Religions > Atheism > Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mr. Young" |
| Date: |
31 Aug 2006 12:45:15 AM |
| Object: |
Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.
http://www.lifenews.com/nat2552.html
Springfield, IL (LifeNews.com) -- A new survey shows women considering an
abortion want to know information about the risks and dangers associated
with it beforehand. The survey stands in stark contrast to the position
abortion advocates take in opposition to legislation allowing women to know
the potential medical problems abortion presents.
The Journal of Medical Ethics published the results of the survey of 187
women in July.
The survey polled women seeking obstetric and gynecological services at a
Wisconsin women's health clinic and they were asked to give their opinions
about receiving information for elective medical procedures.
In the survey they ranked the kind of information they would want beforehand
and ranked the severity of different kinds of complications form a medical
procedure ranging from a headache to death.
The results showed 95 percent of patients wished to be informed of all the
risks of a procedure and 65 percent would want to know all of the possible
alternatives beforehand -- not just those alternatives a doctor presents.
In the ranking of risks, women placed mental and emotional health
consequences very high on the list -- only slightly below the risk of death
or heart disease.
Dr. David Reardon, director of the Elliot Institute and one of co-authors of
the study, said the finding may be especially important vis-a-vis abortion
decisions since recent peer-reviewed studies have linked abortion to
increased rates of mental health problems.
Some problems coming from an abortion, according to various studies, include
suicidal behavior, clinical depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse,
and sleep disorders.
"Doctors should anticipate that most women desire information on every
potential risk, even risks that doctors may judge to be less serious or
inconsequentially rare, and they will generally consider this information to
be relevant to their decisions regarding elective procedures," the authors
wrote in the study.
Reardon, in a statement sent to LifeNews.com, said the survey "demonstrates
that women have a high level of interest in being informed of any risk that
is statistically associated with the procedure, including psychological
risks."
While abortion businesses may regard some abortion risks as relatively
minor, Dr. Reardon said women don't regard them that way.
"It also reveals that while some experts may consider some associations,
such as a 10 percent higher risk of breast cancer, as relatively
unimportant, most women would consider it to be very important to their
decision making process," he said.
Reardon also said the study refutes the claim that abortion practitioners
should withhold information about studies identifying abortion risks simply
because he believes that future studies may someday disprove the earlier
findings.
"Our survey shows that most women don't want doctors to screen which
information they are told about risks," he said. "They want to judge the
evidence for themselves."
Reardon concluded that the study showed women "clearly prefer to be fully
informed about all possible complications, even if abortion providers insist
that the causal links between abortion and these statistically linked
complications have yet to be fully proven to the abortionist's
satisfaction."
Dr. Priscilla Coleman, a professor at Bowling Green State University, was
another one of the authors of the new study.
--
----------
Mr. J Yöung
youngopinions@aol.com
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 01:22:38 AM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about, and one that most people simply do not care about, a simple
question seemed to be in order.
It's an obvious attempt to distract from your failure to justify your
sexist double-standards by resorting to a personal attack.
A simple question is a personal attack?
Have you stopped molesting children?
Another childish comment
"A simple question is a [childish comment]"?
That type of question? Yes.
Then by your own standards you are childish.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 05:25:53 AM |
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On 26 Oct 2006 06:22:38 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<4540542e$0$34556$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about, and one that most people simply do not care about, a simple
question seemed to be in order.
It's an obvious attempt to distract from your failure to justify your
sexist double-standards by resorting to a personal attack.
A simple question is a personal attack?
Have you stopped molesting children?
Another childish comment
"A simple question is a [childish comment]"?
That type of question? Yes.
Then by your own standards you are childish.
I was not the one who asked the question. Nor am I the one who is
dragging the conversation as far from the origional subject as
possible.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 12:26:15 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about, and one that most people simply do not care about, a simple
question seemed to be in order.
It's an obvious attempt to distract from your failure to justify your
sexist double-standards by resorting to a personal attack.
