Well you touched on something else I was wondering about. What are the
Palestinians? Are they Arabs or are they something else? They seem to
not be well liked by the others in the Arab world.

"Eric Pepke" <epepke@acm.org> wrote

I'm not being hostile toward your conclusion or asking
for sources.I'm simply asking *in what way* you think
that Muslims are unified.

"Attack the great satan" is being sold in the Muslim world
the same way creationsim/Intelligent Design is being sold
in the Christian world.

Indeed honesty would require us to recognize that they
*didn't* hate and resent us as recently as the mid-1950's
during the Cold War

thomas p <thomasagainspam@yahoo.dk> wrote in
news:8shug0p9tp7o7bp58f0t0jt3ulgi6lqkt3@4ax.com:

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:16:04 -0400, Eris <vithant01@comcast.net>
wrote:

On 2 Aug 2004 06:59:54 -0700,

Eris <vithant01@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<432og0tikqobu15nak5laobhohmp234d5v@4ax.com>...

I was wondering why the Muslims were so unified and the Christians
weren't.

As has been pointed out, they aren't unified.

They may have common ground about some things, but this would
be a much more interesting discussion if you were to describe
in just what way you think they're unified.

Well I did read a book, a while back that stated that Arabs, who are
Muslims, were for the most part, Nomadic and more homogeneous in their
belief systems like other tribes. That there were no nations in the
middle east until the 1920's and there was little or no nationalism
among Arab Muslims toward these arbitrarily drawn counties.

Listening to Muslim speakers on radio and TV and a talking book from
Audible.com. A good company. I was told that when a brother or sister
Muslim in another country was harmed, it didn't matter what
Nationality the Muslim or Muslims were, it was as if they were of the
same family of the Muslim's hearing of this tragedy. This may be
hyperbole. But I believed it.

It was hyperbole. Moslems are very capable of killing each other over
different interpretations of being Moslem or of allying themselves
with non-Moslem countries against other Moslems. A Moslem in China
has little in common with a Moslem in former Yugoslavia; both areas
have large Moslem populations.

This was the basis of my conclusion that Bush may think he is invading
Iraq but in fact is also invading All of the middle eastern countries,
Malaysia, Pakistan, parts of the Philippines and who knows where else.

It is obvious that Bush and a great deal of the foreign policy of the
US for generations has created a lot of resentment and hate in a large
part of the world. That hate and resentment can create a kind of
unity.

It would be more honest to say that some of the locals would be at each
other's throats if they didn't have some foreigners to unite against.

It would also be more honest to recognize the contradiction inherent in
the phrase "Bush and the foreign policy of the US for generations".

Indeed honesty would require us to recognize that they *didn't* hate and
resent us as recently as the mid-1950's during the Cold War and that
individual Americans have and still have good relations with individual
Arabs throughout the region.

On 1 Aug 2004 02:01:29 -0700,

Why do "they" hate the West?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter13.htm

"Even small children know that Israel is nothing without America. And
here America means F-16, M-16, Apache helicopters, the tools Israelis
use to kill us and destroy our homes." Sheikh Abdul Majeed Atta. Hamas
member.

<History Channel Mode On>

How many F-16s, M-16s and Apache Helos were in Israel on May 15,

1948, when they were attacked by the six nations of Egypt, Syria,
Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia as well as
the local Palestinian population, the combined forces of which
initialy outnumbered the Israelis nearly 7 to 1?

Hint: The correct answer is "none", even ignoring for the moment that

these weapons didn't even exist then, the US had an arms embargo going
with Israel since December 5, 1947 in an effort to maintain stability
in the area, the US didn't want American weapons killing either arabs
or jews. On May 15, 1948 Israel did not have a single tank or cannon
and only 9 aircraft. Jordan, by far the largest arab participant had
RAF planes with RAF trained crews and their air force was led by an
RAF officer. In late 1948 to early 1949 RAF planes flew with the
Egyptian air force on patrols along the border with Israel, on Jan 7,
1949 the RAF lost 4 planes to Israeli aircraft.

