| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"horseman" |
| Date: |
08 Jan 2005 08:40:16 AM |
| Object: |
Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
Austin American-Statesman
January 08, 2005
Threatening senators over judicial choices was a political blunder
EDITORIAL BOARD
A major volley has been fired in the long war over President Bush's
anticipated appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court.
A powerful social conservative recently threatened six Democratic
senators with election defeat if they opposed conservative nominees to
the Supreme Court. James Dobson, founder of the evangelical
organization Focus on the Family, named six "red state" senators he
promised to target if they didn't back Bush appointees.
Dobson was not only misguided in threatening the senators, he crossed
the line between free speech and politicking. His organization's
nonprofit status prohibits it from partisan political activity, in
which Dobson clearly is engaging. Dobson and Focus on the Family
deserve the same tax-status scrutiny the Internal Revenue Service has
levied on other nonprofits allegedly involved in political activity.
Last fall, the IRS announced it would investigate the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People for possible
violations of the ban on politicking because of statements Chairman
Julian Bond made opposing Bush's re-election. The IRS must hold
Dobson's group to the same standard applied to the NAACP.
Dobson, who boasts more than a million supporters, obviously doesn't
grasp either the importance of an independent judiciary or the advise
and consent role of the Senate. Both are vitally important in a
constitutional democracy, and smart political forces understand and
respect that.
Supreme Court Chief Justice William Rehnquist recently made a point
about the importance of an independent judiciary in his annual report
on the federal courts. Rehnquist is no bleeding-heart liberal, but he
sees clearly the danger of the influence of partisan politics on
judges.
"For side-by-side with the broad authority of Congress to legislate
and gather information . . . is the principle that federal judges are
not to be removed from office for their judicial acts," Rehnquist
wrote. "The subject matter of the questions Congress may pose about
judges' decisions, and whether they target the judicial decisions of
individual federal judges, could appear to be an unwarranted and
ill-considered effort to intimidate individual judges in the
performance of their judicial duties."
Maintaining an independent judiciary is fundamental to the separation
of powers set forth in the Constitution. Forcing judges to adhere to a
political position rips at the constitutional framework that binds
this nation. That is what Dobson and others - both liberal and
conservative - do when they demand that senators toe a political line
on judicial appointments or face their wrath and defeat at the polls.
There is a fine line between advocacy and partisanship. Every
nonprofit group with a tax-exemption has the right to be critical of
the government, but not the right to be active in political campaigns.
Dobson's blunder into electoral politics not only looks illegal, it
also subverts the idea of an independent judiciary and the separation
of powers essential to American democracy.
=========================
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| User: "Larry Heath" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 09:47:01 AM |
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"horseman" <nop@A-1.com> wrote in message
news:24svt055p8sjhus12cen5plgb2dqfl470u@4ax.com...
Austin American-Statesman
January 08, 2005
Threatening senators over judicial choices was a political blunder
EDITORIAL BOARD
A major volley has been fired in the long war over President Bush's
anticipated appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Big snip.
Dobson's blunder into electoral politics not only looks illegal, it
also subverts the idea of an independent judiciary and the separation
of powers essential to American democracy.
=========================
This is hardly a big surprise!
The whole Bush administration is built on this type of nonsense, well, I
suppose it's not really nonsense it works for the Bush administration very
well. It is the religious right's attempt to force their thinking, on all
the rest of the people here in the United States, and the rest of the world
for that matter, whatever their thoughts on religion are, be they Christian
of whatever sect, be they Moslem, be they Jewish, be they Hindu, be they
Confucianist, be they atheist. We're all in the same boat with respect to
this group of fanatic religious bigots, destroying our rights in this
country. This is exactly the reason the framers and founding fathers fought
so hard for separation of church and state. This is precisely why the 40%
of the people of these United States, that did not vote in the current
election cycle, need to wake up and realize that their rights are going to
be taken away from them. They're going to be told what to do, when to do
it, how to do it, where to do it, and which God they prey to. Mark me, they
will be considered enemies of the state if they don't pray to the God chosen
by our theocratic leaders. In what is obviously becoming a theocratic
state. Even if these nonparticipants believe in some other God of their
choice, or no God at all.
Doesn't this begin to sound very much like the Afghan theocratic government.
