| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Truth Hunter" |
| Date: |
19 Nov 2005 06:10:23 AM |
| Object: |
Why do you need Jesus? |
Why do you need Jesus?
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath!(Author unknown)=20
One God, father-son-ghost?
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| User: "Icono" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 12:26:08 PM |
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"Tyrone Robinson" <tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote in message
news:fIidnWAgTIw9-eLenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@rcn.net...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of
our Lord Jesus Christ;
Give thanks "to" the Father.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and
things in earth, and things under the earth;
Bow in worship (should)
Do you know what prayer is?
"At the name of Jesus?" "At"?
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 12:37:06 PM |
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"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:p6Kff.6479$qw.4170@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
You're twisting words.
(Joh 14:6) Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no
one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name
of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Give thanks "to" the Father.
"In the name of " is not "to".
You're twisting words.
(Joh 14:6) Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no
one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and
things in earth, and things under the earth;
Bow in worship (should)
Do you know what prayer is?
Well, let me see if I can search the scriptures and maybe someday I'll
figure out what prayer is...
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| User: "Icono" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 12:52:18 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4hKff.35183$0l5.12447@dukeread06...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:p6Kff.6479$qw.4170@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
You're twisting words.
(Joh 14:6) Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no
one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Correct.
All prayers to God the Father go through Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Also "through" means "belief in" but wouldn't have to here.
No indication of praying "TO" Jesua.
You are the one "twisting" physical words to imply prayer to
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name
of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Give thanks "to" the Father.
"In the name of " is not "to".
You're twisting words.
Correct.
All prayers to God the Father go through Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Also "through" means "belief in" but wouldn't have to here.
No indication of praying "TO" Jesua.
You are the one "twisting" physical words to imply prayer to
(Joh 14:6) Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no
one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven,
and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Bow in worship (should)
Do you know what prayer is?
Well, let me see if I can search the scriptures and maybe someday I'll
figure out what prayer is...
So far you have not indicated that you do.
Prayer is speaking with direct purpose or request to another.
Bowing is not prayer. It is often used in reverence before men.
Prayer according to Jesus is going into a closet (Private, secluded place)
and conversing / requesting.
Interestingly, praise is never equated with prayer in the bible. That may
or may not be relevant.
Singing and music is called worship. The words may be a prayer. Physical
action and activity is called worship, never prayer.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 06:19:41 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:52:18 -0700, "Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote:
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4hKff.35183$0l5.12447@dukeread06...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:p6Kff.6479$qw.4170@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
You're twisting words.
(Joh 14:6) Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no
one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.
Correct.
All prayers to God the Father go through Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Also "through" means "belief in" but wouldn't have to here.
No indication of praying "TO" Jesua.
If you agree the way to the Father is through Jesus, you know your
prayer to the Father is through Jesus. What's the difference between
you praying to the Father and me praying to Jesus? Are you worried
that Jesus may keep your prayer from reaching the Father? Jesus and
his Father are one. Those who have seen Jesus have seen the Father.
Therefore, logic dictates those who pray to Jesus pray to the Father
also. In fact, without Jesus Christ, no one knows the Father, not to
mention praying to the Father.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 12:39:10 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: Well, let me see if I can search the scriptures and maybe someday I'll
: figure out what prayer is...
Look in Romans in the Old Testament. LOL!!! Bwahahahahahahaha!!!
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
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| User: "Tyrone Robinson" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 02:18:09 PM |
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"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message news:p6Kff.6479$qw.4170@fed1read07...
"Tyrone Robinson" <tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote in message
news:fIidnWAgTIw9-eLenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@rcn.net...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father, not
Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of
our Lord Jesus Christ;
Give thanks "to" the Father.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and
things in earth, and things under the earth;
Bow in worship (should)
Do you know what prayer is?
"At the name of Jesus?" "At"?
Do you know what "do all in the name of the Lord Jesus" means?
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| User: "Icono" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 11:01:43 PM |
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"Tyrone Robinson" <tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote in message
news:oI6dncX3-6jjFeLenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@rcn.net...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:p6Kff.6479$qw.4170@fed1read07...
"Tyrone Robinson" <tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote in message
news:fIidnWAgTIw9-eLenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@rcn.net...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name
of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Give thanks "to" the Father.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven,
and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Bow in worship (should)
Do you know what prayer is?
"At the name of Jesus?" "At"?
Do you know what "do all in the name of the Lord Jesus" means?
