| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Zhav" |
| Date: |
18 Nov 2005 08:50:08 PM |
| Object: |
Why is atheism now on the march? |
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.’ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we’ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
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| User: "Milan" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
19 Nov 2005 09:01:58 AM |
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"Koi-LO" <Invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02...
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.’ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we’ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
No. God may be loving but suffer from Munchausen by proxy.
regards
Milan
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
19 Nov 2005 10:47:19 PM |
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"Koi-LO" <Invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02...
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.’ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we’ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man’s responsibility. It is like a patient who ignores
a doctor’s instructions, and then denies the existence of the doctor
because he is suffering. Or it is like a machinist who refuses to follow
the manufacturer’s advice, and then, when his tools do not function
properly, denies that the manufacturer exists. In such cases it would be
foolish to question the existence of a compassionate doctor or a skilled
manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the suffering and
trouble.
Why oh why can't some people see the invisible doctor or manufactuirer?
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| User: "Your Name Here=Harvey" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 08:39:49 PM |
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In article <rdTff.3083$N45.1458@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
accordiondocxyzxyzxyz@mindspring.com says...
"Koi-LO" <Invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02...
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.’ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we’ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man’s responsibility. It is like a patient who ignores
a doctor’s instructions, and then denies the existence of the doctor
because he is suffering. Or it is like a machinist who refuses to follow
the manufacturer’s advice, and then, when his tools do not function
properly, denies that the manufacturer exists. In such cases it would be
foolish to question the existence of a compassionate doctor or a skilled
manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the suffering and
trouble.
Why oh why can't some people see the invisible doctor or manufactuirer?
It is more plausible to believe your own eyes and senses - there is no God.
Rather than invent someone, speak for them - and that person (God) does not
appear.
Disasters happen because of nature, and of man's foolishness (compounding the
forces of nature).
Priests would have us believe in 'God' because it ensures they (the priests)
keep their occupation - that of speaking for God.
Non believers only ask - present this God, in this physical reality, and then,
we will believe in him, it, they (the priests) etc etc.
In the meantine please don't con us.
Harvey
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 11:13:02 PM |
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Your Name Here=Harvey wrote:
In article <rdTff.3083$N45.1458@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
accordiondocxyzxyzxyz@mindspring.com says...
"Koi-LO" <Invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02...
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.£ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we£ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn£t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man£s responsibility. It is like a patient who ignores
a doctor£s instructions, and then denies the existence of the doctor
because he is suffering. Or it is like a machinist who refuses to follow
the manufacturer£s advice, and then, when his tools do not function
properly, denies that the manufacturer exists. In such cases it would be
foolish to question the existence of a compassionate doctor or a skilled
manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the suffering and
trouble.
Why oh why can't some people see the invisible doctor or manufactuirer?
Nice post. That's what I like - common sense
It is more plausible to believe your own eyes and senses - there is no God.
Rather than invent someone, speak for them - and that person (God) does not
appear.
And we must consider not that one only god, but the thousands of others
to which this can also apply
Disasters happen because of nature, and of man's foolishness (compounding the
forces of nature).
Priests would have us believe in 'God' because it ensures they (the priests)
keep their occupation - that of speaking for God.
Yes, Was it not The Great Plague when we were dying like flies that the priests
when asked why said something like "It is the Lord punishing us for our sins"
And was it not man who discovered about three hundred years later what rally
cause these deaths?
Non believers only ask - present this God, in this physical reality, and then,
we will believe in him, it, they (the priests) etc etc.
In the meantine please don't con us.
[You have been watching Benny Hinn haven't you!]
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the
last priest."
[Denis Dioderot 1713-1784]
If priests had not been fond of mutton, lambs never would have been sacrificed to
god. Nothing was ever carried to the temple that the priest could not use, and it
always happened that god wanted what his agents liked."
[Robert G. Ingersoll]
Harvey
Bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong Kong
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| User: "Koi-lo" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
22 Nov 2005 01:43:04 AM |
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:4382A875.82CC102D@netvigator.com...
If priests had not been fond of mutton, lambs never would have been
sacrificed to
god. Nothing was ever carried to the temple that the priest could not use,
and it
always happened that god wanted what his agents liked."
