| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Chris S." |
| Date: |
07 Mar 2004 03:35:45 PM |
| Object: |
What's the Point? |
After following the activity in various newsgroups, I can't help but
feel that an important factor is being overlooked. More often than not,
a thread will break down into pedantic bickering and name calling, with
both sides ultimately claiming their beliefs cannot be disproven. While
this may be the case, I propose that it is ultimately irrelevant.
Consider, if you will, an analogy.
When I was a kid I was looking for odd jobs to offset my spending money,
so I offered to cut a neighbor's lawn. I really needed the money, but
the hot summer day soon became hotter and every inch I mowed seemed to
give birth to a yard. The job was taking forever, and I began to despair.
Just then, the neighbor came out and said that if I finished within the
next hour, they'd give me ten extra dollars. I was elated! Suddenly, I
had renewed vigor for my work. No longer did the task seem quite so
burdensome, for I was confident in the belief that I would be richly
rewarded in the afternoon. Soon I finished, and my neighbor inspected
the results.
I was confident in my job. However, I started to worry when they began
to show dissatisfaction. Then they declared that they wouldn't pay me
the bonus! I was horrified. I pleaded, but they were resolute in their
refusal.
For me, that ten dollars did not exist and I would never see it.
However, the fact remains that my belief in this reward and faith in my
neighbor's generosity, however misplaced, comforted me in my time of crisis.
It's important to remember that the first religions arose out of
humanities' inability to cope with a complex world, one often beyond
their ability to control or comprehend. As technology and civilization
advance, less do people fill the need for religion. Long since have
churches lost their absolute grip on society that once afforded
“blasphemers” a death sentence. Yet as long as there is strife and
turmoil in this world, so too will there be, for some, a need of
spiritual comfort.
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| User: "GoDrex" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Point? |
07 Mar 2004 04:46:21 PM |
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"Chris S." <chrisks@NOSPAMudel.edu> wrote in message
news:c2g4ko$9vi$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
(snip nice story)
Long since have
churches lost their absolute grip on society that once afforded
“blasphemers” a death sentence.
Depends on what society you're talking about. As long as religious people
are willing to fly planes into buildings I see religion as potentially
harmful force in the world.
.
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| User: "wawa" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Point? |
07 Mar 2004 05:17:57 PM |
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"Chris S." <chrisks@NOSPAMudel.edu> wrote in message
news:c2g4ko$9vi$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
After following the activity in various newsgroups, I can't help but
feel that an important factor is being overlooked. More often than not,
a thread will break down into pedantic bickering and name calling, with
both sides ultimately claiming their beliefs cannot be disproven. While
this may be the case, I propose that it is ultimately irrelevant.
Consider, if you will, an analogy.
When I was a kid I was looking for odd jobs to offset my spending money,
so I offered to cut a neighbor's lawn. I really needed the money, but
the hot summer day soon became hotter and every inch I mowed seemed to
give birth to a yard. The job was taking forever, and I began to despair.
Just then, the neighbor came out and said that if I finished within the
next hour, they'd give me ten extra dollars. I was elated! Suddenly, I
had renewed vigor for my work. No longer did the task seem quite so
burdensome, for I was confident in the belief that I would be richly
rewarded in the afternoon. Soon I finished, and my neighbor inspected
the results.
I was confident in my job. However, I started to worry when they began
to show dissatisfaction. Then they declared that they wouldn't pay me
the bonus! I was horrified. I pleaded, but they were resolute in their
refusal.
For me, that ten dollars did not exist and I would never see it.
However, the fact remains that my belief in this reward and faith in my
neighbor's generosity, however misplaced, comforted me in my time of
crisis.
snip<
I like certainty. For me, the certainty that this particular neighbor
does not make good on his promises is recompense enough. The information I
now haveabout this particular jerk can benefit others I care about, and
that's worthwhile, too. If the effort or expense required of me was much
greater than I could afford to lose, I might seek ways to mitigate the
possible loss; I might be motivated seek further information on the
individual to whom I might render my services, I might not enter into a
contract in which whether I had performed as contracted was subject to some
arbitrary standard not yet set. IOW, I would be motivated to find ways to
reduce risk in future undertakings, which is not such a bad thing, and I'd
prolly not, to my credit, just become convinced that what I'm screwed out of
in the here-and-now is rather earning interest in the hereafter. That
doesn't seem very adaptive.
Besides, it was just ten dollars. Walk it off.
.
