| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Lucas J. Riesau" |
| Date: |
14 Jul 2007 12:16:10 PM |
| Object: |
Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim. Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 03:09:19 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are defending their religions.
You kind used to burn my kind at the stake, and would do so again given a
chance. I'm seeing to it that you don't get a chance.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"With soap, baptism is a good thing."
-Robert G. Ingersoll 1833-1899
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 03:35:41 PM |
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On Jul 14, 4:09 pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...@trashmail.net> wrote:
"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sph...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are defending their religions.
You kind used to burn my kind at the stake, and would do so again given a
chance. I'm seeing to it that you don't get a chance.
Amen, brother. No kid of mine is going in one of those camps.
-PF, Atl.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 01:09:05 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are
For me you are an idiot.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 01:39:47 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
For one, too many theists are hell-bent on imposing their preposterous views
on everyone and their dog and cats. Second, we are strenuously and severely
maligned for simply not believing crazy stories that just SCREAM of the
absurd. And notice you said 'defending'. We are not the ones on 'offense'
(until rather recently). If the theists would just quit their never-ending
efforts to turn our brains into Jello, the world would be a better place.
The theists can't even admit that there is even the slightest *possibility*
that they *could* be wrong regarding their belief-system. When you start off
with the position that it's impossible for you to be even the slightest bit
wrong -- where do you go from there?
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism.
An 'idol'? Isn't that what many a Christian worships in defiance of the
first two commandments? What 'graven image' do we atheists bow down to? What
atheist 'prayers' are you familiar with? Aren't you just being a big bag of
cow gas here?
Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
Really? And what 'prophet' do we cite from our book of 'holy scripture'? Can
you locate an atheist 'rosary' for me? Could you get me a museum-quality
print of Non-Existent 'God' -- perhaps one painted by Carravaggio or
Titian -- while you're looking for that 'religious' atheist rosary?
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim.
And if someone says that there really is a 'God', the atheist will attack
them *just* like a Christian or Muslim. Right?
Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Nawww. That would be too religious for those of us atheists who aren't the
least bit religious. But now if you want to change the definition of 'white'
to 'black' and vice-versa, you may have a point if you change the definition
of 'Jihad'. Make it a non-religious or non-religion affilitated event and
we're good to go!
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so.
Just like a 'square' being a 'circle', right? According to your logic, both
geometric figures are exactly the same. (Now where am I going to put that
brand new square-round table when Daniel J. Miron finally gets around to
paying for it?)
It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!!
You mean that 'god' called atheism' that doesn't exist?!!! The one that
doesn't even exist in man's imagination -- due to the fact that 'he' or
'she' is so non-existent that it makes 'make-believe' pale in comparison?
You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
And *you* are just blustering away with nothing to back it up. Feel better
now? Proud of yourself? Need another swig of Jack Daniels to calm your
nerves?
Greywolf
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 01:44:02 AM |
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Greywolf wrote:
"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
For one, too many theists are hell-bent on imposing their preposterous views
on everyone and their dog and cats. Second, we are strenuously and severely
maligned for simply not believing crazy stories that just SCREAM of the
absurd. And notice you said 'defending'. We are not the ones on 'offense'
(until rather recently). If the theists would just quit their never-ending
efforts to turn our brains into Jello, the world would be a better place.
The theists can't even admit that there is even the slightest *possibility*
that they *could* be wrong regarding their belief-system. When you start off
with the position that it's impossible for you to be even the slightest bit
wrong -- where do you go from there?
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism.
An 'idol'? Isn't that what many a Christian worships in defiance of the
first two commandments? What 'graven image' do we atheists bow down to? What
atheist 'prayers' are you familiar with? Aren't you just being a big bag of
cow gas here?
Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
Really? And what 'prophet' do we cite from our book of 'holy scripture'? Can
you locate an atheist 'rosary' for me? Could you get me a museum-quality
print of Non-Existent 'God' -- perhaps one painted by Carravaggio or
Titian -- while you're looking for that 'religious' atheist rosary?
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim.
And if someone says that there really is a 'God', the atheist will attack
them *just* like a Christian or Muslim. Right?
Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Nawww. That would be too religious for those of us atheists who aren't the
least bit religious. But now if you want to change the definition of 'white'
to 'black' and vice-versa, you may have a point if you change the definition
of 'Jihad'. Make it a non-religious or non-religion affilitated event and
we're good to go!