[Robert G. Ingersoll]
===================
Like saving those young virgins for themselves when they slaughtered (on
god's say-so) entire cities, including all the animals and infants. The OT
is an interesting read. :-)
--
Expozem.......
http://silentlambs.org
www.freeminds.org
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
"
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| User: "jabriol" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 10:20:57 PM |
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Your Name Here=Harvey wrote:> It is more plausible to believe your own
eyes and senses - there is no God.
Rather than invent someone, speak for them - and that person (God) does not
appear.
Well that about shoot the american Congress and Senate in the keisher.
After all in the republic they speak for the people.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
22 Nov 2005 12:50:27 PM |
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On 21 Nov 2005 20:20:57 -0800, "jabriol" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote:
Your Name Here=Harvey wrote:> It is more plausible to believe your own
eyes and senses - there is no God.
Rather than invent someone, speak for them - and that person (God) does not
appear.
Well that about shoot the american Congress and Senate in the keisher.
After all in the republic they speak for the people.
Both the members of the US Congress and the people they represent are
visible. Your analogy makes no sense.
By the way, it is not "Congress and Senate"; the Senate is part of the
Congress, as is the House of Representatives.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "zir©on" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 03:50:30 PM |
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thomas p <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk>, wrote an article that went
like:
On 21 Nov 2005 20:20:57 -0800, "jabriol" <jabriol@hotmail.com> wrote:
snip the love
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
err,, Tom,, your posting is not "backwards compatible" <g>
...umm to explain, the jabbers ***** is largely trolling but you knew
that , right.
Thing is, the same ***** is setting the trolls at <rec.ponds>,
largely ineffective but still an annoyance for that list and the
Google archives.
I have asked posters to remove <rec.ponds> from responses and with the
exception of jabbers (under multiple personalities) the crowd has
largely been sympathetic, for which we are all very very grateful.
I am presuming you are unaware of jabbers 'practice' so here is a
heads up and a request to please join with the rest of the
"reasonable" community and cut <rec.ponds> from any responses
to posts from outside that group. Fair enough?
thanks :-)
--
zIR
response to:<fbi5o15sijph667m223o42qahrjacebvrh@4ax.com>
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| User: "Lars Eighner" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
18 Nov 2005 09:10:45 PM |
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In our last episode,
<5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02>,
the lovely and talented Koi-LO
broadcast on alt.atheism:
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.’ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we’ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man’s responsibility. It is like a patient who
ignores a doctor’s instructions, and then denies the existence of the
doctor because he is suffering. Or it is like a machinist who refuses to
follow the manufacturer’s advice, and then, when his tools do not
function properly, denies that the manufacturer exists. In such cases it
would be foolish to question the existence of a compassionate doctor or
a skilled manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the
suffering and trouble.
This supposes free will. But free will cannot co-exist with an
omniscient god. You have to part with one of the usual
attributes of super omni-everything gods. You cannot have all
three: all good, all creating, all knowing. You can have at
most two.
--
Rev. Lars Eighner, ULC http://www.larseighner.com/
The Mint Jelly of God® -- The World's Best Atheist -- Unholier Than Thou
First Church of Electro-Baptism ***Atheist #1965*** One Short Circuit to Jesus
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good."--Thomas Paine
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
19 Nov 2005 10:47:21 PM |
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"Lars Eighner" <usenet@larseighner.com> wrote in message
news:slrndnt618.2nm4.usenet@goodwill.io.com...
In our last episode,
<5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02>,
the lovely and talented Koi-LO
broadcast on alt.atheism:
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
"No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is 'atheistic.' Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact."
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: "I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we've had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn't make sense."
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man's responsibility. It is like a patient who
ignores a doctor's instructions, and then denies the existence of the
doctor because he is suffering. Or it is like a machinist who refuses to
follow the manufacturer's advice, and then, when his tools do not
function properly, denies that the manufacturer exists. In such cases it
would be foolish to question the existence of a compassionate doctor or
a skilled manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the
suffering and trouble.
This supposes free will. But free will cannot co-exist with an
omniscient god. You have to part with one of the usual
attributes of super omni-everything gods. You cannot have all
three: all good, all creating, all knowing. You can have at
most two.
