| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
06 Aug 2005 12:51:14 PM |
| Object: |
Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
They can't go to Heaven because they don't meet the requirements >for salv=
ation as set forth in the Bible, ie -- be baptized, >repent of your sins, a=
nd believe on Jesus. Think of all the >infants roasting in Hell right now.
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies, then Jesus should
"automatically" cover a whole lot of other people as well, including
those who were unable to believe because no evidence was presented to
them.
And if the age of accountability is, for instance, twelve, does this
mean that immediately after his twelfth birthday, a boy's sins will
send him to hell unless he repents? This seems arbitrary at best to me.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-tr.html
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath !
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| User: "Malcolm" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 02:53:20 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
And if the age of accountability is, for instance, twelve, does this
ean that immediately after his twelfth birthday, a boy's sins will
end him to hell unless he repents? This seems arbitrary at best to me.
Humans steadily gain moral faculties to adulthood, and then slowly lose them
as old age approaches.
For instance we had a case in Britain a few years ago where two boys of
about twelve murdered a toddler. However these cases are extremely rare. It
is certainly almost unherad of for murderers to be below the age of ten. It
is not at all uncommon for older teenagers to kill, however.
As children get older their actions steadily become more considered, more
deliberate, and use greater resources and determination. So the potential
for evil as well as for good increases dramatically.
"The evil man is the child grown strong."
Only God knows the internal moral state of another being. It certainly
possible that average children who have more or less obeyed their parents,
and done the normal childhood things, but not actually made any sort of
religious commitment, are not saved. Very few children are declared to be
saints. However it is also possible that the prayers and actions of adults
in some way assist such children. Just as you wouldn't expect a child to
obtain food for himself, maybe they also rely on us for spiritual goods.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 08:29:18 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
According to George Carlin, unbaptised babies go to "Limbo".
However, the Catholic church no longer teaches this concept.
So, they must go where everyone else does - NO WHERE.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 08:32:03 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in news:3ll6faF123gqoU1
@individual.net:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
According to George Carlin, unbaptised babies go to "Limbo".
No fair! They're so small, there's no way I can go that low!
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
These televangelists say they don't favor any particular denomination, but
I think
we've all seen their eyes light up at tens and twenties...
-- Dennis Miller
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 01:35:49 AM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
According to George Carlin, unbaptised babies go to "Limbo".
However, the Catholic church no longer teaches this concept.
So, they must go where everyone else does - NO WHERE.
It's now spelled "New Jersey", in case you missed the memo.
;-)
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 06:37:51 AM |
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"Olrik" <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> wrote in message
news:bZhJe.33409$De.1431180@wagner.videotron.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
According to George Carlin, unbaptised babies go to "Limbo".
However, the Catholic church no longer teaches this concept.
So, they must go where everyone else does - NO WHERE.
It's now spelled "New Jersey", in case you missed the memo.
HEY! I LIVE in New Jersey!
But, I guess you knew that, wiseass! ;)
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "VO" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 03:29:57 PM |
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"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
They can't go to Heaven because they don't meet the requirements >for
salvation as set forth in the Bible, ie -- be baptized, >repent of your
sins, and believe on Jesus. Think of all the >infants roasting in Hell
right now.
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies, then Jesus should
"automatically" cover a whole lot of other people as well, including
those who were unable to believe because no evidence was presented to
them.
Baptism is NOT a requirement to be saved.
God chooses.
Repentance is a RESULT, not cause.
Christians know this.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 08:31:03 PM |
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VO wrote:
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
They can't go to Heaven because they don't meet the requirements >for
salvation as set forth in the Bible, ie -- be baptized, >repent of
your sins, and believe on Jesus. Think of all the >infants roasting
in Hell right now.
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies, then Jesus should
"automatically" cover a whole lot of other people as well, including
those who were unable to believe because no evidence was presented to
them.
Baptism is NOT a requirement to be saved.
God chooses.
Repentance is a RESULT, not cause.
Christians know this.
Both of them and neither is sure about the other.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 03:14:09 PM |
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In episode <1123350674.509238.303090@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Truth
Hunter burst into the room and exclaimed:
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
They can't go to Heaven because they don't meet the requirements >for
salvation as set forth in the Bible, ie -- be baptized, >repent of your
sins, and believe on Jesus. Think of all the >infants roasting in Hell
right now.
