| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
02 Mar 2006 03:10:25 PM |
| Object: |
WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
All religious beliefs are based on pure 'FAITH', not on ANY TANGIBLE
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE 'SCIENTIFIC' EVIDENCE.
There are thousands of different and contradictory religious and God
beliefs. How does anyone know his is the correct one? 'IF' there is a REAL
God, why does he not appear or communicate to all mankind and show he is the
real God and that all the others are fakes? Man can accurately communicate
with the whole world via TV, the Internet, Telephone, Newsprint, and Radio.
Why can't any REAL god communicate with all of mankind in an equal or even
more effective manner??? Why does the real God not inform all of mankind in
a clear unquestionable manner that he is the real God and what are his
wishes and demands? Why does any real God refuse to clear up all this
confusion? Why can't a real god smite all of the fakes and end the
confusion?
Has ANY God spoken to you other than in your dreams? Is there ANY tangible,
OBJECTIVE VERIFIABLE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE for the existence of ANY Gods?
There are people in
ALL religions that have claimed to see or communicate with "their" god. It
is evident that these people fit into one of two categories. There are those
that are seriously psychotic and hallucinate and there are those that lie to
impress their followers. There are thousands of God beliefs. Which, if any,
is the real God and which are fakes? Have any dead relatives or friends
actually communicated with SANE people except in their dreams? Why does any
real god avoid or prohibit this communication from dead loved ones and
friends? If there was a real god you would think he would actually encourage
this kind of authentification and communication of his
wishes and commands..
Why does this all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Wars,
Earth Quakes, Cancers and thousands of debilitating diseases, serious body
malfunctions and starvation that punish people of all faiths and morality?
There are over 10,000 known diseases that torture and kill man. Why would
this omnificent all loving, all powerful god create all these catastrophes
to indiscriminately torture and kill his creations??? These catastrophes
affect people of ALL religious beliefs and morality including TOTALLY
INNOCENT CHILDREN! Is this evidence of a loving powerful God creator of the
Universe?
There is a parasitic worm in West Africa that bores through the eyes of
children
and causes total blindness for the rest of their lives.
There is a Fox sized animal on the Australian Island of Tasmania that is
being wiped out by an infectious cancer that grows on the animal's snout
until it no longer can eat and starves to death.
Why would a god creator punish an innocent animal is such a cruel fashion?
There are thousands of diseases and birth defects that affect millions of
people (and totally innocent animals and children) of all religious
persuasions. Is this the unerring work of an all powerful, all caring and
loving God??? Why would this god create all this cruelty?
Logic and common sense refutes the existence of any omnipotent Gods
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him a God?
What distinguishes theology from mythology and astrology? All three are
founded on myth,
folklore and legend. NONE are based on scientific knowledge and objective,
verifiable, reproducible evidence..
The religious faiths are not founded on faith in God but faith in MEN.
Religious texts? They were created centuries before the invention of the
printing press. Written, interpreted, hand copied, modified, altered and
recopied by hundreds of MEN over thousands of years by other MEN. Inspired
by God? So MEN say. Which books are Scripture? The ones chosen by MEN. What
do they mean? What MEN say they mean. Dictated by God? Just the OPINION of
errant MEN. What is God telling you? Whatever MEN (ordinary selfish. self
promoting, errant humans) CLAIM he is telling you. These religious texts are
nothing but folklore, myth, contradictory and impossible stories created by
MEN. There is not one shred of objective verifiable evidence that ANY of
these ancient documents are the word of ANY God. The objective EVIDENCE is
they are pure myths and fables.
Of all the THOUSANDS of God beliefs and claims, how do we know which is the
real God and which are fakes? What MEN tell their flock is the real God???
Since no real God shows up in person from the heavens, or on International
TV, Radio, or the Internet to give us anything to believe in, the only
option available to us is to put our trust in what selfish errant MEN say
and think about Gods. To put one's faith in the stories, superstitions,
myths and subjective thoughts and feelings of ancient MEN is not faith in
God, but faith in errant MEN. Faith in what greedy avaricious MEN, who we
have never met and have NO objective knowledge of their veracity and
honesty. Ultimately, it is faith in MEN not God!
