| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Whood Unit" |
| Date: |
18 Feb 2004 05:58:25 PM |
| Object: |
Who Killed Jesus? |
Every time they have something int he news about Mel gibson's Passion
movie they always say some thing like "jews are worried this is going
to make people think they killed jesus".
well DUH isn't that because they did kill him???
If the jews didn't kill Jesus I would like to know who did!
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS -- ABRAHAMISM |
25 Feb 2004 11:06:23 AM |
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JGB wrote:
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message news:<40365341.5FC84754@Nothing_But_The.Truth>...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:1sha30pqgukli12sh8j3e415akpnu053v7@4ax.com...
The Jews forced Pilate into that position.
Which is impossible, givein the historical facts.
The High Priest was under the power of Pilate, not the other way around.
===>Most people have never lived in an occupied country ruled by the
foreign occupiers, as e.g. France in WW2, Eastern Europe under Soviet
rule, etc., and of course they don't study history, so they cannot
understand
what you are saying. The Jerusalem leadership were the lackeys of the
Roman Empire. Also, the founder of Christianity, a self-professed ROMAN
CITIZEN Saul/Paul, was an agent of the Romans! Note how, in
his letter (Romans 13) he threatens anyone who would resist the authority
of Rome. He adopted Jesus as the embodiment of his divine "Christos", but
accused the Jews for killing him. (SEE 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15)
"the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets,
and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men"
And Christianity was founded on such DISHONEST CLAIMS! -- L.<
I don't know why these European became "Christians" anyway. JEws get
along well with Hindus, Buddhists and Zoroastrians, and other "pagans"
so why didn't these Europeans stick to their native deity pantheons?
===>Because their then supreme ruler, Emperor of the Roman Empire,
Constantine believed he can keep the Empire together if there was only one
religion, so he declared Christianity as the official faith of the Empire.
Jews mainly have problems from those of the other "Abrahamic" faiths.
JEws were never persecuted by Persian Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists,
or even pagan Arabs before the coming of Muhammad. THey took our land,
then our God, and then our lives. Who needed it?
===>"Abrahamism" is the violent religion of the Near East, inherited from
the ever-warring Canaanite and Mesopotamian tribes, each of which had its
own "God" -- BAAL, CHEMOSH, YHWH, etc. -- L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
21 Feb 2004 08:32:42 AM |
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On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:34:41 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:1sha30pqgukli12sh8j3e415akpnu053v7@4ax.com...
The Jews forced Pilate into that position.
Which is impossible, givein the historical facts.
The High Priest was under the power of Pilate, not the other way around.
===>Most people have never lived in an occupied country ruled by the
foreign occupiers, as e.g. France in WW2, Eastern Europe under Soviet
rule, etc., and of course they don't study history, so they cannot
understand
what you are saying. The Jerusalem leadership were the lackeys of the
Roman Empire. Also, the founder of Christianity, a self-professed ROMAN
CITIZEN Saul/Paul, was an agent of the Romans! Note how, in
his letter (Romans 13) he threatens anyone who would resist the authority
of Rome. He adopted Jesus as the embodiment of his divine "Christos", but
accused the Jews for killing him. (SEE 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15)
"the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets,
and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men"
And Christianity was founded on such DISHONEST CLAIMS! -- L.
Sin killed Jesus. All Christians know that.
If God had chosen to become man in Peru in 1922, then it still would have been
sin that killed Jesus.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
21 Feb 2004 12:03:27 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:34:41 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam-draymond@minister.com> wrote in message
news:1sha30pqgukli12sh8j3e415akpnu053v7@4ax.com...
The Jews forced Pilate into that position.
Which is impossible, givein the historical facts.
The High Priest was under the power of Pilate, not the other way around.
===>Most people have never lived in an occupied country ruled by the
foreign occupiers, as e.g. France in WW2, Eastern Europe under Soviet
rule, etc., and of course they don't study history, so they cannot
understand
what you are saying. The Jerusalem leadership were the lackeys of the
Roman Empire. Also, the founder of Christianity, a self-professed ROMAN
CITIZEN Saul/Paul, was an agent of the Romans! Note how, in
his letter (Romans 13) he threatens anyone who would resist the authority
of Rome. He adopted Jesus as the embodiment of his divine "Christos", but
accused the Jews for killing him. (SEE 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15)
"the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets,
and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men"
And Christianity was founded on such DISHONEST CLAIMS! -- L.
