| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
07 Oct 2005 11:55:54 PM |
| Object: |
Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
7 Oct 2005
Douglas Kern
It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you think
it's true or not. Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant
Darwinism as the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human
life. ID will be taught in public schools as a matter of course. It
will happen in our lifetime. It's happening right now, actually.
Here's why:
1) ID will win because it's a religion-friendly, conservative-friendly,
red-state kind of theory, and no one will lose money betting on the
success of red-state theories in the next fifty to one hundred years.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Despite what angry ID opponents may tell you, the advent of ID won't
hurt American productivity a bit. Belief in ID does nothing to make
believers less capable in science or engineering. No geek in the world
will find his computer mojo diminished because of his opinions on
irreducible complexity. To the contrary: ID might make biology and the
natural sciences more appealing to believers who might otherwise find
science to be too far removed from God's presence. As ID appeals to the
conservative mindset without hurting anyone's skills, why wouldn't the
social right embrace it?
To be sure, believers don't need ID to accept modern science. The
Catholic Church, for example, made peace with traditional Darwinist
theory long ago. Many scientists see no contradiction between Darwinism
and their own religious beliefs. Rightly understood, Darwinist theory
doesn't diminish God's glory any more than any other set of rules
governing the world. An omnipotent God can act through scientific media
as well as miraculous interventions.
But if ID is correct, then the intelligent designer of life must have
lavished astonishing care and attention upon the human race to give it
unique dignity and value -- as well as handicaps and temptations that
only virtue can overcome. The God of Moses and Jesus didn't leave
fingerprints at this scene, but it's His MO all the way. And as
believers are detectives of the Almighty's presence, they're naturally
more inclined to follow the clues revealing that familiar pattern.
2) ID will win because the pro-Darwin crowd is acting like a bunch of
losers.
"Ewww...intelligent design people! They're just buck-toothed
Bible-pushing nincompoops with community-college degrees who're trying
to sell a gussied-up creationism to a cretinous public! No need to
address their concerns or respond to their arguments. They are Not
Science. They are poopy-heads."
There. I just saved you the trouble of reading 90% of the responses to
the ID position. Vitriol, condescension, and endless accusations of bad
faith all characterize far too much of the standard pro-Darwinian
response to criticism. A reasonable observer might note that many ID
advocates appear exceptionally well-educated, reasonable, and
articulate; they might also note that ID advocates have pointed out
many problems with the Darwinist catechism that even pro-Darwin
scientists have been known to concede, when they think the
Jesus-kissing crowd isn't listening. And yet, even in the face of a
sober, thoughtful ID position, the pro-Darwin crowd insists on the same
phooey-to-the-boobgeois shtick that was tiresome in Mencken's day. This
is how losers act just before they lose: arrogant, self-satisfied, too
important to be bothered with substantive refutation, and disdainful of
their own faults. Pride goeth before a fall.
3) ID will win because it can be reconciled with any advance that takes
place in biology, whereas Darwinism cannot yield even an inch of ground
to ID.
So you've discovered the missing link? Proven that viruses distribute
super-complex DNA proteins? Shown that fractals can produce
evolution-friendly three-dimensional shapes? It doesn't matter. To the
ID mind, you're just pushing the question further down the road. How
was the missing link designed? What is the origin of the viruses? Who
designed the fractals? ID has already made its peace with natural
selection and the irrefutable aspects of Darwinism. By contrast,
Darwinism cannot accept even the slightest possibility that it has
failed to explain any significant dimension of evolution. It must
dogmatically insist that it will resolve all of its ambiguities and
shortcomings -- even the ones that have lingered since the beginning of
Darwinism. The entire edifice of Darwinian theory comes crashing down
with even a single credible demonstration of design in any living
thing. Can science really plug a finger into every hole in the
Darwinian ***** for the next fifty years?
4) ID will win because it can piggyback on the growth of information
theory, which will attract the best minds in the world over the next
fifty years.
ID is a proposition about information. It contends that the processes
of life are so specific and carefully ordered that they must reflect
deliberate action. Put simply: a complex message implies an even more
complex sender. Separating ordered but random data from relevant,
purposeful data -- that is, separating noise from messages -- is one of
the key undertakings of the 21st century. In nearly every field, from
statistics to quantum physics to cryptology to computer science, the
smartest people on the planet are struggling to understand and apply
the unfathomable power of information that modern technology has
bequeathed to them. We have only scratched the surface of the
problem-solving power that the Internet and cheap computing power open
to us. As superior intellects strive to understand the metaphysics of
information, they will find the information-oriented arguments of ID
increasingly sensible and appealing. ID will fit nicely into the
emerging worldview of tomorrow's intellectual elite.
