WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Jason Spaceman"
Date: 21 Nov 2005 06:50:00 AM
Object: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer
From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius, except by
some outmoded and ill-chosen intelligence classifications. Genius is a
word best reserved for the supremely gifted, great and original minds
such as Mozart, Shakespeare and Babbage, not third-rate novelists with
a prediliction for techo-dilettantism and blogosphere debate.
And yet, I am perhaps reasonably well-suited to answer the question
that has been asked many times of every intelligent and educated
Christian by incredulous atheists. How can you – an intelligent
individual with an expensive education – possibly take seriously what
is at best archaic mythology? How can someone who is otherwise
considered to be smart subscribe to what amounts to nothing more than
fairytales dressed up as history? And how can anyone who is clearly
cognizant of Science ever declare allegiance to its great antithesis,
Superstition?
I take no offense at these questions, for if they are meant to
ridicule, they nevertheless reveal that the questioner has perceived
that vital dichotomy which so often precedes a major transformation in
one's thinking. It is all too easy for the highly intelligent to
dismiss the convictions of the average individual, after all,
especially when one's IQ is as far from the norm as the norm is from
those unfortunates who were once considered imbeciles.
It is not so easy, however, to dismiss the beliefs and thought
processes of those one otherwise considers one's intellectual peers.
The first, and most obvious, answer is that one obviously can because
others of historically remarkable intelligence have. There is no
shortage of devout Christians on the list of mankind's most legendary
geniuses – many of whom are still rightly revered by atheists and
agnostics today. From Galileo and Newton to Doestoevsky and Tolkien,
men of outstanding intellect and achievement have placed their trust
in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it is all too
easy to dismiss many of these men as having lived in the
pre-Enlightened era and it can always be argued, however
disingenuously, that if those now dead had only been privy to the
latest developments in modern science, they, too, would have turned
their backs on the faith of their fathers.
The second answer is a utilitarian one. Science is a *****. Her very
essence precludes certainty, which is both a genuine strength and a
grave weakness. It is a strength because the scientific method of
testing hypotheses encourages a continual seeking after the truth, to
which no one who lives by a book that declares "seek and ye shall
find" should object. It is a weakness because the inherent mutability
of science is at odds with the human desire for objective guidelines
by which to live. This conflict tends to repeatedly create
faux-sciences, which, however outmoded, are clung to with all the
diehard fervor of the religious fanatic.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47503
J. Spaceman
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 04:16:43 PM
In <adr2o11d7ng4mbbo491afu6hpsdd00ehq4@4ax.com>, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> noted:

From the article:
---------------------------------------------------------- Posted:
November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius

Imagine our surprise...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.

User: "Josef Balluch"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 02:34:27 PM
In a message sent 'round the world, Jason Spaceman poured fuel on the
fire with the following:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius, except by
some outmoded and ill-chosen intelligence classifications.

....

And yet, I am perhaps reasonably well-suited to answer the question
that has been asked many times of every intelligent and educated
Christian by incredulous atheists.

For someone so intelligent this fellow certainly has a love of
fallacies. But he is an "educated Christian", which explains it.
....

It is not so easy, however, to dismiss the beliefs and thought
processes of those one otherwise considers one's intellectual peers.

Argument from Authority.
....

Science is a *****. Her very
essence precludes certainty, which is both a genuine strength and a
grave weakness.

....

It is a weakness because the inherent mutability
of science is at odds with the human desire for objective guidelines
by which to live.

....

And while there is no shortage of prophetic charlatans today,
it is interesting to note how those who interpret world events
through a biblical lens have proven to be more reliable than
political scientists.

Double Standard.

Who has not heard the Catholic Spanish Inquisition,
(2,000 death sentences passed on to the Spanish Crown over
349 years) conflated with the pagan Holocaust (12 million
murders in five years), and the atheist slaughters of the
Great Terror, the Great Leap Forward and the Killing Fields.
(4 million murders in 20 years, 30 million murders in 3 years
and 2 million murders in four years, respectively.)

Argument from Body Count.

As Jesus Christ declared it would, the world has hated those
who followed Him from the moment it became aware of them – from
Nero to Kim Jong Il's North Korea.

"Christians are persecuted, so they must be right".

Read it at
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47503

Regards,
Josef
I consider Christianity to be one of the great disasters of the human
race.
-- Alfred North Whitehead
.
User: "Bill"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 04:40:20 PM

And while there is no shortage of prophetic charlatans today,
it is interesting to note how those who interpret world events
through a biblical lens have proven to be more reliable than
political scientists.