Sin killed Jesus. All Christians know that.
===>and they are all WRONG!
"Sin" is not a person.
Only a person can kill another person.
Jesus was found guilty of sedition by the Roman authorities
and, as Romans 13 states, he received a deserved punishment. -- L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
22 Feb 2004 07:31:01 AM |
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On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:03:27 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Sin killed Jesus. All Christians know that.
===>and they are all WRONG!
"Sin" is not a person.
Only a person can kill another person.
Jesus was found guilty of sedition by the Roman authorities
and, as Romans 13 states, he received a deserved punishment. -- L.
Yet God didn't become man to die on the cross at the hands of Roman soldiers.
He came to redeem us from sin. The Romans accused him of sedition. The Jews
started it by accusing him of blasphemy. But sin killed Jesus.
I'm not surprised you don't know that, libbie.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
22 Feb 2004 11:29:23 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:03:27 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Sin killed Jesus. All Christians know that.
===>and they are all WRONG!
"Sin" is not a person.
Only a person can kill another person.
Jesus was found guilty of sedition by the Roman authorities
and, as Romans 13 states, he received a deserved punishment. -- L.
Yet God didn't become man to die on the cross at the hands of Roman soldiers.
===>No "God" has ever "become man".
That is just an ancient Pagan myth concept, similar to
the idea of "shapeshifters" in modern science fiction.
He came to redeem us from sin.
===>Who came? Not a "God"!
Jesus was a fellow from Galilee who was deified by
the Christos Cult when they identified him with their
Pagan savior god.
The Romans accused him of sedition.
===>The story says he ADMITTED to the claim he was
"king"!
The Jews started it by accusing him of blasphemy.
===>What "blasphemy"???
There is absolutely NOTHING quoted in the Gospels
that could qualify as "blasphemy".
The "blasphemy" is the claim that YHWH impregnated
a virgin to produce a man destined for human sacrifice!
But sin killed Jesus.
===>"Sin" does not kill anyone.
I'm not surprised you don't know that, libbie.
===>No one "knows that".
It is just your silly ASSertion.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
22 Feb 2004 04:26:20 PM |
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:29:23 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>No "God" has ever "become man".
Sorry, libby, but you're in over your head now.
He came to redeem us from sin.
===>Who came? Not a "God"!
Jesus was a fellow from Galilee who was deified by
the Christos Cult when they identified him with their
Pagan savior god.
Yeah, sure little know-nothing. Now you're sticking your thumb up your rectum
and pulling "things" out.
The Romans accused him of sedition.
===>The story says he ADMITTED to the claim he was
"king"!
The "story" says. Where, libbie, where?
The Jews started it by accusing him of blasphemy.
===>What "blasphemy"???
There is absolutely NOTHING quoted in the Gospels
Wow!!!!!!!
John 18
29So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against
this man?"
30"If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over
to you."
31Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law."
That's what it was, libby - blasphemy. I mean - you do believe it was
blasphemy, don't you libbie?
that could qualify as "blasphemy".
The "blasphemy" is the claim that YHWH impregnated
a virgin to produce a man destined for human sacrifice!
Matthew 26
59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence
against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any,
though many false witnesses came forward.
61Finally two came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to
destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer?
What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
Wake up, libbie, you're out of our league now.
But sin killed Jesus.
===>"Sin" does not kill anyone.
I'm not surprised you don't know that, libbie.
===>No one "knows that".
It is just your silly ASSertion.
Everybody but YOU knows that, libbie.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
22 Feb 2004 08:08:44 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:29:23 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>No "God" has ever "become man".
Sorry, libby, but you're in over your head now.
===>Meaning what, Silly Boy?
He came to redeem us from sin.
===>Who came? Not a "God"!
Jesus was a fellow from Galilee who was deified by
the Christos Cult when they identified him with their
Pagan savior god.