Islamists have their Jihad -[holy war] because they are terrified of Infidels
[anyone that does not follow their imaginary god] so in the near future, when
they get their nuclear devices, they will aim them at Christian countries and
millions will die
.........in the name of imaginary gods - don't talk to me about atheism, it is
indeed a breath of fresh air, but the chances of atheism getting a large
majority of humanity to think like sane individuals is not very likely, given
man's penchant for superstition.
Of course it is nothing new, we have been killing the other 'believers' as far
back as records go
Isiah ch xxxvii vol 36
Then the angel of the Lord went forth, and smote the camp of the Assyrians a
hundred and fourscore and five thousand; and *when they arose in the morning,
behold, they were all dead corpses*
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so.
Just like a 'square' being a 'circle', right? According to your logic, both
geometric figures are exactly the same. (Now where am I going to put that
brand new square-round table when Daniel J. Miron finally gets around to
paying for it?)
It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!!
You mean that 'god' called atheism' that doesn't exist?!!! The one that
doesn't even exist in man's imagination -- due to the fact that 'he' or
'she' is so non-existent that it makes 'make-believe' pale in comparison?
You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
And *you* are just blustering away with nothing to back it up. Feel better
now? Proud of yourself? Need another swig of Jack Daniels to calm your
nerves?
Greywolf
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 12:48:33 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
So what? *****, moron.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?RORyRmzka2Vu?=" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 08:18:18 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
Why shouldn't they?
Snip same old BS.......
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| User: "Jeckyl" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 08:37:00 AM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are defending their religions.
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods .. there is nothing that needs
defending.
But we do point out the inconsistencies and logical falws in the arguments
of theists who try to convince others that their gods exist
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement religion for you
atheism is not a religion .. it is a lack of one
That you cannot conceive of someone NOT having a religion is just your own
limitation
and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing in an idol called atheism.
Atheism isn't an idol .. its not worshipped.
Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any Christian or Muslim out there.
And that false conclusion somehow makes you belief in false gods justified?
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim. Funny. I suppose
you'd even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Typical theist nonsense
Atheism - the new religion?
new .. ahteism is the older than any religion
It seems so. It's human nature to believe in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!!
You people are religious!!!
And you're a completel idiot. But we already knew that .. you're a theist.
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 01:21:58 AM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are defending their religions.
No - we are zealously defending our right to BE atheists - against fantical,
morally and mentally corrupt, religous morons.
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| User: "Pt. Lurk Pt." |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 03:20:39 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1184433370.419088.4620@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
[snip]
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
*I love it* when the religious try and use the idea of 'being religious' as
*an insult*!
It just shows how desperately screwed-up they are!!
LOL!!!
L.
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| User: "NC" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 08:14:32 PM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sphere@yahoo.com> wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are defending their religions.
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement religion for you and you have just replaced believing in
GOD by believing in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are
as religious as any Christian or Muslim out there.
So you're saying having religious belief is bad. That actually makes a
lot of sense. Religion is quite terrible when you think about it. Yes,
your words have been very enlightening to me.
*throws bible in garbage*
Now I won't replace it with anything. I will have absolutely no
religious belief of any kind. All because of you. Thank you for saving
me from religion! Bye-bye!
*walks off into the sunshine, whistling merrily*
NC
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 08:24:30 PM |
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NC wrote:
So you're saying having religious belief is bad. That actually makes a
lot of sense. Religion is quite terrible when you think about it. Yes,
your words have been very enlightening to me.
*throws bible in garbage*
Now I won't replace it with anything. I will have absolutely no
religious belief of any kind. All because of you. Thank you for saving
me from religion! Bye-bye!
*walks off into the sunshine, whistling merrily*
Whistling is definitely better for you than religion!
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 01:36:01 AM |
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"Lucas J. Riesau" wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
That's simply what you would like to think.
Atheists use their intelligence and feelings like everyone else and this
shows them that
man loves to make up gods to control others, and frankly we do not
subscribe to this in the year 2007.
other opinions
The whole conception of God is a conception derived from the ancient
Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men. When
you hear people in church debasing themselves and saying that they are
miserable sinners, and all the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not
worthy of self-respecting human beings. We ought to stand up and look
the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the
world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be
better than what these others have made of it in all these ages. A good
world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a
regretful hankering after the past, or a fettering of the free
intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men. [Danilow
Merkovi]
"I have something to say to the religionist who feels atheists never say
anything positive: You are an intelligent human being. Your life is
valuable for its own sake. You are not second-class in the universe,
deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind. You are not
inherently evil--you are inherently human, possessing the positive
rational potential to help make this a world of morality, peace and joy.