This emerging worldview will take a more expansive view of science than
does the current elite. Consider the "meme" meme. We all know what a
meme is: a thought pattern that spreads from person to person and group
to group like a viral infection spreading through a population. Yet
memes cannot be bisected, or examined under a microscope, or
"falsified" via the scientific method. Even so, we can make statements
about memes with varying degrees of objective truthfulness. Is it
possible to speak of a "science" of concepts? Right now, the scientific
establishment says no. This unhelpful understanding of science will
soon be discarded in favor of something more useful in the information
age.
5) ID will win because ID assumes that man will find design in life --
and, as the mind of man is hard-wired to detect design, man will likely
find what he seeks.
The human mind seeks order in everything. The entire body of knowledge
available to mankind reflects our incorrigible desire to analyze,
systemize, hypothesize, and theorize. It may well be that our brains
are physically configured in such a way that we can't help but find
order and design in the world. Don't look so surprised, evolutionists
-- a brain attuned to order and design is a brain more likely to
survive. The ability to detect design is essentially the ability to
detect patterns, and the ability to detect patterns is the key to most
applications of human intelligence. Hammers tend to find nails,
screwdrivers tend to find screws, and the human mind tends to find
design. Of course, the propensity to see designs doesn't mean that the
designs aren't actually there. But the quintessential human perception
is one of design -- and, to the extent that perceptions define reality,
a theory built on the perception of design has a huge advantage over
its competitors.
The only remaining question is whether Darwinism will exit gracefully,
or whether it will go down biting, screaming, censoring, and denouncing
to the bitter end. Rightly or wrongly, the future belongs to ID.
There's nothing irreducibly complex about it.
Douglas Kern is a lawyer and TCS contributor. To see another view of
the debate over ID, read "Descent of Man in Dover" by Sallie Baliunas
on TCS today.
.
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| User: "John Brockbank" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
09 Oct 2005 01:29:54 PM |
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< ID is a proposition about information. It contends that the processes
of life are so specific and carefully ordered that they must reflect
deliberate action. >
With respect to the man whom you quote, and who I am sure knows more about
ID than do I, that is not correct, in fact it is a subtle deliberate
misunderstanding of ID. The point about proponents of ID is that they say
that it is impossible for some parts of a living thing (eyes are usually
quoted) to have evolved. The reason for the impossibility is given as that
the part being used as the example is too complicated to have evolved. Note
there, what they usually say is that things are too complicated to have
arisen 'by 'chance' but I have used 'evolved' because it makes the meaning
clearer.
The problem with ID, though, is that proponents know that 'impossible' is
actually too strong a word and really the truth is that they consider it
unlikely that things can have evolved.
At this point it will be clear that what they are really saying is that they
believe in the idea of ID.
It is certainly true that people of a religious disposition will like the
word impossible because they like absolutes. In fact though, the whole
thing falls flat when it turns into evolution being merely unlikely.
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
09 Oct 2005 02:30:48 PM |
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"John Brockbank" <wagley@wagley.screaming.net> said:
< ID is a proposition about information. It contends that the processes
of life are so specific and carefully ordered that they must reflect
deliberate action. >
With respect to the man whom you quote, and who I am sure knows more about
ID than do I, that is not correct, in fact it is a subtle deliberate
misunderstanding of ID. The point about proponents of ID is that they say
that it is impossible for some parts of a living thing (eyes are usually
quoted) to have evolved. The reason for the impossibility is given as that
the part being used as the example is too complicated to have evolved. Note
there, what they usually say is that things are too complicated to have
arisen 'by 'chance' but I have used 'evolved' because it makes the meaning
clearer.
THis depends on the "brand" of ID being discussed. Certainly, the ID
that is being bandied about today says exactly what you say, because
it is presented as an *alternative* to evolution. A more inclusive
view of (lower case) intelligent design is espoused by the Catholic
Church which allows as evolution might be part of the intelligent
design. Of course, what they need to add is that evolution was
designed to arrive at beings that God would designate as proper
vessels for souls -- human beings.
The problem with ID, though, is that proponents know that 'impossible' is
actually too strong a word and really the truth is that they consider it
unlikely that things can have evolved.
At this point it will be clear that what they are really saying is that they
believe in the idea of ID.
It is certainly true that people of a religious disposition will like the
word impossible because they like absolutes. In fact though, the whole
thing falls flat when it turns into evolution being merely unlikely.