Later Larry
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| User: "MrPepper11" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:10:12 AM |
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Because the IRS works for "the United States of America and its people"
- not the Treasury Department and their boss in the White House. NOT.
"With the consent of the senate, I will no longer represent only the
White House. I will represent the United States of America, and its
people." - Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General nominee testifying before
the Senate Judiciary Committee, January 6, 2005.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 02:44:16 PM |
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On 8 Jan 2005 09:10:12 -0800, "MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> said in
alt.atheism:
Because the IRS works for "the United States of America and its people"
- not the Treasury Department and their boss in the White House. NOT.
"With the consent of the senate, I will no longer represent only the
White House. I will represent the United States of America, and its
people." - Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General nominee testifying before
the Senate Judiciary Committee, January 6, 2005.
Meaning that he's changing jobs from White House Council to Attorney
General. That has nothing to do with the focus of the IRS.
--
"Christianity has already had the chance to govern
the world according to its own ethical standards.
It was called the "Dark Ages".
- Bill, The Avender
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:35:01 AM |
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Larry Heath wrote:
...
This is hardly a big surprise!
The whole Bush administration is built on this type of nonsense, well, I
suppose it's not really nonsense it works for the Bush administration very
well. It is the religious right's attempt to force their thinking, on all
the rest of the people here in the United States...This is precisely why the 40%
of the people of these United States, that did not vote in the current
election cycle, need to wake up and realize that their rights are going to
be taken away from them. They're going to be told what to do, when to do
it, how to do it, where to do it, and which God they prey to. Mark me, they
will be considered enemies of the state if they don't pray to the God chosen
by our theocratic leaders. In what is obviously becoming a theocratic
state. Even if these nonparticipants believe in some other God of their
choice, or no God at all.
Doesn't this begin to sound very much like the Afghan theocratic government.
Later Larry
Isn't that the tragedy of a powerful government? It imposes the values
of some on others. Whether the religioius right or the secular left or
the religious left does it the results is still imposing tyranny.
Wasn't America supposed to be about voluntary agreement instead of
forced obedience?
Isn't it high time to join The Resistance?
http://www.ny.lp.org/choice
----
"
In crafting the Bill of Rights, the framers were careful to acknowledge
implicitly and explicitly two key truths:
The first is that government does not grant rights it acknowledges them.
They exist independently of government. They're part of who and what we
are. And, as Jefferson noted in the Declaration of Independence, the
only legitimate function of government is to secure them.
The second is that government is a servant to whom we delegate powers,
not a master who dispenses privileges. The Constitution carefully
enumerates the powers we, the people, delegate to our government and it
specifically denies that government any powers not so delegated. Our
rights lie beyond the pale of that delegation. They are sacrosanct. Any
government which infringes upon them is engaged in an intolerable
usurpation.
"
www.badnarik.org
-----
It was another close election. We find ourselves warring against each
other - - red states and blue; 'them against us'; Left vs. Right;
Republicans vs. Democrats. These forces are just about equal. Each seeks
to take, keep and expand the power to impose values on the other.
Campaign finance laws not withstanding, this election cost much more
than the last. Both sides spent as if in combat and more than many
countries spend on a real war. All else -- other ideas for example -- is
a distraction we can no longer afford in this new war between Americans.
Win at all cost! Tons of money, advertising campaigns, phone banks,
promises, defections, Get out the vote battalions, voter registration
shenanigans, vote fraud, hoards of pollsters, and armies of lawyers have
become our new reality. Except for that other war, the media covered
little else and ignored other candidates.
Why is an election so important? Is it because so much power has never
been so concentrated in so few? If power corrupts, what has happened to
our perspective? Cant there be more colors than just red or blue? We
keep getting evidence that politics as usual is dysfunctional. So why do
we allow ourselves to see no other choices? Is choice even possible
without diversity? What do you have when you have no choice? Cars arent
either red or blue so why must we all be limited by Republican or
Democrat rules?
Prohibitions, limitations and mandates now rule us all. Red voters hope
to impose their values on the blue and visa versa. The red forces will
limit, mandate or prohibit some things while blue cohorts would do the
same to others. No matter the outcome, one half of the electorate will
have gained more power to impose its values at the expense of the other
half. Isnt that expense becoming unbearable and unsustainable for all?
