| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Greywolf" |
| Date: |
09 Aug 2005 10:41:11 PM |
| Object: |
Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
I have just been itchin' to get into an all-out, knock-down,
no-holds-barred, theological debate with some of the more "intellectual"
members of the right-wing evangelical community. I have asked, cajoled, and
pleaded for a right-wing response to some of my less-than-flattering,
anti-right wing Christian posts. But guess what? None of the "heavy hitters"
(even the ones on steroids) on the "other" side have bothered to respond. I
wonder why? Where's Dr. James Kennedy (of "Coral Ridge Hour" fame)? Where's
*any* protégés of Pat Robertson? Where are the "Liberty University"
(Falwell's baby) undergrads? Where are all you right-wingers? You are
remaining conspicuously silent. Afraid of something? What, is defending your
teachings not worth the bother? I'll say this: If a reputable member of the
religious right can't spare the time to pop into alt.atheism and put his (or
her) money where their mouth is, then hang it up. I'm saying your brand of
Christianity is vile. By not showing up in this NG to defend your teachings,
you are only hurting your cause. Be a man! (or woman) Show the rest of your
brethren how easy it is to kick an atheist's theological *****. Try me ... if
you dare!
(Non-right wing evangelical Christians need not apply.)
Greywolf
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| User: "Jerome" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
09 Aug 2005 11:09:42 PM |
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Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Jerome
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:11fitqpkh3e2i69@corp.supernews.com...
I have just been itchin' to get into an all-out, knock-down,
no-holds-barred, theological debate with some of the more "intellectual"
members of the right-wing evangelical community. I have asked, cajoled,
and
pleaded for a right-wing response to some of my less-than-flattering,
anti-right wing Christian posts. But guess what? None of the "heavy
hitters"
(even the ones on steroids) on the "other" side have bothered to respond.
I
wonder why? Where's Dr. James Kennedy (of "Coral Ridge Hour" fame)?
Where's
*any* protégés of Pat Robertson? Where are the "Liberty University"
(Falwell's baby) undergrads? Where are all you right-wingers? You are
remaining conspicuously silent. Afraid of something? What, is defending
your
teachings not worth the bother? I'll say this: If a reputable member of
the
religious right can't spare the time to pop into alt.atheism and put his
(or
her) money where their mouth is, then hang it up. I'm saying your brand of
Christianity is vile. By not showing up in this NG to defend your
teachings,
you are only hurting your cause. Be a man! (or woman) Show the rest of
your
brethren how easy it is to kick an atheist's theological *****. Try me ...
if
you dare!
(Non-right wing evangelical Christians need not apply.)
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 09:08:07 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in message
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06...
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Which god?
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 03:05:47 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in message
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06...
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Jerome
<snip>
How are you asking that? Many things are "possible." If I say that its
"possible" that God exists, I mean that if I were given sufficient proof (at
least in my own eyes) I would, indeed, acknowledge the existence of God. But
I'm not going to be drawn into some intellectual quagmire. The existence of
God, to my mind, is no more real than the existence of "Manfred, the
Invisible Monkey" ("Reprint" provided below.) So in that sense, Yes, I'll
accept the *possibility* that God exists. Do *you* accept the *possibility*
that he *doesn't*? And while I'm here, read the below and respond if you so
chose. Oh, after you read it, re-read it. But this time, mentally substitute
the word "God" for "Manfred" (excepting the end) and then tell me what you
think.
Greywolf
Manfred the Invisible Monkey - Latest Version
Several years ago I became aware of an invisible monkey named
"Manfred" who, unbeknownst to me, often came and sat silently on my
shoulder
as *I* sat contemplating the wonders of the universe. I was unaware of his
existence until one day Manfred "revealed" himself to me in a most
mysterious way. And why me, you ask? I cannot say for sure. He just told
me
that he works in "mysterious ways" and left it at that. Anyway, we now
both just
*love* to discuss both science and the irrationality of right-wing
evangelical Christians. Oh ... and Green Bay Packer football as well. But
I
digress.
I've discovered that Manfred has this supernatural ability to
"create" rain. In fact, every time it rains here in the state of
Wisconsin,
it's because Manfred *causes* it to. I know this to be true because
Manfred
revealed this to me telepathically! (Manfred, unfortunately, does not
possess the gift of normal speech.) Now it *does* rain in the state of
Wisconsin. (You people outside the state *must* have heard of this
regularly
occurring *miracle*.) So there's the "proof" that what I am telling you is
true.