Trust yourself."
[Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith]
"The atheist does not say "there is no God," he says "I know not what
you mean by God; I am without idea of God; the word 'God' is to me a
sound conveying no clear or distinct affirmation. ... The Bible God I
deny; the Christian God I disbelieve in; but I am not rash enough to say
there is no God as long as you tell me you are unprepared to define God
to me.""
[Charles Bradlaugh, "Plea for Atheism"]
Bob
Humanist Brit.
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim. Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 01:11:51 PM |
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Lucas J. Riesau wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any
theists are defending their religions.
And for you that would be correct. For anyone that uses their
brain instead of replaces it with mush, you would be wrong.
--
Dave
"Sacred cows make the best hamburger." Mark Twain.
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| User: "BuddyThunder" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 05:48:43 PM |
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Lucas J. Riesau wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
I'll also strongly defend the idea that the earth orbits the sun; I
believe it with every fibre of my being. This does not make me
religious. There's good evidence for my belief. There's no evidence for
belief in gods.
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim. Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Sometimes it's fun to take the p*ss, especially when someone is so
incoherent that linear argument is unnecessary/impossible. In many other
cases the issue is not that someone doubts our "belief", but that they
spray unreasoned, arrogant, bigoted bile around unbidden and are then
shocked when they aren't welcomed with open arms.
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
<smirk>, nice logic, godboy.
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 12:04:00 PM |
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Lucas J. Riesau wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists are defending their religions.
Is there any legitimate reason for us to not defend our lack of belief
in the face of overwhelming theist prejudice? Is there any legitimate
reason for us to not point out that there is no objective, verifiable
evidence to support any claim of deity?
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any Christian or Muslim out there.
No, rejecting your religious beliefs is not a religious belief.
Although maybe you think Jews are Xians because they reject the
divinity of jeebus.
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim.
Nope. We say, "Why should we believe you? Why should we be forced to
live our lives on the basis of your religion? Do you have any
objective, verifiable evidence for any of your claims, or are we just
supposed to accept what you say is true because you tell us it's true?
Funny.
I can think of something funnier. It has something to do with
"atheism is something like a replacement religion."
I suppose you'd even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Why would you suppose that?
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so.
Only to people who think "everybody has to believe in something" means
"everybody has to have religious belief."
It's human nature to believe in something.
Which has nothing to do with deities. Or did you mean to say "It's
human nature to believe in deities"?
Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!!
The problem with that is that atheism is a LACK of theism. 'A'
meaning without, 'theism' meaning belief in deity.
You people are religious!!! q.e.d.
Here's a helpful concept: is not collecting stamps a hobby? If not,
then why is not believing in deities a religion?
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 12:25:49 AM |
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Lucas J. Riesensau:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
The keyword here, of course, is "defend".
If there weren't constant attacks by hordes of braindead morontheists
against everything and everyone they think is atheistic in any way,
atheists wouldn't have to defend their constitutional rights.
All atheists I know would happily live their lifes alongside theists of any
kind as long as the theists don't bother them and let them (dis)believe
what they want. And, to be fair, in many parts of the world, the majority of
theists does let them live like they want.
It's the morontheists who can't stand anything around them that reminds them
of how crappy their doctrine is.
Case closed.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "Aerik" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
31 Jul 2007 02:40:52 PM |
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Newsflash: Zealousness has never been defined by mere ardency. OMG,
he's confident and backs up his views with reasoned evidence and
doesn't sell out his integrity by bending to the fallacy that all
sides are equal, call the generals, make a counter attack,
aaieeeeeee!!!!
Spare me.
Unlike fundies/evangelical Christians and Muslims, Atheists do not go
"believe as I do *or else.* "
We're not literally militant like religionists are.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
01 Aug 2007 12:26:02 AM |
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Aerik wrote:
Newsflash: Zealousness has never been defined by mere ardency. OMG,
he's confident and backs up his views with reasoned evidence and
doesn't sell out his integrity by bending to the fallacy that all
sides are equal, call the generals, make a counter attack,
aaieeeeeee!!!!
