Why do you need Jesus?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Truth Hunter"
Date: 19 Nov 2005 12:10:23 PM
Object: Why do you need Jesus?
Why do you need Jesus?
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org
Bumper Sticker
DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro=ADm his own
wrath!(Author unknown)=20
One God, father-son-ghost?
.

User: "Paul Duca"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 20 Nov 2005 02:10:53 AM
I think the question is...why do I have to pretend Jesus needs me?
Paul
.

User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 09:33:06 PM
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> suddenly spluttered:

Why do you need Jesus?

"Now, that I've - found Jesus (now that I've found Jesus)
I don't smoke dope no more (I don't smoke it no less, niether!)...."
Apologies to Alberto Y Los Trios Paranoias.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.

User: "Woden"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 01:36:35 PM
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1132402223.842234.306510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Why do you need Jesus?

Because a lot of priests and politicians and televangelists would be out of
money and out of jobs without the xian sheep buying into the myth.
(snip remainder)
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.

User: "Lion Of Judah"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 02:30:31 PM
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132402223.842234.306510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Why do you need Jesus?
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...

uhmm....worked out fine?
Deuteronomy:2:30: But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him:
for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that
he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
31: And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his
land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land.
32: Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at
Jahaz.
33: And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his
sons, and all his people.
34: And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men,
and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:
35: Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the
cities which we took.
The "God" of Israel is a murderer and a thief and LIAR because he certainly
isn't God at all.
That's why YOU, particularly YOU, need Jesus more than anyone else.
Luke:9:53: And they did not receive Jesus, because his face was as though he
would go to Jerusalem.
54: And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt
thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even
as Elias did?
55: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of
spirit ye are of.
Get yourself a real clue.
.
User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 04:45:50 PM
"Lion Of Judah" <sonofman1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-YKdnQP9UoSXquLeRVn-oQ@comcast.com...

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132402223.842234.306510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Why do you need Jesus?


How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...


uhmm....worked out fine?

Deuteronomy:2:30: But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him:
for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate,
that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
31: And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his
land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land.
32: Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at
Jahaz.
33: And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and
his sons, and all his people.
34: And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the
men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to
remain:
35: Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of
the cities which we took.

The "God" of Israel is a murderer and a thief and LIAR because he
certainly isn't God at all.

That's why YOU, particularly YOU, need Jesus more than anyone else.

Luke:9:53: And they did not receive Jesus, because his face was as though
he would go to Jerusalem.
54: And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt
thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even
as Elias did?
55: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of
spirit ye are of.

Get yourself a real clue.


Yep, sure worked out fine, didn't it.
.

User: "kathryn"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 02:58:10 PM
"Lion Of Judah" <sonofman1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-YKdnQP9UoSXquLeRVn-oQ@comcast.com...

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132402223.842234.306510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Why do you need Jesus?


How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...


uhmm....worked out fine?

Get yourself a real clue.


that it's all total *****?
.

User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 04:58:33 PM
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Lion Of Judah
(sonofman1@comcast.net) made the light shine upon us with this:

The "God" of Israel is a murderer and a thief and LIAR because he
certainly isn't God at all.

That's why YOU, particularly YOU, need Jesus more than anyone else.

And *that's* why you need the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.


User: "Bill Gamelson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 02:19:50 PM
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132402223.842234.306510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Why do you need Jesus?

How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?

Why are you cross-posting in alt.atheism?
.
User: "Neil Kelsey"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 21 Nov 2005 05:23:47 AM
Truth HUnter always cross posts in alt.atheism, and Truth Hunter never
replies.
.
User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 21 Nov 2005 02:06:01 PM
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132550627.894034.229960@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Truth HUnter always cross posts in alt.atheism, and Truth Hunter never
replies.

Truth Hunter is a troll.
The fact that Truth Hunter posts as if Truth Hunter were an interested
poster is bearing false witness.
Translation:
Truth Hunter is a liar and really isn't seeking any truth.
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 21 Nov 2005 03:43:43 PM
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:06:01 -0700, "Icono"
<overhere@overtherethere.com> wrote:


"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132550627.894034.229960@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Truth HUnter always cross posts in alt.atheism, and Truth Hunter never
replies.


Truth Hunter is a troll.
The fact that Truth Hunter posts as if Truth Hunter were an interested
poster is bearing false witness.
Translation:

Truth Hunter is a liar and really isn't seeking any truth.

What do expect from somebody with that kind of pretentious ID?
.