Yeah, sure little know-nothing. Now you're sticking your thumb up your rectum
and pulling "things" out.
===>One of those "things" would be YOU!
The Romans accused him of sedition.
===>The story says he ADMITTED to the claim he was
"king"!
The "story" says. Where, libbie, where?
===>Matthew 27:11
Now Jesus stood before the governor,
and the governor questioned Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."
Mark 15:2
Pilate questioned Him,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And He answered him, "It is as you say."
Luke 23:3
So Pilate asked Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And He answered him and said, "It is as you say."
John 18:37
Therefore Pilate said to Him,
"So You are a king?"
Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king.
For this I have been born,
and for this I have come into the world"
The Jews started it by accusing him of blasphemy.
===>What "blasphemy"???
There is absolutely NOTHING quoted in the Gospels
Wow!!!!!!!
John 18
29So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against
this man?"
30"If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over
to you."
31Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law."
That's what it was, libby - blasphemy.
===>WHAT "blasphemy"???
You have not found any, have you?
I mean - you do believe it was
blasphemy, don't you libbie?
===>For "blasphemy" they did not need Pilate to execute Jesus!
But the charges were POLITICAL SUBVERSION, not "blasphemy"!
that could qualify as "blasphemy".
The "blasphemy" is the claim that YHWH impregnated
a virgin to produce a man destined for human sacrifice!
Matthew 26
59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence
against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any,
though many false witnesses came forward.
61Finally two came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to
destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer?
What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
===>WHAT "blasphemy"???
There is NONE QUOTED!
Had there been any "blasphemy", the High Priest had the authority
to execute anyone!
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
23 Feb 2004 05:30:02 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:08:44 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Sorry, libby, but you're in over your head now.
===>Meaning what, Silly Boy?
You can read, your lack comprehension.
Yeah, sure little know-nothing. Now you're sticking your thumb up your rectum
and pulling "things" out.
===>One of those "things" would be YOU!
The Romans accused him of sedition.
===>The story says he ADMITTED to the claim he was
"king"!
The "story" says. Where, libbie, where?
===>Matthew 27:11
Now Jesus stood before the governor,
and the governor questioned Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."
The St. Jerome bible says:
Matthew 27
11 "so you say"
Mark 15:2
Pilate questioned Him,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And He answered him, "It is as you say."
The St. Jerome bible says:
Mark 15:2
"so you say".
Luke 23:3
So Pilate asked Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And He answered him and said, "It is as you say."
The St Jerome bible says:
Luke 23:3
"so you say".
John 18:37
Therefore Pilate said to Him,
"So You are a king?"
Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king.
For this I have been born,
and for this I have come into the world"
The St Jerome bible says:
John 18:37
"You say that I ma king. I was born and came into this world; if my kingdom
belonged to this world, my followers would fightto keep me from being handed
over to the Jewish authorities. No, my kingdom does not belong here."
The Jews started it by accusing him of blasphemy.
===>What "blasphemy"???
There is absolutely NOTHING quoted in the Gospels
Wow!!!!!!!
John 18
29So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against
this man?"
30"If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over
to you."
31Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law."
That's what it was, libby - blasphemy.
===>WHAT "blasphemy"???
You have not found any, have you?
I mean - you do believe it was
blasphemy, don't you libbie?
===>For "blasphemy" they did not need Pilate to execute Jesus!
But the charges were POLITICAL SUBVERSION, not "blasphemy"!
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy. They turned him
in to the romans hoping they would take care of the sordid affair. Pilate sent
him back. Pilate said "take him back and judge him by your own laws".
that could qualify as "blasphemy".
The "blasphemy" is the claim that YHWH impregnated
a virgin to produce a man destined for human sacrifice!
Matthew 26
59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence
against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any,
though many false witnesses came forward.
61Finally two came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to
destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer?
What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
===>WHAT "blasphemy"???
There is NONE QUOTED!
Had there been any "blasphemy", the High Priest had the authority
to execute anyone!
You really really don't understand, do you. Something must be tatooed on your
forehead for you to understand.
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something only God could
do. He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
You're looking in the mirror, libbie.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
23 Feb 2004 07:12:16 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:08:44 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Sorry, libby, but you're in over your head now.