Praying TO THE FATHER at all times IN THE NAME OF Jesus is NOT PRAYING TO
JESUS.
Are you really that dense or has you religion poisoned you that much?
Most religious idiots ALSO don't know the difference between "in the Name of
Jesus" and "in Jesus' name".
I sometimes think the Catholics have it right when they say the common man
is too stupid to understand scripture. Of course they have pre-trained
people telling other people.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 02:28:30 AM |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:01:43 -0700, "Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote:
"Tyrone Robinson" <tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote in message
news:oI6dncX3-6jjFeLenZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@rcn.net...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:p6Kff.6479$qw.4170@fed1read07...
"Tyrone Robinson" <tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote in message
news:fIidnWAgTIw9-eLenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@rcn.net...
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.
Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
"Thanks to God and the Father (by) Him.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name
of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Give thanks "to" the Father.
"In the name of " is not "to".
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven,
and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Bow in worship (should)
Do you know what prayer is?
"At the name of Jesus?" "At"?
Do you know what "do all in the name of the Lord Jesus" means?
Praying TO THE FATHER at all times IN THE NAME OF Jesus is NOT PRAYING TO
JESUS.
Are you really that dense or has you religion poisoned you that much?
Most religious idiots ALSO don't know the difference between "in the Name of
Jesus" and "in Jesus' name".
I sometimes think the Catholics have it right when they say the common man
is too stupid to understand scripture. Of course they have pre-trained
people telling other people.
The common man is too stupid to understand scripture, yet he knows to
rely on Jesus. The uncommon man is too smart to know Jesus, yet he
boasts about praying to the Father. I say, without Jesus, you can only
call the devil father.
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| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 07:51:02 AM |
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Why do you need Jesus?
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
Maybe Jesus is a receptionist? After years of controlling sparrow
traffic, the father sector needed rest. He's only human after all;
omnipotence evidently drains him. He's now out-sourcing, by the way;
prayers are routed to India and a guy using the name "Brad" will handle
all implorings.
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 03:53:55 AM |
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I think there is a relatively, so to speak, simple answer.
Because for there to be true justice, and true love, a price had to be
paid, which a man, like you and I could not pay. Because we cannot
engineer our own salvation according to works, by the law, which is a
matter of the heart, any part of which if broken, breaks the whole of
it, since it is a law of integrity and wholeness. Jesus, as a gift
unearned yet freely given, once recieved, according to the ransom price
paid, enables, through his intercessory Grace, a verdict of "not
guilty" <gavel sound>. Our sin then is born on HIS cross, and we are
forgiven, and, in resurrection life, by dying to the old man of sin, we
too are resurrected with Christ in the life eternal, by the Holy Spirit
comingling with our spirit (no longer separated from it) such that we
ourselves, in the space of a radical transformative forgiveness, may
begin, however fast or slow, to enter into a new sphere of realm
(domain) of increasing integrity and wholeness, capable of integratiing
with God's own Spirit, by the continuous timeless, spaceless
intervening action of the cross - which is the final intersection
(duality of good and evil), where all sin, as a relative degenerative
disorder of corruption (no integrity) became relative to the one
blameless victim - and all goodness, mercy, truth, beauty, justice and
righteousness the only absolute that we can be absolutely certain of at
the end of the day and in the final analysis. The cross then, and the
principal for which Christ died is a timeless spaceless principal, so
it mateters not if it occured 2000 years ago, or yesterday, or for all
humanity, or one lost sinful soul.
In and through Christ, the *absurdity* of the original sin (causality
of sin from generation to generation), as an injustice to the
individual as historical participant by neccessity (enmeshed in and
bracketed by history) - does not terminate in a meaningless absurdity,
which in the end is no longer funny, but insulting, particularly at the
point where the price of sin is death! LOL
Point is, as a Christian it IS funny, in as much as we are feed of it,
and set free in an eternally forgiven present moment such that the
final cosmic joke is at the expense of the devil as the fear of death.
So if your life is one big mess, in so many ways, born of something
which happened at some point, either in your own life or in the life of
one of your ancestors, you can take responsibility for it, relative to
a type of forgiveness which is entirely objective, and thereby entirely
capable of putting an end to the dynamic, with you, where you are at,
in the here and now. It's a resolution to the problem of evil, Jesus'
death and resurrection is.
