fact, those who speak out against abortion are
commonly labeled as backward and right-wing religious fanatics.
Clouded by Arguments
But how did we reach a point where modern, educated people-with
a heritage of Christian values that regard abortion as illegal and
immoral-now accept and even demand that abortion be recognized as a
legal right? The answer lies in the arguments used by pro-abortionists,
which cloud the real issues at the heart of the controversy. When
examined closely, these arguments-though labeled "intellectual" and
"progressive"-are revealed as shallow and one-sided, willfully
ignoring basic facts of biology.
Pro-abortionists commonly argue that in the early stages of
pregnancy a developing embryo is not really a human life, as it is only
a "blob of tissue" that looks more like a tadpole than a human being.
In fact, however, this differentiating collection of cells is
developing in a way that will never result in a tadpole, or a tree or a
monkey! By 10 to 12 weeks, this little individual will have a
recognizable human face, arms, hands and fingers, legs, feet and toes.
It appears to smile and suck its thumb, and it even responds to sounds!
It is a miniature human being. Just because it does not appear human in
the early weeks of development does not make it a "sub-human" creature!
Pro-abortionists like to cloud the issue of when life begins. They
have argued that life does not begin until movement is felt, or the
first breath is drawn, or until the fetus is viable on its own, to
justify that abortion before these milestones is not really taking a
human life. However, the biological fact is that life begins at the
moment of conception. From that point, every cell in the developing
embryo contains the exact number of chromosomes and all the genetic
material that distinguishes this new human being from its parents. Some
say that the fetus is just an organ-a part of the mother's body
like the appendix or a hangnail-and that it is up to the mother to
decide if she wants it removed. However, from conception a fetus has a
different genetic makeup from any organ in the mother's body.
Terminating this life by abortion takes the life of a genetically
unique individual. Biologically, it is impossible to draw a line and
say life begins at any other point than at conception. The fetus moves
in the womb weeks before the mother feels any movement. While a fetus
cannot survive on its own outside the mother's body, neither can a
baby survive on its own after it is born! It must also be fed, nurtured
and cared for by others for years before it can survive on its own.
Pro-abortionists have suggested that legal abortions, by reducing
the number of "unwanted" pregnancies, reduce the incidence of child
abuse since every child born will be wanted and loved. However, since
abortion became legal, the incidence of child abuse has increased!
The argument that abortion must be legal in order to provide for
cases of rape, incest or detectable birth defects ignores the fact that
these reasons account for only a small fraction of abortions occurring
today (see chart). Many abortions occur among sexually active
adolescents for purely personal (and often selfish) reasons (Kulczycki,
p. 1). Abortions on demand-"killing for convenience"-are frequently
requested to avoid the responsibilities or embarrassment of unwanted
conceptions (Slouching Towards Gomorrah, Bork, p. l80).
Noted jurist Robert Bork points out that the U.S. Supreme
Court's Roe v. Wade decision, legalizing abortion, was viewed by
feminists as a "landmark on women's march to equality... the issue
had nothing to do with the humanity of the fetus but was entirely about
women's freedom" (Bork, p. 183). The pro-abortion argument likes to
focus on a woman's rights-unless the woman is in her mother's
womb!
Historical Perspectives
Supporters of abortion rarely consider the lessons of history. In
ancient pagan Greece and Rome, unwanted infants were exposed to the
elements and left to die. Abortion was an accepted practice, and a
variety of methods were available. Plato and Aristotle advocated
abortion to limit family size. Although Roman law was pro-family, it
was not anti-abortion. The decline of Rome saw an increase of crime,
promiscuity-and abortion. Christianity, by contrast, forbade murder
and taught that life was sacred, challenging pagan values and bringing
about what some have called the "first abortion war" (see Christianity
Today, October 6, 1989). This clash between Christian and pagan values
(visible not only in Scripture, but in the early Church Fathers) shaped
the anti-abortion attitudes of Western civilization for centuries.
Another "abortion war" erupted in the 1850s, when across the U.S.
abortion began to gain new popularity, spurred by new values shaped by
the Industrial Revolution. Medical doctors, however, backed restrictive
laws to curtail abortions by unqualified practitioners, which also had
the effect of limiting competition.
In the 1930s, Nazi Germany passed laws making it legal to kill the
old and infirm. This principle was later extended to allow the murder
of Jews, gypsies and other "unwanted" members of society. Nazi Germany
actually restricted abortion, however, of those whose genetics were
considered socially desirable.
It was not until the middle of the 20th century that the "abortion
wars" reached their zenith. In the 1960s and 1970s, the U.S. and U.K.
followed the examples set by China and the Soviet Union, legalizing
abortion. Centuries-old value systems were now being replaced by
ancient pagan values of life in many nominally "Christian" nations
around the world.
Fifty years ago, decent people were outraged to learn that Nazi
doctors had experimented on living human beings for "scientific"
purposes, and had harvested body parts for commercial use. Today, few
are concerned that human tissue from aborted fetuses is even used in
making face creams! How society has changed! Since abortion and
euthanasia were legalized in Holland, estimates suggest that 8 percent
of infants who die each year in the Netherlands are killed by doctors!
One observer commented that "it took the Dutch almost 30 years for
their medical practices to fall to the point that Dutch doctors are
able to engage in the kind of euthanasia activities that got some
German doctors hanged after Nuremberg."
The Biblical Dimension
The historical dimension of the abortion controversy is sobering.
But what about the moral question? Is abortion right or wrong? What
does the Bible say?
The Apostle Paul wrote: "But if anyone does not provide for his
own [family]... he has denied the faith" (1 Timothy 5:8). Would anyone
argue that a Christian can provide for a family member by killing him?
Remember: one of the Ten Commandments specifically condemns murder
(Exodus 20:13). In other words, any birth control method that induces
abortion is wrong.
Moses warned the Israelites not to practice the wicked customs of
their Canaanite neighbors-which included infanticide-the killing of
children. He instructed: "You shall not learn to follow the
abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you
anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through the fire... for they
burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods"
(Deuteronomy 18:9-14; 12:31).
