"cactus" <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote in message
news:Iwnpj.54143$Pv2.49589@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
| adman wrote:
| > "cactus" <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote in message
| > news:I0dpj.9142$Ej5.5449@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
| > | adman wrote:
| > | > "cactus" <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:kA8pj.5534$Ch6.2849@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
| > | > | adman wrote:
| > | > | > "cactus" <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:11Moj.5158$J41.2322@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
| > | > | > | adman wrote:
| > | > | > | > "cactus" <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote in message
| > | > |snip>
| > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Of course, he made everything for his pleasure
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I have no idea. A deity that takes pleasure in the
depredations of
| > the
| > | > | > | AIDS virus or the way Alzheimer's wrecks humans is not my idea
of
| > a
| > | > | > | deity I would like.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I struggle with these issues also. I could not understand why
God
| > would
| > | > | > allow such things to exist. Then as i read more and more from
many
| > | > sources
| > | > | > and cultures, i realized that everything around us is governed
by
| > | > physical
| > | > | > laws. God made (imho) a physical world for us, not a spirtual
one.
| > In a
| > | > | > physical world we cannot have a left with out a right, a top
without
| > a
| > | > | > bottom. We can not understand what darkness is unless we can
also
| > see
| > | > and
| > | > | > understand light. So while it may seem cruel, inorder for us to
| > exist
| > | > and
| > | > | > have a life at all, we got to accept the good, and we also have
to
| > | > accept
| > | > | > the have bad.
| > | > |
| > | > | Fine as far as it goes, but you believe that your god created
| > | > | everything. That means your god was responsible for things we
regard
| > as
| > | > | evil, or just plain bad. Sort of conflicts with the notion of a
| > "good"
| > | > | god, doesn't it?
| > | >
| > | > God did not create evil. Man OTOH has plenty of evil.
| > |
| > | If God created everything, God created evil. If God did not create
evil,
| > | God did not create everything, which means someone or something else
| > | did. That idea limits God, which from the Jewish perspective is
pagan.
| >
| > That kind of logic will have your mind running in circles looking for
| > anything to stop it or point a finger to; which in this case you point
to
| > God.
| > Man created transportation, therefore man created car wrecks.If man did
not
| > create car wrecks, then man did not create cars or transportation, which
| > means someone else created cars and transportation.That idea limits man.
| >
| > As far as the jewish perspective:they have always been a bit extreme in
| > their views imho
| >
| > The world as God created it is no more. This system of the world is
| > corrupted. The virsus, the germs, all the bad stuff and all the evil was
NOT
| > part of the original design.
| >
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | How can you say that, when your deity is perfect and knows
everything?
| > | > | Such a deity does not make mistakes. Everything is as intended.
| > | >
| > | > I do not think you get it. God made the physical realm and set
things in
| > | > motion. It was then corruped. Once something is fucked up, it is
fucked
| > up.
| > | > You make a nice dinner, someone throws it on the floor. Was the
dinner
| > still
| > | > nice? Before it hit the floor, yes it was. After it hit the floor,
no it
| > | > waas not a nice dinner.
| > | >
| > | > It is really not God's fault we fucked everything up.
| > |
| > | So if God made the physical world and set things in motion, God
created
| > | viruses and the mechanism for them to evolve to infect other
organisms.
| > | If God did not make parasites, God made it possible for parasites to
| > | exist. God made it possible for diseases to spread, God made it
| > | possible for humans to murder humans in ghastly ways, even gave them
the
| > | theology to do it.
| > |
| > | It's like you didn't make the guy trip over your foot, you just made
it
| > | available for him to do so. That's your deity.
| >
| >
| > "Then Michael, Gabriel, Suriel, and Uriel looked down from heaven, and
saw
| > the wickedness which ´Azâz´êl had done in the world"
| > http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bct/bct05.htm
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | We'll just have to disagree on that one.
| > | >
| > | > You think something came from nothing?
| > |
| > | I think that things came from other things. Some things, such as the
| > | ylem, are imponderable. But you Christians always have to have an
| > | answer, even if its wrong. You cannot accept not knowing something or
| > | uncertain knowledge. It gets in the way of your spiritual path. You
| > | made your own stumbling block.
| >
| >
| > Sure i am uncertain, and i would like to have some physical proof that
God
| > exists beyond my personal experiences which are spirtual in nature. But
i
| > accept my uncertain knowledge that God exists on the way of down my
| > spiritual path.There are times when i am 100% sure God exists, and there
are
| > times i want to throw my hands up and say no way. Especially when i hear
all
| > the terrible stories in the news, or when i have personal tradegy in my
| > life.
|
| That's because your faith is weak. If if weren't you wouldn't have to
| say those things.

No at all. I am simply human, and as a human, i will have doubts from time
to time
| >
| > And i know there are others like me.
|
| Indeed. Many of them become fanatics to compensate.

I agree. And this sad fact has turned so many off to God.
The bible old testiment warns these types of zealots that if they teach the
people wrong that there judgement is going to be quite harsh.

|
| >
| > During the conversation with Jesus the father makes a tearful, plea to
| > Jesus: "Lord, Help My Unbelief!" (Mk. 9:24)
| >
| > Just like the father of the little boy wanted help with his unbelief
when
| > his son was dying --because unbelief and doubt affects everyone. That is
| > part of the plan in the destruction of Gods works. To cause us pain and
| > doubt, to lie and murder the children of God.
|
| Your god does that? That's sick.

No,of course not, that is Azâz´êl plan against God's creation.


| >
| >> | And you might benefit from learning about the Kabbalistic idea of
| >> tzimtzum.
| >
| > I read some of it.
| >
| > I perfer to argue in favor of the existance of God, and that there is
some
| > truth to the Torah.
| > Because while primitave, I believe in the Torah for the great
information in
| > it, eventhough it may have some errors. But lets face it, nothing is
| > perefect.
| >
| > The Torah has some uncanny and insightful information like healthy
foods,
| > clean sexual practices, removing mold in a building, social skills, how
to
| > deal with criminals, how to raise a family and on and on and on.
|
| And like virtually all non-Jews you ignore the ethical teachings.

Nope. I simply did not mention in the other post. The ethical teachings are
just as good as the laws. The moral teachings are just as important as the
laws. The book itself has some of the best information for living life with
value.

| > Many laws that man has made has origins from the Torah. Science has just
| > this century admitted that eating pork is bad for you. The Torah is
chocked
| > full of useful information when you filter out the primitive
explanations
| > and get to the real meaning.
|
| Pork is like coffee - sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Ditto
| wine. Shrimp OTOH is always good by Christianity and Islam, but not
| Judaism.

Anykind of shellfish is bad:
Leviticus 11:9-12 states that all salt- and fresh-water fish may be eaten as
long as they have "fins and scales." However, all shellfish, squid, frogs,
octopi, etc. are identified as unclean for human consumption.I guess because
they are bottom feeders. Swine are trash eaters also, and they do not have
sweat glands to remove toxins from the body.

Now, ---There is a passage in the new testiment that man has twisted into
making all foods acceptable.But its original meaning regarding food was a
metaphor imho. So perhaps that is why some christians allow shrimp, etc.

| And the JWs misinterpret the prohibition against "drinking blood,"
| forbidding transfusions. That's primitive IMO.

Perhaps. I am not an JW, so i cannot say. What does jewish faith say about
consuming blood?

I have read "Life is in the blood" and we should not eat it or meat where
the animal has been strangled in the bible. When a hunter cleans an animal
it is usually hung upside down and they "bleed" it before cooking.