Christianity therefore permits one to laugh in the face of life's
absurdity in a meaningful way, which makes perfect rational sense and
then some, and which may be actually experienced in terms of a newfound
unified relationship with God as creator and divine Spirit of the
Univerise (Holy Spirit) which is one and the same spirit as Christ
himself, processed (via the holy trinity) for our ENJOYMENT and
CONSUMPTION.
It is the highest image of sex (consumation of innermost self and
innerant and transcendant spirit of God), of eating (consumation for
life) and of an organic principal of life meeting life (tree of life)
involving a lifelong process of spiritual growth both for practical
terms in this life, and in preparation for the next one in the next
sphere or realm wherever that may be, which is most appropriate to our
gifts, and our trust - "well done you good and faithful servant. You
have shown that you can be trusted in little things. Therefore I will
give you even greater things to do this time 'round. Christianity,
properly interpreted represents the opportunity to participate in
creation from Glory to Glory, forever, while never getting bored or
running out of things to do which are of value since there is no death
in Christ, and since "heaven" is a very big place, of "many rooms".
Thus, if you hear him knocking, open the door and let him in, or, if
you feel you need him, knock and the door shall be opened to you.
We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works.
The "job" of the Christian is not to try to be a good person, but to
actually become one, through recieving.
What must we do Lord to do the works of God?
Believe in the one who God sent, and love one another as I have loved
you.
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| User: "ICONO" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 08:08:53 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in message
news:1132480435.292544.141670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I think there is a relatively, so to speak, simple answer.
Thus, if you hear him knocking, open the door and let him in, or, if
you feel you need him, knock and the door shall be opened to you.
We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works.
The "job" of the Christian is not to try to be a good person, but to
actually become one, through recieving.
What must we do Lord to do the works of God?
Believe in the one who God sent, and love one another as I have loved
you.
Why say simple and go on and on? Why add to the "I will knock" sequence?
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 11:34:33 PM |
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"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
seraphim, cherubim, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, or any other fictional
character dreamed up by humans in sandals several thousand years ago.
People can be and are perfectly decent without the threat of god's
wrath.
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| User: "Icono" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
21 Nov 2005 08:07:33 AM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132551273.692513.116230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
seraphim, cherubim, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, or any other fictional
character dreamed up by humans in sandals several thousand years ago.
People can be and are perfectly decent without the threat of god's
wrath.
Yes you do.
1. Yourself (ego)
2. The religion of Atheism
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
21 Nov 2005 11:18:12 AM |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:07:33 -0700, "Icono"
<overhere@overtherethere.com> wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132551273.692513.116230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
seraphim, cherubim, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, or any other fictional
character dreamed up by humans in sandals several thousand years ago.
People can be and are perfectly decent without the threat of god's
wrath.
Yes you do.
Nope. Sorry.
1. Yourself (ego)
I don't worship myself.
2. The religion of Atheism
Atheism is not a religion.
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| User: "Tyrone Robinson" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
21 Nov 2005 07:51:32 AM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132551273.692513.116230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
seraphim, cherubim, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, or any other fictional
character dreamed up by humans in sandals several thousand years ago.
People can be and are perfectly decent without the threat of god's
wrath.
Sure people can be decent, but it's not a question of being decent. It's a
question of where you will spend eternity.
.
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| User: "EagleEye" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
21 Nov 2005 07:55:46 AM |
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"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
And I meant essentially that to be alive is to be attached, and that
therefore what we are attached to can and eventually does become a
primary object of worship, even something which may start out all good
and well intentioned, like attachment to family for example. Our
idolatry, towards anything other than the one God of the very highest
leads invariable and inexorably, to an impoverishment. Vanity vanity
all is vanity!
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| User: "Icono" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
21 Nov 2005 08:08:55 AM |
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"EagleEye" <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote in message
news:1132581346.296828.138350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
And I meant essentially that to be alive is to be attached, and that
therefore what we are attached to can and eventually does become a
primary object of worship, even something which may start out all good
and well intentioned, like attachment to family for example. Our
idolatry, towards anything other than the one God of the very highest
leads invariable and inexorably, to an impoverishment. Vanity vanity
all is vanity!
A modern translation for vanity might be ego.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
21 Nov 2005 09:43:08 AM |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:51:32 -0500, "Tyrone Robinson"
<tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132551273.692513.116230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"We all have our Gods, and a choice must be made, and no man can
engineer his own salvation by his own good works."
No we don't. I don't have any gods, devils, demons, sprites, nymphs,
seraphim, cherubim, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, or any other fictional
character dreamed up by humans in sandals several thousand years ago.