Imagine my surprise when a right-wing evangelical Christian
friend
of mine refused to believe my story. He was actually was outraged by it.
In fact, he told me I was "nuts"! He told me, "If that crap is really
true, tell Manfred to make it rain this very minute!" To my absolute
horror
(and embarrassment), Manfred refused to do so. He told me that he didn't
*feel* like doing it right then. Moreover, he was incensed at being
"ordered
around," by a "clown," and *greatly* resented my friend's skepticism. It
was
when I went back to arguing with my friend, that Manfred suddenly took a
loud deep breath, calmed himself down, and quietly whispered to me (via
telepathy) that if my friend demonstrated a little more faith, he would
*definitely* make it rain sometime next week. My Christian friend left
flabbergasted and shaking his head in amazement.
Now I ask you, "Why such disbelief?" How much proof do skeptical
pooh-pooh heads like him need? It rains in Wisconsin all the time! Where
in
blazes does he think it comes from? The sky? Or maybe through an invisible
*Jesus-God*? Or, what? I don't know. Go figure.
Oh, by the way: If any of *you* fundies don't believe my story, just try
and
"disprove" it. Good luck with that! And, ummm..., What's that Manfred? Oh,
okay. Manfred told me to tell you all, "Hi," "Bye," and "Don't drink and
drive"! He's gotta run.
Oh, if none of you right-wing religious nut-cakes respond to this in a
responsible way, you're admitting you're full of ***** and with nowhere for
it to go. For the last time, *prove* your God exists, or shut up.
Greywolf
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:13:46 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in message
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06...
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Sure, to the same extent as Woden, Quetzacoatl,
Osiris, the Keebler Elves, and Harry Potter.
--
rb #2187
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 12:09:58 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are "not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God" lacks?
How would I know a "God" from a peanut butter sandwich or a powerful but
"not-God" being?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep
under bridges, beg in the streets or steal bread.
- Anatole France (1844-1924)
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| User: "Jerome" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 12:24:10 AM |
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"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are "not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
How would I know a "God" from a peanut butter sandwich or a powerful but
"not-God" being?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep
under bridges, beg in the streets or steal bread.
- Anatole France (1844-1924)
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible, Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
Jerome
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 12:39:43 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are "not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible, Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Jerome" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 12:50:20 AM |
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"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Jerome
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 07:45:41 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in message
news:wAgKe.405$U92.399@okepread06...
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Now that is just *amazing*: the idiot ransacks the Holy Babble for as many
ancient nitwit names as he can shove into his list (and still he spells
'Isaac' wrong...!) -- yet his knowledge of that Babble is so *shallow and
incomplete* that he actually thinks it says his 'God' *created the
universe*!!
Good grief! How do these daft ideas ever get started...?!?
Allow me to be the one who has the honour of informing the twit that
'Genesis' *doesn't say* that its 'God' 'created the universe'! What it says
is the following (Young's Literal Translation):
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --
*SEE???* -- 'preparing', not 'creating'. It's an important distinction --
and immediately afterwards we see *why it's there*:
2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the
face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the
waters
*SEE???* -- the earth was *already there*, and so was *a ***** of a lot of
water*.
So: instead of 'Universe-Creating God', we have merely 'Makeover God': just
move the waters over to one side; bang up a bit of a firmament; stick the
twinkly lights on the underside; a few throw-pillows here and there --- AND
THAT'S *IT*. No 'creation of the universe' AT ALL. Repeat after me: NO
'CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE' *AT ALL*.
Unless you wanna disbelieve what the 'Holy Bible' says...
Katt.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:24:24 AM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:wAgKe.405$U92.399@okepread06:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that
are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that
"God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity, Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in
that definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Your offering is a string of vague legendary beings, and one question-
begging statement.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too
intelligent to come here.