Spare me.
Unlike fundies/evangelical Christians and Muslims, Atheists do not go
"believe as I do *or else.* "
We're not literally militant like religionists are.
True, we tend to be logical
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
02 Aug 2007 06:29:05 PM |
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On Aug 1, 1:26?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
Aerik wrote:
Newsflash: Zealousness has never been defined by mere ardency. OMG,
he's confident and backs up his views with reasoned evidence and
doesn't sell out his integrity by bending to the fallacy that all
sides are equal, call the generals, make a counter attack,
aaieeeeeee!!!!
Spare me.
Unlike fundies/evangelical Christians and Muslims, Atheists do not go
"believe as I do *or else.* "
We're not literally militant like religionists are.
True, we tend to be logical
Logic is fine, but logic only goes so far.
Even though the atheist worship logic like a god...atheists still do
illogical things in their lives.
A flourishing and peaceful life take more than logic.
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
02 Aug 2007 11:41:01 PM |
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V wrote:
On Aug 1, 1:26?am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
Aerik wrote:
Newsflash: Zealousness has never been defined by mere ardency. OMG,
he's confident and backs up his views with reasoned evidence and
doesn't sell out his integrity by bending to the fallacy that all
sides are equal, call the generals, make a counter attack,
aaieeeeeee!!!!
Spare me.
Unlike fundies/evangelical Christians and Muslims, Atheists do not go
"believe as I do *or else.* "
We're not literally militant like religionists are.
True, we tend to be logical
Logic is fine, but logic only goes so far.
Even though the atheist worship logic like a god...atheists still do
illogical things in their lives.
A flourishing and peaceful life take more than logic.
Take care,
Point missed, it is not we that uses logic, it is religionists who refuse to
use it,
not going 'so far' they are not prepared to go a single inch!
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "David Schwartz" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
18 Jul 2007 04:00:41 AM |
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On Jul 14, 10:16 am, "Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim. Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Typical theist! Everything matters but the truth. It doesn't matter
whether the claims of religion are true or false.
Doesn't it make any difference to you whether the claims theists make
are in fact true or in fact false? Does the truth fall *anywhere* on
your radar screen?
DS
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 11:19:28 PM |
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On Jul 14, 12:16 pm, "Lucas J. Riesau" <ion_sph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
For me you atheists are as zealously defending atheism as any theists
are
defending their religions.
Therefore my conclusion is that atheism is something like a
replacement
religion for you and you have just replaced believing in GOD by
believing
in an idol called atheism. Sorry folks, but you are as religious as
any
Christian or Muslim out there.
Whenever someone doubts your "belief" in atheism, you'll attack that
person - just like a Christian, just like a muslim. Funny. I suppose
you'd
even start your own Jihad for your atheism.
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point, but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one. Both believe their core assumptions. Both have faith
in their core assumptions.(They still share some common beliefs,
however. For example, both believe that ketchup is the yummiest
condiment available to mankind. And that you shouldn't go near any
large dragon when you have any ketchup with you, for as it goes
"Beware in the presence of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good
with ketchup.")
However, these assumptions cannot be proven. Each must decide for
himself. The existence of God cannot be proved, unless He appears for
a news broadcasting. But according to the Bible, it is not within
God's nature to do such a thing.(unless you read near the end, at the
end of the world He will do something of the sort according to
Revelations)
At the same time, the existence of God cannot be disproved. If He is
all powerful(which most text concerning Him describes him to be), then
He can simply choose not to show himself to mankind at all.
Which brings me to my conclusion: "Crap! Then how are we supposed to
know what to believe?". Well, you have to decide. I already know where
my money is placed, if not only because it is a win-win situation.(If
you have questions regarding this, please feel free to email me.)
And to finish my post, I would like to refute some parts of the posts
of Lucas, panamfl@hotmail.com, Enkidu, Pt. Lurk and anyone else who
made large generalizations. Just because there have been people who
claimed to be Christian and who at some point massacred large numbers
of people does not mean you can judge any other person who shares that
one belief.
The same applies to Atheists. Just because there have been people who
claimed to be Atheist and who at some point massacred large numbers of
people does not mean you can judge any other person who shares that
one belief.(This is a logical truth, small samples covering only one
variable do not apply to large samples with many variables. To believe
such would be illogical.)