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and choices
restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of regulate
each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary agreement
instead of forced obedience?
Sincerely,
Werner Hetzner
Libertarian Party of New York
http://www.NY.LP.org/choice
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/index.html
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| User: "The Pretzel" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 03:48:58 PM |
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"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:41E019C5.9020708@mac.com...
Larry Heath wrote:
...
This is hardly a big surprise!
The whole Bush administration is built on this type of nonsense, well, I
suppose it's not really nonsense it works for the Bush administration very
well. It is the religious right's attempt to force their thinking, on all
the rest of the people here in the United States...This is precisely why the
40%
of the people of these United States, that did not vote in the current
election cycle, need to wake up and realize that their rights are going to
be taken away from them. They're going to be told what to do, when to do
it, how to do it, where to do it, and which God they prey to. Mark me, they
will be considered enemies of the state if they don't pray to the God chosen
by our theocratic leaders. In what is obviously becoming a theocratic
state. Even if these nonparticipants believe in some other God of their
choice, or no God at all.
Doesn't this begin to sound very much like the Afghan theocratic government.
Later Larry
Isn't that the tragedy of a powerful government? It imposes the values
of some on others. Whether the religioius right or the secular left or
the religious left does it the results is still imposing tyranny.
Baloney.
We lefties are PRO-CHOICE. It's real simple, even for a Rightard to understand.
We believe the government should neither deny nor confirm an existence of a
god(s). It is up to individuals and groups of individuals to define their own
creator, even if they believe in none...
Wasn't America supposed to be about voluntary agreement instead of
forced obedience?
Isn't it high time to join The Resistance?
http://www.ny.lp.org/choice
----
"
In crafting the Bill of Rights, the framers were careful to acknowledge
implicitly and explicitly two key truths:
The first is that government does not grant rights it acknowledges them.
They exist independently of government. They're part of who and what we
are. And, as Jefferson noted in the Declaration of Independence, the
only legitimate function of government is to secure them.
The second is that government is a servant to whom we delegate powers,
not a master who dispenses privileges. The Constitution carefully
enumerates the powers we, the people, delegate to our government and it
specifically denies that government any powers not so delegated. Our
rights lie beyond the pale of that delegation. They are sacrosanct. Any
government which infringes upon them is engaged in an intolerable
usurpation.
"
www.badnarik.org
-----
It was another close election. We find ourselves warring against each
other - - red states and blue; 'them against us'; Left vs. Right;
Republicans vs. Democrats. These forces are just about equal. Each seeks
to take, keep and expand the power to impose values on the other.
Campaign finance laws not withstanding, this election cost much more
than the last. Both sides spent as if in combat and more than many
countries spend on a real war. All else -- other ideas for example -- is
a distraction we can no longer afford in this new war between Americans.
Win at all cost! Tons of money, advertising campaigns, phone banks,
promises, defections, Get out the vote battalions, voter registration
shenanigans, vote fraud, hoards of pollsters, and armies of lawyers have
become our new reality. Except for that other war, the media covered
little else and ignored other candidates.
Why is an election so important? Is it because so much power has never
been so concentrated in so few? If power corrupts, what has happened to
our perspective? Cant there be more colors than just red or blue? We
keep getting evidence that politics as usual is dysfunctional. So why do
we allow ourselves to see no other choices? Is choice even possible
without diversity? What do you have when you have no choice? Cars arent
either red or blue so why must we all be limited by Republican or
Democrat rules?
Prohibitions, limitations and mandates now rule us all. Red voters hope
to impose their values on the blue and visa versa. The red forces will
limit, mandate or prohibit some things while blue cohorts would do the
same to others. No matter the outcome, one half of the electorate will
have gained more power to impose its values at the expense of the other
half. Isnt that expense becoming unbearable and unsustainable for all?
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and choices
restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of regulate
each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary agreement
instead of forced obedience?
Sincerely,
Werner Hetzner
Libertarian Party of New York
http://www.NY.LP.org/choice
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/index.html
.
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 04:23:07 PM |
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The Pretzel wrote:
"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:41E019C5.9020708@mac.com...
...
Isn't that the tragedy of a powerful government? It imposes the values
of some on others. Whether the religioius right or the secular left or
the religious left does it the results is still imposing tyranny.