===>Meaning what, Silly Boy?
You can read, your lack comprehension.
Yeah, sure little know-nothing. Now you're sticking your thumb up your rectum
and pulling "things" out.
===>One of those "things" would be YOU!
The Romans accused him of sedition.
===>The story says he ADMITTED to the claim he was
"king"!
The "story" says. Where, libbie, where?
===>Matthew 27:11
Now Jesus stood before the governor,
and the governor questioned Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."
The St. Jerome bible says:
Matthew 27
11 "so you say"
===>SAME MEANING.
Mark 15:2
Pilate questioned Him,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And He answered him, "It is as you say."
The St. Jerome bible says:
Mark 15:2
"so you say".
===>SAME MEANING.
Luke 23:3
So Pilate asked Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And He answered him and said, "It is as you say."
The St Jerome bible says:
Luke 23:3
"so you say".
===>SAME MEANING.
John 18:37
Therefore Pilate said to Him,
"So You are a king?"
Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king.
For this I have been born,
and for this I have come into the world"
The St Jerome bible says:
John 18:37
"You say that I ma king. I was born and came into this world; if my kingdom
belonged to this world, my followers would fightto keep me from being handed
over to the Jewish authorities. No, my kingdom does not belong here."\
===>St. Jerome did not speak English.
The Jews started it by accusing him of blasphemy.
===>What "blasphemy"???
There is absolutely NOTHING quoted in the Gospels
Wow!!!!!!!
John 18
29So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against
this man?"
30"If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over
to you."
31Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law."
That's what it was, libby - blasphemy.
===>WHAT "blasphemy"???
You have not found any, have you?
I mean - you do believe it was
blasphemy, don't you libbie?
===>For "blasphemy" they did not need Pilate to execute Jesus!
But the charges were POLITICAL SUBVERSION, not "blasphemy"!
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy.
===>Of course they could. And they did, e.g. in the story of Stephen,
also in the case of James, the brother of Jesus.
They turned him
in to the romans hoping they would take care of the sordid affair. Pilate sent
him back. Pilate said "take him back and judge him by your own laws".
that could qualify as "blasphemy".
The "blasphemy" is the claim that YHWH impregnated
a virgin to produce a man destined for human sacrifice!
Matthew 26
59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence
against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any,
though many false witnesses came forward.
61Finally two came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to
destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer?
What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
===>WHAT "blasphemy"???
There is NONE QUOTED!
Had there been any "blasphemy", the High Priest had the authority
to execute anyone!
You really really don't understand, do you. Something must be tatooed on your
forehead for you to understand.
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something only God could
do.
===>Really? How about the Babylonians?
How about the Romans?
He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
===>In NONE of the stories did he "declared himself God".
YOU LIE, trying to prove your ignorant belief.
I REPEAT:
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
24 Feb 2004 05:52:32 PM |
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:12:16 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Matthew 27:11
Now Jesus stood before the governor,
and the governor questioned Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."
The St. Jerome bible says:
Matthew 27
11 "so you say"
===>SAME MEANING.
Nope.
===>St. Jerome did not speak English.
Neither did Jesus.
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy.
===>Of course they could. And they did, e.g. in the story of Stephen,
also in the case of James, the brother of Jesus.
Jesus wasn't Stephen.
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something only God could
do.
===>Really? How about the Babylonians?
How about the Romans?
Rebuild it in 3 days? Don't be foolish.
He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
===>In NONE of the stories did he "declared himself God".
YOU LIE, trying to prove your ignorant belief.
Right, they were trying to accuse him of declaring himself to be God. Don't you
get it yet?
I REPEAT:
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
And between you and me, I'm the one that understands the bible.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
24 Feb 2004 07:02:33 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:12:16 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>Matthew 27:11
Now Jesus stood before the governor,
and the governor questioned Him, saying,
"Are You the King of the Jews?"
And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."
The St. Jerome bible says:
Matthew 27
11 "so you say"
===>SAME MEANING.
Nope.
===>St. Jerome did not speak English.
Neither did Jesus.
===>So, why do you quote Jerome in English???
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy.
===>Of course they could. And they did, e.g. in the story of Stephen,
also in the case of James, the brother of Jesus.
