| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
22 Jul 2005 02:49:26 AM |
| Object: |
Why Do People Who Support The Iraq War Lie So Often? |
So what makes people who support the war lie so often? Weren't you
warhawks the ones on your soap boxes a couple years ago talking about
how "moral" this war is? If it's so moral, why do you have to lie?
It's real easy for you keyboard "warriors" to talk about bombing other
people when it's not your family who is dying:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory80.html
People Die in War
by Anthony Gregory
Before long in any discussion with an apologist for the warfare state
one will hear this simple rejoinder to all talk of the devastation,
calamity, and bloodshed wrought by the latest military intervention:
"Well, yes, people die in war."
It is spoken as though it should shut off all concern for the innocent
life expended in war's barbaric cruelty. The mere fact that "people
die in war" is supposed to make us all realize that we have been
utterly unrealistic and juvenile in denouncing or even mentioning the
deaths in war. The proponents of war speak as though all costs in human
life have already been stipulated and thoroughly considered, and it
would be a waste of time for us ever to mention the dead again. Indeed,
only a childish mind would have brought it up in the first place. We
all know that people die in war.
When the beheading of Nick Berg dominated the news, effectively
overshadowing all news of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal for a week or
two, an acquaintance of mine with pro-war leanings was horrified, as
was I, but she was also at a loss for words that anyone could do
anything so savage to any other human being. The idea that the
"Islamofascists" could be humanly capable of such atrocious evil must
have been the worst shock to many Americans since 9/11. And, certainly,
no one worthy of human sympathy could ever do such a thing as what the
Islamic fanatics had done.
I told my pro-war friend that, in fact, the U.S. government has
committed enormities just as evil and inhumane, and done so casually
and with impunity, for the better part of its existence. Asked to name
an example, I simply said, "Shock and Awe" - an act of mass terror
bombing in which innocent Iraqis were torn apart limb by limb, and an
atrocity that certainly left a number of children dying slow, horrible
deaths.
"Well, people die in war," was her response. Yes, and Nick Berg was one
of them. So too were the 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11 - an event,
by the way, considered by both the terrorist perpetrators of that
attack, as well as most members of the American War Party, to have been
an "act of war." Indeed, America has been at war with Middle Easterners
since the 1950s, and of the millions who have died directly and
indirectly from the conflict, the vast majority have not been
Americans.
But to shrug off the 3,000 Americans whose lives were stolen on 9/11
with the crude adage, "people die in war," does seem a bit insensitive,
does it not? People do die in war, and when we consider that a good
number of those people are ones like you and me, who lived and worked
in our own country, it is a little harder for us to dismiss their
deaths as uneventful "collateral damage."
On the other hand, as a war continues, the more devoted hawks among us
do begin to treat even their own countrymen and women as disposable
heroes whose steadily growing number of fatalities is simply an
inevitable, albeit unfortunate, component of maintaining global order.
At first we hear about the threats to the American homeland, in
patriotic rhetoric adorned with appeals to the sanctity and
preciousness of every single American life. In the case of Iraq, we
heard the memories of 9/11 invoked constantly to remind us of the
frailty of life and the urgency to do something - anything - to
prevent more irreplaceable American lives from being prematurely and
violently destroyed. Foreign lives, too, got a fair hearing, for we all
knew that Saddam Hussein was a mass murderer, who had gassed the Kurds
in the 1980s and whose insatiable bloodlust had led him to seek the
destruction of America, one city at a time with one of his supposed
weapons of mass destruction at a time. And, as Bush said only a few
months before launching the second Gulf War, "Either you're with us,
or you're with the enemy; either you're with those who love
freedom, or you're with those who hate innocent life." Saddam hated
innocent life, and the U.S. government had to do something about it -
for the sake of innocent life, of course.
But now, with the war still raging, with more than 1,700 American
military troops and tens of thousands of Iraqis dead, the apologists
for the war machine say that "people die in war" and nonchalantly go
about their day - shopping at the mall, watching reality television,
or, if they're truly committed to the cause, participating in online
discussion forums that glorify war and the testosterone-heavy
celebrations that apparently coincide with rolling into towns with
tanks, shooting resisters to foreign occupation like stray dogs and
waving the American flag every time someone who speaks a different
language and practices a different faith in a remote country is blown
to bits by hi-tech, multi-million-dollar precision ordnance made in the
good ol' USA.