How does blame presuppose free will? I can blame you even though you acted
involuntarily.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
19 Nov 2005 07:24:27 AM |
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Lars Eighner wrote:
This supposes free will. But free will cannot co-exist with an
omniscient god.
You have to part with one of the usual
attributes of super omni-everything gods. You cannot have all
three: all good, all creating, all knowing. You can have at
most two.
the world, and my religion is to do good."--Thomas Paine
Where does it say that God ,micro manage the cosmos?
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
20 Nov 2005 11:18:21 AM |
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On 19 Nov 2005 05:24:27 -0800, wrote:
Lars Eighner wrote:
This supposes free will. But free will cannot co-exist with an
omniscient god.
You have to part with one of the usual
attributes of super omni-everything gods. You cannot have all
three: all good, all creating, all knowing. You can have at
most two.
the world, and my religion is to do good."--Thomas Paine
Where does it say that God ,micro manage the cosmos?
The Bible. (ba boom bing)
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
20 Nov 2005 03:54:09 PM |
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stoney wrote:
On 19 Nov 2005 05:24:27 -0800, wrote:
Where does it say that God ,micro manage the cosmos?
The Bible. (ba boom bing)
where?
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 04:35:25 PM |
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On 20 Nov 2005 13:54:09 -0800, wrote:
stoney wrote:
On 19 Nov 2005 05:24:27 -0800, wrote:
Where does it say that God ,micro manage the cosmos?
The Bible. (ba boom bing)
where?
Divine Plan®
Omniscience®
Omnipotence®
Hardening Pharoh's heart multiple times.
1 Thess 5 verses 15-18
Those will do for a start.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
18 Nov 2005 11:05:34 PM |
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Lars Eighner wrote:
In our last episode,
<5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02>,
the lovely and talented Koi-LO
broadcast on alt.atheism:
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
“No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict sense of the
term, is ‘atheistic.’ Individuals may be atheists; but a people, never.
This universal belief is a tremendous fact.”
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a retired
Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last fall: “I
became an atheist very largely because of the terrible suffering of
Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it. How could an
all-loving God allow this to happen? And we’ve had two ghastly world
wars. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude, there
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man’s responsibility. It is like a patient who
ignores a doctor’s instructions, and then denies the existence of the
doctor because he is suffering. Or it is like a machinist who refuses to
follow the manufacturer’s advice, and then, when his tools do not
function properly, denies that the manufacturer exists. In such cases it
would be foolish to question the existence of a compassionate doctor or
a skilled manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the
suffering and trouble.
This supposes free will. But free will cannot co-exist with an
omniscient god. You have to part with one of the usual
attributes of super omni-everything gods. You cannot have all
three: all good, all creating, all knowing. You can have at
most two.
It's like the old saying : "Quality, Price, Service. Chose any two."
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
18 Nov 2005 10:44:26 PM |
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Koi-LO <Invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02:
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His
Creatures: "No people has ever been discovered which, in the strict
sense of the term, is 'atheistic.' Individuals may be atheists; but a
people, never. This universal belief is a tremendous fact."
is because of the unparalleled human suffering in the earth that many
persons question the existence of God. This was pointed out by a
retired Anglican medical missionary, Marian Sherman, who said last
fall: "I became an atheist very largely because of the terrible
suffering of Indian women who had never done anything to deserve it.
How could an all-loving God allow this to happen? And we've had two
ghastly world wars. It just doesn't make sense."
Not a few persons reason this way. A loving God, they feel, would not
allow human suffering; and since suffering exists, they conclude,
there must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to
mankind does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist.
Such a view overlooks entirely man's responsibility.
Man brough typhoid fever into the world? Earthquakes? Floods?
Just how has man done this?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for
religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
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| User: "zir©on" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
19 Nov 2005 09:00:14 AM |
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Koi-LO <Invalid@invalid.invalid>, wrote an article that went like:
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
snip the love
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
snip the love
a skilled manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the
suffering and trouble.
G'day Guys n Gals,
This thread has been cross posted across a number of groups.