Right. There can be no room for provisional belief, in such theisms.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 10:23:04 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> said:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
7 Oct 2005
Douglas Kern
<...>
To be sure, believers don't need ID to accept modern science. The
Catholic Church, for example, made peace with traditional Darwinist
theory long ago. Many scientists see no contradiction between Darwinism
and their own religious beliefs. Rightly understood, Darwinist theory
doesn't diminish God's glory any more than any other set of rules
governing the world. An omnipotent God can act through scientific media
as well as miraculous interventions.
<...>
Douglas Kern makes a mistake (and contradicts another point he makes
earlier about Catholics) when he says that the Catholic Church doesn't
need ID to accept modern science. The scientific interpretation of the
emergence of humans by "random" variation and natural selection that
is circumstantial to the environment, has to be seen as "guided" or
"designed" specifically to arrive at humans, so it is not just a
matter of the physical universe happening to be what it is, and life
emerging from those circumstances, without guidance or design. It is
acceptable to the Church for Catholics to believe that God achieved
this end (made man in His own image) by means of evolution. But they
*do* need ID to accept modern science.
The Catholic Church, therefore, by being friendly to bit ID and
evolution, is an enemy (even while being seen as an ally) of those
pushing for ID to be taught as an alternative to evolution. This fact
proves that those backing ID as an *alternative* to evolution, are
nothing more than young-earth creationists.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 02:08:47 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if sucked you off, would
you?
Elf
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| User: "Gods Creator" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 02:55:49 AM |
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Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it sucked you off, would
you?
Elf
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Don't be so sure about the U.S. *Intelligence*
Bush *actually* got Re-Elected... did he not ?
GOD'S CREATOR
...That was my only sin... :(
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men challenge the unknown seeking more wisdom, others
fall on their hands and knees, close their eyes... and mumble...
Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
http://www.antiwar.com
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/
.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 04:37:44 AM |
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In article <9YK1f.11754$q1.7583@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Gods Creator <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote:
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it sucked you off, would
you?
Elf
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Don't be so sure about the U.S. *Intelligence*
Bush *actually* got Re-Elected... did he not ?
In a letter to the editor, a local fan of intellectualism wrote
"knowledgeable intelligence trumps arrogant stupidity."
I differ on that statement. I have observed that arrogant stupidity
often teams up with ignorant apathy to trump ANY sort of intelligence.
Such is the drawback of democracy.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.
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| User: "Gods Creator" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 01:16:52 PM |
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*nemo* wrote:
In article <9YK1f.11754$q1.7583@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Gods Creator <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote:
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it sucked you off, would
you?
Elf
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Don't be so sure about the U.S. *Intelligence*
Bush *actually* got Re-Elected... did he not ?
In a letter to the editor, a local fan of intellectualism wrote
"knowledgeable intelligence trumps arrogant stupidity."
I differ on that statement. I have observed that arrogant stupidity
often teams up with ignorant apathy to trump ANY sort of intelligence.
Such is the drawback of democracy.
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
TRUE!
And I have also observed that humans (and animals)
can be made *stupid and Apathetic* with hypnotism.
It is used on all soldiers, religious converts and
even T.V. commercials and by the big Concert performers.
Why people underestimate the *SCIENCE* of constant suggestion
is the nature of any type of hypnotizing process.
---> http://www.google.com/search?q=Hypnotism
It *SHOULD* be criminal for any adult to subject children
with VERY malleable minds, to hypnotism without the parents
knowledge and definitely their permission!
Would you believe, some NG people actually want to believe...
*I AM*
GOD'S CREATOR :)
...That was my only sin... :(
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men challenge the unknown seeking more wisdom, others
fall on their hands and knees, close their eyes... and mumble...
Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
http://www.antiwar.com
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
09 Oct 2005 07:05:28 AM |
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"Gods Creator" <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote in message
news:o2U1f.11537$QE1.5703@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
*nemo* wrote:
In article <9YK1f.11754$q1.7583@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Gods Creator <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote:
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it sucked you off, would
you?
Elf
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Don't be so sure about the U.S. *Intelligence*
Bush *actually* got Re-Elected... did he not ?
In a letter to the editor, a local fan of intellectualism wrote
"knowledgeable intelligence trumps arrogant stupidity."
I differ on that statement. I have observed that arrogant stupidity often
teams up with ignorant apathy to trump ANY sort of intelligence. Such is
the drawback of democracy.
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
TRUE!
And I have also observed that humans (and animals)
can be made *stupid and Apathetic* with hypnotism.
It is used on all soldiers, religious converts and
even T.V. commercials and by the big Concert performers.
Why people underestimate the *SCIENCE* of constant suggestion
is the nature of any type of hypnotizing process.