And so now, even the Americans who have died in Iraq are a taboo
subject, if not approached with careful politically correct patriotic
fervor. To bring them up in a negative tone, rather than as a toast to
the war effort, is in fact to aid the enemy. Seventeen hundred American
lives is suddenly something we should regard, if not with accolades,
then with casual acknowledgement. We living Americans are overly
squeamish about American wartime deaths, we are told by the manlier
among us, for they are trivial when compared to the glory of the U.S.
nation-state itself. Now that the main selling point of the war as an
act to protect American lives has been completely demolished, the
continued sacrifice of American lives by the government is still
defended, but on more tenuous grounds: people die in war, and this war
to dispose of the brutally murderous Saddam and establish democracy in
Iraq will certainly be proved to have been worth it.
Aside from the fact that Iraq is hardly better off, a theocratic regime
being its likely new government, electricity not working, violence
everywhere and sewage in the streets, the issue of Saddam's crimes
against innocent life has rarely gotten a sober assessment amidst the
jingoistic war propaganda. Almost never mentioned is the fact that he
had U.S. assistance during his worst war crimes. However, looking back
to the 1980s, we see a familiar sentiment surrounding America's
relationship with the dictator: at the time, Saddam's use of chemical
weapons was regrettable, his atrocities a bit gauche by American
standards, but, after all, it was war against the Ayatollah Khomeini,
and in war people die. Saddam was essentially a hero of the 1980s
realists, even if his forgivable excesses would later be cited as a
principal reason for ousting him from power at the cost of so many
dollars and so many lives.
So it goes and so it has gone with all U.S. interventions. The millions
the U.S. killed in World War II were unfortunate victims of tragic
circumstance, but not victims of any sort of crime. People die in war,
and a war against totalitarians certainly justified an alliance with
Stalin and actively assisting him in slaughtering two million of his
subjects. The millions that the U.S dropped bombs on in Korea, Vietnam,
Cambodia and all the lesser excursions since 1945 were simply millions
of those people - you know, the ones who die in war. For years the
American government has poisoned crops in Latin America, propped up
genocidal dictators in Asia, waged economic warfare in the form of
trade sanctions and blockades on people in third-world tyrannies all
over the planet, and left behind landmines and cluster bombs that still
kill people, long after the wars that inspired their use have
supposedly ended, in the far reaches and in all corners of the American
empire. But to keep the sun from setting on that empire, we must wage
war. And people must die. But that's hardly a surprise, nor is it
something with which we're supposed to worry our pretty little heads
or "beautiful minds" too much.
And yet, we hardly hear this line of reasoning when smaller, more
private acts of aggression come up. When we hear of a gang slaying, a
brutal rape, a serial killing or kidnapping in the news, I doubt many
among us would have the temerity to say dismissively, "Well, yeah,
people are hurt in rapes. People die in murders. That's what
happens." Few people have the heart to consider the victims of private
crime to be less than worthy of our deepest sympathies. And practically
no one but the most shameless sociopath would ever cheer or applaud
upon reading the news of the latest private slaughter or ravaging. The
apparent inevitability of crime in the modern world makes it no less
worthy of our denunciation and remorse. For the millions of people
murdered, raped, ripped apart and brutally assaulted in war, however,
all we hear is that we're acting childish and petty by bringing it
up. That there is such a distinction in the way innocents killed by
private criminals and innocents laid to waste by bombings and military
shootings are perceived by the average person reveals a deep and dark
disparity in the way people regard the State's actions and those of
ordinary individuals. This disparity is most dangerous and indeed most
depraved and perverse with war, as people come to praise and rejoice in
the very worst possible acts that humans are physically capable of
committing against one another. The sociological phenomena that have
fostered such a twisted and pervasive outlook on life and death, peace
and war, are complicated and well entrenched in our culture, but we
must do all we can to combat the intellectual error and failure in
empathy that wartime encourages and thrives on.
