Why There's No Design #171 - The Yolk's On Us



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Budikka666"
Date: 26 Sep 2007 06:28:45 PM
Object: Why There's No Design #171 - The Yolk's On Us
I've been reading Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God":
http://tinyurl.com/yw8qs2 (Amazon.com)
I highly recommend it, not only because it is well-written, with
fascinating observations and examples, but also because it's written
by a practicing Catholic who is living proof that the Theory of
Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with being an atheist.
The first part of the book sets up a solid platform of support for the
Theory of Evolution. The second part of the book (which I haven't
reached yet) claims to show how evolution actually glorifies some
god. I'll see about that when I get there.
Meanwhile the book is studded with material I can use in this series.
The only mammals which lay eggs are the monotremes: the platypus, and
some four species of echidna.
You can argue that they almost failed to qualify as mammals, but
because of the limits of the Linnean classification system that's
where they find themselves, this side of the reptiles, lumped in with
us humans. Kind of a transitional form, you might say (you know, the
kind that creationists lie doesn't exist).
None of the rest of the mammalian class lays eggs. You have to ask
yourselves then, why it is that mammalian embryos, and humans in
particular for my purposes here, have a yolk sac?!
Is it because creationists need to be born with a yellow streak down
their back?
The sac contains no yolk. Some might argue that the vitelline fluid
it does contain serves some nutritive purpose, but there's no solid
evidence for this, and even if it did have a purpose, why would an
intelligent designer, starting from scratch with humans, create us in
the same format which he used to create the egg-laying classes?
Was he really an intelligent designer, or was he patently stupid? Did
he actually create us ex nihilo, or did he steal the designs from one
of the other gods that the Bible loves to discuss and try to fudge
them into something different to avoid patent lawsuits?
Or is it simply that there *is* no design at all, just evolution
making the best of a bad job, and that's why organisms are so mixed
up, half-way made, full of vestigial material, with fins kludged up
into digging, flying, and walking devices, and the same material that
provided scales re-employed to provide nails and feathers?
Budikka
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Why There's No Design #171 - The Yolk's On Us 28 Sep 2007 12:44:46 AM
In article <1190849325.394817.67580@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:

I've been reading Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God":
http://tinyurl.com/yw8qs2 (Amazon.com)

I highly recommend it, not only because it is well-written, with
fascinating observations and examples, but also because it's written
by a practicing Catholic who is living proof that the Theory of
Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with being an atheist.

The first part of the book sets up a solid platform of support for the
Theory of Evolution. The second part of the book (which I haven't
reached yet) claims to show how evolution actually glorifies some
god. I'll see about that when I get there.

Meanwhile the book is studded with material I can use in this series.

The only mammals which lay eggs are the monotremes: the platypus, and
some four species of echidna.

You can argue that they almost failed to qualify as mammals, but
because of the limits of the Linnean classification system that's
where they find themselves, this side of the reptiles, lumped in with
us humans. Kind of a transitional form, you might say (you know, the
kind that creationists lie doesn't exist).

None of the rest of the mammalian class lays eggs. You have to ask
yourselves then, why it is that mammalian embryos, and humans in
particular for my purposes here, have a yolk sac?!

Is it because creationists need to be born with a yellow streak down
their back?

The sac contains no yolk. Some might argue that the vitelline fluid
it does contain serves some nutritive purpose, but there's no solid
evidence for this, and even if it did have a purpose, why would an
intelligent designer, starting from scratch with humans, create us in
the same format which he used to create the egg-laying classes?

Was he really an intelligent designer, or was he patently stupid? Did
he actually create us ex nihilo, or did he steal the designs from one
of the other gods that the Bible loves to discuss and try to fudge
them into something different to avoid patent lawsuits?

Or is it simply that there *is* no design at all, just evolution
making the best of a bad job, and that's why organisms are so mixed
up, half-way made, full of vestigial material, with fins kludged up
into digging, flying, and walking devices, and the same material that
provided scales re-employed to provide nails and feathers?

Very good! I don't know how creationists can still hold on by the straw
they call their beliefs. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.
I'll have to read that book by Miller sometime. As soon as I can get my
'unread' pile to go down a little.


Budikka

--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
User: "Budikka666"

Title: Re: Why There's No Design #171 - The Yolk's On Us 28 Sep 2007 06:34:00 PM
On Sep 28, 12:44 am, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

In article <1190849325.394817.67...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,



Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:

I've been reading Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God":
http://tinyurl.com/yw8qs2(Amazon.com)


I highly recommend it, not only because it is well-written, with
fascinating observations and examples, but also because it's written
by a practicing Catholic who is living proof that the Theory of
Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with being an atheist.


The first part of the book sets up a solid platform of support for the
Theory of Evolution. The second part of the book (which I haven't
reached yet) claims to show how evolution actually glorifies some
god. I'll see about that when I get there.


Meanwhile the book is studded with material I can use in this series.


The only mammals which lay eggs are the monotremes: the platypus, and
some four species of echidna.


You can argue that they almost failed to qualify as mammals, but
because of the limits of the Linnean classification system that's
where they find themselves, this side of the reptiles, lumped in with
us humans. Kind of a transitional form, you might say (you know, the
kind that creationists lie doesn't exist).


None of the rest of the mammalian class lays eggs. You have to ask
yourselves then, why it is that mammalian embryos, and humans in
particular for my purposes here, have a yolk sac?!


Is it because creationists need to be born with a yellow streak down
their back?