-Arthur C. Clarke
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 05:03:20 AM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Wednesday 10 August 2005 1:50 am
sittin@work.org wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity, Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Jerome
If you could actually read the words that were written, your god (remember
there were two different gods in Genesis with two different creations) did
not create the universe. He took matter that was already there, the waters
of the earth which was empty and without form, and separated the waters
with a helmet [firmament] those from above and those from below. He didn't
create the universe. He only fashioned what was already there.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "Jerome" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:23:09 PM |
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"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3lu1n9F13ndmuU1@individual.net...
After serious contemplation, on or about Wednesday 10 August 2005 1:50 am
sittin@work.org wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity, Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in
that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Jerome
If you could actually read the words that were written, your god (remember
there were two different gods in Genesis with two different creations) did
not create the universe. He took matter that was already there, the
waters
of the earth which was empty and without form, and separated the waters
with a helmet [firmament] those from above and those from below. He
didn't
create the universe. He only fashioned what was already there.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
Either way 'God' exists right? Or maybe God created the plans for those
things first, and then the actual objects later. "Let there be light" -
maybe He first created the physical properties of the universe to support
light transmission, and then created the sun that illuminates our planet.
Or maybe He created other worlds like earth and then the 'second creation'
was this earth specifically. I've often wondered about that myself.
Jerome
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:39:42 PM |
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"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
<...>
Either way 'God' exists right? Or maybe God created the plans for those
things first, and then the actual objects later. "Let there be light" -
maybe He first created the physical properties of the universe to support
light transmission, and then created the sun that illuminates our planet.
Or maybe He created other worlds like earth and then the 'second creation'
was this earth specifically. I've often wondered about that myself.
<...>
Be careful about that *wondering* business. Satan may be at work.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 08:17:54 PM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Wednesday 10 August 2005 2:23 pm
sittin@work.org wrote:
"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3lu1n9F13ndmuU1@individual.net...
After serious contemplation, on or about Wednesday 10 August 2005 1:50 am
sittin@work.org wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that
"God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity, Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in
that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Jerome
If you could actually read the words that were written, your god
(remember there were two different gods in Genesis with two different
creations) did
not create the universe. He took matter that was already there, the
waters
of the earth which was empty and without form, and separated the waters
with a helmet [firmament] those from above and those from below. He
didn't
create the universe. He only fashioned what was already there.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
Either way 'God' exists right?
There is no evidence for any postulated god from any religion, so an honest
person could not come to your conclusion.
Or maybe God created the plans for those
things first, and then the actual objects later. "Let there be light" -
maybe He first created the physical properties of the universe to support
light transmission, and then created the sun that illuminates our planet.
Or maybe He created other worlds like earth and then the 'second creation'
was this earth specifically. I've often wondered about that myself.
Jerome
But since we have texts from earlier cultures' mythology from which the two
separate oral traditions woven into Genesis were fashioned after, there is
no maybe about it. As a lesson read the two Creation Stories very
carefully. Notice that they are not in the same sequence. In one story
god creates man then the animals. In another god creates the animals then
man. In one story god creates a man and a woman, in the other god creates
man and has him unsatisfactorily screwing all the other animals until he
relentingly decides to create a wife out of Adam's side (poorly translated
as rib in your version).
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 08:06:30 PM |
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On 2005-08-10 11:23:09 -0700, "Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
Either way....
<snip>
Or maybe.....
<snip>
maybe He......
<snip>
Or maybe He.....
<snip>
Or maybe it's all a grand fabrication from the get-go. Heck, even
*your* faith is rich in "maybe"s.
Maybe there is a "God," but he/she/they/it is/are nothing like the
Biblegod®. Maybe one shouldn't spend so much time arguing in support
of a particular god-proposition when one isn't so sure what one is
arguing about.
I've often wondered about that myself.
Erm. I haven't.
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --
"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
11 Aug 2005 01:42:47 AM |
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"655321" <> wrote in message
news:2005081018062816807%DipthotDipthot@YahooYahooComCom...
On 2005-08-10 11:23:09 -0700, "Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
Either way....
<snip>
Or maybe.....
<snip>
maybe He......
<snip>
Or maybe He.....
<snip>
Or maybe it's all a grand fabrication from the get-go. Heck, even *your*
faith is rich in "maybe"s.
Maybe there is a "God," but he/she/they/it is/are nothing like the
Biblegod®. Maybe one shouldn't spend so much time arguing in support of a
particular god-proposition when one isn't so sure what one is arguing
about.
