| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
17 Nov 2005 02:08:34 PM |
| Object: |
WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
Considering the thousands of different religious and god beliefs how do we
know which , if any, is real?
Just the MAJOR world religions;
Christianity
Confucianism
Baha'i
Buddhism
Mormonism
Islam
Hinduism
Judaism
Sikhism
Taoism
Zoroastrianism
Major sacred texts and documents;
Baha'i Sacred writings
Life of Buddha - Dhammapada - Pali cannon
The Bible - Christian religious documents - 18 English versions
The Book of Mormon - Church of Latter Day Saints
The Analects - Confucianism
The Eddas and Sagas - Icelandic beliefs
Wicca - Neo paganism of Greece and Rome
Bhagavgita and Rig Veda - Hinduism
Qur'an - Islam
The Tanakh - Jewism
Tao-Te-Ching - Taoism
Nag Hammadi - Gnostics
Zhuan Falun - Falun Gong
Then there also is the ancient atheist book of quatrains; The Rubaiyat by
Omar Khayyam.
And hundreds of variations on the beliefs in all these religions.
These are just the major religions. There are many more minor religions.
Additionally all have dozens and hundreds of different beliefs and factions
within their primary religion..
Of all these different Gods and belief systems which is the true one, if
any, and which are fakes? None of these documents are objective evidence.
They are all documents written, copied, recopied and modified by errant men
over the centuries. There is no way to establish authenticity or accuracy.
The objective evidence is that they are just a mixture of history, myth,
folklore and legends.
Of the BILLIONS of people on this earth, none have VERIFIABLY heard from any
of these gods or from any of their dead relatives or friends. There are a
relatively few that CLAIM they have heard from THEIR god but these are
likely just the imaginings of neurotic believers and religious fakers.
The objective evidence is that man was not created by gods but quite the
opposite; that man created the gods.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 07:35:49 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > What about stillborn children? Do they have god to thank for
their
: > : > "long
: > : > : > lives"? What about those born with serious medical conditions
that
: > : > will
: > : > : > cause them to die very young. Are they "blessed" as well?
: > : > :
: > : > : No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect
world.
: > : >
: > : > Do you have objective, verifiable support for that assertion?
: > : >
: > :
: > : No. Do you have any objective verifyable evidence that this is false?
: >
: > You made the claim. Therefore the vurden of proof is on you!
:
: Wrong! You are the one who calls my claim a lie, so the burden of proof
is
: on you, Mr. Prosecutor.
You are such a liar! I did not call your claim a lie. I merely don't have
enough evidence to conclude that it is fact. We have been through this
before.
: > : Now, do you want to have a logical debate or do you wish to continue
: > playing
: > : games?
: >
: > You don't know what a logical debate is!
:
: I am honored that I have reduced you to infantile bickering.
You are the one doing the infantile bickering. I ask you to support a claim
and you say that I claimed you lied. All I did is say that you have not
supported your claim enough for it to be concluded as fact.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 07:52:51 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:DvGdneKGN_4QHOPenZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
You are the one doing the infantile bickering. I ask you to support a
claim
and you say that I claimed you lied. All I did is say that you have not
supported your claim enough for it to be concluded as fact.
No, you're trolling by asking for "proof" of Adam and Eve's existance. That
is infantile bickering because you already know that this "proof" cannot be
attained. You know this too.
That is the game you are playing.
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 07:57:33 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > You are the one doing the infantile bickering. I ask you to support a
: > claim
: > and you say that I claimed you lied. All I did is say that you have not
: > supported your claim enough for it to be concluded as fact.
:
: No, you're trolling by asking for "proof" of Adam and Eve's existance.
Liar! I didn't as for "proof" of anything!
: That
: is infantile bickering because you already know that this "proof" cannot
be
: attained.
Again, I didn't ask for "proof" of anything. I ask you to support your claim
with objective evidence. If you cannot do so, it is merely a baseless claim
on your part and you should not expect anyone to believe it as fact.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 08:07:39 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:Ru6dnSoWkq47G-PenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com...
Again, I didn't ask for "proof" of anything. I ask you to support your
claim
with objective evidence.
LOL!
If you cannot do so, it is merely a baseless claim
on your part and you should not expect anyone to believe it as fact.
So?
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 08:11:54 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > Again, I didn't ask for "proof" of anything. I ask you to support your
: > claim
: > with objective evidence.
:
: LOL!
I don't see anything funny.
: If you cannot do so, it is merely a baseless claim
: > on your part and you should not expect anyone to believe it as fact.
:
: So?
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 08:18:14 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:iY-dnfrrPvaeF-PenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > Again, I didn't ask for "proof" of anything. I ask you to support your
: > claim
: > with objective evidence.
:
: LOL!
I don't see anything funny.
I believe it.
: If you cannot do so, it is merely a baseless claim
: > on your part and you should not expect anyone to believe it as fact.
:
: So?
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
In the hopes that someone will.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 08:25:44 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
:
: In the hopes that someone will.
Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable evidence.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 09:35:08 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:B_WdnUfnMOjeEOPenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
: > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
:
: In the hopes that someone will.
Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable evidence.
Then why do so many believe?
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 09:48:42 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > : > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
: > :
: > : In the hopes that someone will.
: >
: > Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable evidence.
:
: Then why do so many believe?
Unfortunately, they don't require objective, verifiable evidence.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 09:52:18 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:tNmdnSfOVZ4uPePenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
: > : > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
: > :
: > : In the hopes that someone will.
: >
: > Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable evidence.
:
: Then why do so many believe?
Unfortunately, they don't require objective, verifiable evidence.
That is correct.
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 10:00:49 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
: > : > :
: > : > : In the hopes that someone will.
: > : >
: > : > Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable
evidence.
: > :
: > : Then why do so many believe?
: >
: > Unfortunately, they don't require objective, verifiable evidence.
:
: That is correct.
So you agree that it is unfortunate?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 10:05:56 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:Zr-dnWMvBccUPuPeRVn-vg@comcast.com...
: > : > : > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
: > : > :
: > : > : In the hopes that someone will.
: > : >
: > : > Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable
evidence.
: > :
: > : Then why do so many believe?
: >
: > Unfortunately, they don't require objective, verifiable evidence.
:
: That is correct.
So you agree that it is unfortunate?
Unfortunate for the people who won't believe anything unless they see it
with their own eyes.
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 10:18:28 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > : > : > : > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
: > : > : > :
: > : > : > : In the hopes that someone will.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable
: > evidence.
: > : > :
: > : > : Then why do so many believe?
: > : >
: > : > Unfortunately, they don't require objective, verifiable evidence.
: > :
: > : That is correct.
: >
: > So you agree that it is unfortunate?
:
: Unfortunate for the people who won't believe anything unless they see it
: with their own eyes.
That isn't what you said, "That is correct.", to.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "Walking on Glass" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 05:06:39 AM |
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And lo, it came to pass that did attempt to escape
burning at the stake, by proclaiming in alt.atheism:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:B_WdnUfnMOjeEOPenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
: > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
:
: In the hopes that someone will.
Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable evidence.
Then why do so many believe?
Because it is far easier to believe than reason about things objectively.
People are lazy.
--
Stuart AA #2053
Atheism means one less impossible thing to believe before breakfast.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 08:14:23 AM |
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"Walking on Glass" <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97137111D7D83walkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157...
And lo, it came to pass that did attempt to escape
burning at the stake, by proclaiming in alt.atheism:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:B_WdnUfnMOjeEOPenZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
: > So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
:
: In the hopes that someone will.
Not unless the claim is supported with objective, verifiable evidence.
Then why do so many believe?
Because it is far easier to believe than reason about things objectively.
People are lazy.
Yes. It's the basic scientific law: "If it cannot be seen, felt or
measured, it's not there."
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 08:41:37 PM |
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In article <nXvff.27067$0l5.18884@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:iY-dnfrrPvaeF-PenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > Again, I didn't ask for "proof" of anything. I ask you to support your
: > claim
: > with objective evidence.
:
: LOL!
I don't see anything funny.
I believe it.
: If you cannot do so, it is merely a baseless claim
: > on your part and you should not expect anyone to believe it as fact.
:
: So?
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
In the hopes that someone will.
Why do you care?
Why isn't your own belief enough to satisfy you?
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 09:37:03 PM |
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"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-D78E9B.21413718112005@news.giganews.com...
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
In the hopes that someone will.
Why do you care?
Because Christians care.
Why isn't your own belief enough to satisfy you?
Because I'm not self-centered.
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 08:37:59 AM |
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In article <k5xff.27403$0l5.18457@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-D78E9B.21413718112005@news.giganews.com...
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
In the hopes that someone will.
Why do you care?
Because Christians care.
No, I asked why *you* care. You already proved earlier that you're mean
and malevolent. Now all of a sudden you care?
Why isn't your own belief enough to satisfy you?
Because I'm not self-centered.
You're attempting to sway others from the spiritual paths they have
chosen for themselves under the assumption that they are wrong and only
you have it right.
That's pretty much the definition of self-centered and egotistical.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 09:17:31 AM |
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"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-C63ACD.09375919112005@news.giganews.com...
In article <k5xff.27403$0l5.18457@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-D78E9B.21413718112005@news.giganews.com...
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
In the hopes that someone will.
Why do you care?
Because Christians care.
No, I asked why *you* care. You already proved earlier that you're mean
and malevolent. Now all of a sudden you care?
Oh well if you're going to sit there and accuse me of being mean and
malevolent, why should I bother answering any of your questions?
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 10:54:37 AM |
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In article <1mHff.33866$0l5.29175@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-C63ACD.09375919112005@news.giganews.com...
In article <k5xff.27403$0l5.18457@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-D78E9B.21413718112005@news.giganews.com...
So, why bother making the claim in the first place?
In the hopes that someone will.
Why do you care?
Because Christians care.
No, I asked why *you* care. You already proved earlier that you're mean
and malevolent. Now all of a sudden you care?
Oh well if you're going to sit there and accuse me of being mean and
malevolent, why should I bother answering any of your questions?