A simple question is a personal attack?
Have you stopped molesting children?
Another childish comment
"A simple question is a [childish comment]"?
That type of question? Yes.
Then by your own standards you are childish.
I was not the one who asked the question.
You are a liar.
Have you paid your child support this month?
Attila in <scpfj25fqri2rs8ggdo9nmi7co316tam11@4ax.com>
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 06:37:45 PM |
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On 26 Oct 2006 17:26:15 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<4540efb7$0$34499$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about, and one that most people simply do not care about, a simple
question seemed to be in order.
It's an obvious attempt to distract from your failure to justify your
sexist double-standards by resorting to a personal attack.
A simple question is a personal attack?
Have you stopped molesting children?
Another childish comment
"A simple question is a [childish comment]"?
That type of question? Yes.
Then by your own standards you are childish.
I was not the one who asked the question.
You are a liar.
Have you paid your child support this month?
Attila in <scpfj25fqri2rs8ggdo9nmi7co316tam11@4ax.com>
You had failed to respond to numerous questions on this subject. I
simply took one position over the other.
However, there is nothing semantically loaded about this as there is
in your question. And you know exactly what I am talking about.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
27 Oct 2006 12:14:20 AM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 17:26:15 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<4540efb7$0$34499$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about, and one that most people simply do not care about, a simple
question seemed to be in order.
It's an obvious attempt to distract from your failure to justify your
sexist double-standards by resorting to a personal attack.
A simple question is a personal attack?
Have you stopped molesting children?
Another childish comment
"A simple question is a [childish comment]"?
That type of question? Yes.
Then by your own standards you are childish.
I was not the one who asked the question.
You are a liar.
Have you paid your child support this month?
Attila in <scpfj25fqri2rs8ggdo9nmi7co316tam11@4ax.com>
You had failed to respond to numerous questions on this subject.
The childish pro-liar changes the subject, avoiding the fact that he
got caught in another lie.
No news at 11.
--
Ray Fischer
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
24 Oct 2006 11:44:55 AM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 24 Oct 2006 04:00:43 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453d8feb$0$34509$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
And you're so lacking any morals or honesty that you think that's
justification for outright lying.
But I have not lied.
Yes, you have.
Oh? Where and about what?
This is one of your favorite tactics - since you can't defend the
origional point you use personal attacks to change the direction of
Like accusing me of having to pay child support?
Hypocritical *****.
I asked several times if you were paying. You refused to answer.
Your perverted need to stick your nose into my private life is no
justification for lying.
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about,
Same back at you, pervert.
--
Ray Fischer
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
24 Oct 2006 12:37:45 PM |
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On 24 Oct 2006 16:44:55 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453e4307$0$34528$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 24 Oct 2006 04:00:43 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453d8feb$0$34509$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
And you're so lacking any morals or honesty that you think that's
justification for outright lying.
But I have not lied.
Yes, you have.
Oh? Where and about what?
This is one of your favorite tactics - since you can't defend the
origional point you use personal attacks to change the direction of
Like accusing me of having to pay child support?
Hypocritical *****.
I asked several times if you were paying. You refused to answer.
Your perverted need to stick your nose into my private life is no
justification for lying.
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about,
Same back at you, pervert.
Not really. I just enjoy seeing some people foam at the mouth
whenever this comes up. And of course distorting what it really is in
the process.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
24 Oct 2006 12:44:56 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 24 Oct 2006 16:44:55 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453e4307$0$34528$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 24 Oct 2006 04:00:43 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453d8feb$0$34509$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
And you're so lacking any morals or honesty that you think that's
justification for outright lying.
But I have not lied.
Yes, you have.
Oh? Where and about what?
This is one of your favorite tactics - since you can't defend the
origional point you use personal attacks to change the direction of
Like accusing me of having to pay child support?
Hypocritical *****.