Real objective evidence about the Universe and life on earth has only
developed and become general knowledge in the past 300 years. Before the
modern age, knowledge of life and the world was base on no more than myths,
fables and mans opinions and unsubstantiated conjecture..
There have been thousands of different and contradictory god beliefs over
the centuries.
It appears that ALL Gods are fakes and inventions of selfish errant MEN.
The objective evidence is rather obvious that NO GODS CREATED MAN but quite
the opposite; that MAN HAS CREATED THOUSANDS OF IMAGINARY GODS!
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| User: "xeno" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
07 Mar 2006 02:43:05 AM |
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On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Pastor Frank wrote:
Gods are not goals to persue, but but supposed, actually
existing beings.
===>"Gods" are the original "aliens" invented by human story tellers.
They belong with Cyclopses, Giants, Dragons, Unicorns, etc. in
the realm of fiction, same as Klingons, Martians, Tribbles,
Vulcans, Romulans, Borg, Pleiadeans, etc. -- L.
Is that why Christ said in Matthew. 5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even
as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. How many "perfect aliens"
worthy of emulation do you know Libertine?
None. Perfection is indeterminate, & being so, would be impossible to
emulate or obtained.
Are you Libertine, or just his mouth piece?
You got an answer to your stupid ***** question, now deal with it.
It's your belligerence which shuts the door to understanding.
Can you or can you not dispute that perfection is indeterminate?
Pontificating platitudes isn't a coherent argument.
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| User: "Gods Creator" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
05 Mar 2006 05:46:43 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:440A118F.54E134F1@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
........
......
Is that why Christ said in Matthew. 5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even
as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. How many "perfect aliens"
worthy of emulation do you know Libertine?
*Thus spake God's Creator*
There are no Aliens or Gods, these are ghosts things
stupid people create in order to try and understand the
unknown things... Thta way they can make these entities
Be, Say and Do anything they can imagine to be true. :-(
*It makes their thinking and reasoning _MUCH_ easier*
God's Creator!
( *All God's want money, slaves and virgins* )
:-)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Psstt.... Hey! ---> USED GODS SALE! : http://www.godchecker.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
05 Mar 2006 07:01:21 PM |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:440A118F.54E134F1@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
wbarwell wrote:
Pastor Frank wrote:
"wbarwell" <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:120hftee8v6j140@corp.supernews.com...
Josh wrote:
I'm not sure personally about calling the wholeness of the universe a
god.
'God' suggests authority or leadership, and the universe doesn't need
it. The universe, and all in it, simply exist. There is no purpose
for
the
universe, and no design. It just exists. We can see that it exists,
so
it
must exist. Researchers say that at one time it did not exist.
Fine.
Now
it does. Fine. One day it might not. Fine. Luckily, I existed for
a
moment and I saw it, and had sufficient self-awareness to be glad.
That's
all, really.
Regards, Josh
Paramenides stated that since something cannot come from
nothing, the Universe has always exsited and always will.
And it must be true. Modern cosmology has now realized
we are but one of an infinite island universes in an infinite
Universe.
Which I find rather nice. The ancient Greeks who followed
Paramenides as seeing an infinite Universe reasoned it
out correctly. The atomists, Leucippus and Democritus
were also partially right.
I know of no 'researchers' who say this Universe is all
that is. Paramenides long ago figured out there is always
something.
We see fields that fill this Universe that allow virtual
particles to come nad go in a perfect vacuum, the so called
vacuum energy.
Sometimes it can create entire new Universes within an aging
and old island Universe.
No need for gods.
Its not gods all the way down, not even turtles.
Its physics all the way down.
"Gods"are about ideals to pursue, that make one's life worth
living.
Without ideals people perish. You assume that existence is all there is
to
the Universe, but that leaves out the desire to exist meaningfully and
not
to self-destruct, that is inherent in all of nature. If anything I see
nature seeking to perfect itself rather then devolve into entropy.
Gods are not goals to persue, but but supposed, actually
existing beings.
===>"Gods" are the original "aliens" invented by human story tellers.