Whilst the material posted may well be "topical " for the Groups now
in the Newsgroups Header the subject cannot be justified as topical
for a Group discussing Pond Management <rec.ponds>. unless there is
some demand fro advice on building/stocking a Font or other
ritualistic adornments for the chosen place of spiritual dogma :-}
The poster
Koi-LO <InvalidATinvalid.invalid>
JhemHaddarATgmail.com
Zhav <InvalidATinvalid.invalid>
Udderman <InvalidATinvalid.invalid>
is well identified as a UseNET abuser and identity thief who has
obviously poor skills in actioning an intended abusive attack.
The target of that abuse is the poster "Koi-lo"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> who signs posts as "Carol".
"Koi-lo" reads and posts into rec.ponds.
The poster has taken it upon himself to invoke a crusade of abuse
towards "Carol", and that abuse is spilling over into rec.ponds.
The "cute" tactic is to steal identities and attempt to confuse the
reader. There are several posts in rec.ponds right now that well
demonstrate the lame attempt at stealing my <zir©on> identity. This
poster is repeating what *it* thinks works in confusing people.
The author of this post is the creator of the <zir©on> identity.
A genuine post from me has some unique identifiers
that *no one* can mimic.
I do not worry about the theft of the identity as it is very obvious
at a glance the posts are lame forgeries, however I am concerned that
this Cross-posting (X-posting) of abusive/OT posts continues into
rec.ponds,, as it is read in your home Group with you simply doing
"RET" and typing away..
You can help in two ways by eliminating rec.ponds as a target in your
responses.
1. The SPAM will decrease in rec.ponds - has to be a good thing for
any Group?
2.The abusers will soon realize the work is not having the desired
effect - that could lead to the abuse stopping or at least abating
somewhat.
To help, simply remove "rec.ponds" from the newsgroup line in your
posts.
Thanks for what you can do...and stay well :-)
--
zIR
response to:<5rwff.344$NN2.147@trnddc02>
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| User: "zir©on" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
24 Feb 2006 08:19:17 AM |
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zir©on <zir©on@hård.røck.pond>, wrote an article that went like:
Koi-LO <Invalid@invalid.invalid>, wrote an article that went like:
Zhav wrote:
Philosopher Celestine N. Bittle wrote in his book God and His Creatures:
snip the love
must not be a God who is loving. Is this conclusion justified?
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
snip the love
a skilled manufacturer. The individual himself is to blame for the
suffering and trouble.
G'day Guys n Gals,
This thread has been cross posted across a number of groups.
Whilst the material posted may well be "topical " for the Groups now
in the Newsgroups Header the subject cannot be justified as topical
for a Group discussing Pond Management <rec.ponds>. unless there is
some demand fro advice on building/stocking a Font or other
ritualistic adornments for the chosen place of spiritual dogma :-}
The poster
Koi-LO <InvalidATinvalid.invalid>
JhemHaddarATgmail.com
Zhav <InvalidATinvalid.invalid>
Udderman <InvalidATinvalid.invalid>
is well identified as a UseNET abuser and identity thief who has
obviously poor skills in actioning an intended abusive attack.
The target of that abuse is the poster "Koi-lo"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> who signs posts as "Carol".
"Koi-lo" reads and posts into rec.ponds.
The poster has taken it upon himself to invoke a crusade of abuse
towards "Carol", and that abuse is spilling over into rec.ponds.
The "cute" tactic is to steal identities and attempt to confuse the
reader. There are several posts in rec.ponds right now that well
demonstrate the lame attempt at stealing my <zir©on> identity. This
poster is repeating what *it* thinks works in confusing people.
The author of this post is the creator of the <zir©on> identity.
A genuine post from me has some unique identifiers
that *no one* can mimic.
I do not worry about the theft of the identity as it is very obvious
at a glance the posts are lame forgeries, however I am concerned that
this Cross-posting (X-posting) of abusive/OT posts continues into
rec.ponds,, as it is read in your home Group with you simply doing
"RET" and typing away..
You can help in two ways by eliminating rec.ponds as a target in your
responses.
1. The SPAM will decrease in rec.ponds - has to be a good thing for
any Group?
2.The abusers will soon realize the work is not having the desired
effect - that could lead to the abuse stopping or at least abating
somewhat.