King David described that the Israelites angered God because they
"sacrificed their sons and daughters to demons [false gods], and shed
innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and daughters" (Psalms
106:32-39). The prophet Ezekiel thundered God's warning that,
having forgotten God, they had "slain My children... blood is on their
hands. They have... sacrificed their sons whom they have born to Me,
passing them through the fire, to devour them" (Ezekiel 16:21; 23:37).
In direct defiance of God's instructions, ancient Israel had
adopted barbaric pagan practices of child killing! In response, the
prophet Jeremiah warned: "Also on your skirts is found the blood of the
lives of the poor innocents... Behold, I will bring such a catastrophe
on this place, that whoever hears of it, his ears will tingle, because
they have forsaken Me... therefore behold, the days are coming, says
the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet or the Valley
of the Son of Hinnom [where children were sacrificed], but the Valley
of Slaughter [when God uses foreign nations to punish His people for
killing their own children]" (see Jeremiah 2:34; 19:3-7). These
passages reveal how God views the slaughter of children, whether they
are infants or unborn babies!
Modern "ethicists" like Peter Singer of Princeton University have
offered arguments that an unborn fetus is less than human. This idea is
not new; it was common to many ancient pagan philosophers as well.
However, this approach is clearly refuted in the Bible. God told
Jeremiah: "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were
born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations"
(Jeremiah 1:5). An angel told Zacharias, father of John the Baptist,
that John would "also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his
mother's womb" (Luke 1:15). The Bible reveals that God regards unborn
babies as human beings, and that killing human infants, born or unborn,
will incur the wrath of Almighty God! Our modern secular society has
forgotten these powerful warnings!
A Sobering Future
But where is the drive to legalize abortion leading modern
nations? What is the acceptance of abortion doing to our societies?
Judge Robert Bork calls the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade
decision, which legalized abortion, an attempt by liberal secular
elites to impose their values on the rest of the nation (see Bork, p.
174). He observes: "Abortion has coarsened us" and it reflects "the
brutalization of our culture" (ibid., p. 182). He states: "The
systematic killing of unborn children in huge numbers is part of a
general disregard for human life that has been growing for some time.
Abortion... deepens and legitimates the nihilism [disregard for
traditional values] that is spreading in our culture and finds killing
for convenience acceptable" (ibid, p. 192).
British social critic Peter Hitchens makes a similar observation,
that abortion "corrupts any society which freely permits it. The idea
that innocent life may be lawfully ended for the convenience of others
or for the alleged good of society, once generally accepted, devastates
the rule of law itself" (The Spectator, August 7, 2004). British
columnist Bruce Anderson comments: "Over the last 40 years, the
abortion clinic has become an indispensable part of the life-support
system of the permissive society. The unrestricted enjoyment of sexual
license requires not only contraception but retroactive contraception
[abortion]" (The Spectator, July 17, 2004).
Even those who try to frame the debate in terms of "reproductive
rights" cannot honestly deny the negative social trends that have
accompanied the acceptance of abortion. They can only say that in their
value system, these negative trends are a price worth paying.
Ultimately, two questions are involved-whose values will prevail, and
who will control society? Dr. Andrzej Kulczycki, a United Nations
consultant, has observed that "the debate about abortion reflects a
conflict over who runs society"-social liberals or religious and
social conservatives-"their disagreements reflect very different
understandings of the fetus, of the woman, and indeed of how the world
should be structured" (The Abortion Debate, Kulczycki, pp. 157, 18).
These conflicting views are at the heart of the bitter cultural wars
that are polarizing people and dividing nations today.
It is significant that abortion is now widely accepted in many
cultures that historically called themselves "Christian." Bible
prophecy warns that "in the last days" people will be "lovers of
themselves [focused on their own rights and desires to the exclusion of
concern for others]... unloving [callous and without natural
affection-mothers for their own children]... brutal" (2 Timothy
3:1-5). These prophecies accurately describe our world today, yet
these trends will grow far worse in years to come. Thankfully, the
return of Jesus Christ will soon usher in the Kingdom of God, and bring
about a return to biblical values that will include "turning the hearts
of the fathers [and mothers] to their children." Then, finally, the
tragic modern holocaust of abortion will become a thing of the past!
Children of Carthage
Today's nations should learn a grim lesson from the way children
were treated in ancient Carthage, and from the fate that befell the
city. In 300BC, Carthage was the center of a rich trading empire, and
was a rival of Rome. Its citizens were wealthy, cultured and educated,
yet remarkably callous about taking human life. Unwanted orphans and
widows were killed "to reduce the amount of poverty and suffering in
the city" ( When Nations Die, Black, p. 164). Carthaginians burned
thousands of their own children to appease their patron goddess, Tanet.
Ancient writers report that frequent public sacrifices "took place in
front of a bronze statue of the god, with arms outstretched over a
blazing fire; the child slid down over the arms and fell" into the
flames ( The Phoenicians and the West, Aubet, p. 211). The necropolis
at Carthage contains more than 20,000 urns with charred remains of
infants and children. This gruesome practice finally ended when the
Romans besieged and destroyed Carthage in 146BC.
Historian Jim Nelson Black wondered how the murder of unborn
children in modern societies is any different from the murder of
children in ancient Carthage? He asked: "Isn't the rite of abortion
our culture's sacrifice to the gods of materialism and greed? The
Phoenicians killed many thousands of children... But in the entire
history of Carthage or of Rome, they never killed 30 million in the
name of "a woman's right to control her own body" (Black, p.
166).
The media lavished much attention on the famous Roman Catholic
nun, Mother Teresa, but only infrequently reported her stinging rebukes
of contemporary society. Mother Teresa likened abortion to "a war
against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by
the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her
own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?... Any
country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love, but
to use any violence to get what they want. This is why the greatest
destroyer of peace and love is abortion" ( ibid., pp. 214-215).
Carthage continued its barbaric practice of murdering children
until the day it was destroyed. Will our society today, which permits
far greater evil, do the same?