They belong with Cyclopses, Giants, Dragons, Unicorns, etc. in
the realm of fiction, same as Klingons, Martians, Tribbles,
Vulcans, Romulans, Borg, Pleiadeans, etc. -- L.
Is that why Christ said in Matthew. 5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even
as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
===>Sure.
The author of "Matthew" thought those lines would fit well his Iesous
character.
How many "perfect aliens"
worthy of emulation do you know Libertine?
===>I know of none.
But lots of stories have been written about such beings, called
"gods" or "angels" or "elohim" or "bni elohim", etc.
Strange that you have not discovered this in your "30 odd years" of
searching. -- L.
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Pastor Frank wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid440b5ee7$1$29591$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Libertarius" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth"><Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:440A118F.54E134F1@Nothing_But_The.Truth">news:440A118F.54E134F1@Nothing_But_The.Truth</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">wbarwell wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Pastor Frank wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"wbarwell" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com"><wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:120hftee8v6j140@corp.supernews.com">news:120hftee8v6j140@corp.supernews.com</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Josh wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I'm not sure personally about calling the wholeness of the universe a
god.
'God' suggests authority or leadership, and the universe doesn't need
it. The universe, and all in it, simply exist. There is no purpose
for
the
universe, and no design. It just exists. We can see that it exists,
so
it
must exist. Researchers say that at one time it did not exist.
Fine.
Now
it does. Fine. One day it might not. Fine. Luckily, I existed for
a
moment and I saw it, and had sufficient self-awareness to be glad.
That's
all, really.
Regards, Josh
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Paramenides stated that since something cannot come from
nothing, the Universe has always exsited and always will.
And it must be true. Modern cosmology has now realized
we are but one of an infinite island universes in an infinite
Universe.
Which I find rather nice. The ancient Greeks who followed
Paramenides as seeing an infinite Universe reasoned it
out correctly. The atomists, Leucippus and Democritus
were also partially right.
I know of no 'researchers' who say this Universe is all
that is. Paramenides long ago figured out there is always
something.
We see fields that fill this Universe that allow virtual
particles to come nad go in a perfect vacuum, the so called
vacuum energy.
Sometimes it can create entire new Universes within an aging
and old island Universe.
No need for gods.
Its not gods all the way down, not even turtles.
Its physics all the way down.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""> "Gods"are about ideals to pursue, that make one's life worth
living.
Without ideals people perish. You assume that existence is all there is
to
the Universe, but that leaves out the desire to exist meaningfully and
not
to self-destruct, that is inherent in all of nature. If anything I see
nature seeking to perfect itself rather then devolve into entropy.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Gods are not goals to persue, but but supposed, actually
existing beings.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">===>"Gods" are the original "aliens" invented by human story tellers.
They belong with Cyclopses, Giants, Dragons, Unicorns, etc. in
the realm of fiction, same as Klingons, Martians, Tribbles,
Vulcans, Romulans, Borg, Pleiadeans, etc. -- L.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----> Is that why Christ said in Matthew. 5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even
as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.</pre>
</blockquote>
===>Sure. <br>
The author of "Matthew" thought those lines would fit well his Iesous
character.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid440b5ee7$1$29591$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> How many "perfect aliens"
worthy of emulation do you know Libertine?
</pre>
</blockquote>
===>I know of none.<br>
But lots of stories have been written about such beings, called <br>
"gods" or "angels" or "elohim" or "bni elohim", etc. <br>
Strange that you have not discovered this in your "30 odd years" of
searching. -- L.<br>
</body>
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
03 Mar 2006 10:28:25 AM |
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Josh wrote:
I'm not sure personally about calling the wholeness of the universe a god.
'God' suggests authority or leadership, and the universe doesn't need it.
===>That is what the word "suggests" TO YOU.
But to many people it means "ultimate reality".
The universe, and all in it, simply exist. There is no purpose for the
universe, and no design. It just exists.
===>That was my point.
Spinoza and Einstein chose to define it as "GOD", so,
BY THAT DEFINITION, "GOD" does exist.
We can see that it exists, so it
must exist. Researchers say that at one time it did not exist.