I've often wondered about that myself.
Erm. I haven't.
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --
"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim
Spaza
Let me help get this "discussion" back on track. I basically asked where are
all the right-wing, super smart, pastors, preachers, or *any* intellectually
brilliant representatives of the religious right, hiding? Why aren't "they"
here in this NG ripping me (and my dear friend, "Manfred," to theological
pieces? Look through this thread and tell me we've got some "biggies"
defending their vile beliefs. How pathetic! But then again, why *should* any
of them respond? They're too busy trying to take over this country. They're
not going to waste their time embarrassing themselves. They'll leave that to
nincompoops who couldn't defend themselves (theologically speaking) with an
Abrams M1A2 battle tank! Notice how none of the fundies have tried to tackle
the problem of "Manfred"?
Greywolf
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 08:28:18 AM |
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"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3lu1n9F13ndmuU1@
If you could actually read the words that were written, your god (remember
there were two different gods in Genesis with two different creations) did
not create the universe. He took matter that was already there, the
waters
of the earth which was empty and without form, and separated the waters
with a helmet [firmament] those from above and those from below. He
didn't
create the universe. He only fashioned what was already there.
Ah! I've just written substantially the same thing elsewhere in the thread!
Didn't see that you'd already covered this important angle!
:-)
Katt.
.
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 08:22:22 PM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Wednesday 10 August 2005 9:28 am
katt@office.commm wrote:
"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3lu1n9F13ndmuU1@
If you could actually read the words that were written, your god
(remember there were two different gods in Genesis with two different
creations) did
not create the universe. He took matter that was already there, the
waters
of the earth which was empty and without form, and separated the waters
with a helmet [firmament] those from above and those from below. He
didn't
create the universe. He only fashioned what was already there.
Ah! I've just written substantially the same thing elsewhere in the
thread! Didn't see that you'd already covered this important angle!
:-)
Katt.
Sometime in the past year, I posted a detailed translation of this and
variant readings directly from the Hebrew. But I can't remember whether it
was on Usenet, some forum or an AOL message board. Basically it used the
Hebrew from other passages to show that some words translated into English
were intentionally translated to mislead and thus supporting the apologetic
viewpoint which Jerome seems to believe.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
.
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
12 Aug 2005 01:46:28 PM |
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"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3lvnigF14ebunU2@
Sometime in the past year, I posted a detailed translation of this and
variant readings directly from the Hebrew. But I can't remember whether
it
was on Usenet, some forum or an AOL message board. Basically it used the
Hebrew from other passages to show that some words translated into English
were intentionally translated to mislead and thus supporting the
apologetic
viewpoint which Jerome seems to believe.
Hey - that would be good to see! Can't you google a few of the more unusual
terms to see if it was on Usenet...?
Pleeeeeease....?
:-)
Katt.
.
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
12 Aug 2005 02:04:22 PM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 12 August 2005 2:46 pm
katt@office.commm wrote:
"Darrell Stec" <darrell_stec@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:3lvnigF14ebunU2@
Sometime in the past year, I posted a detailed translation of this and
variant readings directly from the Hebrew. But I can't remember whether
it
was on Usenet, some forum or an AOL message board. Basically it used the
Hebrew from other passages to show that some words translated into
English were intentionally translated to mislead and thus supporting the
apologetic
viewpoint which Jerome seems to believe.
Hey - that would be good to see! Can't you google a few of the more
unusual terms to see if it was on Usenet...?
Pleeeeeease....?
:-)
Katt.
I tried. So I posted either to an uncataloged forum or on AOL. Alas I no
longer have access to AOLs message board.
On any of the long complicated pieces I always keep an rtf copy on my hard
drive, however. Well for the moment we won't go there, it is still much
too painful to think about.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "Nick J." |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 12:55:44 AM |
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Jerome wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Your "definition" is just listing a bunch of names that you call your
god. Try again, bucko.
.
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| User: "Jerome" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:13:29 AM |
|
|
"Nick J." <NICK0094@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123653344.462839.265230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jerome wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same
thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are
"not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that
"God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in
that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Your "definition" is just listing a bunch of names that you call your
god. Try again, bucko.
More than I have called the God I am talking about by these names for
centuries. You know, the center of attention for most of Judeo-Christian
belief. The sky pixie as some of you call Him.