I asked several times if you were paying. You refused to answer.
Your perverted need to stick your nose into my private life is no
justification for lying.
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks? To distract from your
obvious dishonesty and sexist double standards?
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about,
Same back at you, pervert.
Not really.
You keep responding, pervert.
--
Ray Fischer
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
24 Oct 2006 06:05:45 PM |
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On 24 Oct 2006 17:44:56 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453e5118$0$34516$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source. Almost every conversation
with you soon reaches the point where you are making personal comments
about the other party, with 'liar' being one of your most common
comments. And one of the more printable ones.
To distract from your
obvious dishonesty and sexist double standards?
I am not dishonest and have no double standards.
Since the subject is one that you seem to have very strong feelings
about,
Same back at you, pervert.
Not really.
You keep responding, pervert.
Sure. I enjoy ticking you off.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
25 Oct 2006 10:45:58 AM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
25 Oct 2006 03:11:35 PM |
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On 25 Oct 2006 15:45:58 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<453f86b6$0$34486$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 01:22:57 AM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 05:24:37 AM |
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On 26 Oct 2006 06:22:57 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<45405441$0$34556$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind? I am sure it is unrelated to
your origional position that child support is nothing more than
punishment for men.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 12:27:04 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 06:22:57 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<45405441$0$34556$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
--
Ray Fischer
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
26 Oct 2006 06:35:04 PM |
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On 26 Oct 2006 17:27:04 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<4540efe8$0$34499$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 06:22:57 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<45405441$0$34556$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
No, I simply have more to do than try to remember the details of
unimportant conversations.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
27 Oct 2006 12:15:53 AM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
No, I simply have more to do than try to remember the details of
unimportant conversations.
Smirk. A pretty sorry excuse given that the question is still present
above and was in the very article you posted.
But I can understand that honesty and integrity might be too much of a
bother for you.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
27 Oct 2006 06:21:41 AM |
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On 27 Oct 2006 05:15:53 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<45419609$0$34520$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
No, I simply have more to do than try to remember the details of
unimportant conversations.
Smirk. A pretty sorry excuse given that the question is still present
above and was in the very article you posted.
OK You have succeeded in thoroughly confusing me. The only question I
see is where I asked you why you clipped my comment.
You then said this was a personal attack. Your clip removed the
substance of my remark, but frankly I am not interested enough to go
back and add it.
You seem to be emotionally involved with the issue of court ordered
child support. You seem to consider it some kind of punishment for
men.
I have pointed out that the objective of child support is to provide
for the child, and not to punish anyone. You are also ignoring the
fact that more and more courts are ordering similar child support from
the woman involved. Such support is usually paid by the non-custodial
parent, male or female.
I have no interest in a discussion of just what constitutes a
non-custodial parent - that will vary from case to case and I really
don't care. I was discussing the concept of child support and what
it's purpose is.
Frequently those who are forced to pay such support against their will
consider it as punishment or whatever. Which is entirely irrelevant -
their views on the subject (whether in agreement or disagreement)
really don't matter.
But I can understand that honesty and integrity might be too much of a
bother for you.
No, trying to carry on a discussion with you is simply tiring. You
see, I just don't care enough about this topic to bother to go back to
past posts. Make of it what you will.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
27 Oct 2006 12:39:26 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
No, I simply have more to do than try to remember the details of
unimportant conversations.
Smirk. A pretty sorry excuse given that the question is still present
above and was in the very article you posted.
OK You have succeeded in thoroughly confusing me. The only question I
see is where I asked you why you clipped my comment.
Tsk. Senile dementia is a sad thing.
You then said this was a personal attack.
"Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?"
That's a question which you're still avoiding.
[...]
You seem to be emotionally involved with the issue of court ordered
child support.
I defend the liberty which you oppose.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
27 Oct 2006 06:26:44 PM |
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On 27 Oct 2006 17:39:26 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<4542444e$0$34580$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
No, I simply have more to do than try to remember the details of
unimportant conversations.