People die in war. They are killed. The greater peace that is promised
never comes, the greater freedom guaranteed is never delivered. Next
time someone shrugs off your concern for those who have died in any
given war at hand, and says, "people die in war," perhaps you should
ask why it is, considering the horrific effect wars apparently have on
people's respect for life, that they think war is an acceptable thing
to support.
June 18, 2005
Anthony Gregory [send him mail] is a writer and musician who lives in
Berkeley, California. He is a research assistant at the Independent
Institute. See his webpage for more articles and personal information.
Copyright =A9 2005 LewRockwell.com
.
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| User: "Morpheus Stormcrow" |
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| Title: Nothing New |
22 Jul 2005 05:31:33 PM |
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<conners_3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122018566.701589.235930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So what makes people who support the war lie so often? Weren't you
warhawks the ones on your soap boxes a couple years ago talking about
how "moral" this war is? If it's so moral, why do you have to lie?
It's real easy for you keyboard "warriors" to talk about bombing other
people when it's not your family who is dying:
Well, I haven't read anything there that justifies the statement, "lying
about a moral war." It's a long rant by the left, some bloke's opinion, like
yours, that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
.
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| User: "Jerry Chesko" |
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| Title: FLASH! Cross-posting trolls spam RGFD![WAS: Re: Nothing New] |
23 Jul 2005 10:16:11 PM |
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MSB, where are you now to pound into this mullet-head about violations of
the RGFD charter? :p
Tenyways, one man's "opinion" is another's truth and still another's lie.
Three sides of one coin, have fun.
Bush is a lame duck prez his second term is soon coming to close, we get a
new one like it or not, quicherbichen.
Morality is defined by those who consider themselves an authority in it,
i.e., The Vatican and other such Higher Orders of Thought
anything else is troll fodder. Glad to help brush your pitiful ego by
responding to your post.
-==-
Czechmate
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| User: "Matt Frisch" |
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| Title: Re: FLASH! Cross-posting trolls spam RGFD![WAS: Re: Nothing New] |
24 Jul 2005 12:49:59 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 03:16:11 GMT, "Jerry Chesko" <res7g0hd@verizon.net>
scribed into the ether:
MSB, where are you now to pound into this mullet-head about violations of
the RGFD charter? :p
Tenyways, one man's "opinion" is another's truth and still another's lie.
Three sides of one coin, have fun.
Bush is a lame duck prez his second term is soon coming to close, we get a
new one like it or not, quicherbichen.
You have a strange concept of the word "soon". His second term has just
barely hit the 6-month mark.
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| User: "Werebat" |
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| Title: Re: FLASH! Cross-posting trolls spam RGFD![WAS: Re: Nothing New] |
28 Jul 2005 11:19:44 PM |
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Matt Frisch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 03:16:11 GMT, "Jerry Chesko" <res7g0hd@verizon.net>
scribed into the ether:
MSB, where are you now to pound into this mullet-head about violations of
the RGFD charter? :p
Tenyways, one man's "opinion" is another's truth and still another's lie.
Three sides of one coin, have fun.
Bush is a lame duck prez his second term is soon coming to close, we get a
new one like it or not, quicherbichen.
You have a strange concept of the word "soon". His second term has just
barely hit the 6-month mark.
He means "soon" on a geological scale.
- Ron ^*^
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| User: "Colin Campbell remove underscore" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
22 Jul 2005 08:27:01 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:31:33 GMT, "Morpheus Stormcrow"
<fioeiof@fdgb.com> wrote:
<conners_3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122018566.701589.235930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So what makes people who support the war lie so often? Weren't you
warhawks the ones on your soap boxes a couple years ago talking about
how "moral" this war is? If it's so moral, why do you have to lie?