Jerome
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 08:42:17 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:13:29 -0500 in alt.atheism, Jerome ("Jerome"
<sittin@work.org>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
"Nick J." <NICK0094@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123653344.462839.265230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jerome wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the same thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that are "not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that "God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Your "definition" is just listing a bunch of names that you call your
god. Try again, bucko.
More than I have called the God I am talking about by these names for
centuries.
Well I must say that you're older than you sound, then. Grammar
permitting.
You know, the center of attention for most of Judeo-Christian
belief. The sky pixie as some of you call Him.
Indeed. But as you may gather, opinion as to the characteristics,
attributes and desires of this supposed entity vary greatly even
within the scope of Christianity. And if one were to take into account
non-Christian religions, well ... the sky's the limit, as it were...
Still, elsewhere you claim "to hate religion". Presumably then you'd
have some difficulty articulating the characteristics, attributes and
desires of this supposed entity, and more importantly putting forward
any reason why your view of why those things are so should be taken
more seriously by the interested onlooker, such as myself, than any
other believers opinion.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. Want food NOW? Then try http://www.rtios.com/
- Yep, currently under test... Your opinion welcome.
.
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| User: "Jerome" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:10:21 PM |
|
|
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:np7jf1hp0p0m5q9drbjfv86avco7rjj4vd@4ax.com...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:13:29 -0500 in alt.atheism, Jerome ("Jerome"
<sittin@work.org>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
"Nick J." <NICK0094@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123653344.462839.265230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jerome wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the
same thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that
are "not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that
"God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in
that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Your "definition" is just listing a bunch of names that you call your
god. Try again, bucko.
More than I have called the God I am talking about by these names for
centuries.
Well I must say that you're older than you sound, then. Grammar
permitting.
You know, the center of attention for most of Judeo-Christian
belief. The sky pixie as some of you call Him.
Indeed. But as you may gather, opinion as to the characteristics,
attributes and desires of this supposed entity vary greatly even
within the scope of Christianity. And if one were to take into account
non-Christian religions, well ... the sky's the limit, as it were...
Still, elsewhere you claim "to hate religion". Presumably then you'd
have some difficulty articulating the characteristics, attributes and
desires of this supposed entity, and more importantly putting forward
any reason why your view of why those things are so should be taken
more seriously by the interested onlooker, such as myself, than any
other believers opinion.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. Want food NOW? Then try http://www.rtios.com/
- Yep, currently under test... Your opinion welcome.
There is a difference between religion and a relationship. Religion is the
surface of things, a relationship is the substance of it. Religion is
concerned with outward appearance, a relationship is concerend with the
inner workings.
Characteristics? The Supreme, All Powerful, Creator of the Universe for
starters. Attibutes? Faithful, All powerful, holy & separate, awesome God
who would stoop to our level to pull us unto Himself if we would just take
His hand. Desires? He desires worship and glory from us, we were created
for that purpose. Glory coming to Him by the fact that an otherwise free
moral agent such as ourselves would bypass our own
Reason why those things should be taken more seriously: Are you comfortable
with death and what lies beyond? Is it worth the chance that God doesn't
exist to
have a few measily years all to yourself? As an intereseted onlooker you
seem to be hungering for the
truth. It is an absolute truth, and that is what most people here can't
handle. Do you need something more in your life than the cold aloneness of
atheism?
Are you waiting for someone to push you off the fence? No one can
do that for you, but that you must do that for yourself. Do any other
beliefs offer free salvation? It is man's stubbornness that sends him into
Hell, not Gods will.
Jerome
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 01:18:53 PM |
|
|
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in message
news:hqrKe.4042$WD.1950@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
snip
snip
Reason why those things should be taken more seriously: Are you
comfortable
with death and what lies beyond?
Sure, why not?
Is it worth the chance that God doesn't
exist to
have a few measily years all to yourself?
Not sure what you're driving at here. Look, do you have any evidence this
god exists or not?
As an intereseted onlooker you
seem to be hungering for the
truth. It is an absolute truth, and that is what most people here can't
handle.
What is an absolute truth? Your god? If so, please prove it. Thank you.
Do you need something more in your life than the cold aloneness of
atheism?