-Douglas S. Winnail
Killing For Convenience
Reasons Given for Abortion:
Having a baby will change my life 76%
Cannot afford a baby now 68%
Want to avoid single parenthood 51%
Unready for responsibility 31%
Don't want others to know of pregnancy 31%
Not mature enough to have a child 30%
Fetus has a health problem 7%
Woman was victim of rape or incest 1%
(Family Planning Perspectives, July/August 1988, pp. 169-170)
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
25 Feb 2006 10:15:02 AM |
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Abortion has been routine for decades already.
All you have to do is look at all the deficits and divorce rates and other
malevents in US society to know what the world would be like if abortion
were routine worldwide.
It would suck.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
25 Feb 2006 09:46:02 AM |
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In article <1140872172.006021.181310@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
soundoftrumpet@lycos.com says...
Every year, millions of unborn babies
Hummm, that's kinda like calling a scoop of oatmeal an "unbaked cookie".
are being murdered in their mothers' wombs.
It's not murder because (1) murder is a legal term for unlawful killing
and abortion is legal (2) the fetus is not meaningfully sentient. Since
we define human life to cease at brain death, a being that didn't have an
operational brain to begin with, such as fetuses or republicans, cannot
be said to "die" in a human sense (3) the developing fetus lacks many of
the features of post-birth humans and therefore equating it with the
killing of post-birth humans trivializes the concept of murder.
What does today's widespread
acceptance of abortion
tell us about ourselves, and about our modern society?
It says that they've smartened up, at least a bit, and thrown off the
mental slavery known as religious dogma.
What will be the
future of a world where abortion becomes routine? You need to know!
It will be a future where the population is at sustainable levels and
famines do not kill huge numbers routinely. All the famines in the world
could be prevented with existing technology. That technology is family
planning.
Why has abortion become a controversial issue in many countries of
the world today? For centuries, abortion was scorned or forbidden in
many countries around the globe. Yet in the last half of the 20th
century, abortion was not merely accepted-it was embraced!
Yeah, education, advances in technology and the challenges of an ever
increasing population all tend to make people more pragmatic and
reasonable. This is bad news for priestly numbskulls who have lost many
of their traditional mechanisms for controlling people, but it's good
news for free people. If you support "freedom", as Bush claims, then
support the mental freedom that comes with rejecting religion. Freedom
isn't a gift from Gawd, as Bush claimed, but rather a gift we give
ourselves when we reject the slavery of religious servitude. Far from
giving us freedom, gawd and his priests are the motherfuckers driving the
slaveship.
With the
declining influence of Judeo-Christian values, and the resulting
rejection of biblical morality, many turned to permissive sexual
behavior, and "reproductive rights" became a rallying cry as women
abandoned traditional gender roles and sexually promiscuous men sought
pleasure without any regard for the consequences. Simultaneously, amid
fears of global overpopulation, governments began to subsidize-and
sometimes even to require, as in China-abortion as a means of "birth
control."
More than in most countries, the United States is divided on the
issue of abortion, as many still respect biblical standards of
morality.
There's nothing biblical about abortion bans. The dipshits writing the
bible knew essentially nothing about the actual mechanisms of child
birth, much less the subject of modern abortion. These dumb son-of-a-
bitches thought that diseases were caused by demon possession.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
25 Feb 2006 09:35:00 AM |
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Jeez, Ron, yer back in action, mate, shootin' from someone else's
hip as per usual. Still yer managed not to include Satan in this one.
Does yer think yer beginning ter give up yer addiction? Yer needs a
better life, son.
Talkin' of which, have ye organised yer awayday ter Canberra yet, fer
me and the boys have a question fer ye before yer gets here on account
of yer name. I says it's obvious ter a blind man that yer sees
yerself as one of them bloody archangels. I gotta tell yer, Ron, that
yer barkin' up the wrong cloud wiv that one. I ain't never seen
any. Down here we like a safe bet, and them trumpet blokes ain't
even on the running list. Now over at the TAB, yer can bet on all the
horses yer like. Me mate's got a nice little runner, a colt called
Watawanker. We get a lot of 'W' names down here like Wooloomooloo
and Woodyagiveitarestmate. Gives the place a bit of a flavour, I
think.
So take me advice about yer name, Ron. Ter be blunt about it, yer
sounds like a ***** an' I have ter tell yer that after a few
rounds of Coopers, the blokes in the boozer were all callin' ye a
pound of strumpet, and Doris got a bit upset. Get that awayday going
fer yer own good. We got our fair share of natural wonders down here,
especially when Kylie leans across the bar with yer full cup and yer
gets the benefit of hers. Paradise on earth, mate, and none of yer
wowsers ter interrupt the view.
Yer Ozzy Pal
Johno Howard
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 09:39:56 AM |
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On 25 Feb 2006 04:56:12 -0800,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion
Becomes Routine?
Far more SANE, for openers.
Since in that entire diatribe you parroted, there was not so much
as even ONE single FACT that could be employed to justify the
FORCING of full gestation upon *any* woman, *anywhere*.
Forcing a girl or woman to do that would be a very real, 9-month-
long form of RAPE.
Anti-Choice Loons = Wannabe Rapists
...and should always be viewed in precisely that way.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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ANALYZING ABORTION-ON-REQUEST* in the USA
*(Abortion Rights as they have existed since 1-22-73)
Abortion terminates entities (z/e/fs: zygotes, embryoes &
fetuses, up until the 7th month of gestation) which have ALL
of these characteristics in common with sperm and ova:
-- Human
-- Unique
-- As a stage of development, indispensible to future birth
-- Have NEVER experienced conscious awareness*
-- Alive
...which makes it hypocritical when abortion opponents
try to defend z/e/fs but NOT sperm and ova.
* (AFTER the 7th month of gestation begins, conscious
awareness may be possible, but all the other of the above-
listed attributes still apply.)
And the Bible, which is the primary moral authority for the
majority of Americans:
-- In NO way condemns abortion
-- Doesn't even MENTION abortion
-- By Jesus' day, abortion had been around for 1,000 yrs.