The sac contains no yolk. Some might argue that the vitelline fluid
it does contain serves some nutritive purpose, but there's no solid
evidence for this, and even if it did have a purpose, why would an
intelligent designer, starting from scratch with humans, create us in
the same format which he used to create the egg-laying classes?


Was he really an intelligent designer, or was he patently stupid? Did
he actually create us ex nihilo, or did he steal the designs from one
of the other gods that the Bible loves to discuss and try to fudge
them into something different to avoid patent lawsuits?


Or is it simply that there *is* no design at all, just evolution
making the best of a bad job, and that's why organisms are so mixed
up, half-way made, full of vestigial material, with fins kludged up
into digging, flying, and walking devices, and the same material that
provided scales re-employed to provide nails and feathers?


Very good! I don't know how creationists can still hold on by the straw
they call their beliefs. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

I'll have to read that book by Miller sometime. As soon as I can get my
'unread' pile to go down a little.

I'll bet *that* happens about once in a blue Moon, too!
Budikka
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Why There's No Design #171 - The Yolk's On Us 29 Sep 2007 12:54:17 AM
In article <1191022440.402838.154030@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
Budikka666 <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:

On Sep 28, 12:44 am, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

In article <1190849325.394817.67...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,



Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:

I've been reading Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God":
http://tinyurl.com/yw8qs2(Amazon.com)


I highly recommend it, not only because it is well-written, with
fascinating observations and examples, but also because it's written
by a practicing Catholic who is living proof that the Theory of
Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with being an atheist.


The first part of the book sets up a solid platform of support for the
Theory of Evolution. The second part of the book (which I haven't
reached yet) claims to show how evolution actually glorifies some
god. I'll see about that when I get there.


Meanwhile the book is studded with material I can use in this series.


The only mammals which lay eggs are the monotremes: the platypus, and
some four species of echidna.


You can argue that they almost failed to qualify as mammals, but
because of the limits of the Linnean classification system that's
where they find themselves, this side of the reptiles, lumped in with
us humans. Kind of a transitional form, you might say (you know, the
kind that creationists lie doesn't exist).


None of the rest of the mammalian class lays eggs. You have to ask
yourselves then, why it is that mammalian embryos, and humans in
particular for my purposes here, have a yolk sac?!


Is it because creationists need to be born with a yellow streak down
their back?


The sac contains no yolk. Some might argue that the vitelline fluid
it does contain serves some nutritive purpose, but there's no solid
evidence for this, and even if it did have a purpose, why would an
intelligent designer, starting from scratch with humans, create us in
the same format which he used to create the egg-laying classes?


Was he really an intelligent designer, or was he patently stupid? Did
he actually create us ex nihilo, or did he steal the designs from one
of the other gods that the Bible loves to discuss and try to fudge
them into something different to avoid patent lawsuits?


Or is it simply that there *is* no design at all, just evolution
making the best of a bad job, and that's why organisms are so mixed
up, half-way made, full of vestigial material, with fins kludged up
into digging, flying, and walking devices, and the same material that
provided scales re-employed to provide nails and feathers?


Very good! I don't know how creationists can still hold on by the straw
they call their beliefs. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

I'll have to read that book by Miller sometime. As soon as I can get my
'unread' pile to go down a little.


I'll bet *that* happens about once in a blue Moon, too!

It's in a state of equilibrium. I think there's about ten books in the
queue at present. I'll finish one book and buy two more. I'll read
three and buy two. I wonder if I'll live long enough to get to the
bottom of the pile.


Budikka

--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.



User: "Ronald More-More Moshki"

Title: Re: Why There's No Design #171 - The Yolk's On Us 26 Sep 2007 09:31:03 PM
On Sep 26, 7:28 pm, Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:

I've been reading Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God":http://tinyurl.com/yw8qs2(Amazon.com)

I highly recommend it, not only because it is well-written, with
fascinating observations and examples, but also because it's written
by a practicing Catholic who is living proof that the Theory of
Evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with being an atheist.

The first part of the book sets up a solid platform of support for the
Theory of Evolution. The second part of the book (which I haven't
reached yet) claims to show how evolution actually glorifies some
god. I'll see about that when I get there.

Meanwhile the book is studded with material I can use in this series.

The only mammals which lay eggs are the monotremes: the platypus, and
some four species of echidna.

You can argue that they almost failed to qualify as mammals, but
because of the limits of the Linnean classification system that's
where they find themselves, this side of the reptiles, lumped in with
us humans. Kind of a transitional form, you might say (you know, the
kind that creationists lie doesn't exist).

None of the rest of the mammalian class lays eggs. You have to ask
yourselves then, why it is that mammalian embryos, and humans in
particular for my purposes here, have a yolk sac?!

Is it because creationists need to be born with a yellow streak down
their back?

The sac contains no yolk. Some might argue that the vitelline fluid
it does contain serves some nutritive purpose, but there's no solid
evidence for this, and even if it did have a purpose, why would an
intelligent designer, starting from scratch with humans, create us in
the same format which he used to create the egg-laying classes?

Was he really an intelligent designer, or was he patently stupid? Did
he actually create us ex nihilo, or did he steal the designs from one
of the other gods that the Bible loves to discuss and try to fudge
them into something different to avoid patent lawsuits?

Or is it simply that there *is* no design at all, just evolution
making the best of a bad job, and that's why organisms are so mixed
up, half-way made, full of vestigial material, with fins kludged up
into digging, flying, and walking devices, and the same material that
provided scales re-employed to provide nails and feathers?

Budikka

Well, Religionists don't believe in a literal God, either.
They are Humanists who hide inside steeples.
Evo. vs Rel. is a strawman.
.


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