Cold aloneness of atheism? All atheism is, is the lack of belief in god(s).
Do you think atheists don't have families, friends, etc.? I have plenty of
both.
Are you waiting for someone to push you off the fence? No one can
do that for you, but that you must do that for yourself. Do any other
beliefs offer free salvation?
Salvation from what?
It is man's stubbornness that sends him into
Hell, not Gods will.
Please prove that hell exists, thank you.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 02:42:03 PM |
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|
Jerome wrote:
There is a difference between religion and a relationship.
Not when the object of the relationship cannot provide evidence of its
own existence. As far as we know, you're having a "relationship" with
your own temporal lobe.
Religion is the
surface of things, a relationship is the substance of it. Religion is
concerned with outward appearance, a relationship is concerend with the
inner workings.
Religion is the practice of placating, inducing, or persuading a
supernatural being to alter time-space in such a way as to bring about
a desired result for the practitioner of the religion. The desired
result can be anything from a winning lottery ticket to everlasting
life, but if you're attempting to communicate in any way with any
supernatural being and expecting some kind of result from that
communication, you're practicing religion.
And another definition for religion is "superstition." They are
functionally one and the same thing
Characteristics? The Supreme, All Powerful, Creator of the Universe for
starters.
And your evidence in support of this contention would be...?
Attibutes? Faithful, All powerful, holy & separate, awesome God
who would stoop to our level to pull us unto Himself if we would just take
His hand.
First you need to provide evidence that this guy exists.
Desires? He desires worship and glory from us, we were created
for that purpose. Glory coming to Him by the fact that an otherwise free
moral agent such as ourselves would bypass our own
Why? Why would a supernatural being *so* far "above" us require or
desire us to worship it? Why would it need us to "glorify" it? What's
wrong with its psychology, that it needs this kind of treatment? One
would expect better from a truly "supreme" being.
Reason why those things should be taken more seriously: Are you comfortable
with death and what lies beyond?
Yes. Nothing lies beyond death, any more than anything laying "beyond"
birth. Nonexistence is just that, the quality of *not* *existing*. So
far, all the evidence points to this being the condition of the dead,
even as it is the condition of the unborn.
Is it worth the chance that God doesn't exist to have a few measily years all to yourself?
Aw, geez, Pascal's Wager, already. <Spit> Can you people not *ever*
get yourself any new material? Are you not aware that Pascal *himself*
repudiated the wager as being logically flawed?
There's something that you need to understand: atheists aren't
atheists because we "want to have a few measly years all to ourselves,"
or because we don't want to "believe in something bigger than
ourselves," or because we want to leave lives of hedonistic
deprivation.
We're atheists because, in light of the utter paucity of actual
*evidence* supporting the existence of such supernatural creatures
commonly called "gods," we are unable to achieve belief in them. Now
try to process that fact and respond accordingly, please.
As an intereseted onlooker you seem to be hungering for the truth.
Actually, we atheists deal more in facts than in "truth." Truth is
whatever anybody who comes down the pike claims it is, and is subject
to spin; facts and data are not. So, that being the case, do you have
any *facts* for us?
It is an absolute truth, and that is what most people here can't handle.
There is no such thing as absolute truth. See above.
Do you need something more in your life than the cold aloneness of atheism?
<Rhetorical question> Now *why* would you automatically assume that
atheists are cold and alone? </Rhetorical question>
As a former born-again Christian and ex-fundamentalist, let me say that
I'm familiar with this tactic - they taught me to ask the same question
*you* are asking; it's a setup for a pat answer. However, reality is
quite different. There's nothing particularly "cold" or "alone" about
atheism - atheism is simply a condition where one lacks theism, the
belief in gods. Being grounded in reality is actually quite
comfortable, and the knowledge that one is connected to the natural
world leaves one feeling *anything* *but* alone.
Which leads us back to the original question: got any evidence that
any gods exist? What are their characteristics? No Vacation Bible
School crap or fundie rhetoric, please; actually use that brain of
yours to *think* about what's being asked.
Are you waiting for someone to push you off the fence?
I'm not sitting on any fence, and neither are the other atheists on
this forum, although some lurkers may be. (Just by way of
conversation, we have a long list of lurkers *and* former theists who
have grown into atheism after spending time here. Are *you* a new
atheist in training?)