---> http://www.google.com/search?q=Hypnotism
It *SHOULD* be criminal for any adult to subject children
with VERY malleable minds, to hypnotism without the parents
knowledge and definitely their permission!
Would you believe, some NG people actually want to believe...
O, I believe (Dryclean Depot a dollar seventy-five)
O, I believe (Dryclean Depot a dollar seventy-five)
In by nine, out by five
Ninety-nine cents for laundered shirts
Try Dryclean Depot and you'll believe
Too.
.
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| User: "Gods Creator" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
09 Oct 2005 10:09:03 PM |
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Ike wrote:
"Gods Creator" <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote in message
news:o2U1f.11537$QE1.5703@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
*nemo* wrote:
In article <9YK1f.11754$q1.7583@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Gods Creator <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote:
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it sucked you off,
would
you?
Elf
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Don't be so sure about the U.S. *Intelligence*
Bush *actually* got Re-Elected... did he not ?
In a letter to the editor, a local fan of intellectualism wrote
"knowledgeable intelligence trumps arrogant stupidity."
I differ on that statement. I have observed that arrogant stupidity
often teams up with ignorant apathy to trump ANY sort of
intelligence. Such is the drawback of democracy.
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
TRUE!
And I have also observed that humans (and animals)
can be made *stupid and Apathetic* with hypnotism.
It is used on all soldiers, religious converts and
even T.V. commercials and by the big Concert performers.
Why people underestimate the *SCIENCE* of constant suggestion
is the nature of any type of hypnotizing process.
---> http://www.google.com/search?q=Hypnotism
It *SHOULD* be criminal for any adult to subject children
with VERY malleable minds, to hypnotism without the parents
knowledge and definitely their permission!
Would you believe, some NG people actually want to believe...
O, I believe (Dryclean Depot a dollar seventy-five)
O, I believe (Dryclean Depot a dollar seventy-five)
In by nine, out by five
Ninety-nine cents for laundered shirts
Try Dryclean Depot and you'll believe
Too.
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
You forgot to say;
Amen...
GOD'S CREATOR
...That was my only sin... :(
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men challenge the unknown seeking more wisdom, others
fall on their hands and knees, close their eyes... and mumble...
Todays U.S. Holy Wars News:
http://www.antiwar.com
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/
.
|
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
13 Oct 2005 06:33:54 PM |
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|
"Gods Creator" <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote in message
news:jXk2f.11662$vw6.4452@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Ike wrote:
"Gods Creator" <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote in message
news:o2U1f.11537$QE1.5703@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
*nemo* wrote:
In article <9YK1f.11754$q1.7583@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Gods Creator <I_forgot_@Go.Com> wrote:
Elf M. Sternberg wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> writes:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Wow. You wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it sucked you off,
would
you?
Elf
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
Don't be so sure about the U.S. *Intelligence*
Bush *actually* got Re-Elected... did he not ?
In a letter to the editor, a local fan of intellectualism wrote
"knowledgeable intelligence trumps arrogant stupidity."
I differ on that statement. I have observed that arrogant stupidity
often teams up with ignorant apathy to trump ANY sort of intelligence.
Such is the drawback of democracy.
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
TRUE!
And I have also observed that humans (and animals)
can be made *stupid and Apathetic* with hypnotism.
It is used on all soldiers, religious converts and
even T.V. commercials and by the big Concert performers.
Why people underestimate the *SCIENCE* of constant suggestion
is the nature of any type of hypnotizing process.
---> http://www.google.com/search?q=Hypnotism
It *SHOULD* be criminal for any adult to subject children
with VERY malleable minds, to hypnotism without the parents
knowledge and definitely their permission!
Would you believe, some NG people actually want to believe...
O, I believe (Dryclean Depot a dollar seventy-five)
O, I believe (Dryclean Depot a dollar seventy-five)
In by nine, out by five
Ninety-nine cents for laundered shirts
Try Dryclean Depot and you'll believe
Too.
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
You forgot to say;
Amen...
OK. Amen. And a few Halleluiahs.
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 07:52:04 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote in
news:1128747354.741482.318580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
7 Oct 2005
Douglas Kern
It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you think
it's true or not. Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant
Darwinism as the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human
life. ID will be taught in public schools as a matter of course. It
will happen in our lifetime. It's happening right now, actually.
Perhaps this is true in the short run. But, in those political venues
where ID "wins," science will slow down. The people electing the
politicians who enact legislation forcing high school teachers to lie to
children will pay the price of their evil desires IN CA$H. Because they
will have to import the biotechnology that their government has forbidden
their scientists to learn.