Jesus wasn't Stephen.
===>WOW! What an astute observation!
What made you realize that????
However, Stephen WAS executed for "blasphemy", and the
Jewish authorities were certainly entitled to carry out executions
on RELIGIOUS grounds.
(Have you ever read the "cast the first stone" episode?)
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something only God could
do.
===>Really? How about the Babylonians?
How about the Romans?
Rebuild it in 3 days? Don't be foolish.
===>Don't be stupid!
It was not the "rebuilding" that was at issue.
He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
===>In NONE of the stories did he "declared himself God".
YOU LIE, trying to prove your ignorant belief.
Right, they were trying to accuse him of declaring himself to be God. Don't you
get it yet?
===>No, they did not.
NOWHERE do you read that!
I REPEAT:
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
And between you and me, I'm the one that understands the bible.
===>That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
26 Feb 2004 05:11:37 AM |
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On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:02:33 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>So, why do you quote Jerome in English???
None of the bible was in English.
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy.
===>Of course they could. And they did, e.g. in the story of Stephen,
also in the case of James, the brother of Jesus.
Jesus wasn't Stephen.
===>WOW! What an astute observation!
What made you realize that?
However, Stephen WAS executed for "blasphemy", and the
Jewish authorities were certainly entitled to carry out executions
on RELIGIOUS grounds.
(Have you ever read the "cast the first stone" episode?)
He didn't command the attention Jesus did.
You sound like you took a course on reading the bible and what "things" are in
it, but nothing of comprehension.
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something only God could
do.
===>Really? How about the Babylonians?
How about the Romans?
Rebuild it in 3 days? Don't be foolish.
===>Don't be stupid!
It was not the "rebuilding" that was at issue.
Oh??????
He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
===>In NONE of the stories did he "declared himself God".
YOU LIE, trying to prove your ignorant belief.
Right, they were trying to accuse him of declaring himself to be God. Don't you
get it yet?
===>No, they did not.
NOWHERE do you read that!
You mean where Jesus made the bold statement "I am God"!!!!!! No, he never said
it in those words.
I REPEAT:
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
And between you and me, I'm the one that understands the bible.
===>That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
26 Feb 2004 09:22:23 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:02:33 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>So, why do you quote Jerome in English???
None of the bible was in English.
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy.
===>Of course they could. And they did, e.g. in the story of Stephen,
also in the case of James, the brother of Jesus.
Jesus wasn't Stephen.
===>WOW! What an astute observation!
What made you realize that?
However, Stephen WAS executed for "blasphemy", and the
Jewish authorities were certainly entitled to carry out executions
on RELIGIOUS grounds.
(Have you ever read the "cast the first stone" episode?)
He didn't command the attention Jesus did.
===>How do you know that?
You sound like you took a course on reading the bible and what "things" are in
it, but nothing of comprehension.
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something only God could
do.
===>Really? How about the Babylonians?
How about the Romans?
Rebuild it in 3 days? Don't be foolish.
===>Don't be stupid!
It was not the "rebuilding" that was at issue.
Oh??????
He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
===>In NONE of the stories did he "declared himself God".
YOU LIE, trying to prove your ignorant belief.
Right, they were trying to accuse him of declaring himself to be God. Don't you
get it yet?
===>No, they did not.
NOWHERE do you read that!
You mean where Jesus made the bold statement "I am God"!!!!!! No, he never said
it in those words.
===>WOW! One honest statement out of you!
There may still be hope for you yet!
I REPEAT:
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
And between you and me, I'm the one that understands the bible.
===>That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
===>"Duke" the parrot!
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| User: "joseph irvin" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
01 Apr 2004 01:17:18 PM |
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"Lina Morgan" <yajairasmom979@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ea6b60l3rrk61sd2l8nn8blbknrbd0u5fn@netscape.net...
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
duke wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:02:33 -0700, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
===>So, why do you quote Jerome in English???
None of the bible was in English.
No, no libbie. The Jews couldn't touch him for his blasphemy.
===>Of course they could. And they did, e.g. in the story of
Stephen,
also in the case of James, the brother of Jesus.