To help, simply remove "rec.ponds" from the newsgroup line in your
posts.
Thanks for what you can do...and stay well :-)
First published on Sun, 20 Nov 2005 00:30:14 +0930,
I stand by all I have said above with this significant exception.
I have just returned from annual leave to find what is very likely the
forger mentioned above making free use of the <zir©on> identity using
Google to spread the germs from. I created <zir©on> specifically to
assist Carol in what I did believe was a genuine case of real need for
help.
I make this post only to get the record corrected on Deja/Google.
As said in the post quoted:
The author of this post is the creator of the <zir©on> identity.
A genuine post from me has some unique identifiers
Whomsoever the lame GoogleGroups identity is, they are welcome to the
<zir©on> identity. I abandon any use of it as the purpose it was
created for is no longer valid.
I am now convinced Carol is much more than a "dumb ***** obsessed old
dragon of low computer IQ". I and others have shown her clear pathways
out of what appears to be the mess of someone's else's doing.
Still today that poster refuses any assistance that does not meet
her(?) agenda. The "mess" is not entirely Carol's creation but it is
her mission.
I repeat again, Carol is not the person named as Carolyn Gulley.
I have ample evidence to indicate the person posting as Carol is
merely a sophisticated , well groomed Troll.
That poster is not operating alone as I am also privy to information
that says there is one other assisting,... in the true Meow Meow Army
tradition.
Play with them as you will. No business of mine.
I also put a completely unconditional apology to:
Vance Liscomb <Vance_member@newsguy.com>
for using my skills in putting his posts (and argument) through the
blender. I was not as informed as I believed and therefore an apology
is in order. I am truly sorry if anything posted caused you any real
angst Vance. I do not agree with your beliefs but I do respect your
right to hold them. I hope I never indicated otherwise to you.
As I initially got involved in this supposed flame war to attempt to
salvage what was left of rec.ponds I should also offer an
unconditional apology to those loyal long suffering members of
rec.ponds.
I am truly sorry if my work caused any genuine member any disruption
in their reading of that Group.
Today I can only advise you all to move to another Group, being very
careful how you publicize the move. Alternatively you could get
together and organize a moderated Group, difficult but possibly the
best long term solution in keeping Trolls of Carols ilk well away from
normal peoples discussion. The traffic is not large so a shared
moderation would not prove an onerous task, I am sure.
As some solace for those feeling completely frustrated I can tell you
that SysOps from all the providers I contacted during my "campaign"
did eventually prove cooperative. This is the single reason why the
Jabriol poster is now using Google to post from. That can be stopped
to, with well structured organized complaint. I wish you well.
Likewise for avenues Carol continues to seek out.
For all the "hangers on", I say to you, if you have nothing better to
do with your time, than have at it. Carol can do this till the day
she(?) is shut down or carried off by her(?) God's will. Should you
entertain any thought Carol retains even one micron of genuine concern
(for anything), forget it. The poster is "paper mache", rolling in the
aisles with each response, guaranteed.
I bid you all , adieu.
--
zIR
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| User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus" |
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| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
18 Nov 2005 09:19:22 PM |
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Koi-LO wrote:
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man's responsibility.
Like the responsibility of those tsunami victims to get the ***** out of
the way. Like the responsiblility of Plague victims to not bleed out
of their orifices. Like that.
Praise God.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
20 Nov 2005 11:21:24 AM |
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On 18 Nov 2005 19:19:22 -0800, "Santolina chamaecyparissus"
<santolina@juno.com> wrote:
Koi-LO wrote:
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man's responsibility.
Like the responsibility of those tsunami victims to get the ***** out of
the way. Like the responsiblility of Plague victims to not bleed out
of their orifices. Like that.
Praise God.
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
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| User: "Expozem" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
20 Nov 2005 07:47:53 PM |
|
|
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:r3c1o1hor5mscssop1kt3h55chgh43fo2r@4ax.com...
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
=====================
You got that right! Someone send me this little gem. I don't know who to
give credit to - I didn't write it.
Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah
The following is a very SHORT list of sadistic acts that are commanded,
allowed, or threatened by God and his "righteous" men. All of these verses
can be found in the Torah. (which are the first five books of the Bible.)