Oh, and don't really expect a lot of help from the RCC. If they play
your game at all it's because THEY want to be the theocrats.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
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| User: "Tim K." |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 07:38:21 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1128747354.741482.318580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
1) ID will win because it's a religion-friendly, conservative-friendly,
Except that George Bush is doing such a great job of fucking up everything
he touches that the pendulum will swing back a bit.
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| User: "Babylonian Dildoes" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
11 Oct 2005 01:42:25 AM |
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*****.
words of truth wrote:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
7 Oct 2005
Douglas Kern
It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you think
it's true or not. Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant
Darwinism as the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human
life. ID will be taught in public schools as a matter of course. It
will happen in our lifetime. It's happening right now, actually.
Here's why:
1) ID will win because it's a religion-friendly, conservative-friendly,
red-state kind of theory, and no one will lose money betting on the
success of red-state theories in the next fifty to one hundred years.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Despite what angry ID opponents may tell you, the advent of ID won't
hurt American productivity a bit. Belief in ID does nothing to make
believers less capable in science or engineering. No geek in the world
will find his computer mojo diminished because of his opinions on
irreducible complexity. To the contrary: ID might make biology and the
natural sciences more appealing to believers who might otherwise find
science to be too far removed from God's presence. As ID appeals to the
conservative mindset without hurting anyone's skills, why wouldn't the
social right embrace it?
To be sure, believers don't need ID to accept modern science. The
Catholic Church, for example, made peace with traditional Darwinist
theory long ago. Many scientists see no contradiction between Darwinism
and their own religious beliefs. Rightly understood, Darwinist theory
doesn't diminish God's glory any more than any other set of rules
governing the world. An omnipotent God can act through scientific media
as well as miraculous interventions.
But if ID is correct, then the intelligent designer of life must have
lavished astonishing care and attention upon the human race to give it
unique dignity and value -- as well as handicaps and temptations that
only virtue can overcome. The God of Moses and Jesus didn't leave
fingerprints at this scene, but it's His MO all the way. And as
believers are detectives of the Almighty's presence, they're naturally
more inclined to follow the clues revealing that familiar pattern.
2) ID will win because the pro-Darwin crowd is acting like a bunch of
losers.
"Ewww...intelligent design people! They're just buck-toothed
Bible-pushing nincompoops with community-college degrees who're trying
to sell a gussied-up creationism to a cretinous public! No need to
address their concerns or respond to their arguments. They are Not
Science. They are poopy-heads."
There. I just saved you the trouble of reading 90% of the responses to
the ID position. Vitriol, condescension, and endless accusations of bad
faith all characterize far too much of the standard pro-Darwinian
response to criticism. A reasonable observer might note that many ID
advocates appear exceptionally well-educated, reasonable, and
articulate; they might also note that ID advocates have pointed out
many problems with the Darwinist catechism that even pro-Darwin
scientists have been known to concede, when they think the
Jesus-kissing crowd isn't listening. And yet, even in the face of a
sober, thoughtful ID position, the pro-Darwin crowd insists on the same
phooey-to-the-boobgeois shtick that was tiresome in Mencken's day. This
is how losers act just before they lose: arrogant, self-satisfied, too
important to be bothered with substantive refutation, and disdainful of
their own faults. Pride goeth before a fall.
3) ID will win because it can be reconciled with any advance that takes
place in biology, whereas Darwinism cannot yield even an inch of ground
to ID.
So you've discovered the missing link? Proven that viruses distribute
super-complex DNA proteins? Shown that fractals can produce
evolution-friendly three-dimensional shapes? It doesn't matter. To the
ID mind, you're just pushing the question further down the road. How
was the missing link designed? What is the origin of the viruses? Who
designed the fractals? ID has already made its peace with natural
selection and the irrefutable aspects of Darwinism. By contrast,
Darwinism cannot accept even the slightest possibility that it has
failed to explain any significant dimension of evolution. It must
dogmatically insist that it will resolve all of its ambiguities and
shortcomings -- even the ones that have lingered since the beginning of
Darwinism. The entire edifice of Darwinian theory comes crashing down
with even a single credible demonstration of design in any living
thing. Can science really plug a finger into every hole in the
Darwinian ***** for the next fifty years?
4) ID will win because it can piggyback on the growth of information
theory, which will attract the best minds in the world over the next
fifty years.