Jesus wasn't Stephen.
===>WOW! What an astute observation!
What made you realize that?
However, Stephen WAS executed for "blasphemy", and the
Jewish authorities were certainly entitled to carry out executions
on RELIGIOUS grounds.
(Have you ever read the "cast the first stone" episode?)
He didn't command the attention Jesus did.
===>How do you know that?
You sound like you took a course on reading the bible and what "things"
are in
it, but nothing of comprehension.
Destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days is something
only God could
do.
===>Really? How about the Babylonians?
How about the Romans?
Rebuild it in 3 days? Don't be foolish.
===>Don't be stupid!
It was not the "rebuilding" that was at issue.
Oh??????
He was accused of declaring himself God. Don't you get it yet?
===>In NONE of the stories did he "declared himself God".
YOU LIE, trying to prove your ignorant belief.
Right, they were trying to accuse him of declaring himself to be
God. Don't you
get it yet?
===>No, they did not.
NOWHERE do you read that!
You mean where Jesus made the bold statement "I am God"!!!!!! No, he
never said
it in those words.
===>WOW! One honest statement out of you!
There may still be hope for you yet!
I REPEAT:
Your ignorance is COLOSSAL!
And between you and me, I'm the one that understands the bible.
===>That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
That is your problem. You mistakenly THINK you do.
===>"Duke" the parrot!
If anyone still says the jews didn't kill Jesus they are either lying
or they work in one of the jew-controlled megamedia companies.
"Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the
people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus,
whom you anointed. They did what your power and will had decided beforehand
should happen." Acts IV 27-28
"Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though
the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and
prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand."
Isaiah LIII - 10
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| User: "Michael Morrell" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
31 Mar 2004 09:59:41 PM |
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Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung on a tree,
the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals too?
michael
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| User: "Lina Morgan" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
03 Apr 2004 09:08:53 AM |
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Michael Morrell <mgm@mnmtek.com> wrote:
Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung on a tree,
the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals too?
michael
More jewish apologetics. You people are masters of that game.
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| User: "L Alpert" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
03 Apr 2004 10:48:47 AM |
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Lina Morgan wrote:
Michael Morrell <mgm@mnmtek.com> wrote:
Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung
on a tree, the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals
too?
michael
More jewish apologetics. You people are masters of that game.
So says another master of whining.
Typical goy woman.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
03 Apr 2004 10:20:47 PM |
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"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:PVBbc.175235$po.983517@attbi_s52...
Lina Morgan wrote:
Michael Morrell <mgm@mnmtek.com> wrote:
Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung
on a tree, the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals
too?
michael
More jewish apologetics. You people are masters of that game.
So says another master of whining.
Typical goy woman.
You know she's not smart enough to decipher sarcasm!!
Susan
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| User: "L Alpert" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 10:52:08 AM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:PVBbc.175235$po.983517@attbi_s52...
Lina Morgan wrote:
Michael Morrell <mgm@mnmtek.com> wrote:
Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung
on a tree, the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals
too?
michael
More jewish apologetics. You people are masters of that game.
So says another master of whining.
Typical goy woman.
You know she's not smart enough to decipher sarcasm!!
Susan
Yes, there are so few of us!
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
03 Apr 2004 01:16:14 PM |
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Lina Morgan wrote:
Michael Morrell <mgm@mnmtek.com> wrote:
Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung on a tree,
the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals too?
michael
More jewish apologetics. You people are masters of that game.
===>You are obviously ignorant of the history of Christian
apologetics.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
03 Apr 2004 10:21:46 PM |
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"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:406F0D7E.CF27AD5@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
Lina Morgan wrote:
Michael Morrell <mgm@mnmtek.com> wrote:
Although the Jews demanded of the Roman power, that Christ be hung on a
tree,
the Romans killed him.
They also killed the others there with him, two criminals.
Do people believe that Jews got up there and killed the criminals too?
michael
More jewish apologetics. You people are masters of that game.
===>You are obviously ignorant of the history of Christian
apologetics.
Oh, please - more than that!!
Susan
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 01:23:15 AM |
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In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does indeed
accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed out the
irrationality of those accusations. Now I would like to inquire
as to why the accusations were made.