It's real easy for you keyboard "warriors" to talk about bombing other
people when it's not your family who is dying:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 AM |
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Colin Campbell <activated_95b@earthlink.net (remove underscore)> wrote in
news:e573e15pr926oeihvl7aie9ahh35dl5p26@4ax.com:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:31:33 GMT, "Morpheus Stormcrow"
<fioeiof@fdgb.com> wrote:
<conners_3@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122018566.701589.235930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So what makes people who support the war lie so often? Weren't you
warhawks the ones on your soap boxes a couple years ago talking about
how "moral" this war is? If it's so moral, why do you have to lie?
It's real easy for you keyboard "warriors" to talk about bombing other
people when it's not your family who is dying:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "Colin Campbell remove underscore" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 11:11:28 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
.
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| User: "Malachias Invictus" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 08:38:36 PM |
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"Colin Campbell" <activated_95b@earthlink.net (remove underscore)> wrote in
message news:2uq4e1l3qtijpgvc1n5dhvah2873hsirth@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
***** no. There are liars and exaggerators on both sides.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
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| User: "brique" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 10:17:57 PM |
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Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cqdnX5_ZYKGbH_fRVn-hA@comcast.com...
"Colin Campbell" <activated_95b@earthlink.net (remove underscore)> wrote
in
message news:2uq4e1l3qtijpgvc1n5dhvah2873hsirth@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
***** no. There are liars and exaggerators on both sides.
No,no..... the Left are liars, the Right are merely economical with the
truth to protect us from worrying our silly little heads with all those big
complex ideas that only they really understand.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
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| User: "Malachias Invictus" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
24 Jul 2005 01:04:49 AM |
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"brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:1122175733.669.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cqdnX5_ZYKGbH_fRVn-hA@comcast.com...
"Colin Campbell" <activated_95b@earthlink.net (remove underscore)> wrote
in
message news:2uq4e1l3qtijpgvc1n5dhvah2873hsirth@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
***** no. There are liars and exaggerators on both sides.
No,no..... the Left are liars, the Right are merely economical with the
truth to protect us from worrying our silly little heads with all those
big
complex ideas that only they really understand.
Well, there is that. Besides, it must be the truth, because I heard it on
the news.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
.
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| User: "Kaos" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
24 Jul 2005 06:04:11 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 04:17:57 +0100, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.com>
dared speak in front of ME:
Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cqdnX5_ZYKGbH_fRVn-hA@comcast.com...
"Colin Campbell" <activated_95b@earthlink.net (remove underscore)> wrote
in
message news:2uq4e1l3qtijpgvc1n5dhvah2873hsirth@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
***** no. There are liars and exaggerators on both sides.
No,no..... the Left are liars, the Right are merely economical with the
truth to protect us from worrying our silly little heads with all those big
complex ideas that only they really understand.
Despite our similarities, the culture gap between the US and Canada is
astounding sometimes.
In Canada, it's exactly the opposite. (With some exceptions, cf
"Adscam." But then, the Liberal party professed a more centrist than
leftist tone at the time anyway.)
--
Address no longer works.
try removing all numbers from
gafgirl1@2allstream3.net
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
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| User: "miguel" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 11:26:56 AM |
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Colin Campbell wrote:
Jez wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
Hi dissembler. That's quite different from claiming that everybody who
opposes the war must lie to support the opposition.
Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
Oh look, another moron parroting republican talking points.
Durbin said that if you didn't know that the descriptions of prisoner
treatment he offered occurred at abu ghraib, a reader might suspect
they were descriptions of prisoner treatment at a gulag or a
concentration camp.
Now, is there anything inaccurate about what Durbin said?
Of course, we haven't seen the worst of it. Evidently there are
pictures and videos of boys being sodomized and women being raped. The
White House is refusing to allow these materials to be released.
Take a look here:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Rueful_Rumsfeld_050704.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/22/20220/6952
When freedom is "on the march" evidently it's necessary to sodomize
children.
.
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| User: "enialle" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 11:57:34 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:26:56 -0700, miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote:
Colin Campbell wrote:
Jez wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
Hi dissembler. That's quite different from claiming that everybody who
opposes the war must lie to support the opposition.
exactly.
Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
Oh look, another moron parroting republican talking points.