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies
EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 01:57:02 PM |
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On 6 Aug 2005 10:51:14 -0700, "Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "R. Pierce Butler" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 10:36:36 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:bu1af1p1bfnhg8h1fgr9g9hhivcsjas9fb@4ax.com:
On 6 Aug 2005 10:51:14 -0700, "Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Duke, you liar. How did you escape my bozo bucket? Back you go.
plonk
rj
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 04:19:20 PM |
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on 06 Aug 2005 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On 6 Aug 2005 10:51:14 -0700, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
Why does that make a difference? What is this religious association with
swimming? Maybe it just an excuse for the priest to see the children
naked. Think so puke?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
______________
'03 XVS650A
'04 XVS1100
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 03:20:06 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:19:20 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
Why does that make a difference? What is this religious association with
swimming? Maybe it just an excuse for the priest to see the children
naked. Think so puke?
I know otherwise. They are incapable of sinning, which takes knowledge of sin
and the desire to proceed to sin. So those that are born without the benefit of
having the natural flaw to sin be removed, they are given a place short of
heaven, but certainly not hell.
See, you are so ignorant of what is going on.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 03:26:23 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:19:20 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
Why does that make a difference? What is this religious association
with swimming? Maybe it just an excuse for the priest to see the
children naked. Think so puke?
I know otherwise. They are incapable of sinning, which takes
knowledge of sin and the desire to proceed to sin. So those that are
born without the benefit of having the natural flaw to sin be removed,
they are given a place short of heaven, but certainly not hell.
See, you are so ignorant of what is going on.
At what age does a child develop the ability to "sin"?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
______________
'03 XVS650A
'04 XVS1100
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
08 Aug 2005 05:29:21 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:26:23 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
At what age does a child develop the ability to "sin"?
I already explained that to you - when maturity is arrived at such that the
person knows that something is wrong, and does it anyway in spite of it being
wrong. That's why atheists are in such deep deaux-deaux.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
08 Aug 2005 10:47:15 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:26:23 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
At what age does a child develop the ability to "sin"?
I already explained that to you - when maturity is arrived at such
that the person knows that something is wrong, and does it anyway in
spite of it being wrong.
So "sin" is childhood rebellion? Give me a break. ALL children do this.
That's why atheists are in such deep
deaux-deaux.
Non-sequitur.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
______________
'03 XVS650A
'04 XVS1100
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
09 Aug 2005 07:30:27 PM |
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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 22:47:15 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:26:23 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
At what age does a child develop the ability to "sin"?
I already explained that to you - when maturity is arrived at such
that the person knows that something is wrong, and does it anyway in
spite of it being wrong.
So "sin" is childhood rebellion? Give me a break. ALL children do this.
That's why atheists are in such deep
deaux-deaux.
Non-sequitur.
Living where it does, the fuckdumbo32 ought to know that what it spelled is properly
pronounced "dough dough". Imbecile.
--
/Apostate
alt.atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
e-mail to lower-case only
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
10 Aug 2005 05:54:25 PM |
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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 22:47:15 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:26:23 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
At what age does a child develop the ability to "sin"?
I already explained that to you - when maturity is arrived at such
that the person knows that something is wrong, and does it anyway in
spite of it being wrong.
So "sin" is childhood rebellion? Give me a break. ALL children do this.
Nope, young adults.
That's why atheists are in such deep
deaux-deaux.
Non-sequitur.
You don't understand.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 03:43:11 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:19:20 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
Why does that make a difference? What is this religious association
with swimming? Maybe it just an excuse for the priest to see the
children naked. Think so puke?
I know otherwise. They are incapable of sinning, which takes
knowledge of sin and the desire to proceed to sin. So those that are
born without the benefit of having the natural flaw to sin be
removed, they are given a place short of heaven, but certainly not
hell.
See, you are so ignorant of what is going on.
As usual Earl has it wrong. (The term limbo no longer even exists in the RCC
catechism.)
The church now says:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only
entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them.
Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and
Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children
come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of
salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is
the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through
the gift of holy Baptism."
No mention of a place "short of heaven" is mentioned any more.
If Earl ever thought about what he writes it would be obvious that the RCC
must make such changes as hell is pretty much defined as not being in the
presence of god. They closed down the fire and brimstone pits quite some
time ago.