A clue can be found in 1 Corinthians 11, where Paul describes his
escape from Damascus:
2 Corinthians 11:
11:32 In Damascus, the governor under King Aretas
was guarding the city of Damascus in order to
arrest me, 11:33 but I was let down in a rope-basket
through a window in the city wall, and escaped his
hands.
The same event is described in Acts with a major difference:
Acts
9:23 Now after some days had passed, the Jews
plotted together to kill him, 9:24 but Saul learned of
their plot against him. They were also watching the
city gates day and night so that they could kill him.
9:25 But his disciples took him at night and let him
down through an opening in the wall by lowering
him in a basket.
Instead of saying that Aretes wanted to arrest Paul, Luke says
that it was Jews who wanted to kill Paul.
Which version of the story is correct? It would be difficult to
justify accepting Luke's version in preference to Paul's because
Paul's version is older and first hand. Besides, immediately
before that statement Paul declares, "The God and Father of the
Lord Jesus, who is blessed forever, knows I am not lying." (2
Cor. 11:31.)
Dating when 2 Corinthians was written does present some problems,
but it is generally estemated to have been around 54 or 55 c.e.
Even if written later, it is widely agreed that Paul's letters
were written before the gospels. Most scholars date the writing
of the synoptics between 65 and 70 c.e. The period of the Jewish
wars.
The close relationship between Christianity and Judaism made the
lowalty of Christians suspect. Where did their loyalty belong?
With Rome? or with the Jews? Besides preserving Christian
traditions, the gospels and book of Acts served to separate
Christianity from Judaism by blaming Jews, and showing that Jews
were just as much the enemy of Christians, as they were the enemy
of Rome. Of course that required altering the facts.
--
Wax
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| User: "L Alpert" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 10:53:04 AM |
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Weatherwax wrote:
In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does indeed
accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed out the
Please cite a corroborating source.
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 02:11:03 PM |
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"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AbWbc.67624$gA5.825994@attbi_s03...
Weatherwax wrote:
In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does
indeed accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed
out the
Please cite a corroborating source.
Why do you ask me? Posters who hate Jews have been citing
numerous passages in which the Jews are blamed for the death of
Jesus.
In Matthew 27:11-25 Pilate is portrayed as believing Jesus to be
innocent but gives in to a crowd which shouts "Let his blood be
on us and on our children!" The entire passage looks bogus, and
the crowd would have shouted "Let his blood be upon him," not
themselves. How do you blame the people for the actions of a
few? And how can you blame the children for the actions of their
parents?
In Acts 2:23, Peter tells a crowd of "Israelite men" that they
killed Jesus.
In 1 Thessalonians 2, the Jews are accused not only of killing
Christ, but of killing the prophets and persecuting Christians:
1 Thessalonians
2:14 For you became imitators, brothers and sisters,
of God's churches in Christ Jesus that are in Judea,
because you too suffered the same things from your
own countrymen as they in fact did from the Jews, 2:15
who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets
and persecuted us severely.16 They are displeasing
to God and are opposed to all people, 2:16 because
they hinder us from speaking to the Gentiles so that
they may be saved. Thus they constantly fill up their
measure of sins, but wrath has come upon them
completely.
--
Wax
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 02:29:14 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:11:03 GMT, "Weatherwax"
<weatherwax@worldnet.net> wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AbWbc.67624$gA5.825994@attbi_s03...
Weatherwax wrote:
In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does
indeed accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed
out the
Please cite a corroborating source.
Why do you ask me? Posters who hate Jews have been citing
numerous passages in which the Jews are blamed for the death of
Jesus.
In Matthew 27:11-25 Pilate is portrayed as believing Jesus to be
innocent but gives in to a crowd which shouts "Let his blood be
on us and on our children!" The entire passage looks bogus, and
the crowd would have shouted "Let his blood be upon him," not
themselves. How do you blame the people for the actions of a
few? And how can you blame the children for the actions of their
parents?
That's one of the things used to justify two millenia of
anti-semitism.
In Acts 2:23, Peter tells a crowd of "Israelite men" that they
killed Jesus.