Baloney.
We lefties are PRO-CHOICE. It's real simple, even for a Rightard to understand.
We believe the government should neither deny nor confirm an existence of a
god(s). It is up to individuals and groups of individuals to define their own
creator, even if they believe in none...
In my experience, lefties are pro-taxes and pro-regulation. In either
case, somebody loses choices. In either case somebody loses his property
and is forced to obey the regulations which require him to give up his
own choices for those imposed on him.
So please explain, how is that PRO-CHOICE?
.
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| User: "The Pretzel" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 05:26:11 PM |
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"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:41E05D4A.506@mac.com...
The Pretzel wrote:
"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:41E019C5.9020708@mac.com...
...
Isn't that the tragedy of a powerful government? It imposes the values
of some on others. Whether the religioius right or the secular left or
the religious left does it the results is still imposing tyranny.
Baloney.
We lefties are PRO-CHOICE. It's real simple, even for a Rightard to
understand.
We believe the government should neither deny nor confirm an existence of a
god(s). It is up to individuals and groups of individuals to define their own
creator, even if they believe in none...
In my experience, lefties are pro-taxes and pro-regulation. In either
Taxes: That's how your wonderful war and war-machine is to be payed for.
The $tar War$ project is costing BILLIONS for? NOTHING! ...and you're against
raising taxes? The Rightard perpetual motion machine. Get something out of
nothing. Regulation is nice so that the public doesn't have to pay for corporate
MESSES.
case, somebody loses choices. In either case somebody loses his property
and is forced to obey the regulations which require him to give up his
own choices for those imposed on him.
So please explain, how is that PRO-CHOICE?
Now we change the subject? We are not PRO-TAX, PRO-regulation. That is
RIGHTARDED propaganda. You CHOOSE to believe it. We believe corporate interests
need to be CHECKED next to public interests. We also believe if you are going to
war, you damn well better find a way to PAY for it.
I see that the Rightards are not only NOT for "free to choose", but break
existing contracts. ...again, ...and again, ...and again.
Tell me *****, when are you guys going to bring back slavery? Tribute??
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait7jan07,0,712059.story
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 10:33:48 PM |
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The Pretzel wrote:
"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:41E05D4A.506@mac.com...
...
In my experience, lefties are pro-taxes and pro-regulation. In either
Taxes: That's how your wonderful war and war-machine is to be payed for.
The $tar War$ project is costing BILLIONS for? NOTHING! ...and you're against
raising taxes? The Rightard perpetual motion machine. Get something out of
nothing. Regulation is nice so that the public doesn't have to pay for corporate
MESSES.
This is whay I see:
if "we the people'' must pay for a "money pit'' we obviously don't want,
does that not make us accountable to government?
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Accountable.shtml
schools
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/PerformanceGap.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/ReportCard.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Schools.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Environment.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Social%20Security.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Health%20Care.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Drugs.shtm
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Education.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/Poverty.shtml
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/ExampleTOC.shtml
and more
Dollars in the common treasury are like fish in the common sea - anyone
who can will harvest to extinction. That is why socialism is
fundamentally corrupting and can not work. ----
...
Tell me *****, when are you guys going to bring back slavery? Tribute??
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait7jan07,0,712059.story
Something tells me you wouldn't be saying that to my face.
Slavery, you stupid ***** head, is what happens when you have to
work for others and do their bidding against your will.
---
It was another close election. We find ourselves warring against each
other - - red states and blue; 'them against us'; Left vs. Right;
Republicans vs. Democrats. These forces are just about equal. Each seeks
to take, keep and expand the power to impose values on the other.
Campaign finance laws not withstanding, this election cost much more
than the last. Both sides spent as if in combat and more than many
countries spend on a real war. All else -- other ideas for example -- is
a distraction we can no longer afford in this new war between Americans.
Win at all cost! Tons of money, advertising campaigns, phone banks,
promises, defections, Get out the vote battalions, voter registration
shenanigans, vote fraud, hoards of pollsters, and armies of lawyers have
become our new reality. Except for that other war, the media covered
little else and ignored other candidates.