Let us all hope we have made the correct assumptions.
Sincerely,
Samuel B. Hatch
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
14 Jul 2007 11:55:35 PM |
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<samuelbhatch@gmail.com> wrote in
snip
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point, but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one.
Wrong.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 08:50:05 AM |
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wrote:
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point
As only a theist who can only see things from a credulist's persective can.
but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
Hmmm...not really. That is a prediction based on firm historical
observations. If you think that is the same kind of belief as religious
faith, then all I can say is thank Jove you're not a scientist.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
If I started floating in midair, I would lose my "faith" in gravity. If my
stove suddenly started freezing my soup, I would lose my "faith" in
thermodynamics. Fortunately, none of these things have anything to do with
faith. They are based on reason, the antithesis of faith.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one.
Who told you that? It's not an assumption at all. It's a reasonable
conclusion based on the lack of evidence for anything supernatural. I make
no assumptions about the existence or lack of existence of a green and blue
polka-dotted elephant in my closet. Why should I make any such assumptions
about any god?
The rest of your post is baseless.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 09:40:04 AM |
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On Jul 15, 8:50 am, "Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
samuelbha...@gmail.com wrote:
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point
As only a theist who can only see things from a credulist's persective can.
but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
Hmmm...not really. That is a prediction based on firm historical
observations. If you think that is the same kind of belief as religious
faith, then all I can say is thank Jove you're not a scientist.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
If I started floating in midair, I would lose my "faith" in gravity. If my
stove suddenly started freezing my soup, I would lose my "faith" in
thermodynamics. Fortunately, none of these things have anything to do with
faith. They are based on reason, the antithesis of faith.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one.
Who told you that? It's not an assumption at all. It's a reasonable
conclusion based on the lack of evidence for anything supernatural. I make
no assumptions about the existence or lack of existence of a green and blue
polka-dotted elephant in my closet. Why should I make any such assumptions
about any god?
The rest of your post is baseless.
Geoff: I am simply trying to point out that since God's existence
can't be proved or disproved, what if we stopped bashing each other?
And yes Geoff, you do believe that God doesn't exist. Belief =
assumption = faith. Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief.
Belief in God is a 1 or 0 setting. You either believe he exists, or
you believe he doesn't exist. Either way, you still believe. That was
my point, and it is one that anyone who has taken a logic class will
agree with.
4 variables that contribute to a person's belief system:
Billions of years formation
God
No God
7 day formation
Mix and match the beliefs, but if you prove variable A, and happen to
believe variable B, does not mean that variable B is true because you
proved variable A.(proving Creationism does not prove God, the world
might have formed over 7 days without the help of God. Proving
Evolution does not disprove God. God might have set into motion the
Big Bang before stepping out of the picture.)
So unfortunately, God cannot be proven to be true or false through
science. If God is all powerful(which most texts concerning Him
describe Him to be), then He could simply be hiding in the other half
of knowledge we don't have, or even outside time and space completely.
My conclusion? "Oh crap, how are we supposed to know what's true?!"
Well, if I were a betting man, I know where I'd place my money... And
it happens to be a win - win situation.(Questions? Feel free to email
me. That's what email is for.)
Sincerely,
Samuel B. Hatch
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 11:38:55 AM |
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wrote:
On Jul 15, 8:50 am, "Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
wrote:
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point
As only a theist who can only see things from a credulist's persective can.
but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
Hmmm...not really. That is a prediction based on firm historical
observations. If you think that is the same kind of belief as religious
faith, then all I can say is thank Jove you're not a scientist.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
If I started floating in midair, I would lose my "faith" in gravity. If my
stove suddenly started freezing my soup, I would lose my "faith" in
thermodynamics. Fortunately, none of these things have anything to do with
faith. They are based on reason, the antithesis of faith.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one.
Who told you that? It's not an assumption at all. It's a reasonable
conclusion based on the lack of evidence for anything supernatural. I make
no assumptions about the existence or lack of existence of a green and blue
polka-dotted elephant in my closet. Why should I make any such assumptions
about any god?
The rest of your post is baseless.
Geoff: I am simply trying to point out that since God's existence
can't be proved or disproved, what if we stopped bashing each other?
Who said it can't be proved? All you need is just one bit of
objective, verifiable evidence. It just HASN'T been proved, and
there's a very reasonable explanation for that. The problem arises
when theists assume their unsupported assumption is realtiy, then
force others to act as if that "reality" has been proven.