And your objective verifiable evidence for this silly statement is???
"Josef Balluch" <josef.balluch@sympatico.can> wrote in message
news:MPG.1deba4fa727998f8989bfc@news1.on.sympatico.ca...


In a message sent 'round the world, Jason Spaceman poured fuel on the
fire with the following:


From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius, except by
some outmoded and ill-chosen intelligence classifications.



...


And yet, I am perhaps reasonably well-suited to answer the question
that has been asked many times of every intelligent and educated
Christian by incredulous atheists.



For someone so intelligent this fellow certainly has a love of
fallacies. But he is an "educated Christian", which explains it.


...


It is not so easy, however, to dismiss the beliefs and thought
processes of those one otherwise considers one's intellectual peers.



Argument from Authority.


...


Science is a *****. Her very
essence precludes certainty, which is both a genuine strength and a
grave weakness.



...


It is a weakness because the inherent mutability
of science is at odds with the human desire for objective guidelines
by which to live.



...


And while there is no shortage of prophetic charlatans today,
it is interesting to note how those who interpret world events
through a biblical lens have proven to be more reliable than
political scientists.



Double Standard.



Who has not heard the Catholic Spanish Inquisition,
(2,000 death sentences passed on to the Spanish Crown over
349 years) conflated with the pagan Holocaust (12 million
murders in five years), and the atheist slaughters of the
Great Terror, the Great Leap Forward and the Killing Fields.
(4 million murders in 20 years, 30 million murders in 3 years
and 2 million murders in four years, respectively.)



Argument from Body Count.



As Jesus Christ declared it would, the world has hated those
who followed Him from the moment it became aware of them - from
Nero to Kim Jong Il's North Korea.



"Christians are persecuted, so they must be right".



Read it at
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47503





Regards,

Josef




I consider Christianity to be one of the great disasters of the human
race.

-- Alfred North Whitehead




.


User: "Cyde Weys"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 08:41:45 AM
Jason Spaceman wrote:

From Galileo and Newton to Doestoevsky and Tolkien,
men of outstanding intellect and achievement have placed their trust
in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it is all too
easy to dismiss many of these men as having lived in the
pre-Enlightened era and it can always be argued, however
disingenuously, that if those now dead had only been privy to the
latest developments in modern science, they, too, would have turned
their backs on the faith of their fathers.

I have made that same claim on my own a number of times, yet nobody has
offered any good evidence to the contrary, and this author is just
glossing right over the issue while taking a potshot at people like me
by claiming we're disingenuous. Well guess what sir, I'm very genuous
on this issue.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 03:25:02 PM
Cyde Weys wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From Galileo and Newton to Doestoevsky and Tolkien,
men of outstanding intellect and achievement have placed their trust
in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it is all too
easy to dismiss many of these men as having lived in the
pre-Enlightened era and it can always be argued, however
disingenuously, that if those now dead had only been privy to the
latest developments in modern science, they, too, would have turned
their backs on the faith of their fathers.


I have made that same claim on my own a number of times, yet nobody has
offered any good evidence to the contrary, and this author is just
glossing right over the issue while taking a potshot at people like me
by claiming we're disingenuous. Well guess what sir, I'm very genuous
on this issue.

I have never argued that they would have turned their backs on
Christianity, but they sure wouldn't have become adherents of an
anti-intellectual fundamentalist cult (unless, of course, they cracked
up.)
Eric Root
.
User: "rich hammett"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 11:22:39 PM
In talk.origins
sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:

Cyde Weys wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From Galileo and Newton to Doestoevsky and Tolkien,
men of outstanding intellect and achievement have placed their trust
in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it is all too
easy to dismiss many of these men as having lived in the
pre-Enlightened era and it can always be argued, however
disingenuously, that if those now dead had only been privy to the
latest developments in modern science, they, too, would have turned
their backs on the faith of their fathers.


I have made that same claim on my own a number of times, yet nobody has
offered any good evidence to the contrary, and this author is just
glossing right over the issue while taking a potshot at people like me
by claiming we're disingenuous. Well guess what sir, I'm very genuous
on this issue.

I have never argued that they would have turned their backs on
Christianity, but they sure wouldn't have become adherents of an
anti-intellectual fundamentalist cult (unless, of course, they cracked
up.)

Newton? He just might've.
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
.
User: "Brian Westley"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 22 Nov 2005 07:27:09 PM
rich hammett <bubbarichau@warmmail.com> writes:

In talk.origins

sanoi, hitaasti kuin hämähäkki:

Cyde Weys wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From Galileo and Newton to Doestoevsky and Tolkien,
men of outstanding intellect and achievement have placed their trust
in the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, it is all too
easy to dismiss many of these men as having lived in the
pre-Enlightened era and it can always be argued, however
disingenuously, that if those now dead had only been privy to the
latest developments in modern science, they, too, would have turned
their backs on the faith of their fathers.