Why is an election so important? Is it because so much power has never
been so concentrated in so few? If power corrupts, what has happened to
our perspective? Cant there be more colors than just red or blue? We
keep getting evidence that politics as usual is dysfunctional. So why do
we allow ourselves to see no other choices? Is choice even possible
without diversity? What do you have when you have no choice? Cars arent
either red or blue so why must we all be limited by Republican or
Democrat rules?
Prohibitions, limitations and mandates now rule us all. Red voters hope
to impose their values on the blue and visa versa. The red forces will
limit, mandate or prohibit some things while blue cohorts would do the
same to others. No matter the outcome, one half of the electorate will
have gained more power to impose its values at the expense of the other
half. Isnt that expense becoming unbearable and unsustainable for all?
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and choices
restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of regulate
each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary agreement
instead of forced obedience?
Libertarian Party of New York
http://www.NY.LP.org/choice
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/index.html
.
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| User: "Theodore A. Kaldis" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:10:55 AM |
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Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
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| User: "Roy Blankenship" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 08:45:01 PM |
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"Theodore A. Kaldis" <kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:41E0141F.814BA61D@worldnet.att.net...
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
--
Theodore A. Kaldis
kaldis@worldnet.att.net\
Another ***** robot. We had it good when Clinton was around, or haven't
you noticed? What a dumb ***** thing to say.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 05:56:30 PM |
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In article <41E0141F.814BA61D@worldnet.att.net>, "Theodore A. Kaldis"
<kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
-Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
---
-TAre you still living in Australia Mr.Kaldis?
Is that why tiu have no clue about USA tax regilations?
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Ted, Trying To Pass Himself Off As An Aussie? (Re: Why isn't theIRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 07:35:40 PM |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Ninure Saunders wrote:
In article <41E0141F.814BA61D@worldnet.att.net>, "Theodore A. Kaldis"
<kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
-Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
---
-TAre you still living in Australia Mr.Kaldis?
And here, Tyre-Iron Ted told us he wasn't trying to pass himself off
as an Aussie!
Nin, repeat after me: "Ted Kaldis IS A LIAR." He is not, nor has he
ever been, an actual resident of Australia, despite his efforts to pass
himself off as one (including the use of the Commonwealth spelling for
many common words).
And as you've figured out, the guy's a real prince -- well, more like
a bullfrog (http://home.earthlink.net/~19ranger57/TED_AUS.jpg)....
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Subject: Re: It Really IS About Ken Smith ...
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:44:03 -0500
From: John Hattan <john@thecodezone.com>
Organization: The Code Zone
Newsgroups: misc.legal,alt.fan.bob-larson
"Theodore A. Kaldis" <kaldis@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I have never expressed malice, online or otherwise.
I have the necessary qualifications to speak on behalf of Jesus.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
What "cute" hindu chick? Sorry, but I think the swarthy dot-heads are
dogs. I wouldn't even f*** her with your d***.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
Hey, they let ragheads and towelheads and slapheads and camel jockeys
in. Why shouldn't they let me in? At least I'm not from a completely
alien culture.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
Darling, you're just wound a little too tight. And I know exactly
what'll loosen you up.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
But no towel-heads, no slap-heads, no rag-heads, no camel jockeys, and
no bloody swarthy wogs!
--Theodore A. Kaldis
What other words are there? "Gook". "Slope". "Slant-eye". The list
continues further downhill from here.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
BTW, you're not ugly, or a fat chick, now are you?
--Theodore A. Kaldis
I do not use the word "*****", nor do I use the word "coon"
--Theodore A. Kaldis
At that rate, assuming there are somewhere between 25 to 50 million
blacks in the U.S. (and I don't know what the exact figure is, but I
would surmise that it falls somewhere within that range), they each get
between US$140 to $280. Chump change. With that they would only be
"***** rich".
--Theodore A. Kaldis
I've already been assaulted a couple of times, but both times by Guido's
rather than by coons.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
Raghead women are too ugly to become flight attendants.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
That's easy. This is yet another example of feminine ``logic'' (truly
an oxymoron if ever there was one).
--Theodore A. Kaldis
Ragheads, towel heads, camel jockeys, and other swarthy types not
allowed.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
The *****-suckin' Chicks are toast.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
I have the Holy Spirit to lead me into all the truth and righteousness.