-- Contains NO defenses of s/o/z/e/fs
-- Reserves ALL of its protection for already-BORN people
-- That the Bible regards personhood to begin at BIRTH is
made clear by it's immense emphasis on the importance
of BIRTH order, and BIRTHrights.
-- In certain cases, condemned BABIES to horrible deaths
-- Never indicates that there is anything "special" about
fertilization
-- Thus making z/e/f and sperm & ova of EQUAL worth
Abortion-on-request enables women to:
-- Put their lives back on track immediately
-- Restore their well-being to pre-unplanned pregnancy levels
-- Vast majority of women are happy with this decision
-- Most women have no regrets
-- Restore their full range of future opportunities
-- Avoid physical difficulties of a 9-month pregnancy
-- Especially important for young girls, ~12-16
-- Statistically 6-10 times safer than carrying-to-term
-- Avoid the trauma of adopting-out, and wondering later
-- Avoid possibility of changing mind about adopting-out
-- Reduce likelihood of long-term economic deprivation
-- Avoid bringing child into less-loving home
-- Avoid bringing child into unstable environment
-- Wait until timing is better before having children
-- Who then are MORE likely to be loved
-- Who then are MORE likely to be in stable home
-- And thus are LESS like to have troubled childhoods
-- And therefore more likely NOT to become criminals
-- And thus are MORE likely to become successful
Legal abortion-on-request:
-- Is exponentially safer than illegal abortions
-- Thus saving the lives of hundreds or thousands of women/yr.
-- Has been available throughout the USA since early 1973
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 30 million women have had them
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 40 million abortions have been done
Other related facts include:
-- MOST women who have abortions go on to HAVE kids later,
when the timing is better
-- Those children would NOT have been born if the abortions
had not taken place earlier, because the same sperm and
ova would not have matched up.
-- Those "2nd-round" kids STARTED reaching age 13 in
significant numbers by 1988. By the early 1990s, millions
of those "2nd-round" kids were in their mid-teens by the
early 1990s.
-- Mid-teens is the highest risk age for crime, and this
continues into the early 20s.
-- As pointed out above, wanted and loved children are
LESS prone to criminal behavior.
-- By 1995, millions of "2nd-round kids" were entering the
workforce. Perhaps a million-plus MORE have entered it
every year SINCE. By 2000, the oldest ones had reached
the age where they could be getting quite successful.
-- Since the early 1990s, the rate of violent crime in the USA
has declined dramatically, and by 2000 was at 40-year
lows in many categories.
-- The decade of the 1990s, and the 21st century to date,
in the USA, has been the most economically-dynamic
period of time for any nation in the entire history of the
world.
Although the exact figures may be impossible to derive, the
probability that abortion-on-request has SIGNIFICANTLY benefitted
all of America's society in terms of the crime rate and the economy
is QUITE strong, despite the temporary anomaly caused by the attack
on Sept. 11, 2001. And a strong U.S. economy benefits the entire
world.
-- Originally posted to alt.abortion
and talk.abortion on Aug. 13, 2000
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 06:27:33 PM |
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"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
wrote in message news:esi3029f3o0p2vfvd5mccuujs4a2alrrav@4ax.com...
On 25 Feb 2006 04:56:12 -0800,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion
Becomes Routine?
Far more SANE, for openers.
Why more sane?
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 08:23:51 PM |
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On 25 Feb 2006 04:56:12 -0800,
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion
Becomes Routine?
Far more SANE, for openers.
Since in that entire diatribe you parroted, there was not so much
as even ONE single FACT that could be employed to justify the
FORCING of full gestation upon *any* woman, *anywhere*.
Forcing a girl or woman to do that would be a very real, 9-month-
long form of RAPE.
Anti-Choice Loons = Wannabe Rapists
...and should always be viewed in precisely that way.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
ANALYZING ABORTION-ON-REQUEST* in the USA
*(Abortion Rights as they have existed since 1-22-73)
Abortion terminates entities (z/e/fs: zygotes, embryoes &
fetuses, up until the 7th month of gestation) which have ALL
of these characteristics in common with sperm and ova:
-- Human
-- Unique
-- As a stage of development, indispensable to future birth
-- Have NEVER experienced conscious awareness*
-- Alive
...which makes it hypocritical when abortion opponents
try to defend z/e/fs but NOT sperm and ova.
* (AFTER the 7th month of gestation begins, conscious
awareness may be possible, but all the other of the above-
listed attributes still apply.)
And the Bible, which is the primary moral authority for the
majority of Americans:
-- In NO way condemns abortion
-- Doesn't even MENTION abortion
-- By Jesus' day, abortion had been around for 1,000 yrs.
-- Contains NO defenses of s/o/z/e/fs
-- Reserves ALL of its protection for already-BORN people
-- That the Bible regards personhood to begin at BIRTH is
made clear by it's immense emphasis on the importance
of BIRTH order, and BIRTHrights.
-- In certain cases, condemned BABIES to horrible deaths
-- Never indicates that there is anything "special" about
fertilization
-- Thus making z/e/f and sperm & ova of EQUAL worth
Abortion-on-request enables women to:
-- Put their lives back on track immediately
-- Restore their well-being to pre-unplanned pregnancy levels
-- Vast majority of women are happy with this decision
-- Most women have no regrets
-- Restore their full range of future opportunities
-- Avoid physical difficulties of a 9-month pregnancy
-- Especially important for young girls, ~12-16
-- Statistically 6-10 times safer than carrying-to-term
-- Avoid the trauma of adopting-out, and wondering later
-- Avoid possibility of changing mind about adopting-out
-- Reduce likelihood of long-term economic deprivation
-- Avoid bringing child into less-loving home
-- Avoid bringing child into unstable environment
-- Wait until timing is better before having children
-- Who then are MORE likely to be loved
-- Who then are MORE likely to be in stable home
-- And thus are LESS like to have troubled childhoods
-- And therefore more likely NOT to become criminals
-- And thus are MORE likely to become successful
Legal abortion-on-request:
-- Is exponentially safer than illegal abortions
-- Thus saving the lives of hundreds or thousands of women/yr.