===>True, some try to say that, but then they are compelled to
admit it must have always existed in some form. -- L.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
03 Mar 2006 10:24:42 AM |
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wbarwell wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Ther is only one definition of "GOD" that has a REAL referent,
and that is the one Albert Einstein called "Spinoza's God".
It is Nature, the Cosmic Totality of All Existence, not some
throne-sitting superman idol in the sky, as the one(s) in the Bible, nor
some emoticon like the "Love" idol of the Sheepherder Frank.
Not even the strongest "atheist" will deny that "Spinoza's
God" exists. -- L.
I do. The Universe as a whole, nature is not god,
===>You prefer not to call it by that name,
but you don't deny that it exists, do you? ;-) -- L.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
03 Mar 2006 04:11:25 PM |
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Libertarius wrote:
wbarwell wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Ther is only one definition of "GOD" that has a REAL referent,
and that is the one Albert Einstein called "Spinoza's God".
It is Nature, the Cosmic Totality of All Existence, not some
throne-sitting superman idol in the sky, as the one(s) in the Bible,
nor some emoticon like the "Love" idol of the Sheepherder Frank.
Not even the strongest "atheist" will deny that "Spinoza's
God" exists. -- L.
I do. The Universe as a whole, nature is not god,
===>You prefer not to call it by that name,
but you don't deny that it exists, do you? ;-) -- L.
If you call nature the Easter Bunny, then indeed the
Easter Bunny exists.
Is there an Easter Bunny shaped hole in your soul?
--
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about
God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did
not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?"
-Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
03 Mar 2006 07:42:00 PM |
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wbarwell wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
wbarwell wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Ther is only one definition of "GOD" that has a REAL referent,
and that is the one Albert Einstein called "Spinoza's God".
It is Nature, the Cosmic Totality of All Existence, not some
throne-sitting superman idol in the sky, as the one(s) in the Bible,
nor some emoticon like the "Love" idol of the Sheepherder Frank.
Not even the strongest "atheist" will deny that "Spinoza's
God" exists. -- L.
I do. The Universe as a whole, nature is not god,
===>You prefer not to call it by that name,
but you don't deny that it exists, do you? ;-) -- L.
If you call nature the Easter Bunny, then indeed the
Easter Bunny exists.
===>Well said! -- L.
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| User: "davey" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
02 Mar 2006 04:20:27 PM |
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Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 08:48:27 AM |
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"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
What's it to you?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "davey" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 02:51:31 PM |
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just curious.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
04 Mar 2006 03:49:22 AM |
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"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141419091.001122.205400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
just curious.
"Just curious" won't get you to an answer fast. Which God out of many,
is the right one for you depends on you doing some research in the world's
supermarket of ideas / ideals.
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
04 Mar 2006 03:16:25 PM |
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In article <4409810f$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>,
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141419091.001122.205400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
just curious.
"Just curious" won't get you to an answer fast. Which God out of many,
is the right one for you depends on you doing some research in the world's
supermarket of ideas / ideals.
unFrank allowing as to how there may be other god than his?
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
02 Mar 2006 07:58:19 PM |
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"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 01:18:03 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 06:28:13 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save lives
are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
04 Mar 2006 04:16:28 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save lives
are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how you
feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Turn to Christ and put yourself into His hands. You will be safe there
and you WILL have a life worth living.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
04 Mar 2006 12:41:11 PM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save
lives are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how you
feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Turn to Christ and put yourself into His hands. You will be safe there
and you WILL have a life worth living.
I find it interesting how you create and make up scenarios to suite your
beliefs rather than dealing in facts.
for your information and education:
I am 81 years of age and have been an atheist for about 65 of
those eighty years. I have promoted atheism for all of those years. I have
declared that god does not exist for all of those years.
I have had religious friends that have died and suffered painful illnesses
and death over these years.
I served for almost three years in the Army during W.W.II and saw many
highly religious types killed and wounded. I survived W.W.II without a
scratch. Why didn't god smite me for my atheism?
I lived a full, prosperous and enjoyable life, mostly free of diseases and
accidents. I have
flown thousands of hours as a pilot. I have driven many thousands of miles
by car.