Smirk. A pretty sorry excuse given that the question is still present
above and was in the very article you posted.
OK You have succeeded in thoroughly confusing me. The only question I
see is where I asked you why you clipped my comment.
Tsk. Senile dementia is a sad thing.
You then said this was a personal attack.
"Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?"
That's a question which you're still avoiding.
I do not usually make personal attacks, although at times I do. It is
not really a defense to point out you make such attacks in most of
your comments.
[...]
You seem to be emotionally involved with the issue of court ordered
child support.
I defend the liberty which you oppose.
What liberty? To be wrong?
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
27 Oct 2006 09:59:12 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
That is an interesting comment. Shall we examine it in detail?
No.
And then you clipped my entire comment.
What part of it were you afraid of?
Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?
That is amusing, considering the source.
And away the anti-choicer scurries.
Sorry. Still here.
Still running away from the question.
Just what question did you have in mind?
You should see your doctor since you appear to be suffering from the
onset of Alzheimer's.
No, I simply have more to do than try to remember the details of
unimportant conversations.
Smirk. A pretty sorry excuse given that the question is still present
above and was in the very article you posted.
OK You have succeeded in thoroughly confusing me. The only question I
see is where I asked you why you clipped my comment.
Tsk. Senile dementia is a sad thing.
You then said this was a personal attack.
"Why do you need to resort to personal attacks?"
That's a question which you're still avoiding.
I do not usually make personal attacks, although at times I do. It is
You're still avoiding the question.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
21 Oct 2006 06:00:33 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
There must be a relationship, however tenuous, before
child support is ordered.
And now you play your game of moving the goalposts, from "established
relationship" between two people to "relationship, however tenuous".
Typical pro-liar dishonesty.
More semantics.
You're a liar and, rather than try for honesty, you play the pro-liar
game of denial.
Since it appears your definition of being a liar is to disagree with
Since you use that pathetic little whine when you get caught lying it
is obvious that you're just another pro-liar who can't handle the truth.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Alan Ferris" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
16 Oct 2006 12:29:09 PM |
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On 16 Oct 2006 06:36:49 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Alan Ferris <alan@spamddandd.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
So now you are saying that slavery and forced child support are not so
different after all.
No. While they do have some vague similarities they are quite
different.
Both involve forced servitude.
Neither (according to you) is punishment.
Neither is based upon any action by the victim.
How is a person a victim of having support their own child?
"How is a person a victim of having support their own [master]?"
You choose to have a child, you do not choose to have a master.
Loss of liberty is punishment, no matter that you think that the
person may be deserving. That you assign a child to a man and then
convince yourself that the responsibility is just does not make it
so.
It is if it is his child, he made choices in life.
--
Alan "Ferrit" Ferris
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
16 Oct 2006 11:38:27 PM |
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Alan Ferris <alan@spamddandd.com> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Alan Ferris <alan@spamddandd.com> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
So now you are saying that slavery and forced child support are not so
different after all.
No. While they do have some vague similarities they are quite
different.
Both involve forced servitude.
Neither (according to you) is punishment.
Neither is based upon any action by the victim.
How is a person a victim of having support their own child?
"How is a person a victim of having support their own [master]?"
You choose to have a child, you do not choose to have a master.
Men NEVER choose to have a child. The choice is given only to women.
Loss of liberty is punishment, no matter that you think that the
person may be deserving. That you assign a child to a man and then
convince yourself that the responsibility is just does not make it
so.
It is if it is his child, he made choices in life.
You made choices too. Should YOU be forced to support a child?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
14 Oct 2006 06:50:56 PM |
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On 14 Oct 2006 06:23:13 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Slavery was legal and supported by the courts....
Slavery was Constitutional -- and therefore supported by the courts.