-- Has been available throughout the USA since early 1973
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 30 million women have had them
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 40 million abortions have been done
Other related facts include:
-- MOST women who have abortions go on to HAVE kids later,
when the timing is better
-- Those children would NOT have been born if the abortions
had not taken place earlier, because the same sperm and
ova would not have matched up.
-- Those "2nd-round" kids STARTED reaching age 13 in
significant numbers by 1988. By the early 1990s, millions
of those "2nd-round" kids were in their mid-teens by the
early 1990s.
-- Mid-teens is the highest risk age for crime, and this
continues into the early 20s.
-- As pointed out above, wanted and loved children are
LESS prone to criminal behavior.
-- By 1995, millions of "2nd-round kids" were entering the
workforce. Perhaps a million-plus MORE have entered it
every year SINCE. By 2000, the oldest ones had reached
the age where they could be getting quite successful.
-- Since the early 1990s, the rate of violent crime in the USA
has declined dramatically, and by 2000 was at 40-year
lows in many categories.
-- The decade of the 1990s, and the 21st century to date,
in the USA, has been the most economically-dynamic
period of time for any nation in the entire history of the
world.
Although the exact figures may be impossible to derive, the
probability that abortion-on-request has SIGNIFICANTLY benefitted
all of America's society in terms of the crime rate and the economy
is QUITE strong, despite the temporary anomaly caused by the attack
on Sept. 11, 2001. And a strong U.S. economy benefits the entire
world.
-- Originally posted to alt.abortion
and talk.abortion on Aug. 13, 2000
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
25 Feb 2006 01:30:36 PM |
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On 25 Feb 2006 04:56:12 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in their
mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 02:39:27 AM |
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"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:b2c102lcnd7iifkp71e9c7e51m0hhb4n8o@4ax.com...
On 25 Feb 2006 04:56:12 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in their
mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
Every moral condundrum breeds argumentum a definitum. If it seems wrong,
just change the way you talk about it, soon it won't bother you at all.
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 09:57:18 AM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:39:27 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons. In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts that could possibly support
their loathsome stance against women and personal liberties.
Every moral condundrum breeds argumentum a definitum. If it
seems wrong, just change the way you talk about it, soon it won't
bother you at all.
And of course, since there was nothing wrong with abortion
in the first place... it's being nothing more that a hugely valuable
and beneficial REMEDY for a future-opportunities-threatening
UN wanted medical condition, that which you just said is apples-
and-oranges.
RRR cultists... some of the DUMBEST people on earth. (See sig.)
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
---
RRR Cult lemmings.
Dumber than dirt. America's own version of the Taliban.
Selfishly, hatefully, and mindlessly supporting sociopathic
agendas that seek to destroy vital personal liberties of
millions of people. (That's as dumb as it GETS!!!)
And constantly proving that to everyone.
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 06:13:32 PM |
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"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
wrote in message news:3tj302hrgq8laoumucd09sn2vfejbbp9d7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:39:27 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition. How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd?? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It may be technically incorrect in most cases, it may be inflammatory, but
it's not absurd.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time. When
abortion is performed that human life is snuffed out.
that could possibly support
their loathsome stance against women and personal liberties.
That kind of shallow, motive imputing rhetoric is lame and unproductive. It
is the pro-choice equivalent of the pro-life argument that pro-choice
advocates just enjoy seeing babies murdered.
Every moral condundrum breeds argumentum a definitum. If it
seems wrong, just change the way you talk about it, soon it won't
bother you at all.
And of course, since there was nothing wrong with abortion
in the first place... it's being nothing more that a hugely valuable
and beneficial REMEDY for a future-opportunities-threatening
UN wanted medical condition, that which you just said is apples-
and-oranges.
Asserting the point of view that you wish to have prevail is not a
compelling form of argument. Present an argument that would persuade those
who see fetuses as valuable human lives that they should stop seeing them
that way.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 08:11:13 PM |
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Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
wrote in message news:3tj302hrgq8laoumucd09sn2vfejbbp9d7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:39:27 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It's an evil lie.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
abstinence is evil, rape is a virtue.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
27 Feb 2006 06:09:14 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44025fc1$0$58112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
wrote in message news:3tj302hrgq8laoumucd09sn2vfejbbp9d7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:39:27 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
Snort, I ought to, listening the goon squad.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Good, no problem, as long as you acknowledge "..resulting in death."
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
Pro-choicers don't use hateful rhetoric against those who don't comply huh?
? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It's an evil lie.
In what way? In fact it's stated as murder right in most penal codes.
Abortion is just an exception.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
No it's not the same logic. Contraception, as the name suggests *prevents*
conception, hence no pregnancy, no fetus.
abstinence is evil, rape is a virtue.
Ad absurdum, your stock in trade.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
27 Feb 2006 04:28:54 PM |
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Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44025fc1$0$58112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
wrote in message news:3tj302hrgq8laoumucd09sn2vfejbbp9d7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:39:27 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
Snort, I ought to, listening the goon squad.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Good, no problem, as long as you acknowledge "..resulting in death."
Just as your choices result in death.
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
Pro-choicers don't use hateful rhetoric against those who don't comply huh?
Since there is no demand to comply, the answer would be "obviously
not".
? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It's an evil lie.
In what way?
I realize that this is hard for you to understand, but a "lie" is when
you say something that is not true, and it is evil when it is used to
justify hatred and slavery and murder.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
No it's not the same logic.
Of course it is. If preventing birth is bad, then contraception and
abstinence are bad and rape is good.
Contraception, as the name suggests *prevents*
conception,
Irrelevant.
abstinence is evil, rape is a virtue.
Ad absurdum,
Run away, pro-rapist coward.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
28 Feb 2006 03:12:07 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44037d26$0$58096$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44025fc1$0$58112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!"