People can be and are perfectly decent without the threat of god's
wrath.
Sure people can be decent, but it's not a question of being decent. It's a
question of where you will spend eternity.
Don't be so fucking stupid.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 11:18:01 AM |
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On 19 Nov 2005 04:10:23 -0800, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you need Jesus?
Because Jesus Christ is our personal Lord. We do not pray to the god
high above the sky or down below the abyss. We pray to the Lord in our
heart who gives us the Light through wisdom and love.
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
It's not about praying to God directly or indirectly. It's about
praying to the true God or false god. The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
They are deceived. They do not know the true God.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro-m his own
wrath!(Author unknown)
One God, father-son-ghost?
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| User: "Tyrone Robinson" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 11:53:41 AM |
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"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:rfmun1hrqbcpc12rpgriu5odkn3j9e00vr@4ax.com...
On 19 Nov 2005 04:10:23 -0800, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you need Jesus?
Because Jesus Christ is our personal Lord. We do not pray to the god
high above the sky or down below the abyss. We pray to the Lord in our
heart who gives us the Light through wisdom and love.
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
It's not about praying to God directly or indirectly. It's about
praying to the true God or false god.
True.
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
They are deceived. They do not know the true God.
True. Most Jews rejected the long awaited Jewish Messiah. His name is Jesus.
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 02:22:21 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:53:41 -0500, "Tyrone Robinson"
<tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:rfmun1hrqbcpc12rpgriu5odkn3j9e00vr@4ax.com...
On 19 Nov 2005 04:10:23 -0800, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you need Jesus?
Because Jesus Christ is our personal Lord. We do not pray to the god
high above the sky or down below the abyss. We pray to the Lord in our
heart who gives us the Light through wisdom and love.
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
It's not about praying to God directly or indirectly. It's about
praying to the true God or false god.
True.
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
They are deceived. They do not know the true God.
True. Most Jews rejected the long awaited Jewish Messiah. His name is Jesus.
.
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| User: "Tyrone Robinson" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 02:26:42 PM |
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"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:53:41 -0500, "Tyrone Robinson"
<tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:rfmun1hrqbcpc12rpgriu5odkn3j9e00vr@4ax.com...
On 19 Nov 2005 04:10:23 -0800, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you need Jesus?
Because Jesus Christ is our personal Lord. We do not pray to the god
high above the sky or down below the abyss. We pray to the Lord in our
heart who gives us the Light through wisdom and love.
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
It's not about praying to God directly or indirectly. It's about
praying to the true God or false god.
True.
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
They are deceived. They do not know the true God.
True. Most Jews rejected the long awaited Jewish Messiah. His name is Jesus.
They were praying for god to enslave them and slaughter them?
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 06:22:11 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:26:42 -0500, "Tyrone Robinson"
<tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:53:41 -0500, "Tyrone Robinson"
<tyrone@tyrone.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:rfmun1hrqbcpc12rpgriu5odkn3j9e00vr@4ax.com...
On 19 Nov 2005 04:10:23 -0800, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you need Jesus?
Because Jesus Christ is our personal Lord. We do not pray to the god
high above the sky or down below the abyss. We pray to the Lord in our
heart who gives us the Light through wisdom and love.
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
It's not about praying to God directly or indirectly. It's about
praying to the true God or false god.
True.
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
They are deceived. They do not know the true God.
True. Most Jews rejected the long awaited Jewish Messiah. His name is Jesus.
They were praying for god to enslave them and slaughter them?
They were praying to a god who had been enslaving them and
slaughtering them.
.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 02:39:21 PM |
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"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment just to try
and find some credibility to your claims. It would be much easier if you
could point out exactly *where* in the Old Testiment you claim this is
written.
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 06:23:23 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:39:21 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment just to try
and find some credibility to your claims. It would be much easier if you
could point out exactly *where* in the Old Testiment you claim this is
written.
The name of the devil is Jehovah.
Clear enough? :-)
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 08:58:26 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:39:21 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment just
to try and find some credibility to your claims. It would be much
easier if you could point out exactly *where* in the Old Testiment you
claim this is written.
The name of the devil is Jehovah.
Clear enough? :-)
So the JWs are devil worshipers? Are they aware of this?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
19 Nov 2005 10:39:27 PM |
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:58:26 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:39:21 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment just
to try and find some credibility to your claims. It would be much
easier if you could point out exactly *where* in the Old Testiment you
claim this is written.