And yes Geoff, you do believe that God doesn't exist.
You're confusing the difference between believing something and not
believing something.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disbelieve
transitive verb: to hold not worthy of belief : not believe
intransitive verb : to withhold or reject belief
Belief =
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in
some person or thing2: something believed; especially : a tenet or
body of tenets held by a group3: conviction of the truth of some
statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when
based on examination of evidence
synonyms belief, faith, ... mean assent to the truth of something
offered for acceptance. belief may or may not imply certitude in the
believer <my belief that I had caught all the errors>. faith almost
always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof <an
unshakable faith in God>.
assumption =
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assumption
5 a: an assuming that something is true b: a fact or statement (as a
proposition, axiom, postulate, or notion) taken for granted
faith.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the
traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something
for which there is no proof (2): complete trust3: something that is
believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of
religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief.
No. It is a rejection of based on lack of objective, verifiable
evidence.
Belief in God is a 1 or 0 setting. You either believe he exists, or
you believe he doesn't exist. Either way, you still believe.
Or you withhold believe until objective, verfiable evidence is
presented.
That was my point, and it is one that anyone who has taken a logic class will
agree with.
Uh, no.
4 variables that contribute to a person's belief system:
Billions of years formation
God
No God
7 day formation
Again, no. You're making some extraordinarily biased assumptions.
What contributes to a person's belief system is gullibility and
knowledge. There is no objective, verifiable evidence of any deities,
so any belief in deities comes from somewhere other than knowledge.
There is no objective, verifiable evidence of "7 day formation," so
any belief in "7 day formation" comes from somewhere other than
knowledge.
Mix and match the beliefs, but if you prove variable A, and happen to
believe variable B, does not mean that variable B is true because you
proved variable A.(proving Creationism does not prove God, the world
might have formed over 7 days without the help of God. Proving
Evolution does not disprove God. God might have set into motion the
Big Bang before stepping out of the picture.)
I like how you're chasing your tail.
So unfortunately, God cannot be proven to be true or false through
science. If God is all powerful(which most texts concerning Him
describe Him to be), then He could simply be hiding in the other half
of knowledge we don't have, or even outside time and space completely.
Which of course is nonsense; there is no reason to assume such a
ridiculous, illogical possibility. And, assuming something "outside
of time and space," how would it interact with time and space? It's
either outside or it isn't.
My conclusion? "Oh crap, how are we supposed to know what's true?!"
Well, if I were a betting man, I know where I'd place my money... And
it happens to be a win - win situation.(Questions? Feel free to email
me. That's what email is for.)
Ah, you're referring to the debunked Pascal's wager, which assumes the
xian god?
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| User: "The Rev Dr. Hugh Jarse NLAHN." |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 01:29:28 PM |
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On Jul 15, 3:40 pm, wrote:
On Jul 15, 8:50 am, "Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
wrote:
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point
As only a theist who can only see things from a credulist's persective can.
but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
Hmmm...not really. That is a prediction based on firm historical
observations. If you think that is the same kind of belief as religious
faith, then all I can say is thank Jove you're not a scientist.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
If I started floating in midair, I would lose my "faith" in gravity. If my
stove suddenly started freezing my soup, I would lose my "faith" in
thermodynamics. Fortunately, none of these things have anything to do with
faith. They are based on reason, the antithesis of faith.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one.
Who told you that? It's not an assumption at all. It's a reasonable
conclusion based on the lack of evidence for anything supernatural. I make
no assumptions about the existence or lack of existence of a green and blue
polka-dotted elephant in my closet. Why should I make any such assumptions
about any god?
The rest of your post is baseless.
Geoff: I am simply trying to point out that since God's existence
can't be proved or disproved, what if we stopped bashing each other?
And yes Geoff, you do believe that God doesn't exist. Belief =
assumption = faith. Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief.
Belief in God is a 1 or 0 setting. You either believe he exists, or
you believe he doesn't exist. Either way, you still believe.
I know God doesn't exist, I believe you are both stupid and dishonest,
and that you are, more probably than not, nothing but a troll.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 02:47:05 PM |
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On Jul 15, 1:29 pm, "The Rev Dr. Hugh Jarse NLAHN."