<xanadu222@mchsi.com>
wrote in message news:3tj302hrgq8laoumucd09sn2vfejbbp9d7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 00:39:27 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
Snort, I ought to, listening the goon squad.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Good, no problem, as long as you acknowledge "..resulting in death."
Just as your choices result in death.
No, not quite.
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
Pro-choicers don't use hateful rhetoric against those who don't comply
huh?
Since there is no demand to comply, the answer would be "obviously
not".
You've been attempting to get me to comply with your way of thinking since I
started posting here, using rhetoric like "sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt,
hateful" to make it happen.
? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It's an evil lie.
In what way?
I realize that this is hard for you to understand, but a "lie" is when
you say something that is not true, and it is evil when it is used to
justify hatred and slavery and murder.
That was a dumb response. You have read the statutes, in Canada, California
and many other jurisdictions, killing a human fetus is murder. An approved
theraputic abortion in both cases is a listed exception, (no longer in South
Dakota) but the fact that it is listed as murder means that it's NOT absurd
at all.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
No it's not the same logic.
Of course it is. If preventing birth is bad, then contraception and
abstinence are bad and rape is good.
Contraception, as the name suggests *prevents*
conception,
Irrelevant.
Not irrelevant, since a life begins at conception.
abstinence is evil, rape is a virtue.
Ad absurdum,
Run away, pro-rapist coward.
You really aren't very bright are you?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
28 Feb 2006 11:05:11 AM |
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Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!"
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
Snort, I ought to, listening the goon squad.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Good, no problem, as long as you acknowledge "..resulting in death."
Just as your choices result in death.
No, not quite.
Yes, quite. You choose to let children starve to death every day.
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
Pro-choicers don't use hateful rhetoric against those who don't comply
huh?
Since there is no demand to comply, the answer would be "obviously
not".
You've been attempting to get me to comply with your way of thinking since I
started posting here,
*****. I've been pointing out to everybody what a lying,
dishonest, hypocritical control freak you are. I don't care if you
ever have an abortion. But when you start spewing your usual lies,
sophistry, and self-serving crap then I will call you on it.
? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It's an evil lie.
In what way?
I realize that this is hard for you to understand, but a "lie" is when
you say something that is not true, and it is evil when it is used to
justify hatred and slavery and murder.
That was a dumb response.
You really must hate the truth.
You have read the statutes, in Canada, California
and many other jurisdictions, killing a human fetus is murder.
And you lie when you try to claim that it's the same as killing an
innocent human. And it is an evil lie, because you call people
murderers for trying to defend themselves from grave harm against a
mindless embryo.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
No it's not the same logic.
Of course it is. If preventing birth is bad, then contraception and
abstinence are bad and rape is good.
No response.
Contraception, as the name suggests *prevents*
conception,
Irrelevant.
Not irrelevant, since a life begins at conception.
An obvious lie since there is life before and after conception.
abstinence is evil, rape is a virtue.
Ad absurdum,
Run away, pro-rapist coward.
You really aren't very bright are you?
Unlike you, I don't end up justifying rape.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
01 Mar 2006 01:24:44 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:440482c7$0$58058$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!"
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being murdered in
their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
Snort, I ought to, listening the goon squad.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Good, no problem, as long as you acknowledge "..resulting in death."
Just as your choices result in death.
No, not quite.
Yes, quite. You choose to let children starve to death every day.
So this gives us permission to go around killing people? I knew you were a
bad sophist, that's lame even for you.
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
Pro-choicers don't use hateful rhetoric against those who don't comply
huh?
Since there is no demand to comply, the answer would be "obviously
not".
You've been attempting to get me to comply with your way of thinking since
I
started posting here,
*****. I've been pointing out to everybody what a lying,
dishonest, hypocritical control freak you are.
You hurl insults because you don't like the way I think. You're trying to
change me.
I don't care if you
ever have an abortion. But when you start spewing your usual lies,
sophistry, and self-serving crap then I will call you on it.
Fine, but I haven't done any of those things.
? Calling the killing of an innocent human murder is hardly absurd.
It's an evil lie.
In what way?
I realize that this is hard for you to understand, but a "lie" is when
you say something that is not true, and it is evil when it is used to
justify hatred and slavery and murder.
That was a dumb response.
You really must hate the truth.
Because I point out your dumb responses?
You have read the statutes, in Canada, California
and many other jurisdictions, killing a human fetus is murder.
And you lie when you try to claim that it's the same as killing an
innocent human.
If killing a fetus is not the killing of an innocent human then why is it
classified as murder?
And it is an evil lie, because you call people
murderers for trying to defend themselves from grave harm against a
mindless embryo.
I didn't say abortion was murder, I said killing a fetus was murder, and you
overstate the risks of pregnancy.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
No it's not the same logic.
Of course it is. If preventing birth is bad, then contraception and
abstinence are bad and rape is good.
No response.
Sorry, that was an idiotic statment. There.
Contraception, as the name suggests *prevents*
conception,
Irrelevant.
Not irrelevant, since a life begins at conception.
An obvious lie since there is life before and after conception.
There is "life" everywhere, there has been for millions of years, that's not
relevant to a particular human life in question.
abstinence is evil, rape is a virtue.
Ad absurdum,
Run away, pro-rapist coward.
You really aren't very bright are you?
Unlike you, I don't end up justifying rape.
Don't blame me for your convoluted *****.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
01 Mar 2006 11:31:24 AM |
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Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!"
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition.
Smirk. Something which you know a lot about.
Snort, I ought to, listening the goon squad.
How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
How about "removal from wombs?"
Good, no problem, as long as you acknowledge "..resulting in death."
Just as your choices result in death.
No, not quite.
Yes, quite. You choose to let children starve to death every day.
So this gives us permission to go around killing people?
Nope. It's further evidence that you really do not care who or what
dies so long as you can force women to do as you say. You are a
hypocrite who expects women to save lives while you remain free to let
children die.
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd??
Absurd, sleazy, desperate, evil, corrupt, hateful...
Pro-choicers don't use hateful rhetoric against those who don't comply
huh?
Since there is no demand to comply, the answer would be "obviously
not".