I have put them in chronological order so that you may verify them as you
read along. (Keep in mind that the scriptures literally have an atrocity on
every other page. So this list will keep evolving as I work through the
Pentateuch yet again. To compile a full list may take months, so feel free
to check back in later.) God entraps humans by placing the tree of
knowledge in the garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it. This is
rather similar to placing a toy in front of a child and telling them they
are not allowed to play with it. God created us with instinct, rebellion,
and curiosity. Soon he punishes us for only doing what is part of our
nature. Genesis 2:16.47
God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve
ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the
sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16
God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no
attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel's death.
Genesis 4:3-5
Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the
planet save eight of them.
God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master
though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9
Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included)
simply because they were supposedly homosexual.
Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the
Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn't give us this bit of
information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7
Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister
in law.
Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will next
visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the Israelites to be
set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also repeatedly) that he will
harden Pharaoh's heart, so that he will refuse to allow the Israelites to
go, thus bringing a calamity upon his own people, as well as showing him the
awesome power of the Israelites' Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing
calamity upon calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about
this verse is that when god "hardens the pharaoh's heart" he is interfering
with the Pharaoh's free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the
Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final punishment
god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord reduced himself
to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply freed the Israelites
himself with his "omnipotent" power.
God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be
carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6
God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another
to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus 21:7
Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone who
practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for the
Inquisition.
Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime
than worshipping a golden calf. I don't know about you but death is a
pretty harsh fucking punishment.
Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and death
for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population should be almost
nil by now.
Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus
20:13
Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23
Leviticus 26:30 "And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of
your daughters shill ye eat."
Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.
Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.
Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses'
leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until he was
talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who thought there
was something wrong in killing 250 princes.
Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a favor to
the Jews.
Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites at
Heshbon - ".the men, the women, and the little ones."
Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people
including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be
saved for later raping by Moses' soldiers.
Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses' army to "utterly destroy" 60 cities,
killing all the women and children within!
Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven
nations. He even adds, "show no mercy unto them".
Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the
cities that he gives us for an inheritance
A ***** can't attend church "even to his tenth generation." As if denying
an innocent child rights to worship isn't cruel. Deuteronomy 23:2
.
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| User: "robpar" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 11:24:59 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:47:53 -0600, "Expozem"
<expoze-evil@theWatchtowers.net> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:r3c1o1hor5mscssop1kt3h55chgh43fo2r@4ax.com...
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
=====================
You got that right! Someone send me this little gem. I don't know who to
give credit to - I didn't write it.
Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Check it out, when quoting the site copy the U.R.L. in your post.
.
|
|
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| User: "Expozem" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 12:52:25 PM |
|
|
"robpar" <robpar@airmaildelete.net> wrote in message
news:db04o11df24gv2qnq4ag94lhr5619ns54c@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:47:53 -0600, "Expozem"
<expoze-evil@theWatchtowers.net> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:r3c1o1hor5mscssop1kt3h55chgh43fo2r@4ax.com...
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
=====================
You got that right! Someone send me this little gem. I don't know who to
give credit to - I didn't write it.
Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Check it out, when quoting the site copy the U.R.L. in your post.
=========================
Thank you. :-)
Expozem......
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:56:15 -0600, (Boydette) wrote:
What its like to be "mind controlled"all your life???? I thought this
was a support group for people damaged by the JWs teachings??......I am
a classic example...learn from me....Boydette
===================================
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 05:18:28 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:47:53 -0600, "Expozem"
<expoze-evil@theWatchtowers.net> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:r3c1o1hor5mscssop1kt3h55chgh43fo2r@4ax.com...
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
=====================
You got that right! Someone send me this little gem. I don't know who to
give credit to - I didn't write it.
Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah
The following is a very SHORT list of sadistic acts that are commanded,
allowed, or threatened by God and his "righteous" men. All of these verses
can be found in the Torah. (which are the first five books of the Bible.)
I have put them in chronological order so that you may verify them as you
read along. (Keep in mind that the scriptures literally have an atrocity on
every other page. So this list will keep evolving as I work through the
Pentateuch yet again. To compile a full list may take months, so feel free
to check back in later.) God entraps humans by placing the tree of
knowledge in the garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it. This is
rather similar to placing a toy in front of a child and telling them they
are not allowed to play with it. God created us with instinct, rebellion,
and curiosity. Soon he punishes us for only doing what is part of our
nature. Genesis 2:16.47
For following the script.