Why did god not punish me in an accident?
About five years ago I had a heart attack. I've fully recovered from this.
Why did god not make it fatal or at least debilitating punishment?
A few years ago I suffered from a ruptured appendix. This is frequently
fatal. Why have I not been punished by death for my lack of belief in god?
I know why. I had an excellent and competent doctor that saved my life.
No god did it.
If god created heaven and earth and is all good, why does he permit TOTALLY
INNOCENT babies to be still born or born with serious and permanent
disabilities and permit non believers like me to live and prosper? Why does
he have some children born as geniuses, born to fabulous wealth and others
born idiots or born into grinding poverty and early death?
Where is there ANY objective evidence that believers live any longer
healthier, wealthier or enjoyable lives?
It would seem there is no real god to met out punishments and rewards.
The objective evidence is not that God created man but quite the contrary;
that man created Gods!
I hope that answers your silly questions.
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
05 Mar 2006 12:56:01 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:g8lOf.19598$Pv1.18969@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save
lives are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how
you feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Turn to Christ and put yourself into His hands. You will be safe there
and you WILL have a life worth living.
I find it interesting how you create and make up scenarios to suite your
beliefs rather than dealing in facts.
for your information and education:
I am 81 years of age and have been an atheist for about 65 of
those eighty years. I have promoted atheism for all of those years. I have
declared that god does not exist for all of those years.
I have had religious friends that have died and suffered painful illnesses
and death over these years.
I served for almost three years in the Army during W.W.II and saw many
highly religious types killed and wounded. I survived W.W.II without a
scratch. Why didn't god smite me for my atheism?
I lived a full, prosperous and enjoyable life, mostly free of diseases and
accidents. I have
flown thousands of hours as a pilot. I have driven many thousands of miles
by car.
Why did god not punish me in an accident?
About five years ago I had a heart attack. I've fully recovered from this.
Why did god not make it fatal or at least debilitating punishment?
A few years ago I suffered from a ruptured appendix. This is frequently
fatal. Why have I not been punished by death for my lack of belief in god?
I know why. I had an excellent and competent doctor that saved my life.
No god did it.
If god created heaven and earth and is all good, why does he permit
TOTALLY INNOCENT babies to be still born or born with serious and
permanent disabilities and permit non believers like me to live and
prosper? Why does he have some children born as geniuses, born to fabulous
wealth and others born idiots or born into grinding poverty and early
death?
Where is there ANY objective evidence that believers live any longer
healthier, wealthier or enjoyable lives?
It would seem there is no real god to met out punishments and rewards.
The objective evidence is not that God created man but quite the contrary;
that man created Gods!
I hope that answers your silly questions.
You are a classic case of arrested development, Bill. All these years
you never had a second look at that word "God" and just kept on trashing
something you didn't even know what it was.
I was an atheist like you most of my life, for I was brought up that
way. But I also met sane and well educated people who apparently firmly
believed in something they called "God", and were the happier for it. I
know, that from my atheist standpoint, all who believed in such a fantasy
should be at least a little unhinged, if not be total morons, or
"primitives" as Bob Young will have it, but certainly not "sane". It's just
statistically impossible, that sane people should believe all we atheists
disbelieve in.
Ergo, I did some research and studied nary every religion for which
could find the founding literature in the world's supermarket of ideas /
ideals. It took me 30 odd years, but then one day the words of Christ, whom
I admit I never quite understood, fell into place, and the glory of heaven
began to envelop me. It was a life-changing event and THAT spelled the end
of my atheist days.
There is more to all this that meets the eye Bill. Nothing is obvious.
Read Jesus below on the subject.
Pastor Frank
PARABLES
Matt 13:10: And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou
unto them in parables?
11: He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know
the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12: For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more
abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he
hath.
13: Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they looking see not;
and listening they hear not, neither do they understand.
14: And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By
listening ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and looking ye shall see,
and shall not perceive:
15: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of
hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see
with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their
heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mk:4:34: But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they
were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Mt:13:34-35: All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in
parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be
fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in
parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the
foundation of the world.