You've been attempting to get me to comply with your way of thinking since
I
started posting here,
*****. I've been pointing out to everybody what a lying,
dishonest, hypocritical control freak you are.
You hurl insults
It's not an insult if it's true.
I don't care if you
ever have an abortion. But when you start spewing your usual lies,
sophistry, and self-serving crap then I will call you on it.
Fine, but I haven't done any of those things.
There is at least one lie just above.
You have read the statutes, in Canada, California
and many other jurisdictions, killing a human fetus is murder.
And you lie when you try to claim that it's the same as killing an
innocent human.
If killing a fetus is not the killing of an innocent human then why is it
classified as murder?
If a fetus is a human being then why does the law need to explicitely
mention fetuses? It's because fetuses are not human beings according
to the law.
And it is an evil lie, because you call people
murderers for trying to defend themselves from grave harm against a
mindless embryo.
I didn't say abortion was murder, I said killing a fetus was murder, and you
overstate the risks of pregnancy.
I do not. Childbirth causes serious injury and has a real risk of death.
Rape is safer than childbirth and yet rape is a serious felony.
In the
total absence of *any* relevant facts
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that when
abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every time.
And there is the same logic that says contraception is murder,
No it's not the same logic.
Of course it is. If preventing birth is bad, then contraception and
abstinence are bad and rape is good.
No response.
Sorry, that was an idiotic statment.
Because it is based upon YOUR logic.
Contraception, as the name suggests *prevents*
conception,
Irrelevant.
Not irrelevant, since a life begins at conception.
An obvious lie since there is life before and after conception.
There is "life" everywhere,
Which is why your statement is such idiocy.
there has been for millions of years, that's not
relevant to a particular human life in question.
Assuming the conclusion.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
26 Feb 2006 08:40:32 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:13:32 -0800,
Social Retard, "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being mur-
dered in their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition. How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
That's not an oxymoron. It's merely IRRELEVANT to the point
of abject stupidity. Something that's as much of a concern as a
clipped fingernail.
But DO keep up the comedy relief!! ROTFL!!!
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd?? Calling the killing of an...
...UNwanted and thus totally WORTHLESS reproductive-
process entity...
...is hardly absurd.
You're right. It's 'WAY beyond "hardly" absurd. It is PATENTLY
and PROFOUNDLY absurd. Something that only an abjectly IGNORANT
person would ever **whine** about. A loser like you.
It may be technically incorrect in most cases, it may be inflam-
matory, but it's not absurd.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Yeah. Right. << chuckle! snicker! >>
In the total absence of *any* relevant facts...
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that
when abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every
time. When abortion is performed that human life is snuffed out.
JUST as are the EQUALLY-worthless-until-born **quadrillion** gametes
that are electively-aborted DAILY by men, worldwide. ALL of which are
HUMAN... ALIVE... and unique *potential* people, just like zygotes,
embryoes, and fetuses.
So if you weren't a total HYPOCRITE, you'd be whining about those,
and be seeking to in-vitro-fertilize and gestate them.
PEOPLE count. UNwanted mere reproductive-process entities don't
count for diddly, and even the Bible knows that. NO authoritative source
supports the LUDICROUS and hateful stance of the Anti-Choice morons.
... that could possibly support their loathsome stance against
women and personal liberties.
That kind of shallow, motive imputing rhetoric is lame and unproductive.
I've heard that before!! Oh. Yeah. In 1963, when the segregationists
were saying that about blacks who were defending THEIR personal liberties.
Well. No surprise there. Segregationists and RRR cultists. EQUALLY
doltish, hateful, and bigoted louts. Only the TARGETS of such loons have
changed. Blacks then... women and gays, now. The bigots *continue*
to be sociopathic social retards.
It is the pro-choice equivalent of the [Anti-Choice] argument that
pro-choice advocates just enjoy seeing babies murdered.
Nope. What I said was TRUTHFUL, and what *you* have been
saying is nothing but an ignorant and sick JOKE.
Every moral condundrum breeds argumentum a definitum. If it
seems wrong, just change the way you talk about it, soon it won't
bother you at all.
And of course, since there was nothing wrong with abortion
in the first place... it's being nothing more that a hugely valuable
and beneficial REMEDY for a future-opportunities-threatening
UN wanted medical condition, that which you just said is apples-
and-oranges.
Asserting the point of view that you wish to have prevail is not a
compelling form of argument. Present an argument that would persuade
those who see fetuses as valuable human lives that they should stop
seeing them that way.
Why should I do THAT? *All* sensible and intelligent people know
that ALL reproductive-process entities in the human life continuum...
**including** the Stage One entities -- gametes -- are HUMAN, ALIVE,
unique... and *WORTHLESS* when UNwanted.
And a LOT of people who are MORONIC enough to be ANTI-Choicers
are so **profoundly** ignorant as to actually think that life begins at
fertilization. (Which, of course, would require that to get those zygotes,
one would have to have a situation in which two DEAD gametes combined.)
(Are YOU that dumb?)
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
---
RRR Cult lemmings.
Dumber than dirt. America's own version of the Taliban.
Selfishly, hatefully, and mindlessly supporting sociopathic
agendas that seek to destroy vital personal liberties of
millions of people. (That's as dumb as it GETS!!!)
And constantly proving that to everyone.
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
27 Feb 2006 06:28:20 AM |
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"Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote
Something that's as much of a concern as a
clipped fingernail.
Thanks for the quote, now back to your cage cuckoo-bird.
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" |
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| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
27 Feb 2006 12:34:19 PM |
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:28:20 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote...
...NOTHING sensible. Nothing new there.
<stupidity flushed>
<previous post restored> ---
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:13:32 -0800,
Social Retard, "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being mur-
dered in their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition. How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
That's not an oxymoron. It's merely IRRELEVANT to the point
of abject stupidity. Something that's as much of a concern as a
clipped fingernail.
But DO keep up the comedy relief!! ROTFL!!!
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd?? Calling the killing of an...
...UNwanted and thus totally WORTHLESS reproductive-
process entity...
