"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131889335.283782.137020@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Why was Jesus sacrifice necessary?



Why was sacrifice necessary? Couldn't God [the Father] invent a
slightly less bloody way to cleanse people of their sins?

I'm having trouble grasping the idea of Jesus sacrificing his life in
order to save us from our sins. I'm not talking about the obvious
absurdity of a god sacrificing himself to himself, but rather the the
nature of the sacrifice itself:

Let's assume that the punishment for a single individual who has
committed a single sin is eternal damnation to Hell. Therefore, if a
single individual wants to take responsibility for the sins of all
other individuals, the punishment would have to be at least eternal
damnation to Hell, or more likely Hell-squared or Hell-factorial.

But Jesus, on the other hand, went more-or-less directly to Heaven as
punishment for our sins... sounds like a sweet deal to me! Moreover,
did Jesus know that he was 1/3 god? If so, his 'sacrifice' was
completely false and ingenuine.

I would understand if Jesus were spending eternity in Hell as payment
for all our sins, but where exactly is the sacrifice if he's in Heaven?






http://www.jewsforjudaism.org


Bumper Sticker


DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro­m his own
wrath!(Author unknown)


One God, father-son-ghost?

Are you retard ? Asking people every time since you learn to write the
same question ?
It is boring, go to take some job you filthy animal.

Why was Jesus sacrifice necessary?
Why was sacrifice necessary? Couldn't God [the Father] invent a
slightly less bloody way to cleanse people of their sins?

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com>


Why was Jesus sacrifice necessary?



Why was sacrifice necessary? Couldn't God [the Father] invent a
slightly less bloody way to cleanse people of their sins?

I'm having trouble grasping the idea of Jesus sacrificing his life in
order to save us from our sins. I'm not talking about the obvious
absurdity of a god sacrificing himself to himself, but rather the the
nature of the sacrifice itself:

Let's assume that the punishment for a single individual who has
committed a single sin is eternal damnation to Hell. Therefore, if a
single individual wants to take responsibility for the sins of all
other individuals, the punishment would have to be at least eternal
damnation to Hell, or more likely Hell-squared or Hell-factorial.

But Jesus, on the other hand, went more-or-less directly to Heaven as
punishment for our sins... sounds like a sweet deal to me! Moreover,
did Jesus know that he was 1/3 god? If so, his 'sacrifice' was
completely false and ingenuine.

I would understand if Jesus were spending eternity in Hell as payment
for all our sins, but where exactly is the sacrifice if he's in Heaven?

Hello,

If false statements are made, deductions from them will likely be in
error. And that is the case here. I will try to straighten it out.

First of all, Jesus is not "1/3 god", or to say it another way, a part
of some Trinity thing. The Trinity is not a Bible teaching. Even the
word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. That doctrine came into existence
AFTER the Bible was written, in the fourth century A.D. (more details
on this if you wish)

Jesus could not be God because Jesus was a created being, but God has
always existed.

Jesus created: Col 1:15, "He is the image of the invisible God, the
firstborn of all creation." (NASB)

God always lived: Ps 90:2, "Before the mountains were born or you
brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting
you are God." (NIV)

Thus God is always superior to Jesus. And the Bible clearly states
that. For example, after Jesus was resurrected and went back to
Heaven, he still was inferior to God. 1 Co 11:3,

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)

So in summary on this, the Bible does not teach that Jesus was God.

Second, the 'hellfire' doctrine is not a Bible doctrine. God doesn't
torture anyone or thing. Torture belongs to sadists, not a loving God.
1 Jo 4:8,

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." (NIV)

And the Bible clearly shows the principle that burning living people
alive in a literal fire never even entered God's mind. Jer 7:31,

"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben
Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did
not command, nor did it enter my mind." (NIV)

So if God never thought of such a thing, how could He have allegedly
created such a place?

Yes, the Bible speaks of fire in some places, such as the "lake of
fire" and people being tossed in it. But you have to consider the
context etc, in order to arrive at the correct meaning. For instance
take Re 20:14,

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of
fire is the second death." (NIV)

Notice that "death" is thrown into that alleged literal fire. Can
"death" be picked up and tossed someplace? No, it is not a tangible
thing. And neither is the "lake of fire" literal. That verse even
tells us what it is SYMBOLIC of; "the second death".