Either you are in the presence (heaven) or you are not (hell) Close doesn't
count except in horseshoes, hand-grenades and Earl's occasional attempts at
humor.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
08 Aug 2005 05:33:50 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:43:11 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
I know otherwise. They are incapable of sinning, which takes
knowledge of sin and the desire to proceed to sin. So those that are
born without the benefit of having the natural flaw to sin be
removed, they are given a place short of heaven, but certainly not
hell.
See, you are so ignorant of what is going on.
As usual Earl has it wrong. (The term limbo no longer even exists in the RCC
catechism.)
Yet I don't.
A supposed location, never defined, is no longer discussed. The state of limbo
is still there by your own copied definition.
Better luck next time, mikey.
The church now says:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only
entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them.
Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and
Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children
come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of
salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is
the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through
the gift of holy Baptism."
No mention of a place "short of heaven" is mentioned any more.
Just like I said - no location, but knowledge otherwise, you're out in left
field.
If Earl ever thought about what he writes it would be obvious that the RCC
must make such changes as hell is pretty much defined as not being in the
presence of god. They closed down the fire and brimstone pits quite some
time ago.
You need to learn to read, mikey. I would guess you to be an extraordinarily
quite if you followed your advice.
Either you are in the presence (heaven) or you are not (hell) Close doesn't
count except in horseshoes, hand-grenades and Earl's occasional attempts at
humor.
But only if I'm wrong, and I'm not.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
09 Aug 2005 07:30:53 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:43:11 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I know otherwise. They are incapable of sinning, which takes
knowledge of sin and the desire to proceed to sin. So those that
are born without the benefit of having the natural flaw to sin be
removed, they are given a place short of heaven, but certainly not
hell.
See, you are so ignorant of what is going on.
As usual Earl has it wrong. (The term limbo no longer even exists in
the RCC catechism.)
Yet I don't.
A supposed location, never defined, is no longer discussed. The
state of limbo is still there by your own copied definition.
Odd that for something as "never defined" the Catholic Encyclopedia has such
a large entry.
Not odd that you would use the word you say is not defined and never
discussed in the next sentence, thus continuing the discussion.
Better luck next time, mikey.
The church now says:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her
funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires
that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children
which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder
them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for
children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the
Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ
through the gift of holy Baptism."
No mention of a place "short of heaven" is mentioned any more.
Just like I said - no location, but knowledge otherwise, you're out
in left field.
Booze talk.
If Earl ever thought about what he writes it would be obvious that
the RCC must make such changes as hell is pretty much defined as not
being in the presence of god. They closed down the fire and
brimstone pits quite some time ago.
You need to learn to read, mikey. I would guess you to be an
extraordinarily quite if you followed your advice.
Either you are in the presence (heaven) or you are not (hell) Close
doesn't count except in horseshoes, hand-grenades and Earl's
occasional attempts at humor.
But only if I'm wrong, and I'm not.
Earl is never wrong. Just ask him.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
10 Aug 2005 05:57:51 PM |
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On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:30:53 GMT, "Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Odd that for something as "never defined" the Catholic Encyclopedia has such
a large entry.
Like I said, dummy, it's still there.
Not odd that you would use the word you say is not defined and never
discussed in the next sentence, thus continuing the discussion.
You must be having an awful time understanding "defined", mikey.
Better luck next time, mikey.
The church now says:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her
funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires
that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children
which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder
them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for
children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the
Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ
through the gift of holy Baptism."
No mention of a place "short of heaven" is mentioned any more.
That was limbo, dummy.
Just like I said - no location, but knowledge otherwise, you're out
in left field.
Booze talk.
Nailed you, as usual.
Earl is never wrong. Just ask him.
When around you, never.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
10 Aug 2005 07:02:57 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:30:53 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Odd that for something as "never defined" the Catholic Encyclopedia
has such a large entry.
Like I said, dummy, it's still there.
Not odd that you would use the word you say is not defined and never
discussed in the next sentence, thus continuing the discussion.
You must be having an awful time understanding "defined", mikey.
Better luck next time, mikey.
The church now says:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her
funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires
that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children
which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not
hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for
children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the
Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ
through the gift of holy Baptism."
No mention of a place "short of heaven" is mentioned any more.
That was limbo, dummy.
Just like I said - no location, but knowledge otherwise, you're out
in left field.
Booze talk.
Nailed you, as usual.
Earl is never wrong. Just ask him.