Pastor Frank
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
.
|
|
|
| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE? |
05 Mar 2006 02:07:49 PM |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pastor Frank wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:g8lOf.19598$Pv1.18969@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save
lives are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how
you feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Turn to Christ and put yourself into His hands. You will be safe there
and you WILL have a life worth living.
I find it interesting how you create and make up scenarios to suite your
beliefs rather than dealing in facts.
for your information and education:
I am 81 years of age and have been an atheist for about 65 of
those eighty years. I have promoted atheism for all of those years. I have
declared that god does not exist for all of those years.
I have had religious friends that have died and suffered painful illnesses
and death over these years.
I served for almost three years in the Army during W.W.II and saw many
highly religious types killed and wounded. I survived W.W.II without a
scratch. Why didn't god smite me for my atheism?
I lived a full, prosperous and enjoyable life, mostly free of diseases and
accidents. I have
flown thousands of hours as a pilot. I have driven many thousands of miles
by car.
Why did god not punish me in an accident?
About five years ago I had a heart attack. I've fully recovered from this.
Why did god not make it fatal or at least debilitating punishment?
A few years ago I suffered from a ruptured appendix. This is frequently
fatal. Why have I not been punished by death for my lack of belief in god?
I know why. I had an excellent and competent doctor that saved my life.
No god did it.
If god created heaven and earth and is all good, why does he permit
TOTALLY INNOCENT babies to be still born or born with serious and
permanent disabilities and permit non believers like me to live and
prosper? Why does he have some children born as geniuses, born to fabulous
wealth and others born idiots or born into grinding poverty and early
death?
Where is there ANY objective evidence that believers live any longer
healthier, wealthier or enjoyable lives?
It would seem there is no real god to met out punishments and rewards.
The objective evidence is not that God created man but quite the contrary;
that man created Gods!
I hope that answers your silly questions.
You are a classic case of arrested development, Bill. All these years
you never had a second look at that word "God" and just kept on trashing
something you didn't even know what it was.
I was an atheist like you most of my life, for I was brought up that
way.
===>So, in "all your life" you never really learned what "atheist" means!
But I also met sane and well educated people who apparently firmly
believed in something they called "God", and were the happier for it. I
know, that from my atheist standpoint, all who believed in such a fantasy
should be at least a little unhinged, if not be total morons, or
"primitives" as Bob Young will have it, but certainly not "sane".
===>Most likely.
It's just statistically impossible, that sane people should believe all we atheists
disbelieve in.
===>They don't believe ALL of "what atheists disbelieve in", since
not even all "athesist" disbelieve in everything other "atheists"
disbelieve in,
just like not all "theists" beileve in all of what "theists" believe in.
Define "atheist", if you can.
Are your ridiculous generalizations the result of your "30 odd years" of
searching?
Ergo, I did some research and studied nary every religion for which
could find the founding literature in the world's supermarket of ideas /
ideals. It took me 30 odd years, but then one day the words of Christ, whom
I admit I never quite understood, fell into place, and the glory of heaven
began to envelop me.
===>IOW, you went insane.
This is what happens when one spends decades trying to convince oneself
to believe
the unbelievable.
It was a life-changing event and THAT spelled the end
of my atheist days.
===>You only thought you had "atheist" days, just like
now you think you are a "pristine Christian".
How diid you end up as a neo-Marcionite? -- L.
--------------040600070501070200080901
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Pastor Frank wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid440ab820$0$17684$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Bill" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wmech@bellsouth.net"><wmech@bellsouth.net></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:g8lOf.19598$Pv1.18969@bignews6.bellsouth.net">news:g8lOf.19598$Pv1.18969@bignews6.bellsouth.net</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Pastor Frank" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:PF@christfirst.edu"><PF@christfirst.edu></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com">news:44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Bill" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wmech@bellsouth.net"><wmech@bellsouth.net></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net">news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Pastor Frank" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:PF@christfirst.edu"><PF@christfirst.edu></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com">news:4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Bill" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wmech@bellsouth.net"><wmech@bellsouth.net></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net">news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"davey" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davey2623@btinternet.com"><davey2623@btinternet.com></a> wrote in message
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com">news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""> To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save
lives are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""> You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how
you feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Turn to Christ and put yourself into His hands. You will be safe there
and you WILL have a life worth living.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I find it interesting how you create and make up scenarios to suite your
beliefs rather than dealing in facts.
for your information and education:
I am 81 years of age and have been an atheist for about 65 of
those eighty years. I have promoted atheism for all of those years. I have
declared that god does not exist for all of those years.