ID is a proposition about information. It contends that the processes
of life are so specific and carefully ordered that they must reflect
deliberate action. Put simply: a complex message implies an even more
complex sender. Separating ordered but random data from relevant,
purposeful data -- that is, separating noise from messages -- is one of
the key undertakings of the 21st century. In nearly every field, from
statistics to quantum physics to cryptology to computer science, the
smartest people on the planet are struggling to understand and apply
the unfathomable power of information that modern technology has
bequeathed to them. We have only scratched the surface of the
problem-solving power that the Internet and cheap computing power open
to us. As superior intellects strive to understand the metaphysics of
information, they will find the information-oriented arguments of ID
increasingly sensible and appealing. ID will fit nicely into the
emerging worldview of tomorrow's intellectual elite.
This emerging worldview will take a more expansive view of science than
does the current elite. Consider the "meme" meme. We all know what a
meme is: a thought pattern that spreads from person to person and group
to group like a viral infection spreading through a population. Yet
memes cannot be bisected, or examined under a microscope, or
"falsified" via the scientific method. Even so, we can make statements
about memes with varying degrees of objective truthfulness. Is it
possible to speak of a "science" of concepts? Right now, the scientific
establishment says no. This unhelpful understanding of science will
soon be discarded in favor of something more useful in the information
age.
5) ID will win because ID assumes that man will find design in life --
and, as the mind of man is hard-wired to detect design, man will likely
find what he seeks.
The human mind seeks order in everything. The entire body of knowledge
available to mankind reflects our incorrigible desire to analyze,
systemize, hypothesize, and theorize. It may well be that our brains
are physically configured in such a way that we can't help but find
order and design in the world. Don't look so surprised, evolutionists
-- a brain attuned to order and design is a brain more likely to
survive. The ability to detect design is essentially the ability to
detect patterns, and the ability to detect patterns is the key to most
applications of human intelligence. Hammers tend to find nails,
screwdrivers tend to find screws, and the human mind tends to find
design. Of course, the propensity to see designs doesn't mean that the
designs aren't actually there. But the quintessential human perception
is one of design -- and, to the extent that perceptions define reality,
a theory built on the perception of design has a huge advantage over
its competitors.
The only remaining question is whether Darwinism will exit gracefully,
or whether it will go down biting, screaming, censoring, and denouncing
to the bitter end. Rightly or wrongly, the future belongs to ID.
There's nothing irreducibly complex about it.
Douglas Kern is a lawyer and TCS contributor. To see another view of
the debate over ID, read "Descent of Man in Dover" by Sallie Baliunas
on TCS today.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 08:25:03 AM |
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In <1128747354.741482.318580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "words of
truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Douglas Kern is a lawyer
Which gives him expertise in which sciences?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 08:22:51 AM |
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In <1128747354.741482.318580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "words of
truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Only in the US as we descend into irrelevant, third world status...
(At least we'll serve as a counter example)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB
.
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| User: "1954 Dead" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 09:56:01 AM |
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On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 08:22:51 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1128747354.741482.318580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "words of
truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Only in the US as we descend into irrelevant, third world status...
(At least we'll serve as a counter example)
More like a typical example. Christianianity has destroyed many great
nations from within, including Rome, Elizabethean England, 14th
century France, and of course all the cultures destroyed by
colonization in the 16th and 17th centuries.
--
"'I’m not meeting with that goddamned *****,' Bush screamed at aides
who suggested he meet with Cindy Sheehan, the war-protesting mother
whose son died in Iraq. 'She can go to hell as far as I’m concerned!'"
--Putsch, a decompensating drunk
"Grover Norquist couldn't drown the government, so he drowned New Orleans instead."
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_essays
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
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| User: "R.D. Heilman" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
16 Oct 2005 09:43:19 PM |
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"1954 Dead" <zepp1954#2211finestplanet.com@> wrote in message
news:cdnfk1dg7v4jsqs602p5qem4n5i2cqg2qp@4ax.com...
On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 08:22:51 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1128747354.741482.318580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "words of
truth" <wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
Only in the US as we descend into irrelevant, third world status...
(At least we'll serve as a counter example)
More like a typical example. Christianianity has destroyed many great
nations from within, including Rome, Elizabethean England, 14th
century France, and of course all the cultures destroyed by
colonization in the 16th and 17th centuries.
--
"'I'm not meeting with that goddamned *****,' Bush screamed at aides
who suggested he meet with Cindy Sheehan, the war-protesting mother
whose son died in Iraq. 'She can go to hell as far as I'm concerned!'"
--Putsch, a decompensating drunk
Didn't you just make this up? I think you did. This is not the language
Bush uses.
"Grover Norquist couldn't drown the government, so he drowned New Orleans
instead."