No one can do that for you, but that you must do that for yourself. Do any other
beliefs offer free salvation?
Salvation from what? From the Hell that your god supposedly created
for sinners, even as he gave them free will and put them in an
environment totally lacking in evidence of his existence?
Death is cessation of consciousness. Nothing more, and the *real*
"Good News" is that there's nothing you need to be saved *from*, with
the possible exception of enslavement to a mythological being.
It is man's stubbornness that sends him into Hell, not Gods will.
No, according to your own holy book, it's *God* who sends people to
Hell. According to your scripture, he created humans knowing that the
vast majority of us would *not* become believers; thereby knowing
before their creation that they were doomed everlastingly. It's *God*
who created Hell in the first place, and it's *God* who set the terms
not only of sin, but of blood atonement for sins. Surely an
omnipotent, omni-benevolent, omniscient being could have done better
than that?
It's your God who's the bad guy here, whether you acknowledge that or
not. Or, maybe it's just that "God" is a superstitious construct
developed in the Bronze Age by a tribe of goat- and sheep-herders and
is, as one would logically expect, understandably flawed.
And just so you know, if you try to maintain that evil, freewill, God's
omnipotence and omnibenevolence all exist simultaeously and are all
valid, you'll get eaten alive by the regulars here. Try not to fall
back on what your handlers spoonfeed you, but actually try using your
brain (that thing between your ears inside your skull) to actually
*think* for a change.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
10 Aug 2005 02:58:59 PM |
|
|
On 10 Aug 2005 12:42:03 -0700, "skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote:
Aw, geez, Pascal's Wager, already. <Spit> Can you people not *ever*
get yourself any new material? Are you not aware that Pascal *himself*
repudiated the wager as being logically flawed?
What's this? A virtual deathbed conversion? I hadn't heard this one.
Do tell!
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
--
/Apostate
alt.atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
e-mail to lower-case only
.
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| User: "RainLover" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
11 Aug 2005 08:19:49 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:10:21 GMT, "Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote:
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:np7jf1hp0p0m5q9drbjfv86avco7rjj4vd@4ax.com...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:13:29 -0500 in alt.atheism, Jerome ("Jerome"
<sittin@work.org>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
"Nick J." <NICK0094@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123653344.462839.265230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jerome wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qk4jf1hcmet6gbl8j4l4v0fpkkimr0tkqb@4ax.com...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> said:
"Enkidu the Atheist" <jdwnx4702@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ADE17EFC162255229@130.133.1.4...
"Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote in
news:96fKe.395$U92.374@okepread06:
Do you acknowledge to possibility that God exists?
Define "God". Until you do, we may not be talking about the
same thing.
What properties does a "God" have that differ from objects that
are "not-
God"? What properties do objects that are "not-God" have that
"God"
lacks?
<...>
The great "I AM", The god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Holy
Trinity,
Jesus Christ, The "Alpha and Omega", The God of the Bible,
Adonai-Jehovah,
El-Shaddai, Jehovah-Elohim, Jehovah-Jireh...
So the sole property is having a ton of appellations?
--- Jim07D5
My offering is the definition. The properties are also contained in
that
definition: Creator of the Universe,
et al.
Your "definition" is just listing a bunch of names that you call your
god. Try again, bucko.
More than I have called the God I am talking about by these names for
centuries.
Well I must say that you're older than you sound, then. Grammar
permitting.
You know, the center of attention for most of Judeo-Christian
belief. The sky pixie as some of you call Him.
Indeed. But as you may gather, opinion as to the characteristics,
attributes and desires of this supposed entity vary greatly even
within the scope of Christianity. And if one were to take into account
non-Christian religions, well ... the sky's the limit, as it were...
Still, elsewhere you claim "to hate religion". Presumably then you'd
have some difficulty articulating the characteristics, attributes and
desires of this supposed entity, and more importantly putting forward
any reason why your view of why those things are so should be taken
more seriously by the interested onlooker, such as myself, than any
other believers opinion.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. Want food NOW? Then try http://www.rtios.com/
- Yep, currently under test... Your opinion welcome.
There is a difference between religion and a relationship. Religion is the
surface of things, a relationship is the substance of it. Religion is
concerned with outward appearance, a relationship is concerend with the
inner workings.