I have had religious friends that have died and suffered painful illnesses
and death over these years.
I served for almost three years in the Army during W.W.II and saw many
highly religious types killed and wounded. I survived W.W.II without a
scratch. Why didn't god smite me for my atheism?
I lived a full, prosperous and enjoyable life, mostly free of diseases and
accidents. I have
flown thousands of hours as a pilot. I have driven many thousands of miles
by car.
Why did god not punish me in an accident?
About five years ago I had a heart attack. I've fully recovered from this.
Why did god not make it fatal or at least debilitating punishment?
A few years ago I suffered from a ruptured appendix. This is frequently
fatal. Why have I not been punished by death for my lack of belief in god?
I know why. I had an excellent and competent doctor that saved my life.
No god did it.
If god created heaven and earth and is all good, why does he permit
TOTALLY INNOCENT babies to be still born or born with serious and
permanent disabilities and permit non believers like me to live and
prosper? Why does he have some children born as geniuses, born to fabulous
wealth and others born idiots or born into grinding poverty and early
death?
Where is there ANY objective evidence that believers live any longer
healthier, wealthier or enjoyable lives?
It would seem there is no real god to met out punishments and rewards.
The objective evidence is not that God created man but quite the contrary;
that man created Gods!
I hope that answers your silly questions.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----> You are a classic case of arrested development, Bill. All these years
you never had a second look at that word "God" and just kept on trashing
something you didn't even know what it was.
I was an atheist like you most of my life, for I was brought up that
way. </pre>
</blockquote>
===>So, in "all your life" you never really learned what "atheist"
means!<br>
<blockquote cite="mid440ab820$0$17684$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">But I also met sane and well educated people who apparently firmly
believed in something they called "God", and were the happier for it. I
know, that from my atheist standpoint, all who believed in such a fantasy
should be at least a little unhinged, if not be total morons, or
"primitives" as Bob Young will have it, but certainly not "sane". </pre>
</blockquote>
===>Most likely.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid440ab820$0$17684$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">It's just statistically impossible, that sane people should believe all we atheists
disbelieve in.
</pre>
</blockquote>
===>They don't believe ALL of "what atheists disbelieve in", since<br>
not even all "athesist" disbelieve in everything other "atheists"
disbelieve in,<br>
just like not all "theists" beileve in all of what "theists" believe in.<br>
<br>
Define "atheist", if you can.<br>
<br>
Are your ridiculous generalizations the result of your "30 odd years"
of searching?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid440ab820$0$17684$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Ergo, I did some research and studied nary every religion for which
could find the founding literature in the world's supermarket of ideas /
ideals. It took me 30 odd years, but then one day the words of Christ, whom
I admit I never quite understood, fell into place, and the glory of heaven
began to envelop me. </pre>
</blockquote>
===>IOW, you went insane.<br>
This is what happens when one spends decades trying to convince oneself
to believe<br>
the unbelievable.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid440ab820$0$17684$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">It was a life-changing event and THAT spelled the end
of my atheist days.
</pre>
</blockquote>
===>You only thought you had "atheist" days, just like<br>
now you think you are a "pristine Christian".<br>
How diid you end up as a neo-Marcionite? -- L.<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------040600070501070200080901--
.
|
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|
|
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|
| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
04 Mar 2006 03:18:47 PM |
|
|
In article <44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>,
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save lives
are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how you
feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Many people have lives worth living without gods to worship. Among them
are many of those life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and
others that save lives, who do so without the crutch of religion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
04 Mar 2006 03:27:05 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:18:47 -0700, in alt.atheism
Virgil <ITSnetNOTcom#virgil@COMCAST.com> wrote in
<ITSnetNOTcom#virgil-3ADA11.14184704032006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>:
In article <44098113$0$17703$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>,
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C75Of.5467$f6.4491@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
Life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and others that save lives
are not necessarilly religious.