As a result of their seriously bungled attack, the arabs ended up
with less land than they would have under the proposed UN partition
plan. Even after they got their collective butts kicked and were
forced to sign a cease fire, the arab nations tried to insist that the
1947 UN partition agreement be put in place before they would
negotiate a peace.

How much US material was in Israel in 1956 after Egypt violated UN
orders to open the Seuz Canal to Egyptian shipping and stop using

paramilitary forces operating out of Jordan to attack Israel after the
arab nations declared that they intended the complete destruction of
Israel? Very little, the principal arms supplier to Israel in nearly
three decades following the 1948 war was France, which had grown close
to Israel, politicaly and diplomaticaly. In fact, Eisenhower had to
dissuade France and England from declaring war on Egypt in 1951 when
the closed the Seuz Canal to Israeli shipping. Israel, England and
France came up with a joint plan to sieze the Canal zone; which
apparently annoyed the US to no end as it caught them completely by
surprise. The US joined with, of all countries, the Soviet Union, in
condemning the attack; threatening to get Israel expelled from the UN
and cutting off any and all US assistance. Israel backed down,
turning all siezed land back over to Egypt in return for a US promise
to ensure the freedom of their waterways.

The US sold little military equipment to Israel over the next decade
and 1967 rolled around and none of it was that superior to what the
Soviet union was selling to their neighbors. Over the previous two
years, Syria used the 3,000 foot elevation of the Golan Heights to
shell Israeli towns and vilages. Nasser vowed "We shall not enter
Palestine with its soil covered in sand, we shall enter it with its
soil saturated in blood." in early March 1965. Arab terrorist attacks
tripled in frequency in the early part of 1967 and a Syrian attacks

from the Golan Heights provoked a return attack which left six Syrian
MiGs shot down. Shortly afterwards, the Soviet Union gave Syria false
information that Israeli forces were massing on the border for an
attack. Syria ignored Israeli denials and invoked it's defense treaty
with Egypt, a month later they invaded. Nasser ordered the UN Emergy
Force, which had been stationed in the Sinai since 1956 to withdraw,
they wasted no time in complying without the Secretary General even
bothering to notify the General Assembly. They blockaded shipping to
Israel again, and Nasser issued challenges to Israel to fight, on May
27th he said "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel.
The Arab people want to fight." The whole time the US and France were
embargoing weapons shipments to Israel, despite arabs false claims
accusing the US of airlifting supplies to Israel. In contrast the
Soviets were supplying massive amounts of material to the arabs.
Kuwait, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing arms and
troops to the Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians.

Despite yet another attack with overwhelming numbers they managed to
get their collective asses kicked in only 6 days. Israel started with
8,000 square miles and captured 18,000, including the Sinai, Golan
Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and unifying Jerusalem. To
date some 93% of this territory has been returned in exchange for
peace, you can see how effective this policy has been.

Not to be deterred by having their heads handed to them on platters,
Egypt and Syria tried it yet again on October 6, 1973 during Yom
Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calender. 1,400 tanks and
80,000 men surged into Israel, where they ran into 180 tanks and 500
Israelis in the Sinai and Golan Heights. Despite having nearly an 8
to 1 advantage in tanks and 160 to 1 advantage in men during the
initial attack the arabs yet again outdid themselves. Showing off the
most ineffective use of military force the world has seen since the
the Battle of Cajamarca, Peru in 1532 where 80,000 battle hardened
Incan warriors were beaten by Pizzaro's 168 Spaniards. The arabs were
unable to drive the defenders out of the Golan Heights during the two
days it took for reinforcements to arrive. During the two weeks that
the situation looked to be going badly for Israel the UN did nothing,
then when the tide had turned and it looked to be like Egypt was going
to end up losing their whole country this time the UN called for
everyone to stop fighting and play nice.

I don't know what caused the inability to use Soviet Equipment
nearly on par to that of what the Israelis were using, but every time
they attacked Israel with a crushing advantage in numbers of men,
aircraft, artillery and armor, they get their asses kicked and lose
even more territory. US equipment had nothing to do with their losses
in those first four wars, but try getting the arabs to admit that.