I'm not accusing you. You "accused" yourself.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 11:31:07 AM |
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"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-68FBA1.11543719112005@news.giganews.com...
No, I asked why *you* care. You already proved earlier that you're mean
and malevolent. Now all of a sudden you care?
Oh well if you're going to sit there and accuse me of being mean and
malevolent, why should I bother answering any of your questions?
I'm not accusing you. You "accused" yourself.
That sounds like an accusation.
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 03:50:23 PM |
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In article <ejJff.35167$0l5.23539@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-68FBA1.11543719112005@news.giganews.com...
No, I asked why *you* care. You already proved earlier that you're mean
and malevolent. Now all of a sudden you care?
Oh well if you're going to sit there and accuse me of being mean and
malevolent, why should I bother answering any of your questions?
I'm not accusing you. You "accused" yourself.
That sounds like an accusation.
Maybe to a 5-year-old it would, sure.
.
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| User: "Walking on Glass" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 04:37:57 AM |
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And lo, it came to pass that did attempt to
escape burning at the stake, by proclaiming in alt.atheism:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:DvGdneKGN_4QHOPenZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
You are the one doing the infantile bickering. I ask you to support a
claim
and you say that I claimed you lied. All I did is say that you have
not supported your claim enough for it to be concluded as fact.
No, you're trolling by asking for "proof" of Adam and Eve's existance.
That is infantile bickering because you already know that this
"proof" cannot be attained. You know this too.
So you cannot prove Adam and Eve exist(ed), and your response to me:
"No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect world."
(in Message-ID: <qXuff.27051$0l5.8643@dukeread06>) is nothing but your own
subjective opinion. Thank you for admitting it.
--
Stuart AA #2053
Atheism means one less impossible thing to believe before breakfast.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 08:13:32 AM |
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"Walking on Glass" <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97136C34AD8FFwalkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157...
So you cannot prove Adam and Eve exist(ed), and your response to me:
"No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect world."
I cannot prove they existed, you cannot prove they did not exist. You know
this, yet you continue to go that route. Thankyou for proving my earlier
point.
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 10:08:43 AM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Walking on Glass" wrote
: > So you cannot prove Adam and Eve exist(ed), and your response to me:
: >
: > "No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect world."
:
: I cannot prove they existed, you cannot prove they did not exist. You
know
: this, yet you continue to go that route.
Unsupported assertions from the bible do not belong on alt.atheism.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 11:06:11 AM |
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In article <0qGff.33331$0l5.15192@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Walking on Glass" <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97136C34AD8FFwalkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157...
So you cannot prove Adam and Eve exist(ed), and your response to me:
"No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect world."
I cannot prove they existed, you cannot prove they did not exist.
You can't prove that invisible three-horned hippos don't float above
everyone's heads protecting them from harm.
So do these "guardian hippos" exist until you can prove otherwise? Is it
a valid approach to worship the Great Hippo and create a religion around
it until its existence can be disproven?
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| User: "Hannele Huigens" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 03:05:26 PM |
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Op Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:13:32 +0100 schreef Bill Gamelson
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com>:
"Walking on Glass" <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97136C34AD8FFwalkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157...
So you cannot prove Adam and Eve exist(ed), and your response to me:
"No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect world."
I cannot prove they existed, you cannot prove they did not exist. You
know
this, yet you continue to go that route. Thankyou for proving my earlier
point.
You actually made a point somewhere?
--
Hannele
aa #2221
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
19 Nov 2005 03:06:23 PM |
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"Hannele Huigens" <Hannele@lycos.nl> wrote in message
news:op.s0h97cfxvjeuhq@laptophannele...
Op Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:13:32 +0100 schreef Bill Gamelson
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com>:
"Walking on Glass" <walking_on_glass@hotmailNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97136C34AD8FFwalkingonglasshotmai@195.92.193.157...
So you cannot prove Adam and Eve exist(ed), and your response to me:
"No, they have Adam and Eve to thank for screwing up a perfect world."
I cannot prove they existed, you cannot prove they did not exist. You
know
this, yet you continue to go that route. Thankyou for proving my earlier
point.
You actually made a point somewhere?
How much thought went into that brilliant comment?
.
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| User: "BTR1701" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 08:40:18 PM |
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In article <Czvff.27058$0l5.16295@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:DvGdneKGN_4QHOPenZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
You are the one doing the infantile bickering. I ask you to support a
claim
and you say that I claimed you lied. All I did is say that you have not
supported your claim enough for it to be concluded as fact.
No, you're trolling by asking for "proof" of Adam and Eve's existance. That
is infantile bickering because you already know that this "proof" cannot be
attained.
Well, if even something as simple as their existence can't be proven
then it's a pretty baseless story and rests firmly in the category of
mythology.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: WHICH IS THE REAL GOD??? |
18 Nov 2005 09:35:56 PM |
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"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-243A00.21401818112005@news.giganews.com...
No, you're trolling by asking for "proof" of Adam and Eve's existance.
That
is infantile bickering because you already know that this "proof" cannot
be
attained.
Well, if even something as simple as their existence can't be proven
then it's a pretty baseless story and rests firmly in the category of
mythology.
Ok.
.
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