You have a 'relationship' with your imagination, nothing more.
Characteristics? The Supreme, All Powerful, Creator of the Universe for
starters. Attibutes? Faithful, All powerful, holy & separate, awesome God
who would stoop to our level to pull us unto Himself if we would just take
His hand.
Stoop? I thought your god made us in its image? What stooping is
necessary?
And why is it you have to hold your imaginary friend's hand again?
Desires? He desires worship and glory from us, we were created
for that purpose.
Ah, your god CREATED beings just so they can worship him. Sounds more
like a 4 year old lording over an ant farm than a creator-of-humans if
you ask me.
Reason why those things should be taken more seriously: Are you comfortable
with death and what lies beyond? Is it worth the chance that God doesn't
exist to have a few measily years all to yourself?
Where is your evidence of something AFTER you rot in the ground?
What's that you say? Someone TOLD you that someone told them that
someone told them that there's a golden thrown waiting for them after
they die? Does that come with or without the 20 supple virgins?
As an intereseted onlooker you
seem to be hungering for the
truth. It is an absolute truth, and that is what most people here can't
handle.
This "absolute" truth of yours is MADE UP. It's FANTASY. It's as
real as Mohammad, and Krishna, and Mithras, and DreamWorld.
Do you need something more in your life than the cold aloneness of
atheism?
Who told you atheists are lonely? Oh yeah... your fellow Christians.
I used to believe the same fucking lies when *I* was a Christian, but,
you know what?? YOU'VE BEEN LIED TO. Your religious leaders, your
friends, your family and your book LIE and you buy it, hook, line, and
sinker.
Are you waiting for someone to push you off the fence? No one can
do that for you, but that you must do that for yourself.
Most atheists are sitting on the fence... heck, most agnostics aren't
on the fence either. Personally, I think YOU are the one with doubts
here and are hoping your ranting about your god will help you find
more faith.
Do any other
beliefs offer free salvation? It is man's stubbornness that sends him into
Hell, not Gods will.
Let's see... Your god devises the following system:
1. Follow and worship *ME* and be rewarded.
2. Don't worship *ME* and I'll condemn you to an eternaty of
brimstone, hellfire and unceasing torture.
But... Hey, it's YOUR choice.
Do you honestly BELIEVE this crap?
james, seattle
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
11 Aug 2005 08:56:22 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 06:19:49 -0700 in alt.atheism, RainLover
(RainLover <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:10:21 GMT, "Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote:
[snip]
There is a difference between religion and a relationship. Religion is the
surface of things, a relationship is the substance of it. Religion is
concerned with outward appearance, a relationship is concerend with the
inner workings.
You have a 'relationship' with your imagination, nothing more.
A contention that Jerome could easily lay to rest, or at least make a
bit more credible, by citing something where Jerome's opinions differ
from those of the one he claims to have a relationship with.
You see, the funny thing is that no matter where one hears of these
relationships, the ostensive major party always seems to agree with
the minor party in absolutely every respect.
Despite the contradictions this entails between individuals who claim
a relationship with the same entity.
Very odd, eh? I wonder how one might explain it!?
[snip]
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. Want food NOW? Then try http://www.rtios.com/
- Yep, currently under test... Your opinion welcome.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Where are the "Heavy Hitters"? |
18 Aug 2005 11:04:34 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:56:22 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 06:19:49 -0700 in alt.atheism, RainLover
(RainLover <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:10:21 GMT, "Jerome" <sittin@work.org> wrote:
[snip]
There is a difference between religion and a relationship. Religion is the
surface of things, a relationship is the substance of it. Religion is
concerned with outward appearance, a relationship is concerend with the
inner workings.
You have a 'relationship' with your imagination, nothing more.
A contention that Jerome could easily lay to rest, or at least make a
bit more credible, by citing something where Jerome's opinions differ
from those of the one he claims to have a relationship with.
You see, the funny thing is that no matter where one hears of these
relationships, the ostensive major party always seems to agree with
the minor party in absolutely every respect.
Despite the contradictions this entails between individuals who claim
a relationship with the same entity.
Very odd, eh? I wonder how one might explain it!?
Fear and the attempted placation of it to retain/regain some level of
functionality.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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