Durbin said that if you didn't know that the descriptions of prisoner
treatment he offered occurred at abu ghraib, a reader might suspect
they were descriptions of prisoner treatment at a gulag or a
concentration camp.
Now, is there anything inaccurate about what Durbin said?
Of course, we haven't seen the worst of it. Evidently there are
pictures and videos of boys being sodomized and women being raped. The
White House is refusing to allow these materials to be released.
Take a look here:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Rueful_Rumsfeld_050704.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/22/20220/6952
When freedom is "on the march" evidently it's necessary to sodomize
children.
***** bush wants to veto any bill that tries to prevent such torture
again. Can you imagine how much the Americans would turn even more
against the war if they saw those photographs?
~~To send a real email, keep in mind the sender
hates places with no windows~~~
.
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| User: "Dan Clore" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 01:58:53 PM |
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Colin Campbell wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
<iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
to use lies to justify their position.
We don't.
So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
war is the truth?
Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
.
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| User: "Omega" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 02:43:09 PM |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
|>>>to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
|> war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From that you
would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
---
"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 07:28:17 PM |
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Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
|>>>to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
|> war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin...
If you cannot communicate without insults, you cannot communicate at all.
HAND.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dan Clore" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 04:56:13 PM |
|
|
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war have
|>>>to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose the
|> war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From that you
would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 05:37:43 PM |
|
|
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Political correctness is a form of moral and emotional blackmail
whereby if you call a spade a spade you must apologize to the spade.
.
|
|
|
| User: "miguel" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 05:48:25 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 07:09:46 PM |
|
|
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Political correctness is a form of moral and emotional blackmail
whereby if you call a spade a spade you must apologize to the spade.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 09:19:20 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
insulting or name-calling?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 10:20:31 PM |
|
|
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in news:IUCEe.5139$dM3.280
@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at
Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis.
From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
insulting or name-calling?
When the Left starts talking about the Right without insults or name-
calling.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Political correctness is a form of moral and emotional blackmail
whereby if you call a spade a spade you must apologize to the spade.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
24 Jul 2005 03:05:58 AM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote
When the Left starts talking about the Right without
insults or name- calling.
When the right stops pretending that pointing out objective
facts is name calling....
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 11:17:58 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in news:IUCEe.5139$dM3.280
@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at
Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis.
From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
insulting or name-calling?
When the Left starts talking about the Right without insults or name-
calling.
You know what, Fred? I'm not even going to get into that with you. You
know very well that the Right insults the Left far more than the Left
ever insults the Right. But why should I even bother you with the
truth? You'd think it's Left-Wing Lunacy anyway.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
24 Jul 2005 07:28:32 AM |
|
|
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:WDEEe.5182$dM3.634@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in news:IUCEe.5139$dM3.280
@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at
Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis.
From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
insulting or name-calling?
When the Left starts talking about the Right without insults or name-
calling.
You know what, Fred? I'm not even going to get into that with you.
You know very well that the Right insults the Left far more than the
Left ever insults the Right.
Now you're lying, Daniel.
But why should I even bother you with
the truth? You'd think it's Left-Wing Lunacy anyway.
I think you're so soaked in left-wing lunacy that you can't tell the
difference.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Political correctness is a form of moral and emotional blackmail
whereby if you call a spade a spade you must apologize to the spade.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
24 Jul 2005 07:48:37 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:WDEEe.5182$dM3.634@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in news:IUCEe.5139$dM3.280
@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at
Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis.
From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
insulting or name-calling?
When the Left starts talking about the Right without insults or name-
calling.
You know what, Fred? I'm not even going to get into that with you.
You know very well that the Right insults the Left far more than the
Left ever insults the Right.
Now you're lying, Daniel.
Am I?
But why should I even bother you with
the truth? You'd think it's Left-Wing Lunacy anyway.
I think you're so soaked in left-wing lunacy that you can't tell the
difference.
Now you're lying, Fred.