Helping others is not a religious trait but a human one.
You miss the point again, Bill. It's whether you have a life worth
living, that is the question, and the problem. Religion deals with how you
feel about things. I.e. perceptions, qualities.
Many people have lives worth living without gods to worship. Among them
are many of those life guards, doctors, police, ambulance drivers and
others that save lives, who do so without the crutch of religion.
Even worse, what makes our lives worth living if the only point is to
kowtow to a god that is totally irrational?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
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| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 06:02:11 PM |
|
|
In article <4408a569$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>,
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fmNNf.1381$fF6.853@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141338027.769406.303780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
peace
davey
To save poor people from dumb idiots like you!
To save people is a religious sentiment. Are you religious?
To wish to save people from making mistakes is a moral sentiment.
Are you moral?
.
|
|
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| User: "davey" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 02:50:25 PM |
|
|
Sir, you know me not. Easy is it to blindly curse, harder to answer a
simple question.
So why do you berate god/z that you supposedly don't believe in, into
the internet ether in such great depth?
Just curious.
peace
davey
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 02:56:52 PM |
|
|
On 3 Mar 2006 12:50:25 -0800, "davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Sir, you know me not. Easy is it to blindly curse, harder to answer a
simple question.
So why do you berate god/z that you supposedly don't believe in, into
the internet ether in such great depth?
Idiot.
Just curious.
peace
davey
.
|
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| User: "davey" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
03 Mar 2006 03:07:46 PM |
|
|
You are obviously so superior in the intellect department I couldn't
possibly give you a witty reply. So all I can manage is a thoroughly
resounding raspberry. Enjoy!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
06 Mar 2006 10:13:35 AM |
|
|
"davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1141420066.756550.71850@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
You are obviously so superior in the intellect department I couldn't
possibly give you a witty reply. So all I can manage is a thoroughly
resounding raspberry. Enjoy!
Um, who are you talking to?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
|
|
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|
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
02 Mar 2006 04:25:44 PM |
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On 2 Mar 2006 14:20:27 -0800, "davey" <davey2623@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Why do you spend so much time and effort berating a god you don't
believe in?
Why do you lie about atheists on an atheist newsgroup?
If you morons kept it to yourself there would be no reaction.
peace
When you assholes learn to live and let live.
davey
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| User: "davey" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
02 Mar 2006 04:33:23 PM |
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Lie?
Reaction?
Que?
peace
davey
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
02 Mar 2006 04:06:45 PM |
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With regards to suffering ( the viciousness of predators and disease,
etc), these things are all an outgrowth of evolution. You mention the
nasty things it has brought. But evolution has also brought good
things. It's a trade-off. I think one can have both evolution and
God. So recognizing evolution, doesn't mean de-recognizing God.
Needing to prove himself or communicate, would be vanity. If God is
egoless, then he doesn't get anything out of proving himself.
There's no way to know which if any of the religions is correct. There
is no scientific evidence for any of them.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH GOD IS THE REAL ONE |
02 Mar 2006 04:26:32 PM |
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wrote:
With regards to suffering ( the viciousness of predators and disease,
etc), these things are all an outgrowth of evolution. You mention the
nasty things it has brought. But evolution has also brought good
things. It's a trade-off. I think one can have both evolution and
God.
Evolution completely contradicts Genesis. You can't have evolution and
"God" unless you're willing to perform an elaborate set of mental
gymnastics.
So recognizing evolution, doesn't mean de-recognizing God.
It should. The is if I understand the word "de-recognizing."
Needing to prove himself or communicate, would be vanity. If God is
egoless, then he doesn't get anything out of proving himself.
The converse is also true, he doesn't get anything out of not proving
himself either, if he has no ego. That's just way too convenient an
argument for theists. If "God" existed it should get it's sorry ***** out
here so the theist lunatics will stop killing each other and putting us
ALL in danger.
There's no way to know which if any of the religions is correct. There
is no scientific evidence for any of them.
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