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/zepps_essays
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 11:11:17 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, words of truth poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/100705C.html
Why Intelligent Design Is Going to Win
7 Oct 2005
Douglas Kern
[ snip ]
A similar argument could be made for the Ptolemic geocentric system.
It was "religion friendly", it was favoured by the fecund, it doesn't
impact on productivity, it demonstrates that an "intelligent designer of
life must have lavished astonishing care and attention upon the human
race to give it unique dignity and value".
....
2) ID will win because the pro-Darwin crowd is acting like a bunch of
losers.
This "argument" didn't save the geocentric system, and it won't save ID.
One need only look at the theist posts in Usenet to see that
creationists and proponents of ID are quite capable of being losers.
....
3) ID will win because it can be reconciled with any advance that takes
place in biology, whereas Darwinism cannot yield even an inch of ground
to ID.
I'm sure that the geocentric system could be reconciled with most
developments in astronomy. But both ID and the geocentric theory need to
be reconciled with ALL scientific disciplines.
....
4) ID will win because it can piggyback on the growth of information
theory, which will attract the best minds in the world over the next
fifty years.
Biology is no stranger to information theory.
http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521802938
http://www.lecb.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/paper/trieste1996/
ID is a proposition about information. It contends that the processes
of life are so specific and carefully ordered that they must reflect
deliberate action. Put simply: a complex message implies an even more
complex sender.
LOL! All together now:
Who designed the complex designer?!!!
....
Regards,
Josef
Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent
design.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
08 Oct 2005 12:23:19 PM |
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On 7 Oct 2005 21:55:54 -0700, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you think
it's true or not. Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant
Darwinism as the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human
life. ID will be taught in public schools as a matter of course.
And Islam is destined to supplant Christianity as the dominant
religion in the West. What's your point?
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
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| User: "R.D. Heilman" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
16 Oct 2005 09:47:32 PM |
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"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:p10gk1d85lg73504ervp7oqfgg63rdmepc@4ax.com...
On 7 Oct 2005 21:55:54 -0700, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth21@lycos.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you think
it's true or not. Intelligent Design theory is destined to supplant
Darwinism as the primary scientific explanation for the origin of human
life. ID will be taught in public schools as a matter of course.
And Islam is destined to supplant Christianity as the dominant
religion in the West. What's your point?
Unfortunately, this is right, becuse the West does not recognize
the intent of Islam. Historically, from its beginning, Islam has
advanced its power through the "sword". Mohammid or the
sword was its rallying cry.
---
"This is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause"
- Padme Amidala, Episode III
.
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| User: "Jack May" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
17 Oct 2005 10:15:01 PM |
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"R.D. Heilman" <rdhsr@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7dE4f.20686$Yl.18505@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Unfortunately, this is right, becuse the West does not recognize
the intent of Islam. Historically, from its beginning, Islam has
advanced its power through the "sword". Mohammid or the
sword was its rallying cry.
A lot of people have a "Jesus gene" which makes them tend to be religious.
We already have the technology in the lab to turn gene's on and off.
Maybe we just propagate the mechanism to turn off the Jesus gene in the
Moslem world and they start drifting away from their fundamentalist culture.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
17 Oct 2005 10:19:32 PM |
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Jack May wrote:
A lot of people have a "Jesus gene" which makes them tend to be religious.
Present evidence of the existence of such a gene?
We already have the technology in the lab to turn gene's on and off.
Only in some cases.
Maybe we just propagate the mechanism to turn off the Jesus gene in the
Moslem world and they start drifting away from their fundamentalist culture.
You assume it ia a gene. It is realy a meme. There is no gene for being
a religious ***** zealot. There are cases of identical twins, one of
whom is a relegious ***** zealot and the other is not. So much for
genetics. Religions zealots are made by their upbringing and life
experience. Zealotry has a history.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
16 Oct 2005 09:49:48 PM |
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R.D. Heilman wrote:
Unfortunately, this is right, becuse the West does not recognize
the intent of Islam. Historically, from its beginning, Islam has
advanced its power through the "sword". Mohammid or the
sword was its rallying cry.
Before that happens we will nuke the motherfuckers. The Qaba will be the
aiming point of the first nuke sent over.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Kelo Disaster" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
16 Oct 2005 11:17:08 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3rghqfFjeuagU1@individual.net...
R.D. Heilman wrote:
Unfortunately, this is right, becuse the West does not recognize
the intent of Islam. Historically, from its beginning, Islam has
advanced its power through the "sword". Mohammid or the
sword was its rallying cry.
Before that happens we will nuke the motherfuckers. The Qaba will be the
aiming point of the first nuke sent over.