I have made that same claim on my own a number of times, yet nobody has
offered any good evidence to the contrary, and this author is just
glossing right over the issue while taking a potshot at people like me
by claiming we're disingenuous. Well guess what sir, I'm very genuous
on this issue.

I have never argued that they would have turned their backs on
Christianity, but they sure wouldn't have become adherents of an
anti-intellectual fundamentalist cult (unless, of course, they cracked
up.)

Newton? He just might've.

But that was just the mercury talking.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
.




User: "JPG"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 10:28:01 AM
Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")
Bio:
Vox Day is a novelist and Christian libertarian. He is a member of the
SFWA, Mensa and the Southern Baptist church, and has been down with
Madden since 1992. Visit his Web log, Vox Popoli, for daily commentary
and responses to reader email.
One notices a distinct lack of science education. And I don't know
about anyone else, but to me anyone mentioning a membership of "Mensa"
suggests either outright arrogance or a "despite my crappy job and/or
nerdy demeanour, I am really quite clever" type of person.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 11:26:41 AM
JPG wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")

It's probably a nom de plume. I would certainly hope so as it seems to
be a play on vox dei. Mind you he seems arrogant enough to carry off
that title.


Bio:

Vox Day is a novelist and Christian libertarian. He is a member of the
SFWA, Mensa and the Southern Baptist church, and has been down with
Madden since 1992. Visit his Web log, Vox Popoli, for daily commentary
and responses to reader email.


One notices a distinct lack of science education. And I don't know
about anyone else, but to me anyone mentioning a membership of "Mensa"
suggests either outright arrogance or a "despite my crappy job and/or
nerdy demeanour, I am really quite clever" type of person.

.
User: "Harry K"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 02:45:46 PM
wrote:

JPG wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")


It's probably a nom de plume. I would certainly hope so as it seems to
be a play on vox dei. Mind you he seems arrogant enough to carry off
that title.


Bio:

Vox Day is a novelist and Christian libertarian. He is a member of the
SFWA, Mensa and the Southern Baptist church, and has been down with
Madden since 1992. Visit his Web log, Vox Popoli, for daily commentary
and responses to reader email.


One notices a distinct lack of science education. And I don't know
about anyone else, but to me anyone mentioning a membership of "Mensa"
suggests either outright arrogance or a "despite my crappy job and/or
nerdy demeanour, I am really quite clever" type of person.

Seen somewhere:
"even in a Mensa meeting there is one person who is the dumbest in the
room".
Hary K
.

User: "Jason Spaceman"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 11:37:28 AM
On 21 Nov 2005 03:26:41 -0800,
wrote:


JPG wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")


It's probably a nom de plume. I would certainly hope so as it seems to
be a play on vox dei. Mind you he seems arrogant enough to carry off
that title.

It is, according to http://blogs.salon.com/0003494/2004/06/06.html#a91
Day's real name is Theodore Beale.
J. Spaceman
.
User: "Andrew Haley"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 22 Nov 2005 05:52:20 PM
In alt.atheism Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:

On 21 Nov 2005 03:26:41 -0800,

wrote:


JPG wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

(C) 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")


It's probably a nom de plume. I would certainly hope so as it seems to
be a play on vox dei. Mind you he seems arrogant enough to carry off
that title.

Hey, his blog is even better! How about this one for chutzpah:
"Is it good enough for me to say that we can't know God's thinking
processes? Yes, for me. I regularly encounter people who are simply
incapable of grasping my thought processes and after many years I've
finally learned to accept that they're not intentionally being
difficult, that they just can't do it for whatever reason. I therefore
have no problem believing that I have a similar inability to
understand the way in which a Divine mind operates."
This is your brain on MENSA. Just say no...
Andrew.
.
User: "David Jensen"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 22 Nov 2005 09:31:13 PM
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:52:20 -0000, in alt.atheism
Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote in
<11o6mmkmt648q08@news.supernews.com>:

In alt.atheism Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:

On 21 Nov 2005 03:26:41 -0800,

wrote:



JPG wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

(C) 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")


It's probably a nom de plume. I would certainly hope so as it seems to
be a play on vox dei. Mind you he seems arrogant enough to carry off
that title.