...is hardly absurd.
You're right. It's 'WAY beyond "hardly" absurd. It is PATENTLY
and PROFOUNDLY absurd. Something that only an abjectly IGNORANT
person would ever **whine** about. A loser like you.
It may be technically incorrect in most cases, it may be inflam-
matory, but it's not absurd.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Yeah. Right. << chuckle! snicker! >>
In the total absence of *any* relevant facts...
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that
when abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every
time. When abortion is performed that human life is snuffed out.
JUST as are the EQUALLY-worthless-until-born **quadrillion** gametes
that are electively-aborted DAILY by men, worldwide. ALL of which are
HUMAN... ALIVE... and unique *potential* people, just like zygotes,
embryoes, and fetuses.
So if you weren't a total HYPOCRITE, you'd be whining about those,
and be seeking to in-vitro-fertilize and gestate them.
PEOPLE count. UNwanted mere reproductive-process entities don't
count for diddly, and even the Bible knows that. NO authoritative source
supports the LUDICROUS and hateful stance of the Anti-Choice morons.
... that could possibly support their loathsome stance against
women and personal liberties.
That kind of shallow, motive imputing rhetoric is lame and unproductive.
I've heard that before!! Oh. Yeah. In 1963, when the segregationists
were saying that about blacks who were defending THEIR personal liberties.
Well. No surprise there. Segregationists and RRR cultists. EQUALLY
doltish, hateful, and bigoted louts. Only the TARGETS of such loons have
changed. Blacks then... women and gays, now. The bigots *continue*
to be sociopathic social retards.
It is the pro-choice equivalent of the [Anti-Choice] argument that
pro-choice advocates just enjoy seeing babies murdered.
Nope. What I said was TRUTHFUL, and what *you* have been
saying is nothing but an ignorant and sick JOKE.
Every moral condundrum breeds argumentum a definitum. If it
seems wrong, just change the way you talk about it, soon it won't
bother you at all.
And of course, since there was nothing wrong with abortion
in the first place... it's being nothing more that a hugely valuable
and beneficial REMEDY for a future-opportunities-threatening
UN wanted medical condition, that which you just said is apples-
and-oranges.
Asserting the point of view that you wish to have prevail is not a
compelling form of argument. Present an argument that would persuade
those who see fetuses as valuable human lives that they should stop
seeing them that way.
Why should I do THAT? *All* sensible and intelligent people know
that ALL reproductive-process entities in the human life continuum...
**including** the Stage One entities -- gametes -- are HUMAN, ALIVE,
unique... and *WORTHLESS* when UNwanted.
And a LOT of people who are MORONIC enough to be ANTI-Choicers
are so **profoundly** ignorant as to actually think that life begins at
fertilization. (Which, of course, would require that to get those zygotes,
one would have to have a situation in which two DEAD gametes combined.)
(Are YOU that dumb?)
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
---
RRR Cult lemmings.
Dumber than dirt. America's own version of the Taliban.
Selfishly, hatefully, and mindlessly supporting sociopathic
agendas that seek to destroy vital personal liberties of
millions of people. (That's as dumb as it GETS!!!)
And constantly proving that to everyone.
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
28 Feb 2006 03:13:12 AM |
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"Craig Chilton offered
Something that's as much of a concern as a
clipped fingernail.
LOL! Got the great quote already, but thanks...
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- IMPEACH Perfidious Bush... NOW!!" |
|
| Title: Re: What Will Be The Future Of A World Where Abortion Becomes Routine? |
28 Feb 2006 06:46:33 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:28:20 -0800,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote...
...NOTHING sensible. Nothing new there.
<stupidity flushed>
<previous post restored> ---
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:13:32 -0800,
Social Retard, "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@lycos.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Every year, millions of unborn babies are being mur-
dered in their mothers' wombs.
"Unborn baby" is an oxymoron.
As is "murder... in wombs."
Argument by definition. How about "killing... in wombs", happy?
That's not an oxymoron. It's merely IRRELEVANT to the point
of abject stupidity. Something that's as much of a concern as a
clipped fingernail.
But DO keep up the comedy relief!! ROTFL!!!
Part of the sheer desperation shown by the employment of
absurd word-games on the part of the Anti-Choice loons.
Absurd?? Calling the killing of an...
...UNwanted and thus totally WORTHLESS reproductive-
process entity...
...is hardly absurd.
You're right. It's 'WAY beyond "hardly" absurd. It is PATENTLY
and PROFOUNDLY absurd. Something that only an abjectly IGNORANT
person would ever **whine** about. A loser like you.
It may be technically incorrect in most cases, it may be inflam-
matory, but it's not absurd.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Yeah. Right. << chuckle! snicker! >>
In the total absence of *any* relevant facts...
The relevant fact on which the pro-life position is based is that
when abortion is prevented, a human being is born, almost every
time. When abortion is performed that human life is snuffed out.
JUST as are the EQUALLY-worthless-until-born **quadrillion** gametes
that are electively-aborted DAILY by men, worldwide. ALL of which are
HUMAN... ALIVE... and unique *potential* people, just like zygotes,
embryoes, and fetuses.
So if you weren't a total HYPOCRITE, you'd be whining about those,
and be seeking to in-vitro-fertilize and gestate them.
PEOPLE count. UNwanted mere reproductive-process entities don't
count for diddly, and even the Bible knows that. NO authoritative source
supports the LUDICROUS and hateful stance of the Anti-Choice morons.
... that could possibly support their loathsome stance against
women and personal liberties.
That kind of shallow, motive imputing rhetoric is lame and unproductive.
I've heard that before!! Oh. Yeah. In 1963, when the segregationists
were saying that about blacks who were defending THEIR personal liberties.
Well. No surprise there. Segregationists and RRR cultists. EQUALLY
doltish, hateful, and bigoted louts. Only the TARGETS of such loons have
changed. Blacks then... women and gays, now. The bigots *continue*
to be sociopathic social retards.
It is the pro-choice equivalent of the [Anti-Choic | | | | | | | | | |