When around you, never.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 10:18:17 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Mike Painter
(mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral
rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all
men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which
caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"
allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who
have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call
not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of
holy Baptism."
Great mercy of God, my hairy *****. I wonder if this is the same merciful
god that doesn't give a ***** if you've killed 15 teenagers, eaten their
livers, and dumped their bodies in the ivy next to a freeway interchange,
as long as you accept him and no other gods as your savior.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
______________
'03 XVS650A
'04 XVS1100
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
08 Aug 2005 05:36:46 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:18:17 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Mike Painter
(mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral
rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all
men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which
caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"
allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who
have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call
not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of
holy Baptism."
Great mercy of God, my hairy *****. I wonder if this is the same merciful
god that doesn't give a ***** if you've killed 15 teenagers, eaten their
livers, and dumped their bodies in the ivy next to a freeway interchange,
as long as you accept him and no other gods as your savior.
Another atheist who doesn't know his rectum from his mouth about God. No
wonder you're an atheist. Any goofy person who does such a thing does not
accept either God or his saving influence.
By definition, uncle dummy.
Good grief.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
08 Aug 2005 11:01:33 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Great mercy of God, my hairy *****. I wonder if this is the same
merciful god that doesn't give a ***** if you've killed 15 teenagers,
eaten their livers, and dumped their bodies in the ivy next to a
freeway interchange, as long as you accept him and no other gods as
your savior.
Another atheist who doesn't know his rectum from his mouth about God.
No wonder you're an atheist. Any goofy person who does such a thing
does not accept either God or his saving influence.
Do you know your rectum from your mouth about God?
Then please tell us what purpose the clergy person serves during the
condemned prisoner's last moments. Is he just thumbing his nose at the
guy, laughing at how he could have had it all?
Why do death-row inmates believe they are saved, because they have
accepted Jeeebus into their hearts, the only prescribed requirement for
entrance to heaven?
Why do you have a problem with experiencing eternal life with Geoffrey
Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, and Ted Bundy, who confessed their sins, accepted
your Jesus, and are waiting for you to arrive so you can begin rejoicing
in the Lord together?
If a serial killer confesses his crimes before God, is he not entitled to
the same mercy as anyone else? After all, the only unforgivable crime,
according to the bible anyway, is Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Unless
you can come up with chapter and verse that proves otherwise...
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
______________
'03 XVS650A
'04 XVS1100
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 11:41:39 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Mike Painter
(mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral
rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all
men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which
caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"
allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who
have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call
not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of
holy Baptism."
Great mercy of God, my hairy *****. I wonder if this is the same
merciful god that doesn't give a ***** if you've killed 15 teenagers,
eaten their livers, and dumped their bodies in the ivy next to a
freeway interchange, as long as you accept him and no other gods as
your savior.
Possibly. It almost certainly is the one who allows the death of almost 3
million people, most children, a year, from malaria alone and the Christian
Children's Fund just told me that 27,000 children died yesterday and that I
should feel guilty and send money.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
08 Aug 2005 12:20:38 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Mike Painter
(mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Mike Painter
(mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church
can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her
funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires
that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children
which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder
them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for
children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the
Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ
through the gift of holy Baptism."
Great mercy of God, my hairy *****. I wonder if this is the same
merciful god that doesn't give a ***** if you've killed 15 teenagers,
eaten their livers, and dumped their bodies in the ivy next to a
freeway interchange, as long as you accept him and no other gods as
your savior.
Possibly. It almost certainly is the one who allows the death of
almost 3 million people, most children, a year, from malaria alone and
the Christian Children's Fund just told me that 27,000 children died
yesterday and that I should feel guilty and send money.
Which they will probably use for postage so they can send out more
mailers.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
http://home.comcast.net/~vickman/
______________
'03 XVS650A
'04 XVS1100
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 04:03:05 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:19:20 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies,
They're not automatically baptized.
Why does that make a difference? What is this religious association with
swimming? Maybe it just an excuse for the priest to see the children
naked. Think so puke?
I know otherwise. They are incapable of sinning, which takes knowledge of sin
and the desire to proceed to sin.
Therefore, Adam and Eve did not sin, because they did have the knowledge
of sin prior to the eating of the fruit. They did not know that doing
what God told them not to do was a "sin" because he never told them
about "sin."
So those that are born without the benefit of
having the natural flaw to sin be removed, they are given a place short of
heaven, but certainly not hell.