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| User: "Bill Shatzer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
30 Sep 2006 11:03:49 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
Both parents legally share responsibility for the costs of raising the
child. Someone must pay, and society has decided the parents are the
proper parties to do this.
One person is punished for the actions of another.
Child support is not considered punishment.
By you.
I wonder how you tell the difference between a fine of $100,000 for a
criminal action and a fine of $100,000 to support a child that you had
nothing to do with creating.
Save in the case of adoption, no one need ever pay child support for a
child they had "nothing to do with creating".
Folks who end up paying child support were most intimately involved in
its creation.
Peace and justice,
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
30 Sep 2006 11:46:56 PM |
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Bill Shatzer <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) in
Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
Both parents legally share responsibility for the costs of raising the
child. Someone must pay, and society has decided the parents are the
proper parties to do this.
One person is punished for the actions of another.
Child support is not considered punishment.
By you.
I wonder how you tell the difference between a fine of $100,000 for a
criminal action and a fine of $100,000 to support a child that you had
nothing to do with creating.
Save in the case of adoption, no one need ever pay child support for a
child they had "nothing to do with creating".
It happens all the time.
Folks who end up paying child support were most intimately involved in
its creation.
How many men to you figure give birth to children? Last I checked,
only women gave birth to children and only women were allowed to
choose whether to give birth to a child. In fact, a woman doesn't
even need a man to give birth to a child. All she needs is some
viable sperm.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Emmanual Kann" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
01 Oct 2006 01:03:54 AM |
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An Sun, 01 Oct 2006 04:46:56 +0000, Ray Fischer schreibt:
Save in the case of adoption, no one need ever pay child support for a
child they had "nothing to do with creating".
It happens all the time.
Just for argument sake, can you cite just one case?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
01 Oct 2006 01:45:09 AM |
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Emmanual Kann <nicht@keinspam.invalid> wrote:
An Sun, 01 Oct 2006 04:46:56 +0000, Ray Fischer schreibt:
Save in the case of adoption, no one need ever pay child support for a
child they had "nothing to do with creating".
It happens all the time.
Just for argument sake, can you cite just one case?
How about the laws that say a man is legally obligated to support any
child his wife produces?
How about laws which say that men are required to support children
even when they are raped by the woman?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1497292/posts
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
01 Oct 2006 05:34:15 AM |
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On 01 Oct 2006 06:45:09 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<451f63f5$0$34578$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Emmanual Kann <nicht@keinspam.invalid> wrote:
An Sun, 01 Oct 2006 04:46:56 +0000, Ray Fischer schreibt:
Save in the case of adoption, no one need ever pay child support for a
child they had "nothing to do with creating".
It happens all the time.
Just for argument sake, can you cite just one case?
How about the laws that say a man is legally obligated to support any
child his wife produces?
Such a law presumes he is the father of such children.
How about laws which say that men are required to support children
even when they are raped by the woman?
The reference case is a legal oddity - the father failed to take the
action needed to avoid such payments. I agree the law needs to be
changed but there are always odd corners in the legal system.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1497292/posts
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows |
01 Oct 2006 01:57:28 PM |
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Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On 01 Oct 2006 06:45:09 GMT, (Ray Fischer) in
alt.abortion with message-id
<451f63f5$0$34578$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> wrote:
Emmanual Kann <nicht@keinspam.invalid> wrote:
An Sun, 01 Oct 2006 04:46:56 +0000, Ray Fischer schreibt:
Save in the case of adoption, no one need ever pay child support for a
child they had "nothing to do with creating".
It happens all the time.
Just for argument sake, can you cite just one case?
How about the laws that say a man is legally obligated to support any
child his wife produces?
Such a law presumes he is the father of such children.
No, it does not. Such a law does not consider it relevant whether he
is the father.
How about laws which say that men are required to support children
even when they are raped by the woman?
The reference case is a legal oddity -
No, pro-liar, it is not. It is part of the LAW which you insist is
the only relevant standard.
--
Ray Fischer
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