<hugh.ja...@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
On Jul 15, 3:40 pm, wrote:
On Jul 15, 8:50 am, "Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
wrote:
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Hmm. I think I see Lucas' point
As only a theist who can only see things from a credulist's persective can.
but I would definitely rephrase
it(not only for clarity, but also to rid it of inflammatory
statements).
I think what he means is that, all people have belief in something.
Everyone has assumptions. For example, when you go to sleep at night,
you believe the sun will rise in the morning, yes? That is a belief.
Hmmm...not really. That is a prediction based on firm historical
observations. If you think that is the same kind of belief as religious
faith, then all I can say is thank Jove you're not a scientist.
That means you have faith(faith as in belief, not in religion. I think
'religion' is an annoying, badly defined word anyway.) that the sun
will rise in the morning. If one day, say, the sun didn't rise in the
morning, and continued not to rise every morning(a scary thought, if
you ask me), I presume you would lose faith in the sun.
If I started floating in midair, I would lose my "faith" in gravity. If my
stove suddenly started freezing my soup, I would lose my "faith" in
thermodynamics. Fortunately, none of these things have anything to do with
faith. They are based on reason, the antithesis of faith.
You see, everyone has core assumptions. Christians have the core
assumption that there is a God, Atheists have the core assumption that
there isn't one.
Who told you that? It's not an assumption at all. It's a reasonable
conclusion based on the lack of evidence for anything supernatural. I make
no assumptions about the existence or lack of existence of a green and blue
polka-dotted elephant in my closet. Why should I make any such assumptions
about any god?
The rest of your post is baseless.
Geoff: I am simply trying to point out that since God's existence
can't be proved or disproved, what if we stopped bashing each other?
And yes Geoff, you do believe that God doesn't exist. Belief =
assumption = faith. Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief.
Belief in God is a 1 or 0 setting. You either believe he exists, or
you believe he doesn't exist. Either way, you still believe.
I know God doesn't exist, I believe you are both stupid and dishonest,
and that you are, more probably than not, nothing but a troll.
Thank you, Rev Dr. Hugh Jarse NLAHN. That is extremely open minded and
civil of you. Really it is. Seriously.
Sincerely(or maybe not so much at the moment),
Samuel B. Hatch
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Why are atheists so zealously defending their atheism??? |
15 Jul 2007 05:44:33 PM |
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:47:05 -0700, wrote:
On Jul 15, 1:29 pm, "The Rev Dr. Hugh Jarse NLAHN."
<hugh.ja...@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
On Jul 15, 3:40 pm, wrote:
On Jul 15, 8:50 am, "Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
wrote:
Atheism - the new religion? It seems so. It's human nature to believe
in
something. Even if it's a "god" called atheism!!! You people are
religious!!!
q.e.d.
Just suppose that what you say is true: So what?
Does that make your childish superstition, any more true?
snip
Geoff: I am simply trying to point out that since God's existence
can't be proved or disproved,
It doesn't have to be disproven.
There is no requirement to prove a thing, false, in order to not
believe it.
All that is necessary, is the inability to prove it true.
what if we stopped bashing each other?
And yes Geoff, you do believe that God doesn't exist. Belief =
assumption = faith.
Not necessarily, unless you are going to claim that all evidence, is
unsubstantiated assumption.
Whether you admit it or not, it is a belief.
But not necessarily blind, belief/faith.
When enough people have been looking for evidence, for long enough,
the lack os evidence, must perforce, be considered evidence of lack.
Belief in God is a 1 or 0 setting. You either believe he exists, or
you believe he doesn't exist.
Not so.
I do not believe in the existence of "Little Green Men from Planet X".
Nor do I believe that they do not exist.
Either way, you still believe.
Irrelevant. Believing or not, based on the evidence, or lack of the
same, is not the same as blind faith.
If there is no evidence, there is nothing to believe; Blind belief
does not come into it.
I know God doesn't exist, I believe you are both stupid and dishonest,
and that you are, more probably than not, nothing but a troll.
Thank you, Rev Dr. Hugh Jarse NLAHN. That is extremely open minded and
civil of you. Really it is. Seriously.
Sincerely(or maybe not so much at the moment),
Samuel B. Hatch
That is the kind of thing that you have to expect, if you decide to
post your illogical superstitious drivel, to atheist NGs.
--
The spelling like any opinion stated here
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
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