So to summarize, God IS love, so God does not TORTURE anyone ever.

So then, back to your other questions on why was Jesus' sacrifice
necessary, and what did Jesus really sacrifice if he ended up in
Heaven?

Why was it necessary? The first man, Adam, was perfect. By his
disobedience, he lost perfection for himself, and all of his
offspring. He lost his perfect life in his perfect physical body.
Thus it would take another perfect life in another perfect physical
body to gain back what Adam lost. That person was Jesus. (the only
other perfect man to walk this earth)

The scripture at De 19:21 shows God's pattern of thinking:

"... soul will be for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for
hand, foot for foot."

Thus things were to be equal.

At 1 Tim 2:6 it reads, "who gave himself a corresponding ransom for
all-[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times"
(NWT)

Jesus is even called "Adam" in a figurative sense showing the
similarity. 1 Co 15:45 reads,

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the
last Adam, a life-giving spirit." (NIV)

So the ransom of Jesus Christ had to be of an equal nature to Adam.
Adam was a man, not a God-man or angel-man. Adam was a perfect human
to start with and showed everyone at the time that a perfect human
would not obey God.

Jesus was a mighty spirit person before he had his personality
transferred to the womb of Mary. At that point he became a perfect man
just like Adam had been before he sinned. Now it could be shown that a
perfect human could remain faithful and obey God. The ransom had to be
a corresponding or equal one.

And what did Jesus actually sacrifice? His perfect human body along
with the life that was in it. Jesus could have kept that body if he
wanted. And being perfect, as well as having angelic protection if he
called for it, Jesus could still be here today in that same physical
body. (Mt 26:53,54) But Jesus wanted to please his Father, and thus
Jesus gave that perfect body in exchange for Adam's perfect body. The
Bible writer Paul sums it up at He 10:10,

"And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the
body of Jesus Christ once for all." (NIV)

But was not Jesus resurrected after he gave up his body? Yes he was,
and Jesus returned to Heaven where he existed before. But since Adam
did not live in Heaven before being on the earth, Jesus did not have
to give up his Heavenly existence. Jesus just had to equal or match
Adam, and what Adam lost for mankind. And that is precisely what Jesus
did.

So in summary, Jesus ransom was necessary to equal what Adam lost;
life in a perfect human body. And since Adam did not live in Heaven
first, Jesus did not have to give
up his Heavenly existence as part of the ransom.

I hope the above Bible verses have cleared some things up for you.


Sincerely, James


***********************************
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Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
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http://www.jewsforjudaism.org

<snip>

"Truth Hunter" <hunter1234222@yahoo.com>


Why was Jesus sacrifice necessary?



Why was sacrifice necessary? Couldn't God [the Father] invent a
slightly less bloody way to cleanse people of their sins?

I'm having trouble grasping the idea of Jesus sacrificing his life in
order to save us from our sins. I'm not talking about the obvious
absurdity of a god sacrificing himself to himself, but rather the the
nature of the sacrifice itself:

Let's assume that the punishment for a single individual who has
committed a single sin is eternal damnation to Hell. Therefore, if a
single individual wants to take responsibility for the sins of all
other individuals, the punishment would have to be at least eternal
damnation to Hell, or more likely Hell-squared or Hell-factorial.

But Jesus, on the other hand, went more-or-less directly to Heaven as
punishment for our sins... sounds like a sweet deal to me! Moreover,
did Jesus know that he was 1/3 god? If so, his 'sacrifice' was
completely false and ingenuine.

I would understand if Jesus were spending eternity in Hell as payment
for all our sins, but where exactly is the sacrifice if he's in Heaven?

Hello,

If false statements are made, deductions from them will likely be in
error. And that is the case here. I will try to straighten it out.

First of all, Jesus is not "1/3 god", or to say it another way, a part
of some Trinity thing. The Trinity is not a Bible teaching. Even the
word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. That doctrine came into existence
AFTER the Bible was written, in the fourth century A.D. (more details
on this if you wish)