--Theodore A. Kaldis
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
--------------090306050606020200040909--
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:53:02 AM |
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Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
I take it that you find it perfectly acceptable for religious nutters
to flagrantly violate the law, but not state judges, prosecutors, and/or
law enforcement personnel (but only when members of your family are the
ones affected). Your pervasive religious hypocrisy taints everything
you think, do, and say.
Focus on the Family accepted Section 501(c)(3) status, which is in a
sense a "deal with the devil": In accepting the benefits of tax-favored
status, Dobson agreed not to involve his ministry in partisan political
affairs. And as the law says that they can't, they should pay the price
required under law. They should lose their tax-exempt status. Period.
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 01:16:37 PM |
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Ken Smith wrote:
Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
I take it that you find it perfectly acceptable for religious nutters
to flagrantly violate the law, but not state judges, prosecutors,
and/or law enforcement personnel (but only when members of your family
are the ones affected). Your pervasive religious hypocrisy taints
everything you think, do, and say.
Focus on the Family accepted Section 501(c)(3) status, which is in a
sense a "deal with the devil": In accepting the benefits of
tax-favored status, Dobson agreed not to involve his ministry in
partisan political affairs. And as the law says that they can't, they
should pay the price required under law. They should lose their
tax-exempt status. Period.
Is that the case for people like the Reverends Jessy Jackson and
something Sharpton?
It was another close election. We find ourselves warring against each
other - - red states and blue; 'them against us'; Left vs. Right;
Republicans vs. Democrats. These forces are just about equal. Each seeks
to take, keep and expand the power to impose values on the other.
Campaign finance laws not withstanding, this election cost much more
than the last. Both sides spent as if in combat and more than many
countries spend on a real war. All else -- other ideas for example -- is
a distraction we can no longer afford in this new war between Americans.
Win at all cost! Tons of money, advertising campaigns, phone banks,
promises, defections, Get out the vote battalions, voter registration
shenanigans, vote fraud, hoards of pollsters, and armies of lawyers have
become our new reality. Except for that other war, the media covered
little else and ignored other candidates.
Why is an election so important? Is it because so much power has never
been so concentrated in so few? If power corrupts, what has happened to
our perspective? Cant there be more colors than just red or blue? We
keep getting evidence that politics as usual is dysfunctional. So why do
we allow ourselves to see no other choices? Is choice even possible
without diversity? What do you have when you have no choice? Cars arent
either red or blue so why must we all be limited by Republican or
Democrat rules?
Prohibitions, limitations and mandates now rule us all. Red voters hope
to impose their values on the blue and visa versa. The red forces will
limit, mandate or prohibit some things while blue cohorts would do the
same to others. No matter the outcome, one half of the electorate will
have gained more power to impose its values at the expense of the other
half. Isnt that expense becoming unbearable and unsustainable for all?
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and choices
restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of regulate
each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary agreement
instead of forced obedience?
Libertarian Party of New York
http://www.NY.LP.org/choice
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/index.html
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 02:11:24 PM |
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Werner Hetzner wrote:
Ken Smith wrote:
Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
I take it that you find it perfectly acceptable for religious nutters
to flagrantly violate the law, but not state judges, prosecutors,
and/or law enforcement personnel (but only when members of your family
are the ones affected). Your pervasive religious hypocrisy taints
everything you think, do, and say.
Focus on the Family accepted Section 501(c)(3) status, which is in a
sense a "deal with the devil": In accepting the benefits of
tax-favored status, Dobson agreed not to involve his ministry in
partisan political affairs. And as the law says that they can't, they
should pay the price required under law. They should lose their
tax-exempt status. Period.
Is that the case for people like the Reverends Jessy Jackson and
something Sharpton?
I don't know anything about Al Sharpton's or Jesse HiJackson's actual
operations, but they should be judged by the exact same standard as Jim
Dobson. No special exemptions to the law -- for the left OR the right.
[snipped most of stock rant]
Prohibitions, limitations and mandates now rule us all. Red voters hope
to impose their values on the blue and visa versa. The red forces will
limit, mandate or prohibit some things while blue cohorts would do the
same to others. No matter the outcome, one half of the electorate will
have gained more power to impose its values at the expense of the other
half. Isnt that expense becoming unbearable and unsustainable for all?