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
24 Jul 2005 09:32:46 AM |
|
|
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:F6MEe.2545$vY2.185@trnddc09:
Fred Stone wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:WDEEe.5182$dM3.634@trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:IUCEe.5139$dM3.280 @trnddc04:
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:49i5e1ttlqk26hjr1o3vre2sk2p5md6a5j@4ax.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in
news:3kfso2Fu6kopU1@individual.net:
Omega wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:58:53 -0700, Dan Clore
<clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:33:04 -0500, Jez
|> <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support
|>>>the
war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>
|>>We don't.
|>
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|>
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at
Gitmo?
|
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis.
From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court
martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
insulting or name-calling?
When the Left starts talking about the Right without insults or
name- calling.
You know what, Fred? I'm not even going to get into that with you.
You know very well that the Right insults the Left far more than the
Left ever insults the Right.
Now you're lying, Daniel.
Am I?
Yep.
But why should I even bother you with
the truth? You'd think it's Left-Wing Lunacy anyway.
I think you're so soaked in left-wing lunacy that you can't tell the
difference.
Now you're lying, Fred.
No, Daniel, I really do think that.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Political correctness is a form of moral and emotional blackmail
whereby if you call a spade a spade you must apologize to the spade.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Janos Kaldy" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 09:56:26 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 02:19:20 GMT, DanielSan <daniel-san@myrealbox.com>
wrote:
When, oh, when, will the Right ever talk about the Left without
Too funny
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "miguel" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 09:32:03 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel wrote
Fred Stone wrote:
Dan Clore wrote
Omega wrote:
Dan Clore wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> Jez wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the war
|>>>have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>We don't.
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who oppose
|> the war is the truth?
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at Gitmo?
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis. From
that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
So what? There were plenty of other acts that occurred. When you say
that Senator Durbin basically called the military a bunch of nazis,
you are demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension. I challenge
you to go look at the actual content of his speech, instead of its
portrayal by Sean Hannity, Anne Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Bill
O'Reilly, and make a logical argument supporting your characterization
of his speech. Dumbass.
miguel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Nothing New |
23 Jul 2005 10:33:24 PM |
|
|
miguel <mjc@drizzle.net> wrote in
news:u5v5e1dhagfgpfthi1dko78heihkjh9mbp@4ax.com:
Fred Stone wrote:
miguel wrote
Fred Stone wrote:
Dan Clore wrote
Omega wrote:
Dan Clore wrote:
|Colin Campbell wrote:
|> Jez wrote:
|>>>Of course we could ask why the people who do not support the
|>>>war have to use lies to justify their position.
|>>We don't.
|> So you are claiming that everything said by the people who
|> oppose the war is the truth?
|> Like Durban's accusations against the Soldiers serving at
|> Gitmo?
|Durban said that an account of torture sounded like
|something a totalitarian regime would commit. You have a
|problem with that, Colon? Upset that Durban said something
|bad about Hitler and Pol Pot?
Turban Durbin basically called the military a bunch of Nazis.
From that you would expect them to be rounding folks like you
up.,
No, he did not. He said that an act of torture sounded like
something a totalitarian regime would do. It did.
And as it turns out, he was lying about that alleged act.
It *never happened*.
Right. That's why some lower rank grunts have been court martialed.
Not about the particular act that Senator Turban was crying about.
So what? There were plenty of other acts that occurred. When you say
that Senator Durbin basically called the military a bunch of nazis,
you are demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension. I challenge
you to go look at the actual content of his speech, instead of its
portrayal by Sean Hannity, Anne Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Bill
O'Reilly, and make a logical argument supporting your characterization
of his speech. Dumbass.
I read his speech, more times than I'd care to. He claimed that one
unconfirmed FBI report could be mistaken for the treatment meted out by
the Nazis or the Soviet Gulag or by Pol Pot's regime. That, by
implication, said that, to him, our own soldiers were no better than
Nazis or Soviet prison guards.
And that's how Al Jazeera TV quoted him, too. So his comment went into
the enemy propaganda cycle almost immediately.
To top it off, he didn't apologize for his outrageous characterization
of our military guards either. He only apologized "if anybody was
offended", as if it was *their fault* that he said it.
Egregious insult noted.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Political correctness is a form of moral and emotional blackmail
whereby if you call a spade a spade you must apologize to the spade.
.
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