In 1 Thessalonians 2, the Jews are accused not only of killing
Christ, but of killing the prophets and persecuting Christians:
1 Thessalonians
2:14 For you became imitators, brothers and sisters,
of God's churches in Christ Jesus that are in Judea,
because you too suffered the same things from your
own countrymen as they in fact did from the Jews, 2:15
who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets
and persecuted us severely.16 They are displeasing
to God and are opposed to all people, 2:16 because
they hinder us from speaking to the Gentiles so that
they may be saved. Thus they constantly fill up their
measure of sins, but wrath has come upon them
completely.
There's nothing better than a common enemy to unite people. So their
leaders invented a "them" to make enemes of.
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| User: "Weatherwax" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
05 Apr 2004 01:30:36 AM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
There's nothing better than a common enemy to unite
people. So their leaders invented a "them" to make enemes
of.
I agree. If an evangelist preached love, nobody would listen.
But if that evangelist accused Jews of killing children, and
sprinkling the blood over wafers, then the people unite in fear
behind the preacher.
Antisemitism has served Christianity well for many years. But
ethnic and religious smears are no longer acceptable. Even
against Moslems. Communism is no longer a "godless threat".
The current enemy is homosexuals, but most people no longer
accept the accusation that homosexuals "recruit" children. Now
evangelists have created the fear that gay marriages will destroy
the sanctity of family and marriage.
--
Wax
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
05 Apr 2004 10:56:46 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 06:30:36 GMT, "Weatherwax"
<weatherwax@worldnet.net>, Message ID:
<g27cc.37888$He5.732976@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> wrote in
alt.atheism;
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
There's nothing better than a common enemy to unite
people. So their leaders invented a "them" to make enemes
of.
I agree. If an evangelist preached love, nobody would listen.
And yet, the malevolence is portrayed as a superstition of 'love.'
But if that evangelist accused Jews of killing children, and
sprinkling the blood over wafers, then the people unite in fear
behind the preacher.
But, if the preacher were to be eliminated the fear would vanish.
Antisemitism has served Christianity well for many years. But
ethnic and religious smears are no longer acceptable. Even
against Moslems. Communism is no longer a "godless threat".
Christianity remains the prime threat. "Astonishing" how that threat
doesn't get addressed.
The current enemy is homosexuals, but most people no longer
accept the accusation that homosexuals "recruit" children.
Priests do that.
Now
evangelists have created the fear that gay marriages will destroy
the sanctity of family and marriage.
Christians destroyed that long ago.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "L Alpert" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 05:32:53 PM |
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Weatherwax wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AbWbc.67624$gA5.825994@attbi_s03...
Weatherwax wrote:
In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does
indeed accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed
out the
Please cite a corroborating source.
Why do you ask me? Posters who hate Jews have been citing
numerous passages in which the Jews are blamed for the death of
Jesus.
The problem is the "author" or "authors" of this book called the bible are
not even known and have published no other works along the same lines.
It matters not who was "responsible" or blamed for the death of the man
known as Jesus. In the overall scheme of things, he would have been dead in
another 30 years or so anyway (if he was lucky), which is not even a spit in
the proverbial bucket.
It makes little difference now if he has been dead for 2K years or 1.97K
years......
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 04:10:28 PM |
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"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AbWbc.67624$gA5.825994@attbi_s03...
Weatherwax wrote:
In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does indeed
accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed out the
Please cite a corroborating source.
(Weatherwax said that the Bible accuses, not that the Jews actaully did it.
The rest of the post goes on to say where the accusation might have come
from....)
Susan
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| User: "L Alpert" |
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| Title: Re: Who Killed Jesus? DISHONEST CLAIMS |
04 Apr 2004 05:33:50 PM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AbWbc.67624$gA5.825994@attbi_s03...
Weatherwax wrote:
In previous posts I had pointed out that the Bible does indeed
accuse the Jews of killing Jesus. I also pointed out the
Please cite a corroborating source.
(Weatherwax said that the Bible accuses, not that the Jews actaully
did it. The rest of the post goes on to say where the accusation
might have come from....)
Susan
Conjecture. Nothing more. Who knows if the author was bised.
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