User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 02:01:18 PM
"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132402223.842234.306510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Why do you need Jesus?
How is it that the Israelites could pray directly to God and receive
his blessings, and that worked out just fine for thousands of
years...then suddenly God decided that people cannot talk to him
directly anymore but need an intercessor? Why not just pray to God
without going through Jesus? Will God smite you with boils if you do it
that way?
Is ignorance bliss?
No it is damnation.
The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father, not
Jesus.
To pray in the name of Jesus is not "through", nor is it a phrase to tag at
the end of a prayer.
"Truth Hunter" Truth is from wisdom, not ignorance.
.
User: "Bill Gamelson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 02:23:05 PM
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...


The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father, not
Jesus.

Can you tell me where the Bible contains this?
.
User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 02:32:15 PM
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XyGff.33337$0l5.9538@dukeread06...


"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...


The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.


Can you tell me where the Bible contains this?

THE N.T.
Also try and find where anyone addressed Jesus after His resurrection and
rising.
.
User: "Bill Gamelson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 03:28:52 PM
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:9HGff.5255$qw.4979@fed1read07...


The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.


Can you tell me where the Bible contains this?

THE N.T.

Where in the N.T.?
Chapter and verse please.


Also try and find where anyone addressed Jesus after His resurrection and
rising.

Matthew chapter 28
Mark chapter 16
Luke chapter 24
John chapter 20
.
User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 04:44:22 PM
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:CwHff.34003$0l5.22821@dukeread06...


"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:9HGff.5255$qw.4979@fed1read07...


The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.


Can you tell me where the Bible contains this?

THE N.T.


Where in the N.T.?

Chapter and verse please.

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and
glorify your Father who is in Heaven.
Matthew 6:8
Be not ye therefore like unto them, for your Father knoweth what things ye
have need of before ye ask Him.
Matthew 6:9
In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be
Thy name.
Matthew 6:9
In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be
Thy name.
Matthew 6:9
In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be
Thy name. >
Matthew 6:14
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also
forgive you.
Matthew 6:18
that thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father who is in secret;
and thy Father, who seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
1.. Matthew 10:32
"Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also
before My Father who is in Heaven.
Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My
Father who is in Heaven.
2.. Not to Jesus, but confessing that you believe in Him
Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah,
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father who is in
Heaven.
Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in Heaven that one of these
little ones should perish.
Matthew 20:23
And He said unto them, "Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized
with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on
My left is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is
prepared by My Father."
Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour, knoweth no man, no, not the angels of Heaven, but
My Father only.
Mark 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive if ye have aught against any, that your
Father also who is in Heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
John 4:21
Jesus said unto her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour cometh when ye shall
neither on this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the
Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do; for what
things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son,
John 5:30
"I can of Mine own self do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is
just, because I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father who hath
sent Me.
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me, and him that cometh to Me I
will in no wise cast out.
John 6:44
No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him; and I
will raise him up at the Last Day.
John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may
be glorified in the Son.
"IN" His name, not to or of Him.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye
should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain, that
whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it to you.
"IN" His name, not to or of Him.
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you
Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have
received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, "Abba! Father!"
Romans 15:6
that ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our
Lord Jesus Christ
Ephesians 1:17
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give
unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
Ephesians 2:18
for through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 3:14
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Ephesians 5:20
giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of
our Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 4:20
Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father by Him.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from
the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of
turning.
1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth
according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in
fear.
1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man
love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
The following sums up where Jesus comes in besides being equal.
1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father; he that
acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also
See John 5:7 in a real bible also.


Also try and find where anyone addressed Jesus after His resurrection and
rising.



Matthew chapter 28

Still on earth in a physical presence, not yet ascension

Mark chapter 16

Still on earth in a physical presence, not yet ascension

Luke chapter 24

Still on earth in a physical presence, not yet ascension

John chapter 20

Still on earth in a physical presence, not yet ascension





.
User: "Bill Gamelson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 05:27:13 PM
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:%CIff.5257$qw.3328@fed1read07...

The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father,
not Jesus.


Can you tell me where the Bible contains this?

THE N.T.


Where in the N.T.?

Chapter and verse please.

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you

This scripture supports my position.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and
glorify your Father who is in Heaven.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

Matthew 6:8
Be not ye therefore like unto them, for your Father knoweth what things ye
have need of before ye ask Him.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

Matthew 6:9
In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed
be Thy name.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

Matthew 6:9
In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed
be Thy name.
Matthew 6:9
In this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed
be Thy name. >

Matthew 6:14
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also
forgive you.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

Matthew 6:18
that thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father who is in
secret; and thy Father, who seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

1.. Matthew 10:32
"Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also
before My Father who is in Heaven.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My
Father who is in Heaven.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


2.. Not to Jesus, but confessing that you believe in Him
Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah,
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father who is
in Heaven.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in Heaven that one of
these little ones should perish.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Matthew 20:23
And He said unto them, "Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized
with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and
on My left is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it
is prepared by My Father."