The name of the devil is Jehovah.
Clear enough? :-)
So the JWs are devil worshipers? Are they aware of this?
I don't think anybody is a devil worshiper. I can only say many are
deceived God worshipers. I was one of them for vigorously defending
the evil actions of Jehovah god. Now, I have finally found the
strength and rebelled. I don't need to make excuses for Jehovah's sake
anymore. Anybody who has defended the Old Testament evil lord should
know, it's not a good feeling to speak for evil killing and genocidal
massacre.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 10:38:49 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:58:26 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:39:21 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter
them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment just
to try and find some credibility to your claims. It would be much
easier if you could point out exactly *where* in the Old Testiment
you claim this is written.
The name of the devil is Jehovah.
Clear enough? :-)
So the JWs are devil worshipers? Are they aware of this?
I don't think anybody is a devil worshiper.
Sure you do, you just said the name of the devil is Jehovah.
I can only say many are
deceived God worshipers. I was one of them for vigorously defending
the evil actions of Jehovah god. Now, I have finally found the
strength and rebelled. I don't need to make excuses for Jehovah's sake
anymore. Anybody who has defended the Old Testament evil lord should
know, it's not a good feeling to speak for evil killing and genocidal
massacre.
According to most Christians, they are all the same god. The one that
created everything, the one that killed everything just to let it grow
back the same, the one that gave us the meaningless decalogue those
legislators in the bible belt like to build monuments to on government
property, which is also the god of the Muslims, the god of the Jews, the
god that begat Jesus, and the god of the Mormons. So many conflicting
factions, so many wars. The only way to get away from evil killing and
genocidal massacre is to dump religion completely. We atheists have
done that.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.
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| User: "Lion Of Judah" |
|
| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 06:29:46 PM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971457F25653Evicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:58:26 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:39:21 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter
them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment just
to try and find some credibility to your claims. It would be much
easier if you could point out exactly *where* in the Old Testiment
you claim this is written.
The name of the devil is Jehovah.
Clear enough? :-)
So the JWs are devil worshipers? Are they aware of this?
I don't think anybody is a devil worshiper.
Sure you do, you just said the name of the devil is Jehovah.
I can only say many are
deceived God worshipers. I was one of them for vigorously defending
the evil actions of Jehovah god. Now, I have finally found the
strength and rebelled. I don't need to make excuses for Jehovah's sake
anymore. Anybody who has defended the Old Testament evil lord should
know, it's not a good feeling to speak for evil killing and genocidal
massacre.
According to most Christians, they are all the same god.
And since when were most Christians right?
Rev:14:1: And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with
him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in
their foreheads.
2: And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the
voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with
their harps:
3: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the
four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the
hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 09:51:55 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Lion Of Judah
(sonofman1@comcast.net) made the light shine upon us with this:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971457F25653Evicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:58:26 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:39:21 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Eric Brze" <brze@no.spam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:u72vn1l5otuo6jaj10lnes426r8bj6bgkv@4ax.com...
The Jews have been praying to a
god that is high above the sky to enslave them and slaughter
them.
Where did you get that from?
It's called the Old Testament.
I don't think he wants to wade through the entire Old Testiment
just to try and find some credibility to your claims. It would be
much easier if you could point out exactly *where* in the Old
Testiment you claim this is written.
The name of the devil is Jehovah.
Clear enough? :-)
So the JWs are devil worshipers? Are they aware of this?
I don't think anybody is a devil worshiper.
Sure you do, you just said the name of the devil is Jehovah.
I can only say many are
deceived God worshipers. I was one of them for vigorously defending
the evil actions of Jehovah god. Now, I have finally found the
strength and rebelled. I don't need to make excuses for Jehovah's
sake anymore. Anybody who has defended the Old Testament evil lord
should know, it's not a good feeling to speak for evil killing and
genocidal massacre.
According to most Christians, they are all the same god.
And since when were most Christians right?
Rev:14:1: And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and
with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name
written in their foreheads.
2: And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and
as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers
harping with their harps:
3: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before
the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but
the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the
earth.
Right, the 144,000 chosen ones. Heaven's all full. So why bother?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? |
20 Nov 2005 12:01:51 PM |
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On 19 Nov 2005 04:10:23 -0800, "Truth Hunter"
<hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you need Jesus?
I don't. Next question.....
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