God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for Eve
ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay for the
sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16
Things are whatever 'God' says they are, even though 'he' talks out of
both sides of his mouth.
Deuteronomy 24 (KJV)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the
children, neither shall the children be put to
death for the fathers: every man shall be put
to death for his own sin.
2 Kings 14 (KJV)
6 But the children of the murderers he slew not:
according unto that which is written in the book
of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded,
saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for
the children, nor the children be put to death for
the fathers; but every man shall be put to death
for his own sin.
But then Christians *cannot* sin.
1 John 3 (kjv)
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not
seen him, neither known him.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Jesus is the Devil. No lesser an 'authority' than the Bronze age Book
of Babbling ***** decrees.
1 John 3 (kjv)
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from
the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he
might destroy the works of the devil.
Sucks for Christians.
God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely no
attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel's death.
Genesis 4:3-5
Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the
planet save eight of them.
God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master
though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9
Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included)
simply because they were supposedly homosexual.
No, for the crime of inhospitality.
[snip the rest as Christians don't pay attention to their own damned
book]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
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| User: "Expozem" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 07:52:53 PM |
|
|
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:ovi4o1hfs61j28q957h1g03l826v2njkok@4ax.com...
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the
children, neither shall the children be put to
death for the fathers: every man shall be put
to death for his own sin.
=============
Yet Jehovah had whole cities "put to death" because they believed
differently. He had them BASH the infants to death on rocks no less - a
most sadistic way to murder babies and small children - for the sins of
their parents.
--
Expo.....
Subject: The (NON) Qualifications Of The Translators Of The NWT
Fred Franz: 2 Credit Hours Bible Greek, 21 Credit Hours Classical Greek,
University of Cincinnati, Dropped out junior year.
Nathan Knorr: None
Milton Henschel: None
Albert Schroeder: None
Karl Klein: None
George Gangas: None
~~~ }<(((({O> ~~~ }<{{{{(o> ~~~ }<(((({0> ~~~ }<{{{{{(ô> ~~~
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
22 Nov 2005 11:35:21 AM |
|
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:52:53 -0600, "Expozem"
<expoze-evil@theWatchtowers.net> wrote:
"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:ovi4o1hfs61j28q957h1g03l826v2njkok@4ax.com...
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the
children, neither shall the children be put to
death for the fathers: every man shall be put
to death for his own sin.
=============
Yet Jehovah had whole cities "put to death" because they believed
differently. He had them BASH the infants to death on rocks no less - a
most sadistic way to murder babies and small children - for the sins of
their parents.
The usual 'blame the victims' and hypocrisy.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
20 Nov 2005 03:56:16 PM |
|
|
stoney wrote:
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
really? is that in the bible too?
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
21 Nov 2005 04:36:00 PM |
|
|
On 20 Nov 2005 13:56:16 -0800, wrote:
stoney wrote:
'God' loves blood, burning flesh, rape, torture, and abject misery.
really? is that in the bible too?
Yes.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
19 Nov 2005 07:29:29 AM |
|
|
Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
Koi-LO wrote:
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man's responsibility.
Like the responsibility of those tsunami victims to get the ***** out of
the way. Like the responsiblility of Plague victims to not bleed out
of their orifices. Like that.
Praise God.
sort of like 9/11 If only 3,000 people would have called in sick that
day.
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Why is atheism now on the march? |
20 Nov 2005 11:21:46 AM |
|
|
On 19 Nov 2005 05:29:29 -0800, wrote:
Santolina chamaecyparissus wrote:
Koi-LO wrote:
The existence of wickedness and the suffering it has brought to mankind
does not arbitrarily rule that a God of love does not exist. Such a view
overlooks entirely man's responsibility.
Like the responsibility of those tsunami victims to get the ***** out of
the way. Like the responsiblility of Plague victims to not bleed out
of their orifices. Like that.
Praise God.
sort of like 9/11 If only 3,000 people would have called in sick that
day.
'God' said; "No."
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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