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour, knoweth no man, no, not the angels of Heaven,
but My Father only.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Mark 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive if ye have aught against any, that your
Father also who is in Heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


John 4:21
Jesus said unto her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour cometh when ye shall
neither on this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, "Verily, verily I say unto you,
the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do; for
what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the
Son,

This scripture does not apply to your point.


John 5:30
"I can of Mine own self do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is
just, because I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father who
hath sent Me.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


John 6:37
All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me, and him that cometh to Me
I will in no wise cast out.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


John 6:44
No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him; and I
will raise him up at the Last Day.

This scripture does not apply to your point.

John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father
may be glorified in the Son.

This scripture supports my position.


John 15:16
Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye
should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain, that
whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it to you.

This scripture supports my position.


John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you

This scripture supports my position.


John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you

This scripture supports my position.


Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have
received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, "Abba! Father!"

Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father and
before there were any Christians.



Romans 15:6
that ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ

Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father and
before there were any Christians.


Ephesians 1:17
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may
give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Ephesians 2:18
for through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

This scripture supports my position.


Ephesians 3:14
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Ephesians 5:20
giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of
our Lord Jesus Christ,

This scripture supports my position.


Philippians 4:20
Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord
Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by Him.

This scripture supports my position.


James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from
the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of
turning.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth
according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in
fear.

This scripture does not apply to your point.


1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man
love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

This scripture does not apply to your point.




The following sums up where Jesus comes in besides being equal.
1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father; he that
acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also

This scripture supports my position.
I noticed that for some reason you failed to mention a very popular verse
that would kill your theory on contact.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father, but by me.
.
User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:15:04 PM
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AfJff.35164$0l5.24989@dukeread06...


"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:%CIff.5257$qw.3328@fed1read07...

The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the
Father, not Jesus.


Can you tell me where the Bible contains this?

THE N.T.


Where in the N.T.?

Chapter and verse please.

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you,
whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you

What part of "ask the Father" don't you understand?

I noticed that for some reason you failed to mention a very popular verse
that would kill your theory on contact.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no
man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No mention of praying to Jesus.
IN MY NAME
IN MY NAME
IN MY NAME
IN MY NAME
but by me
but by me
but by me
but by me
but by me
but by me
No mention of praying to Jesus.
The Father wont even hear anyone who does not pray in Jesus' name or believe
in Jesus or place Jesus as Lord or recognize Jesus as savior.
Jesus as well as the Holy Spirit intercedes in that the Father sees no evil
in us or any sin we do.
The Holy Spirit has to translate sometimes and then it is probably to keep
sinful intentions from the Father's ears.
Yes, three in one with separate functions.
Even your nonsensical answer of communication between Resurrection and
ascension, there were no prayers or "requests" in earnest.
.

User: "Machque"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 05:32:51 PM
"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father and
: before there were any Christians.
LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
User: "Tyrone Robinson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:00:29 PM
"Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:9LydnciLU5pB_OLenZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father and
: before there were any Christians.

LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!

Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my Bible.
.
User: "Bear"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:04:28 PM
"Tyrone Robinson" wrote
: "Machque" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father
and
: > : before there were any Christians.
: >
: > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
:
: Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my
Bible.
I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
Testament of his bible.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
User: "Icono"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:27:29 PM
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:KtOdna7Rur3b9OLeRVn-sg@comcast.com...

"Tyrone Robinson" wrote
: "Machque" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father
and
: > : before there were any Christians.
: >
: > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
:
: Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my
Bible.

I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
Testament of his bible.

It's called scriptural dislexia.


--
Bear

There but for circumstances go I.

Being an atheist isn't a choice or act of will - like theism; it's a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.


.
User: "Bill Gamelson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:38:50 PM
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message
news:G7Kff.6513$qw.1078@fed1read07...

: > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the Father
and
: > : before there were any Christians.
: >
: > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
:
: Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my
Bible.

I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
Testament of his bible.


It's called scriptural dislexia.

It was a test to see if you were paying attention. ;-()
.
User: "Bear"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:51:01 PM
"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Icono" wrote
: >> : > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the
Father
: >> and
: >> : > : before there were any Christians.
: >> : >
: >> : > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
: >> :
: >> : Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my
: >> Bible.
: >>
: >> I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
: >> Testament of his bible.
: >
: > It's called scriptural dislexia.
:
: It was a test to see if you were paying attention. ;-()
I don't believe that for a second. I believe that you are biblically
illiterate.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
User: "Bonnie Bitch"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 07:30:53 PM
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:51:01 -0500, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Bear"
<bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>

"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: "Icono" wrote
: >> : > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the
Father
: >> and
: >> : > : before there were any Christians.
: >> : >
: >> : > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
: >> :
: >> : Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my
: >> Bible.
: >>
: >> I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
: >> Testament of his bible.
: >
: > It's called scriptural dislexia.
:
: It was a test to see if you were paying attention. ;-()

I don't believe that for a second. I believe that you are biblically
illiterate.