Damn straight.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Smith W" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
09 Oct 2005 12:35:07 AM |
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On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:55:54 -0700, words of truth wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Sounds like an argument for the eventual triumph of Islam. Their birth
rates are even higher, and they will inherit the world.
.
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| User: "R.D. Heilman" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
16 Oct 2005 09:50:14 PM |
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"Smith W" <smith.w@truth.gov.oc> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.10.09.05.35.00.198005@truth.gov.oc...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:55:54 -0700, words of truth wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Sounds like an argument for the eventual triumph of Islam. Their birth
rates are even higher, and they will inherit the world.
Islam does not forbid multiple wives, therefore, some Sultans have
dozens of offspring.
.
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| User: "Roger Johansson" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
09 Oct 2005 01:02:24 AM |
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Smith W wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Sounds like an argument for the eventual triumph of Islam. Their birth
rates are even higher, and they will inherit the world.
But there is a group which is growing even faster.
The intelligent people, the people who learn to think clearly and learn
to express themselves. They are buying computers and they learn to
handle a keyboard, they learn how to discuss with others.
They will be in power in the future.
It may look chaotic when hundreds of millions of people are learning to
think,
trying to shake off the mental bonds of religion, opression and
violence, but it will gradually clear up the thoughts of the new
collective intelligence which is composed of all indiviuals who
participate.
--
Roger J.
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| User: "R.D. Heilman" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
16 Oct 2005 09:53:10 PM |
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"Roger Johansson" <roger4911@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128836695.686136.187810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Smith W wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Sounds like an argument for the eventual triumph of Islam. Their birth
rates are even higher, and they will inherit the world.
But there is a group which is growing even faster.
The intelligent people, the people who learn to think clearly and learn
to express themselves. They are buying computers and they learn to
handle a keyboard, they learn how to discuss with others.
They will be in power in the future.
It may look chaotic when hundreds of millions of people are learning to
think,
trying to shake off the mental bonds of religion, opression and
violence,
When was the last instances of religious violance in the US? It doesn't
happen. If one must oppose religion it should not be done on ill-founded
charges and claims.
but it will gradually clear up the thoughts of the new
collective intelligence which is composed of all indiviuals who
participate.
--
Roger J.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
17 Oct 2005 08:24:33 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:53:10 -0400, in alt.atheism , "R.D. Heilman"
<rdhsr@bellsouth.net> in <piE4f.20689$Yl.12956@bignews4.bellsouth.net>
wrote:
[snip]
When was the last instances of religious violance in the US? It doesn't
happen.
Say what? I guess if you are not a gay person beaten up because
preachers (godhatesfags.com) say how evil they are, then you might not
notice. Or if you are not a Jew or atheists going to the Air Force
academy.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?T=18&m=3
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4671_12.htm
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/
All you have to do is pretend that the Klan and Aryan Nation and such
don't have a religious agenda.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
Genocide is news | Be A Witness
http://www.beawitness.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
www.darfurgenocide.org
Save Darfur.org :: Violence and Suffering in Sudan's Darfur Region
http://www.savedarfur.org/
.
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| User: "SeppoP" |
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| Title: Re: Why Intelligent Design Is Going To Win Over Darwinism |
17 Oct 2005 08:34:54 AM |
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R.D. Heilman wrote:
"Roger Johansson" <roger4911@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128836695.686136.187810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Smith W wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: families that reproduce
people tend to reproduce ideas, as well. The most vocal non-scientist
proponents of ID are those delightfully fertile Catholics,
Evangelicals, and similarly right-leaning middle-class college-educated
folk -- the kind whose children will inherit the country. Eventually,
the social right will have the sheer manpower to teach ID wherever they
please.
Sounds like an argument for the eventual triumph of Islam. Their birth
rates are even higher, and they will inherit the world.
But there is a group which is growing even faster.
The intelligent people, the people who learn to think clearly and learn
to express themselves. They are buying computers and they learn to
handle a keyboard, they learn how to discuss with others.
They will be in power in the future.
It may look chaotic when hundreds of millions of people are learning to
think,
trying to shake off the mental bonds of religion, opression and
violence,
When was the last instances of religious violance in the US? It doesn't
happen. If one must oppose religion it should not be done on ill-founded
charges and claims.
Do a google on "abortion clinic bombings".
Do another google on "religious violence in America".
You get the picture?
but it will gradually clear up the thoughts of the new
collective intelligence which is composed of all indiviuals who
participate.
--
Roger J.
--
Seppo P.
What's wrong with Theocracy? (a Finnish Taliban, Oct 1, 2005)
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