I'm a Goldwater Republican, which is another way of saying "practical
Libertarian." (IOW, as a matter of principle, you are preaching to the
choir.) However, the free exercise of your rights often affects me, and
vice versa; rules regulating our conduct become a practical necessity.
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and choices
restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of regulate
each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary agreement
instead of forced obedience?
Our system of governance has probably outlived its usefulness, but
the force you would need to overcome the natural societal inertia is so
huge that working toward major change is probably not a viable endeavor.
I'm inclined to try to win a few smaller battles.
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 04:35:34 PM |
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Ken Smith wrote:
Werner Hetzner wrote:
...
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and
choices restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of
regulate each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary
agreement instead of forced obedience?
Our system of governance has probably outlived its usefulness, but
the force you would need to overcome the natural societal inertia is
so huge that working toward major change is probably not a viable
endeavor. I'm inclined to try to win a few smaller battles.
Which system of government, the Republican or the Democrat or both?
Perhaps it's time to for you too to consider joining The Resistance.
http://www.ny.lp.org/choice
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 07:35:29 PM |
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Werner Hetzner wrote:
Ken Smith wrote:
Werner Hetzner wrote:
...
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and
choices restricted by any party? Cant we try to liberate instead of
regulate each other? Wasnt America supposed to be about voluntary
agreement instead of forced obedience?
Our system of governance has probably outlived its usefulness, but
the force you would need to overcome the natural societal inertia is
so huge that working toward major change is probably not a viable
endeavor. I'm inclined to try to win a few smaller battles.
Which system of government, the Republican or the Democrat or both?
Perhaps it's time to for you too to consider joining The Resistance.
http://www.ny.lp.org/choice
I'm part of "The Resistance" -- just working inside the system, where
I have an actual chance to effect change.
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 10:26:30 PM |
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Ken Smith wrote:
Werner Hetzner wrote:
...
Which system of government, the Republican or the Democrat or both?
Perhaps it's time to for you too to consider joining The Resistance.
http://www.ny.lp.org/choice
I'm part of "The Resistance" -- just working inside the system,
where I have an actual chance to effect change.
I used to think that also.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:31:50 AM |
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Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
And you prefer Bush, because of why ?
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
yahoo ID: hellward2004
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:45:10 AM |
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Jez wrote:
Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
And you prefer Bush, because of why ?
Because he's a psycho religious nutter who wants us to be governed by
*HIS* Taliban. He is against adultery -- when it isn't him in the sack.
He rails against those people who make "poor life-choices," like
having children out of wedlock -- unless they are members of his family.
He's all for depriving people of their basic civil rights -- unless
they are members of his family. And he wants religion pushed in public
schools -- provided that it is HIS religion.
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 01:18:46 PM |
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Ken Smith wrote:
Because he's a psycho religious nutter who wants us to be governed
by *HIS* Taliban. He is against adultery -- when it isn't him in the
sack. He rails against those people who make "poor life-choices,"
like having children out of wedlock -- unless they are members of his
family. He's all for depriving people of their basic civil rights --
unless they are members of his family. And he wants religion pushed
in public schools -- provided that it is HIS religion.
While you and Democrats rail about government agents investigating
reading habits of terror suspects, government OSHA agents can
investigate private construction sites. Health Department agents can
investigate private businesses. Code enforcement agents can investigate
private property. IRS agents can investigate your private financial
records. By the way, how have those drug laws affected civil liberties?
Have we forgotten Waco so soon?
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/PatriotAct.shtml
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| User: "Ken Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 02:12:24 PM |
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Werner Hetzner wrote:
Ken Smith wrote:
Because he's a psycho religious nutter who wants us to be governed
by *HIS* Taliban. He is against adultery -- when it isn't him in the
sack. He rails against those people who make "poor life-choices,"
like having children out of wedlock -- unless they are members of his
family. He's all for depriving people of their basic civil rights --
unless they are members of his family. And he wants religion pushed
in public schools -- provided that it is HIS religion.
While you and Democrats rail about government agents investigating
reading habits of terror suspects, government OSHA agents can
investigate private construction sites. Health Department agents can
investigate private businesses. Code enforcement agents can investigate
private property. IRS agents can investigate your private financial
records. By the way, how have those drug laws affected civil liberties?
Have we forgotten Waco so soon?