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| User: "Steve Makohin" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Point? |
07 Mar 2004 05:09:44 PM |
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In article <c2g4ko$9vi$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>,
"Chris S." <chrisks@NOSPAMudel.edu> wrote:
After following the activity in various newsgroups, I can't help but
feel that an important factor is being overlooked. More often than not,
a thread will break down into pedantic bickering and name calling, with
both sides ultimately claiming their beliefs cannot be disproven. While
this may be the case, I propose that it is ultimately irrelevant.
Consider, if you will, an analogy.
When I was a kid I was looking for odd jobs to offset my spending money,
so I offered to cut a neighbor's lawn. I really needed the money, but
the hot summer day soon became hotter and every inch I mowed seemed to
give birth to a yard. The job was taking forever, and I began to despair.
Just then, the neighbor came out and said that if I finished within the
next hour, they'd give me ten extra dollars. I was elated! Suddenly, I
had renewed vigor for my work. No longer did the task seem quite so
burdensome, for I was confident in the belief that I would be richly
rewarded in the afternoon. Soon I finished, and my neighbor inspected
the results.
I was confident in my job. However, I started to worry when they began
to show dissatisfaction. Then they declared that they wouldn't pay me
the bonus! I was horrified. I pleaded, but they were resolute in their
refusal.
For me, that ten dollars did not exist and I would never see it.
However, the fact remains that my belief in this reward and faith in my
neighbor's generosity, however misplaced, comforted me in my time of crisis.
It's important to remember that the first religions arose out of
humanities' inability to cope with a complex world, one often beyond
their ability to control or comprehend. As technology and civilization
advance, less do people fill the need for religion. Long since have
churches lost their absolute grip on society that once afforded
³blasphemers² a death sentence. Yet as long as there is strife and
turmoil in this world, so too will there be, for some, a need of
spiritual comfort.
Your beliefs do not correlate with reality is several key areas. for
starters, the first religions did not arise "out of humanities'
inability to cope with a complex world" as you assert, but rather,
from ignorance. Lack of knowledge, lack of critical thinking, lack of
understanding, and abundance of superstition all helped to form
religious beliefs. Interestingly, the purpose of religion has remained
unchanged throughout time, in that it fills the gaps in genuine
knowledge with beliefs and with certainty, but not with understanding.
To put in another way, "God" is the sound that only humans make when
they stop thinking. (Note: Some humans make the "I don't know" sound
when they stop thinking)
Your closing argument in favor of "spiritual comfort" is just a tidy
euphemism for something much simpler: emotional comfort. Without proof
of the existence of deities or any other supernatural phenomenon, the
talk of spirits, souls, ghosts, and other paranormal jargon is just
another filler to clog the gaps in one's genuine knowledge.
I put it to you that people who want to have their understanding
firmly correlating with reality can attain greater levels of emotional
comfort (or diminish emotional pain or turmoil) through a variety of
non-religious methods, some of which include physical activity,
relaxation techniques, attending motivational seminars, spending more
time with loves ones, or seeking psychiatric counsel.
For proponents of "the end justifies the means", a lobotomy can put a
disturbed person at peace, though I do not advocate this measures, as
I do not advocated on-going deceptions or self-delusion in order to
"feel better" or to attain "spiritual comfort." That's why I'm not a
big fan of religion.
-Steve Makohin | Reply to
| (hotmail acct is spam catcher)
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| User: "W.Syme" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Point? |
07 Mar 2004 05:30:34 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:35:45 -0500, "Chris S."
<chrisks@NOSPAMudel.edu> wrote:
It's important to remember that the first religions arose out of
humanities' inability to cope with a complex world, one often beyond
their ability to control or comprehend. As technology and civilization
advance, less do people fill the need for religion.
Well, if you pardon the expression, duh. Even theists know this:
"there are no atheists in foxholes".
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Point? |
07 Mar 2004 05:51:49 PM |
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W.Syme wrote:
On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:35:45 -0500, "Chris S."
<chrisks@NOSPAMudel.edu> wrote:
It's important to remember that the first religions arose out of
humanities' inability to cope with a complex world, one often beyond
their ability to control or comprehend. As technology and civilization
advance, less do people fill the need for religion.
Well, if you pardon the expression, duh. Even theists know this:
"there are no atheists in foxholes".
I can think of two right now. Stoney and my father.
--
Enkidu
AA# 2165
"There once was a time when all people believed in God
and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages."
-- Richard Lederer
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