Don't project, christstain.
May the Blessings of Gong Gong rain ubiquitously and reign supreme!
Rev. Bonnie *****, Universal Life Church
.
User: "Bear"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 07:37:20 PM
"Bonnie *****" wrote
: "Bear"
: >"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: >: "Icono" wrote
: >: >> : > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the
: >Father
: >: >> and
: >: >> : > : before there were any Christians.
: >: >> : >
: >: >> : > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
: >: >> :
: >: >> : Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in
my
: >: >> Bible.
: >: >>
: >: >> I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
: >: >> Testament of his bible.
: >: >
: >: > It's called scriptural dislexia.
: >:
: >: It was a test to see if you were paying attention. ;-()
: >
: >I don't believe that for a second. I believe that you are biblically
: >illiterate.
:
: Don't project, christstain.
You are confused.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn't a choice or act of will - like theism; it's a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.
User: "Bonnie Bitch"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 08:00:38 PM
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:37:20 -0500, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Bear"
<bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>

"Bonnie *****" wrote
: "Bear"
: >"Bill Gamelson" wrote
: >: "Icono" wrote
: >: >> : > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the
: >Father
: >: >> and
: >: >> : > : before there were any Christians.
: >: >> : >
: >: >> : > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
: >: >> :
: >: >> : Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in
my
: >: >> Bible.
: >: >>
: >: >> I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
: >: >> Testament of his bible.
: >: >
: >: > It's called scriptural dislexia.
: >:
: >: It was a test to see if you were paying attention. ;-()
: >
: >I don't believe that for a second. I believe that you are biblically
: >illiterate.
:
: Don't project, christstain.

You are confused.

Don't project, christstain.
May the Blessings of Gong Gong rain ubiquitously and reign supreme!
Rev. Bonnie *****, Universal Life Church
.





User: "Bear"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 06:31:10 PM
"Icono" wrote
: "Bear" wrote
: > "Tyrone Robinson" wrote
: > : "Machque" wrote
: > : > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the
Father
: > and
: > : > : before there were any Christians.
: > : >
: > : > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
: > :
: > : Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in my
: > Bible.
: >
: > I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
: > Testament of his bible.
:
: It's called scriptural dislexia.
That's one point of view. I call it biblical illiteracy.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
Being an atheist isn’t a choice or act of will — like theism; it’s a
consequence of what one knows and how one reasons.
.

User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 20 Nov 2005 03:01:23 AM
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Icono (Here@there.com) made
the light shine upon us with this:


"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:KtOdna7Rur3b9OLeRVn-sg@comcast.com...

"Tyrone Robinson" wrote
: "Machque" wrote
: > "Bill Gamelson" wrote
: > : Romans is in the Old Testiment, before Jesus was sent by the
: > : Father
and
: > : before there were any Christians.
: >
: > LOL!!! Now this is LAME!!!
:
: Jesus is mentioned umpteen times in Romans. Romans is in the NT in
: my
Bible.

I think Mr. Gamelson is the only person alive with Romans in the Old
Testament of his bible.


It's called scriptural dislexia.

No, I have Romans in the OT in my bible. Wait...
Oh, I must have put it back in the wrong place after I wiped my ***** with
it.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"GARGOYLES, PSYCHICS, EVERYTHING UNGODLY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY
HOUSE, IN JESUS NAME I PRAY. THE DARK SIDE, SHE's NOT A CHRISTIAN,
SHE'S DARK-SIDED, SHE'S DARK-SIDED, THIS IS MY HOUSE, I WANT MY GOD
AND I WANT MY FAMILY. I AM A GOD WARRIOR SHE'S A SPIRITUAL WARRIOR,
SHE WAS THROWN IN THE PITS, OH NO THE HORRORS"
Ain't Christianity great?
.










User: "Tyrone Robinson"

Title: Re: Why do you need Jesus? 19 Nov 2005 05:45:07 PM
"Icono" <Here@there.com> wrote in message news:8eGff.5251$qw.5227@fed1read07...



The bible is very specific that, as Christians, we pray to the Father, not
Jesus.

Oh really? Which Bible do you use?
Col 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ;
Php 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things
in earth, and things under the earth;
.



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