I'm inclined to agree with that flaming liberal, William F. Buckley,
Jr.: "We've lost the war on drugs, and we might as well deal with it."
As for Waco, that was a colossal blunder, that people should have gone
down for.
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 01:13:11 PM |
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Ken Smith wrote:
Because he's a psycho religious nutter who wants us to be governed by
*HIS* Taliban. He is against adultery -- when it isn't him in the
sack. He rails against those people who make "poor life-choices," like
having children out of wedlock -- unless they are members of his
family. He's all for depriving people of their basic civil rights --
unless they are members of his family. And he wants religion pushed in
public schools -- provided that it is HIS religion.
It was another close election. We find ourselves warring against each
other - - red states and blue; 'them against us'; ‘Left’ vs. ‘Right’;
Republicans vs. Democrats. These forces are just about equal. Each seeks
to take, keep and expand the power to impose values on the other.
Campaign finance laws not withstanding, this election cost much more
than the last. Both sides spent as if in combat and more than many
countries spend on a real war. All else -- other ideas for example -- is
a distraction we can no longer afford in this new war between Americans.
Win at all cost! Tons of money, advertising campaigns, phone banks,
promises, defections, “Get out the vote” battalions, voter registration
shenanigans, vote fraud, hoards of pollsters, and armies of lawyers have
become our new reality. Except for that other war, the media covered
little else and ignored other candidates.
Why is an election so important? Is it because so much power has never
been so concentrated in so few? If power corrupts, what has happened to
our perspective? Can’t there be more colors than just red or blue? We
keep getting evidence that politics as usual is dysfunctional. So why do
we allow ourselves to see no other choices? Is choice even possible
without diversity? What do you have when you have no choice? Cars aren’t
either red or blue so why must we all be limited by Republican or
Democrat rules?
Prohibitions, limitations and mandates now rule us all. Red voters hope
to impose their values on the blue and visa versa. The red forces will
limit, mandate or prohibit some things while blue cohorts would do the
same to others. No matter the outcome, one half of the electorate will
have gained more power to impose its values at the expense of the other
half. Isn’t that expense becoming unbearable and unsustainable for all?
Should we be ruled by anyone? Should values be forced on us and choices
restricted by any party? Can’t we try to liberate instead of regulate
each other? Wasn’t America supposed to be about voluntary agreement
instead of forced obedience?
Libertarian Party of New York
http://www.NY.LP.org/choice
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/index.html
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 12:22:11 PM |
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Ken Smith wrote:
Jez wrote:
Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
Because, thankfully, Bill Clinton is no longer the President.
And you prefer Bush, because of why ?
Because he's a psycho religious nutter who wants us to be governed by
*HIS* Taliban. He is against adultery -- when it isn't him in the sack.
He rails against those people who make "poor life-choices," like having
children out of wedlock -- unless they are members of his family. He's
all for depriving people of their basic civil rights -- unless they are
members of his family. And he wants religion pushed in public schools
-- provided that it is HIS religion.
Well, when you put it like that, it sounds perfectly reasonable !
:)
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
yahoo ID: hellward2004
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| User: "Werner Hetzner" |
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| Title: Re: Why isn't the IRS investigating "Focus on the Family"? |
08 Jan 2005 11:41:09 AM |
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horseman wrote:
...
Dobson was not only misguided in threatening the senators, he crossed
the line between free speech and politicking. His organization's
nonprofit status prohibits it from partisan political activity, in
which Dobson clearly is engaging. Dobson and Focus on the Family
deserve the same tax-status scrutiny the Internal Revenue Service has
levied on other nonprofits allegedly involved in political activity.
....
There is a fine line between advocacy and partisanship. Every
nonprofit group with a tax-exemption has the right to be critical of
the government, but not the right to be active in political campaigns.
Dobson's blunder into electoral politics not only looks illegal, it
also subverts the idea of an independent judiciary and the separation
of powers essential to American democracy.
=========================
Dobson is not the only one who uses the force of government. That is the
problem with government. It forces the values of some on others.
Liberals are particualrly adept at it because they are the ones who like
to create and expand government for their purposes.
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/PatriotAct.shtml
But when the tables are turned, liberals suddenly object to what they
themselves are guiltiy of.
http://1marketsquare.com/CapLP/PatriotAct.shtml
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