Hey, his blog is even better! How about this one for chutzpah:

"Is it good enough for me to say that we can't know God's thinking
processes? Yes, for me. I regularly encounter people who are simply
incapable of grasping my thought processes and after many years I've
finally learned to accept that they're not intentionally being
difficult, that they just can't do it for whatever reason. I therefore
have no problem believing that I have a similar inability to
understand the way in which a Divine mind operates."

This is your brain on MENSA. Just say no...

Is MENSA related to LSD?
.


User: ""

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 02:04:52 PM
Jason Spaceman wrote:

On 21 Nov 2005 03:26:41 -0800,

wrote:


JPG wrote:

Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


Written by one "Vox Day" (Were his parents having a laugh? "What a
lovely baby boy, I think we should name him after the Latin word for
'voice'")


It's probably a nom de plume. I would certainly hope so as it seems to
be a play on vox dei. Mind you he seems arrogant enough to carry off
that title.


It is, according to http://blogs.salon.com/0003494/2004/06/06.html#a91
Day's real name is Theodore Beale.


Thanks Jason
I can understand why he would want to go by the slightly more
impressively titled 'Vox Day'. I'm sure the fact that given the
phonetics it could be heard as vox Dei and translated as 'voice of God'
is purely coincedental.
It really is a curious piece. A lot of foot stamping and whining but
nothing of any real substance.




J. Spaceman

.
User: "Victor Eijkhout"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 04:30:10 PM
<alexanderhudson@btinternet.com> wrote:

Day's real name is Theodore Beale.


I can understand why he would want to go by the slightly more
impressively titled 'Vox Day'.

He could change his first name to Howard.
Victor.
--
Victor Eijkhout -- eijkhout at tacc utexas edu
ph: 512 471 5809
.





User: "Richard Smol"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 10:13:33 AM
Jason Spaceman wrote:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

"From a utilitarian perspective, then, it makes a tremendous amount of
sense for an individual or a society to live by the precepts of the
Bible, even if one does so sans belief. "
Yeah, lets burn witches, bash children against rocks and stone
unbelievers to death. Next, murder, pillage and rape all nations that
don't believe as we do. Those are great precepts indeed.
RS
.

User: ""

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 08:38:44 AM
This doesn't sound like a good start but I'll have time to read the
whole thing later. At first glace it looks to me like an ad hom attack
against atheism.. or more precisely against atheists who engage in
similar attacks against Christians which I absolutely do not condone.
At the same time I have no sympathy and no amount of elegance will blur
stupidity. The article is beautifully worded suggesting he's got half
a brain. It'll be interesting to see what he comes up with once he
starts to use it.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 08:44:18 AM
Note that was an ad hom against him, not Christians. Like I said, I
don't condone attacks on belief systems but I'm not above a personal
attack every now and then. ;-)
.


User: "Ptet"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 07:59:23 AM
[snip]

From the article:
[snip]
Let me begin by assuring the reader that I am no genius, except by
some outmoded and ill-chosen intelligence classifications.
[snip]

Then why does he mention it?

...Science is a *****....

*Someone* has issues with women...
Paging Dr. Freud... Paging Dr. Freud...

[snip]
This conflict tends to repeatedly create
faux-sciences, which, however outmoded, are clung to with all the
diehard fervor of the religious fanatic.

Like intelligent design, for example?
PTET
--
http://ptet.blogspot.com
.

User: "Ferrous Patella"

Title: Re: WingNutDaily columnist: The irony of the intelligent believer 21 Nov 2005 06:08:17 PM
news:adr2o11d7ng4mbbo491afu6hpsdd00ehq4@4ax.com by Jason Spaceman:

From the article:
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 21, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

(c) 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

[Snipping Mensa member's non-sequitur of pointing out the his genius does
not matter, so please ignore it...really.]

The second answer is a utilitarian one. Science is a *****. Her very
essence precludes certainty, which is both a genuine strength and a
grave weakness. It is a strength because the scientific method of
testing hypotheses encourages a continual seeking after the truth, to
which no one who lives by a book that declares "seek and ye shall
find" should object. It is a weakness because the inherent mutability
of science is at odds with the human desire for objective guidelines
by which to live.

Ahh...poor boy. Science doesn't (even pretend to) answer the questions you
want it to. So therefore it has a weakness?

This conflict tends to repeatedly create
faux-sciences, which, however outmoded, are clung to with all the
diehard fervor of the religious fanatic.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

And this is somehow science's fault?


Read it at
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47503

--
Ferrous Patella (Homo gerardii)
T.A., Philosophy Lab
University of Ediacara
Å vite hva man ikke vet,
er også en slags allvitenhet.
.


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