See, you are so ignorant of what is going on.
Says the man with blinders on.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 10:30:33 AM |
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The_Sage and Truth Hunter both miss a couple of points here.
As to babies failing of heaven in consequence of having not been
baptized, II Sam. 12:15-23 offers some interesting thoughts on the
matter. David's infant son is desperately ill. David fasts and weeps on
the child's behalf, but at the age of seven days he dies.
Mosaic law had mandated that all male children be circumcised on the
eighth day. It was the sign and seal of their identity and inclusion in
the body of God's covenant people. Having died the day prior, David's
son had not been circumcised. Did the child then go to perdition? David
did not think so.
When asked as to his calm acceptance of the infant's death, David
replied: "Now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back
again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me" (II Sam.
12:23). Did David anticipate joining his son in eternal perdition? Of
course not.
As to "those who were unable to believe because no evidence was
presented to them," Paul addresses this theme in his Epistle to the
Romans. Here it is clearly stated that those having never heard the
Gospel are incapable of responding to its message or of calling upon
Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:14). Such is not necessarily the end of the
story, however.
The situation of those having not heard is addressed earlier in the
epistle where Paul addresses a standard of judgment applied to those
without the Gospel, based upon their adherence to light possessed (Rom.
2:12-16).
Does this negate salvation by grace based upon Christ's atoning work of
the Cross? By no means! It simply means that we are not told as to the
means by which redemptive grace and pardon will be applied to those
coming under this provision. Nor is the apostle's exposition here
without scriptural confirmation. Jesus himself (without further detail
or explanation) spoke of a "forgiveness in the age to come" (Matt.
12:32).
What does this all mean? Simply this:
1. As those having heard of Jesus Christ and his redemptive sacrifice
for mankind, we shall be held accountable.
2. Those having not heard, or who do not possess the capacity to
respond, are not necessarily excluded from God's grace.
As much as it may hurt our spiritual pride, the latter comes under the
heading:
WE ARE NOT TOLD EVERYTHING, NOR DO WE KNOW EVERYTHING (I Cor. 13:12).
We do know, however, that God is a God of grace and that "the judge of
all the earth shall do right" (Gen. 18:25).
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 04:04:26 PM |
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wrote:
1. As those having heard of Jesus Christ and his redemptive
sacrifice for mankind, we shall be held accountable.
Sorry, but your hate speach isn't welcome 'round these here
parts. I refuse to be bullied into buying into your ***** just
because you say I'll burn in Hell if I don't trust you.
Your coming into an atheist newsgroup and spouting this kind of
coercive nonsense is as welcome to us as would be a disciple of
Wotan coming into your Christian newsgroups and telling y'all that
you'll never make it into Valhalla if you don't die a glorious
enough death in battle to impress the Valkyries.
I imagine the Muslims you just spewed on feel much the same.
Now kindly bugger off, and save your preaching for those who
haven't already heard and rejected it.
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
All but God can prove this sentence true.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
07 Aug 2005 10:01:37 AM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
If Jesus "automatically" covers babies, then Jesus should
"automatically" cover a whole lot of other people as well,
including those who were unable to believe because no evidence
was presented to them.
What about brain-dead people like Duke who believe things when no
evidence is presented to them and deny things when evidence is
presented?
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Where do infants sinner go when they die? |
06 Aug 2005 01:59:46 PM |
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Truth Hunter wrote:
The_Sage wrote
Where do infants sinner go when they die?
They can't go to Heaven because they don't meet the requirements
for salvation as set forth in the Bible, ie -- be baptized, >repent
of your sins, and believe on Jesus. Think of all the >infants
roasting in Hell right now.
It depends on the cult and the times.
The Catholic church used to send them to Limbo, a place of perfect happiness
but without god. That's falling into disfavor now since hell has been
changed from a burning pit to just the absence of god, so the newer babies
go to heaven.
Most other Christians say the kid goes to heaven because their god is not
evil.
Many fundie sects say that without being saved you go to hell. Period.
That has been in effect since JC went to heaven.
They also claim life begins at fertilization.
That means that between 2/3 and 3/4 of all "people" are in hell since that's
the estimated number of fertilized eggs that never make it.
Until recent times, living past the age of five was something a significant
number of people never did.
I could go on but I estimate that between 90% and 95% of all people ever
conceived are in hell now if the fundies are right.
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